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Eli Manning worst QB in NFL under pressure

Headhunter : 5/22/2015 1:54 pm
according to PFF, actually he is the worst 2 years running. When not pressured according to PFF he is the 10th best QB
Link - ( New Window )
under pressure....  
Rocky369 : 5/22/2015 1:57 pm : link


I'll take it.
I now all of a sudden never care about PFF stats.  
GiantFilthy : 5/22/2015 1:58 pm : link


-BBI
cue  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/22/2015 1:58 pm : link
the eli defenders and PFF bashers.
cue  
montanagiant : 5/22/2015 2:01 pm : link
The Eli bashers and PFF fanboys
I'm not surprised by this at all  
Josh in the City : 5/22/2015 2:02 pm : link
Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
I don't know about that  
Rocky369 : 5/22/2015 2:02 pm : link
seems a good bit here seem to say that given time, Eli can be great. Of course when pressured, I think most here know he chucks and ducks.
montana  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/22/2015 2:05 pm : link
fortunately for me i'm neither. Able to objectively take in all opinions and form my own.
One question with the list....  
kinard : 5/22/2015 2:06 pm : link
How is "pressure" defined? How close must a defender be to QB before its defined as a presuure situation?
Any Giants fan who is not an Eli defender  
Scuzzlebutt : 5/22/2015 2:06 pm : link
After 10+ years as our QB and two superbowls is nothing less than a moron... a moron who will claim to have "always been a big fan" many years from now when they realize how important he really was to this franchise.

I remember Simms being booed in Giants stadium, but now everyone you meet always loved him back then.
That may be true  
Johnny5 : 5/22/2015 2:08 pm : link
But that is a stat that can be argued pretty easily IMV. I mean look at both Super Bowl runs, especially in 2011 vs. SF. That is easily one of the toughest QB performances I have ever seen.

When QBs have sucky lines, they get pressured a lot. And I'm sure that takes it's toll in a season. Plus Gilbride's system was a slow developing system that caused a lot of miscommunication with QB and WR. That is compounded heavily by poor blocking up front.
RE: montana  
montanagiant : 5/22/2015 2:08 pm : link
In comment 12297829 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
fortunately for me i'm neither. Able to objectively take in all opinions and form my own.

But not above generalizing and throwing a label out there with no basis?
eli is not as mobile in the pocket as he used to be  
nms24 : 5/22/2015 2:09 pm : link
I noticed this as well last year. It does seem like the area where Eli has regressed the most in his movement in the pocket. He does not have the escape skills he had in his youth. While he never had elite movement skills, I think he moved around the pocket better in the past.

Also, Eli is just terrible when throwing off one foot, and he continues to make those throws.

he was under pressure a lot the last two years  
NoPeanutz : 5/22/2015 2:09 pm : link
and the Giants were terrible.
That being said, he had the best year of his career last year.
I don't know....  
Strip-Sack : 5/22/2015 2:10 pm : link
seems like he handled the pressure pretty well in the San Fran NFC title game...
no peanutz  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/22/2015 2:12 pm : link
No he didn't. 2011 was by far the best year of his career. He played at an elite level that entire season.
I could care less.  
crick n NC : 5/22/2015 2:16 pm : link
Eli played a major part in two titles, one being possibly the best win in sports history. stats likes this read like the teacher from Charlie Brown
Basically since 2011  
Dave M : 5/22/2015 2:18 pm : link
Eli was beaten down and punished due to a poor O line and a scheme that made him sit back in the pocket longer than any other QB. That tends to have lasting effects on QB's so it's not surprising that he may struggle under pressure at times. Eli's toughness is definitely taken for granted in these kinds of stats. You saw last season that he still has it and hopefully this line is fixed.
PFF was certainly singing a different tune after the 2011 season  
Mayhap : 5/22/2015 2:21 pm : link
Maybe Eli got old fast, or got gun shy after that train wreck of an offense in 2013. Or maybe it's that the pressure is now coming through the interior of the line instead of from the edges, eliminating his ability to step up into the pocket. He's never had the wheels to escape to the outside.
Link - ( New Window )
oh goodie  
dep026 : 5/22/2015 2:27 pm : link
more calculated stats that are judged differently from person to person.
Dave M's got a point  
Greg from LI : 5/22/2015 2:29 pm : link
Eli's more jittery in the pocket than he was in 2011 because he's had several years of getting pounded now. That tends to make its mark on a QB, as Kurt Warner or even David Carr can tell you.
Well I think he was the best in 2011 via PFF....  
mattlawson : 5/22/2015 2:33 pm : link
QB coach, footwork, drills - what drastically changed besides the OL stability?
RE: PFF was certainly singing a different tune after the 2011 season  
mattlawson : 5/22/2015 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12297872 Mayhap said:
Quote:
Maybe Eli got old fast, or got gun shy after that train wreck of an offense in 2013. Or maybe it's that the pressure is now coming through the interior of the line instead of from the edges, eliminating his ability to step up into the pocket. He's never had the wheels to escape to the outside. Link - ( New Window )



exactly - so what changed?
Physically being chased, sure...  
bradshaw44 : 5/22/2015 2:34 pm : link
High pressure situations, not a chance.
Something about that stat doesn't pass the eyeball test.  
81_Great_Dane : 5/22/2015 2:40 pm : link
Guess I need to understand how they define "under pressure."

