Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
After 10+ years as our QB and two superbowls is nothing less than a moron... a moron who will claim to have "always been a big fan" many years from now when they realize how important he really was to this franchise.
I remember Simms being booed in Giants stadium, but now everyone you meet always loved him back then.
But that is a stat that can be argued pretty easily IMV. I mean look at both Super Bowl runs, especially in 2011 vs. SF. That is easily one of the toughest QB performances I have ever seen.
When QBs have sucky lines, they get pressured a lot. And I'm sure that takes it's toll in a season. Plus Gilbride's system was a slow developing system that caused a lot of miscommunication with QB and WR. That is compounded heavily by poor blocking up front.
I noticed this as well last year. It does seem like the area where Eli has regressed the most in his movement in the pocket. He does not have the escape skills he had in his youth. While he never had elite movement skills, I think he moved around the pocket better in the past.
Also, Eli is just terrible when throwing off one foot, and he continues to make those throws.
Eli was beaten down and punished due to a poor O line and a scheme that made him sit back in the pocket longer than any other QB. That tends to have lasting effects on QB's so it's not surprising that he may struggle under pressure at times. Eli's toughness is definitely taken for granted in these kinds of stats. You saw last season that he still has it and hopefully this line is fixed.
PFF was certainly singing a different tune after the 2011 season Â
Maybe Eli got old fast, or got gun shy after that train wreck of an offense in 2013. Or maybe it's that the pressure is now coming through the interior of the line instead of from the edges, eliminating his ability to step up into the pocket. He's never had the wheels to escape to the outside. Link - ( New Window )
Eli's more jittery in the pocket than he was in 2011 because he's had several years of getting pounded now. That tends to make its mark on a QB, as Kurt Warner or even David Carr can tell you.
Well I think he was the best in 2011 via PFF.... Â
Maybe Eli got old fast, or got gun shy after that train wreck of an offense in 2013. Or maybe it's that the pressure is now coming through the interior of the line instead of from the edges, eliminating his ability to step up into the pocket. He's never had the wheels to escape to the outside. Link - ( New Window )
Guess I need to understand how they define "under pressure."
I think he's had less opportunity to slide in the pocket since for the last few years, as once-reliable guys aged into turnstiles, a lot of rushers have been on top of him very quickly.
As mentioned above, Bridgewater rated better than Eli is all you need to read. These publications fall all over themselves trying to diss Eli because he's in the NY market.
Why do you think he's the absolute worst in the league against "pressure", but the 7th best in the league against the "blitz"?
Let's start here: What's the difference between "pressure" and a "blitz"?
A blitz can be identified pre snap, while pressure is due to a random breakdown in protection, and you never know where it's coming from. Our line had quite a few of those last year. Including several jail breaks where Eli ate it, fumbled it, or chucked it.
It's not as simple as saying that Eli is poor against pressure, because actually, when facing a blitz, he's quite great.
Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.
and read some of the article. Frankly I tuned out after this in the intro.
"... As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result..."
So, let me get this straight, the result of the play is meaningless? Might be fun to read this stuff but I doubt it has any relevance.
and read some of the article. Frankly I tuned out after this in the intro.
"... As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result..."
Right. So they say a dropped catch by a reciever counts as a positive throw, and a dropped catch by a linebacker counts negatively. What happens when a QB throws the ball away?
So, let me get this straight, the result of the play is meaningless? Might be fun to read this stuff but I doubt it has any relevance.
Don't know how this got caught up in your quote... Â
Right. So they say a dropped catch by a reciever counts as a positive throw, and a dropped catch by a linebacker counts negatively. What happens when a QB throws the ball away?
under pressure, but in some of the biggest situations you can be in he's held in there in delivered the perfect pass. Not just the Tyree catch, but the Plax TD in the same superbowl and vs SF in the NFC Championship game.
Most QB's are not strong when the OL doesnt block Â
he's smart and he always wants to win. He knows that if his offense is struggling, or if he's behind and the clock is running out, or if his defense is struggling to keep a lead, that he has to take more chances to make plays. In those situations his aversion to risk declines, which is smart football.
Seeing as how our defense was terrible last year and spent much of the 2013 season being bad (really terrible until the Chicago game, then it started to improve), at which point the offense was basically up to Eli, it's not really a surprise that Eli has played the last two years taking a lot more risks than other quarterbacks. And when you take risks you make more mistakes.
Eli doesn't worry about Passer Rating or other QB statistics. He wants to win.
Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.
But carry on...
The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.
But carry on...
The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
He maybe referenced one game secondarily, but he clearly brought up a full season first. Eli was an absolute monster under pressure for all of 2011 (and he had to be because the OL was shit that season).
The Giants continuing to run out inconsistent to shit lines for a few years likely took a toll and screwed up his clock a bit (though I do think he showed signs of getting it back last year -- PFF's blitz numbers may suggest that, even if their ones in this case don't), but you should just be admitting you were wrong and backing off on this.
Eli is THE MAN during a very big game. Moreso than his brother, IMO. However, when under duress in a play breaking down due to lousy protection, Eli tends to "force" a play. I'd expect his stats to reflect that.
The fact that PFF has him labeled so bad for 2013 and 2014 just so happens to be the same years of the worst Olines the Giants have had in a long time.
the past two years, it's been straight up the middle of the pocket. i.e. no where to step up to throw.
2011 the pressure was more evenly distributed everywhere, literally.
