I could be wrong but cars like Nissan and GMC have the Bose sound system. Ford has Sony and Blu ray. And other makers have a lot of bells and whistles. It seems as though Honda tries to milk you for everything they can.
Am I wrong to think that? Just wondering
Have done nothing to it except brakes, tires and oil changes for 5+ years. 90k miles.
Best car I've ever owned.
In really seems like Toyota and Honda flipped roles - which is even more pronounced when you compare Lexus to Acura. The Camry is actually a fleet car that has nimble handing and somewhat forward design. Lexus actually is rolling out a sports division with their F badge. Meanwhile, Honda is sleepwalking - which would be the only way to explain some of their recent designs.
The engineering remains mostly bulletproof, but everyone has caught up with them with reliability. If you want something more than an appliance to get from Point A to Point B, I don't see what brings you into a Honda dealership today.
^This.
In really seems like Toyota and Honda flipped roles - which is even more pronounced when you compare Lexus to Acura. The Camry is actually a fleet car that has nimble handing and somewhat forward design. Lexus actually is rolling out a sports division with their F badge. Meanwhile, Honda is sleepwalking - which would be the only way to explain some of their recent designs.
The engineering remains mostly bulletproof, but everyone has caught up with them with reliability. If you want something more than an appliance to get from Point A to Point B, I don't see what brings you into a Honda dealership today.
kind of what i was getting at...
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If you want something more than an appliance to get from Point A to Point B, I don't see what brings you into a Honda dealership today.
What else is a car for other than transportation? Safe, efficient, well built, reliable, low cost of ownership. What else is really important?
If that has to be explained then you won't get it.
I had an 84, 88, 92, and 95 Accords. Loved them all, but when I had to replace a CVT tranny in my Civic Hybrid for 4k, I lost my loyalty. The market is a lot closer today by all companies. Toyota and Honda have as many recalls as anyone. Just get something you like that has a decent rep.
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If you want something more than an appliance to get from Point A to Point B, I don't see what brings you into a Honda dealership today.
What else is a car for other than transportation? Safe, efficient, well built, reliable, low cost of ownership. What else is really important?
Well obviously there is a number of niche markets out there - from luxury, to sports, to utility, etc. Everyone sees something different with cars and while the "Point A/Point B" market is the major reason to own, there's a ton more buyers that would like more than a driving appliance.
The question was "Are Honda cars plain?" and I don't see how the answer is anything but emphatically "Yes", but there are a number of people that want plain/boring - it means they don't have to pay attention to something they likely don't really care about. Its not a statement that they're bad cars, just as someone who has owned a few cars and gets enjoyment from driving mindless on a windy road, they offer nothing to me.
I would never put forth they were bad cars, but miss some of their previous offerings that set them apart. Honda can very easily be what they are today and still have a few killer offerings in their lineup, but they just...don't.
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In comment 12297475 UAGiant said:
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If you want something more than an appliance to get from Point A to Point B, I don't see what brings you into a Honda dealership today.
What else is a car for other than transportation? Safe, efficient, well built, reliable, low cost of ownership. What else is really important?
Well obviously there is a number of niche markets out there - from luxury, to sports, to utility, etc. Everyone sees something different with cars and while the "Point A/Point B" market is the major reason to own, there's a ton more buyers that would like more than a driving appliance.
The question was "Are Honda cars plain?" and I don't see how the answer is anything but emphatically "Yes", but there are a number of people that want plain/boring - it means they don't have to pay attention to something they likely don't really care about. Its not a statement that they're bad cars, just as someone who has owned a few cars and gets enjoyment from driving mindless on a windy road, they offer nothing to me.
I would never put forth they were bad cars, but miss some of their previous offerings that set them apart. Honda can very easily be what they are today and still have a few killer offerings in their lineup, but they just...don't.
Well said.
We found the Accord to be stiff and boring. We liked Camry, MX6, even Sonata better.
But in class - nothing was close to the Nissan Altima. Feels like a much more expensive car than the others we test drove. Very solid, good road feel, plenty of power, still with enough luxury to make my wife happy, and enough room for all 5 family members.
BTW - Test drive an MX6 - it's a blast. For us though - TOO sporty, and it has a big hump on the floor, so it's really a 4 seater.
We found the Accord to be stiff and boring. We liked Camry, MX6, even Sonata better.
But in class - nothing was close to the Nissan Altima. Feels like a much more expensive car than the others we test drove. Very solid, good road feel, plenty of power, still with enough luxury to make my wife happy, and enough room for all 5 family members.
BTW - Test drive an MX6 - it's a blast. For us though - TOO sporty, and it has a big hump on the floor, so it's really a 4 seater.
Agreed, MX6 is a kick ass car. What a GREAT job Mazda did with the new 3 and 6 models. That said, I almost pulled the trigger... but I fell in love with the Passat over the MX6. It was just a better overall value for me. Still really love that MX6 though, I'd have been happy with either.