I think he's had less opportunity to slide in the pocket since for the last few years, as once-reliable guys aged into turnstiles, a lot of rushers have been on top of him very quickly.
RE: under pressure....  
chris r : 5/22/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12297813 Rocky369 said:
Quote:


I'll take it.


That's a long time ago.

Recently Eli has had a very hard time escaping any pressure whatsoever. The eye test and numbers back that up.
..  
Mike fr Warwick : 5/22/2015 2:45 pm : link
LMAO
Also fails to mention context  
David in LA : 5/22/2015 2:55 pm : link
Eli's probably faced more 2nd and long and 3rd and long because our ground game was dog shit 2 years ago, and was dog shit once Jennings went down.
There is this stat  
Chris684 : 5/22/2015 2:56 pm : link
And then there is his performance in the 2011 NFC title game. That directly lead to a SB title (one of two) that can never be taken away.
from the valley of the stupid, HO HO HO!  
Victor in CT : 5/22/2015 2:59 pm : link
Peee EF EF.

( the tune of the Green Giant commercial)
I can't get the page to load for me, must be blocked at work but...  
BeerFridge : 5/22/2015 3:00 pm : link
.. I really wonder how they isolate QB play statistically WRT to the performance of the line and the receivers?
RE: I now all of a sudden never care about PFF stats.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/22/2015 3:18 pm : link
In comment 12297817 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


-BBI


Not all of a sudden
hey when pff  
dep026 : 5/22/2015 3:20 pm : link
Says that Bridgewater was better than eli last year, how can you refute?
is it known that the Giants are subscribers to PFF?  
chris r : 5/22/2015 3:26 pm : link
Or is that another advanced football stats site?

but what do they know amirite?
Rediculouse - he was under pressure constantly  
PatersonPlank : 5/22/2015 3:28 pm : link
As mentioned above, Bridgewater rated better than Eli is all you need to read. These publications fall all over themselves trying to diss Eli because he's in the NY market.
Rocky  
rocco8112 : 5/22/2015 3:29 pm : link
wrapped this thread up with the first response.

PFF is a waste of time anyway.
Many of you put stock in that stuff?
Ironically...  
Britt in VA : 5/22/2015 3:30 pm : link
The very next day PFF did QB's in Focus: Against the Blitz where Eli was ranked the 8th best overall.

So he's the worst against pressure, but the 8th best agaisnt the blitz.

Okay...

QB's in Focus: Against the Blitz 5/21/15 - ( New Window )
I don't think PFF has an agenda  
Headhunter : 5/22/2015 3:30 pm : link
a lot of there stuff is surprising but they have no axe to grind.
Excuse me, 7th best against the blitz.  
Britt in VA : 5/22/2015 3:31 pm : link
.
their stuff  
Headhunter : 5/22/2015 3:32 pm : link
.
So, knowing that....  
Britt in VA : 5/22/2015 3:40 pm : link
Why do you think he's the absolute worst in the league against "pressure", but the 7th best in the league against the "blitz"?

Let's start here: What's the difference between "pressure" and a "blitz"?

A blitz can be identified pre snap, while pressure is due to a random breakdown in protection, and you never know where it's coming from. Our line had quite a few of those last year. Including several jail breaks where Eli ate it, fumbled it, or chucked it.

It's not as simple as saying that Eli is poor against pressure, because actually, when facing a blitz, he's quite great.
RE: I'm not surprised by this at all  
speedywheels : 5/22/2015 3:43 pm : link
In comment 12297823 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.


I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.

But carry on...
Ok I bit  
rocco8112 : 5/22/2015 3:49 pm : link
and read some of the article. Frankly I tuned out after this in the intro.

"... As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result..."


So, let me get this straight, the result of the play is meaningless? Might be fun to read this stuff but I doubt it has any relevance.
RE: Ok I bit  
Britt in VA : 5/22/2015 3:51 pm : link
In comment 12297991 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
and read some of the article. Frankly I tuned out after this in the intro.

"... As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result..."


Right. So they say a dropped catch by a reciever counts as a positive throw, and a dropped catch by a linebacker counts negatively. What happens when a QB throws the ball away?