There will be no issues if we can manage to hold the POA in the middle. Unfortunately that gets a fucking whole lot more uncertain thanks to the beatty injury.
Make it appear that they aren't under that much pressure. Eli is as good as any at sliding around in the pocket. The only season he was shaky was 2013 when all hell broke loose.
So when Eli isn't brilliantly sliding or floating in the pocket and buying an extra second he's not very good. Same could be said for every qb going. Some are just better than others. This is one of those stats that would have mark twain rolling over in his grave. some stats are useful but this is one of the worst.
I'll give u the clearest and easiest one to quantify or process-- times sacked. Since 04 Eli has been sacked less than most. Not one of Eli's olinemen will make the hall of fame either so don't tell me Eli was blessed with great olines throughout.
The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
I guess you missed the part where I referenced the ENTIRE 2011 SEASON.
I'll take it.
-BBI
I remember Simms being booed in Giants stadium, but now everyone you meet always loved him back then.
When QBs have sucky lines, they get pressured a lot. And I'm sure that takes it's toll in a season. Plus Gilbride's system was a slow developing system that caused a lot of miscommunication with QB and WR. That is compounded heavily by poor blocking up front.
But not above generalizing and throwing a label out there with no basis?
Also, Eli is just terrible when throwing off one foot, and he continues to make those throws.
That being said, he had the best year of his career last year.
Link - ( New Window )
exactly - so what changed?
I think he's had less opportunity to slide in the pocket since for the last few years, as once-reliable guys aged into turnstiles, a lot of rushers have been on top of him very quickly.
I'll take it.
That's a long time ago.
Recently Eli has had a very hard time escaping any pressure whatsoever. The eye test and numbers back that up.
( the tune of the Green Giant commercial)
-BBI
Not all of a sudden
but what do they know amirite?
PFF is a waste of time anyway.
Many of you put stock in that stuff?
So he's the worst against pressure, but the 8th best agaisnt the blitz.
Okay...
QB's in Focus: Against the Blitz 5/21/15 - ( New Window )
Let's start here: What's the difference between "pressure" and a "blitz"?
A blitz can be identified pre snap, while pressure is due to a random breakdown in protection, and you never know where it's coming from. Our line had quite a few of those last year. Including several jail breaks where Eli ate it, fumbled it, or chucked it.
It's not as simple as saying that Eli is poor against pressure, because actually, when facing a blitz, he's quite great.
I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.
But carry on...
"... As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result..."
So, let me get this straight, the result of the play is meaningless? Might be fun to read this stuff but I doubt it has any relevance.
"... As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result..."
Right. So they say a dropped catch by a reciever counts as a positive throw, and a dropped catch by a linebacker counts negatively. What happens when a QB throws the ball away?
So, let me get this straight, the result of the play is meaningless? Might be fun to read this stuff but I doubt it has any relevance.
Right. So they say a dropped catch by a reciever counts as a positive throw, and a dropped catch by a linebacker counts negatively. What happens when a QB throws the ball away?
No surprise that the stats are bad.
Seeing as how our defense was terrible last year and spent much of the 2013 season being bad (really terrible until the Chicago game, then it started to improve), at which point the offense was basically up to Eli, it's not really a surprise that Eli has played the last two years taking a lot more risks than other quarterbacks. And when you take risks you make more mistakes.
Eli doesn't worry about Passer Rating or other QB statistics. He wants to win.
Gilbride's system really works when the QB and the WR are on the same page.
When under pressure it is very difficult for the QB and the WR to have time to make the same reads, and as a result, worse outcomes.
In the new system this will improve, but one should not be surprised that it might take a year or two.
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Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.
But carry on...
The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
Quote:
In comment 12297823 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
Eli has always been dreadful when our oline has sucked. He's been VERY good when our oline is average or better. One play in a Super Bowl 8 years ago doesn't change the fact that Eli isn't a good player when under pressure. Sorry guys.
I guess you missed the 2011 season. Especially the playoff game in SF.
But carry on...
The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
He maybe referenced one game secondarily, but he clearly brought up a full season first. Eli was an absolute monster under pressure for all of 2011 (and he had to be because the OL was shit that season).
The Giants continuing to run out inconsistent to shit lines for a few years likely took a toll and screwed up his clock a bit (though I do think he showed signs of getting it back last year -- PFF's blitz numbers may suggest that, even if their ones in this case don't), but you should just be admitting you were wrong and backing off on this.
Eli is THE MAN during a very big game. Moreso than his brother, IMO. However, when under duress in a play breaking down due to lousy protection, Eli tends to "force" a play. I'd expect his stats to reflect that.
The fact that PFF has him labeled so bad for 2013 and 2014 just so happens to be the same years of the worst Olines the Giants have had in a long time.
2011 the pressure was more evenly distributed everywhere, literally.
There will be no issues if we can manage to hold the POA in the middle. Unfortunately that gets a fucking whole lot more uncertain thanks to the beatty injury.
So when Eli isn't brilliantly sliding or floating in the pocket and buying an extra second he's not very good. Same could be said for every qb going. Some are just better than others. This is one of those stats that would have mark twain rolling over in his grave. some stats are useful but this is one of the worst.
Quote:
In comment 12297823 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
The SF game, in my opinion, was the greatest game of Eli's career given the circumstances. But again, that single game doesn't define who he is as a QB. I'm talking about the majority of his career, not single plays and/or games that are clearly outliers.
I guess you missed the part where I referenced the ENTIRE 2011 SEASON.
Reading comprehension can be your friend!