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In comment 12297475 UAGiant said:
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If you want something more than an appliance to get from Point A to Point B, I don't see what brings you into a Honda dealership today.
What else is a car for other than transportation? Safe, efficient, well built, reliable, low cost of ownership. What else is really important?
Well obviously there is a number of niche markets out there - from luxury, to sports, to utility, etc. Everyone sees something different with cars and while the "Point A/Point B" market is the major reason to own, there's a ton more buyers that would like more than a driving appliance.
The question was "Are Honda cars plain?" and I don't see how the answer is anything but emphatically "Yes", but there are a number of people that want plain/boring - it means they don't have to pay attention to something they likely don't really care about. Its not a statement that they're bad cars, just as someone who has owned a few cars and gets enjoyment from driving mindless on a windy road, they offer nothing to me.
I would never put forth they were bad cars, but miss some of their previous offerings that set them apart. Honda can very easily be what they are today and still have a few killer offerings in their lineup, but they just...don't.
I went over to Mazda. Again - you're not going to be wowed by the interior or the quality of the materials. But the drive is spectacular. The acceleration of the CX-9 was second only to the Porsche Cayenne of all the SUV's I tested, and a much more reasonable price.
245K later, he was right. It schlepped our then young family all over for ten years.. and nothing more.
Boy was that car a POS by the time it finally died... and that was only because I didn't change the timing belt in time, otherwise it may have gone another 245 K.
might test drive it first before
I went over to Mazda. Again - you're not going to be wowed by the interior or the quality of the materials. But the drive is spectacular. The acceleration of the CX-9 was second only to the Porsche Cayenne of all the SUV's I tested, and a much more reasonable price.
The Pilot had the best combination of seating capacity, towing capacity, gas mileage and price, so I bought it. Then again, I don't plan on racing it. Fun to drive never entered my mind when looking for an SUV
On the other hand, never had any issue with our Toyotas.
I had 2 Dodge Grand Caravans and hated them after 2 years each. The only reason I got a 2nd one was because the first was totaled in an accident and they gave us a new replacement. Once that van essentially died after 6 years, we ponied up and got an Odyssey.
Now, I'm 6 years into that car, it is paid off, haven't had any issues with it. Just passed 130K miles, and expect to keep it for another 6 years. Am I starting to hate it? A little, but that's because I just bought a new Mazda and the handling is so much tighter because it is a new car. But I will say from a bells/whistle standpoint that the Honda doesn't seem to be too spartan. At least not the Odyssey. I have seen Civic's and Accord's that are less than decked out, but would I rather have cool things in a Ford focus and have the car croak in 4 years or have basics and drive a car for 15?
I'll let you pick that answer and mock you endlessly if you go with the Ford.
Thinner sheet metal, frames aren't as rigid and the engine components are for the most part plastic.
Japanese econo boxes are ok for Japan, where the road surfaces are perfect, and people aren't driving carelessly and distracted.
I leased a Volvo S60 for $279 a month and couldn't have been happier.
Nice solid industrial strength build quality, torquey turbo charged engine, most comfortable seats and nicest styling of any car in it's segment.
Granted, it didn't feel as connected to the road my A4, but the S60 is the best value going and only slightly more expensive than the popular but boring offerings from Toyota, Nissan and Honda.
I don't understand why the resale value on the Subaru's are so high either.
That thing would get 20mpg and it was a base model 4 cylinder.
The seats and handling were atrocious, the transmission was a complete joke, and the wind noise in the cabin after 70mph was deafening.
Everyone I know who has one loves it - they will say that it isn't the best ride they've ever had, but from a reliability and safety aspect, nothing but perfect marks.
but now im looking at the pilot for the 2nd row bucket seats and its spacious but the 2016 version is the one i would want. But to get the good ones with the stuff i know will last me, it would be the elite or the touring.
Simply put, I LOVED everything about that car. I plan to then put more money into it to upgrade the technology, GPS stereo, etc.
Every day I miss that car more and more.
but now im looking at the pilot for the 2nd row bucket seats and its spacious but the 2016 version is the one i would want. But to get the good ones with the stuff i know will last me, it would be the elite or the touring.
It was mentioned earlier, but go check out the Mazda CX-9. Most publications have it ranked #1 in that segment, with the Highlander, Pilot and Americans lagging behind.
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drives real nice and the tech is cool. I dont drive alot anyways so on average, 3 years we have 19k miles on it
but now im looking at the pilot for the 2nd row bucket seats and its spacious but the 2016 version is the one i would want. But to get the good ones with the stuff i know will last me, it would be the elite or the touring.
It was mentioned earlier, but go check out the Mazda CX-9. Most publications have it ranked #1 in that segment, with the Highlander, Pilot and Americans lagging behind.
I have a 2014 Highlander. We started to consider Mazda, but we have a lawyer friend who owned one who assured us there was no bigger mistake to make.....
I do need more towing capacity, so I'm going to look at the Chevy Tahoe, Dodge Durango (with V8 Hemi) and the Ford Expedition this weekend. I like the Tahoe, but it's too damn expensive for what it is. The Durango seems to get really high marks, but I feel I know too many people who have been burnt by Dodge to trust their reliability.