So, let me get this straight, the result of the play is meaningless? Might be fun to read this stuff but I doubt it has any relevance.
Don't know how this got caught up in your quote...  
Britt in VA : 5/22/2015 3:52 pm : link
but what I said was:

Right. So they say a dropped catch by a reciever counts as a positive throw, and a dropped catch by a linebacker counts negatively. What happens when a QB throws the ball away?
He does often look terrible  
giantgiantfan : 5/22/2015 3:59 pm : link
under pressure, but in some of the biggest situations you can be in he's held in there in delivered the perfect pass. Not just the Tyree catch, but the Plax TD in the same superbowl and vs SF in the NFC Championship game.
Most QB's are not strong when the OL doesnt block  
djstat : 5/22/2015 4:02 pm : link
Most QB's look like hall of famers when the OL is amazing...see Super Bowl 26 MVP Mark Rypein
He's slow-footed, and  
CT Charlie : 5/22/2015 4:44 pm : link
he's a gambler. So he'll either take a risk to try for a completion or he'll just go fetal.

No surprise that the stats are bad.
One thing about Eli...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/22/2015 5:02 pm : link
he's smart and he always wants to win. He knows that if his offense is struggling, or if he's behind and the clock is running out, or if his defense is struggling to keep a lead, that he has to take more chances to make plays. In those situations his aversion to risk declines, which is smart football.

Seeing as how our defense was terrible last year and spent much of the 2013 season being bad (really terrible until the Chicago game, then it started to improve), at which point the offense was basically up to Eli, it's not really a surprise that Eli has played the last two years taking a lot more risks than other quarterbacks. And when you take risks you make more mistakes.

Eli doesn't worry about Passer Rating or other QB statistics. He wants to win.
The other thing to consider...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/22/2015 5:05 pm : link
is the system.

Gilbride's system really works when the QB and the WR are on the same page.

When under pressure it is very difficult for the QB and the WR to have time to make the same reads, and as a result, worse outcomes.

In the new system this will improve, but one should not be surprised that it might take a year or two.
RE: RE: I'm not surprised by this at all  
Josh in the City : 5/22/2015 5:51 pm : link
In comment 12297988 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 12297823 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.



I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.

But carry on...


The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not surprised by this at all  
Devon : 5/22/2015 6:37 pm : link
In comment 12298134 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 12297988 speedywheels said:


Quote:


In comment 12297823 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.



I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.

But carry on...



The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.


He maybe referenced one game secondarily, but he clearly brought up a full season first. Eli was an absolute monster under pressure for all of 2011 (and he had to be because the OL was shit that season).

The Giants continuing to run out inconsistent to shit lines for a few years likely took a toll and screwed up his clock a bit (though I do think he showed signs of getting it back last year -- PFF's blitz numbers may suggest that, even if their ones in this case don't), but you should just be admitting you were wrong and backing off on this.
Probably a difference between game pressure  
mrvax : 5/22/2015 8:00 pm : link
and play pressure.

Eli is THE MAN during a very big game. Moreso than his brother, IMO. However, when under duress in a play breaking down due to lousy protection, Eli tends to "force" a play. I'd expect his stats to reflect that.

The fact that PFF has him labeled so bad for 2013 and 2014 just so happens to be the same years of the worst Olines the Giants have had in a long time.
Key is where the pressure is coming from  
GMenLTS : 5/22/2015 9:01 pm : link
the past two years, it's been straight up the middle of the pocket. i.e. no where to step up to throw.

2011 the pressure was more evenly distributed everywhere, literally.

There will be no issues if we can manage to hold the POA in the middle. Unfortunately that gets a fucking whole lot more uncertain thanks to the beatty injury.
Good qbs  
djm : 5/22/2015 11:28 pm : link
Make it appear that they aren't under that much pressure. Eli is as good as any at sliding around in the pocket. The only season he was shaky was 2013 when all hell broke loose.

So when Eli isn't brilliantly sliding or floating in the pocket and buying an extra second he's not very good. Same could be said for every qb going. Some are just better than others. This is one of those stats that would have mark twain rolling over in his grave. some stats are useful but this is one of the worst.
Exactly what you want to read when your  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/22/2015 11:32 pm : link
starting LT is going to be out for awhile.
And if anyone wants to challenge whether Eli is good at avoiding sacks  
djm : 5/22/2015 11:32 pm : link
I'll give u the clearest and easiest one to quantify or process-- times sacked. Since 04 Eli has been sacked less than most. Not one of Eli's olinemen will make the hall of fame either so don't tell me Eli was blessed with great olines throughout.

RE: RE: RE: I'm not surprised by this at all  
speedywheels : 5/22/2015 11:34 pm : link
In comment 12298134 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 12297988 speedywheels said:


Quote:


In comment 12297823 Josh in the City said:


Quote:



The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.


I guess you missed the part where I referenced the ENTIRE 2011 SEASON.

Reading comprehension can be your friend!
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