Or, ask the people who suffered through the engine sludge issues that were causing premature engine death to a lot of Camrys and Lexus RX's. The worst part of all that - every manufacturer is going to have flaws, but Toyota tried really hard to cover the whole damn thing up, and in the process forced a lot of people to pay for repairs that were the result of design flaws.
Every manufacturer is going to have a lemon or two - even Honda and Toyota. Honda is riding a narrative that existed 20 years ago, but has all but evaporated today. VWs aren't catching fire, Fords aren't dying at 40K miles, Chevy...well, I still wouldn't buy a Chevy (that isn't named "Corvette"). But the point remains, there are a lot of really cool cars out there in various price ranges, that do a lot of things extremely well, are dependable and do not wear the "H" badge.
And to even take a step back, this is anti-Honda day - but I think their advertising and reputation is a bit removed from reality. Change your oil, get regular service and take care of your car and it'll spin for as long as you want.
Mazda was just ranked the second best brand in the automotive industry.
Their customer satisfaction, reliability and longevity are all consistently above average.
But, I do find it odd a salesperson would say something like that, unless he was not the Honda salesperson, but a rival.
As for all the bells and whistles, new cars just come with so much now, I find most of the options a complete ripoff. I also find some of the luxury things stupid. For example, all these options to connect to devices to text, etc. You are not supposed to do that while driving, so it is the opposite of a benefit, in my opinion. I do like the bluetooth connection to my phone with the steering wheel controls, just to answer a call. But, to connect to Facebook and the like? That is absurd to me.
I bought the Fords at the time because it was what I could afford and I don't regret it, but when I bought an Acura TL and Ford Explorer the same exact year and the Acura ran for 215,000 miles with only routine maintenance ans still ran 13 years after I bought it and looked modern enough vs the Explorer that legitimately needed to be replaced at around 105,000 and when you google what's wrong with the Explorer and can read that consumer after consumer has the same problems then no, I don't agree all cars are reliable.
You get what you pay for in most cases, and it's not just luxury (like in the case of Honda, where Acura or Lexus (with Toyota) some of what you pay for is in fact luxury). I love America (not to sound corny) and would do just about anything I can to buy American, but I would buy a Honda over a Ford 100 times out of 100 because I see no reason to buy American when they put out crap. I do allow for the potential some quality has improved since my last Ford purchase, which I swore would be my last, in 2001.
unless I wanted a Mustang (or as jcn says wants towing capacity - the American large SUV's still own towing capacity over most foreign rivals)
I bought the Fords at the time because it was what I could afford and I don't regret it, but when I bought an Acura TL and Ford Explorer the same exact year and the Acura ran for 215,000 miles with only routine maintenance ans still ran 13 years after I bought it and looked modern enough vs the Explorer that legitimately needed to be replaced at around 105,000 and when you google what's wrong with the Explorer and can read that consumer after consumer has the same problems then no, I don't agree all cars are reliable.
You get what you pay for in most cases, and it's not just luxury (like in the case of Honda, where Acura or Lexus (with Toyota) some of what you pay for is in fact luxury). I love America (not to sound corny) and would do just about anything I can to buy American, but I would buy a Honda over a Ford 100 times out of 100 because I see no reason to buy American when they put out crap. I do allow for the potential some quality has improved since my last Ford purchase, which I swore would be my last, in 2001.
unless I wanted a Mustang (or as jcn says wants towing capacity - the American large SUV's still own towing capacity over most foreign rivals)
Not to downplay what you wrote, but today's Ford is not 2001's Ford. I have two German cars in my garage currently and would likely opt for foreign over American, as well - but Ford's been improving leaps and bounds since ~2008 (as shown by industry reliability studies, etc.). There were a ton of issues prior to that, but my comment was about today's market vs. late 90s/early 00s - when I would have never stepped foot on a Ford dealership except to look at a Mustang and wonder why Ford was so stupid to put a solid live rear axle in a car like that vs. IRS.
The narrative of thinking what was true 1-2 decades ago is true today is my point, though - things have changed significantly. You can buy a Hyundai without worrying about having a plastic transmission dump out at 30k (in fact, they're usually towards the top of most reliability ratings and lowest cost of ownership), VW/Audi stopped manufacturing in Mexico and now have impeccable wiring/electronics and no long double as a camp fire on the highway, etc. Perceptions remain, but reality is they're dramatically different/improved vehicles.
Cars are significant investments, so people get burnt on them once and they don't forget - but the playing field is extremely level if you look at Consumer Reports, etc - there are no brands that just transcend everything else (unless you're looking at specific things, like a Tesla, etc.).
Don't overlook a comfortable car with lots of gadgets and a great sound system. If you spend a lot of time in your car as I do, they will be worth the price.
I have a Ford Focus and love it. My husband is leasing the Escape and probably in 3 years I'll get it. I love the automatic hatch!!!