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Can Brett Jones beat out John Jerry?

j_rud : 5/22/2015 8:36 pm
I talked a bit about Jones in a post on gidies OL thread and am curious to see what the board thinks about his chances to win a starting spot. This would be a moot point if not for the Beatty injury, he wouldn't have a shot to unseat Pugh or Schwartz. But with the shake up the Beatty injury brings this kid now has a golden opportunity to step up.

After starting 16 games last season Jerry appears to be the OL most likely to be called on. But his play last year was just a few notches better than Walton and was at times downright atrocious. He's not particularly light on his feet and he doesn't generate the push you would expect from a man of his size. He's certainly not in the long term plans and appears to be imminently replaceable. There aren't any obvious choices though. Which brings us to Jones.

When he was signed I scrambled to find some information on him and was pleasantly surprised by what I found. He was the Canadian equivalent of an Academic All American and was an All Conference selection in college. A projected first round pick, he bluntly told teams going to medical school was his first choice (he did not get in). That caused him to slip to the second round with many teams questioning his dedication. His play however quickly dispelled those notions.

At 23 he's spent just two seasons in the CFL. But he made the most of that time, earning Rookie of the Year honors in 2013 and being named the CFLs Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman in his sophomore season. He's said since he entered the CFL his dream has been to play in the NFL. Scouting reports praise his footwork, movement, and physicality, saying he's "got natural knee bend, good feet, sits really well in his stance, punches well, he's aggressive". Another report says he "plays through the whistle and finishes plays". Now he obviously has quite a transition ahead of him. But with the biggest adjustment to the American game being the elimination of the one yard cushion the OL is given, his skill set would seem to translate well and help him make that transition.

While it might seem like a long shot, this kid has everything you want in a G. He's smart, moves well, has good footwork and technique, plays with some tenacity, and is hungry for an opportunity. It also bears noting that we're not talking about him unseating a proven starter, we're talking about him replacing a very average player, and that's generous assessment of Jerry.

IMO if any of the young guys have a shot to beat out Jerry, and that would be one helluva boon for the Giants, I think it's Jones. Even of he isn't a long term answer, you have to wonder if a kid with his skill set and accolades, the best OL in Candian football, can beat out a middling veteran like Jerry. I really hope he can, because I hate the idea of Jerry starting another 16 games for this team.

What say you BBI?
I think  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2015 8:41 pm : link
he's too short to play guard in the NFL in 2015.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2015 8:45 pm : link
my hope for Brett Jones is simply to kick Dallas Reynolds off the roster. He could probably play guard if need be, but are there any 6'1'' guards in the NFL?
young, healthy, hungry  
idiotsavant : 5/22/2015 8:46 pm : link
not old fat and gimpy. yes, he could beat him out. shorty is fine.
The question I have is whether given Richburg's gain in strength  
yatqb : 5/22/2015 8:49 pm : link
he might be able to man LG again if Jones shows he is an NFL-caliber starting C. It's not ideal, but it might be better than Jerry at RG again.
yatqb  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2015 8:50 pm : link
possible, but they have to think about the future too. I think we want to get Richburg to center as fast as possible.

If you ask me, they wasted a year on Walton in 2014.
After watching...  
Ed A. : 5/22/2015 8:52 pm : link
the tape on this kid, I think he will beat Jerry out. He appeared to dominate the CFL.
conversely  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/22/2015 8:52 pm : link
the Giants had the 2-6 picks in the CFL draft in for tryouts before they were drafted -- and they didn't make the cut

Jones is goin got have to overcome a lot of obstacles to make the 53 man cut -- Eric eluded to his size -- but he's been dominant against what amounts to a bunch of non-NFL players -- so it doesn't necessarily follow that he can make it in the NFL --

of course we can always hope he does -- but this is a long shot
I can't imagine anyone on BBI has any idea what Jones ...  
Boy Cord : 5/22/2015 8:54 pm : link
... can bring to the table, other than projecting his physical attributes.
RE: conversely  
Ed A. : 5/22/2015 8:59 pm : link
In comment 12298324 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants had the 2-6 picks in the CFL draft in for tryouts before they were drafted -- and they didn't make the cut

Jones is goin got have to overcome a lot of obstacles to make the 53 man cut -- Eric eluded to his size -- but he's been dominant against what amounts to a bunch of non-NFL players -- so it doesn't necessarily follow that he can make it in the NFL --

of course we can always hope he does -- but this is a long shot


Giants did not sign the 2 - 6 picks, they did sign Jones. I imagine Hufnagel had a lot to do with that.
Some  
Toth029 : 5/22/2015 8:59 pm : link
Notable shorter (6'1"), starting OG's in the league

A.Q. Shipley, Cardinals
Doug Legursky, Bills
Chance Warmack, Titans (he's listed 6'2", former #10 ovr pick)
Andy Levitre, Titans (also 6'2")

Warmack and Levitre are solid pros. Other two are mostly backup material. I hope Jones plays well and at least makes it as a reliable backup. I'd hate to have to rely on the likes of Boothe, Reynolds, etc.
RE: ...  
AcidTest : 5/22/2015 9:02 pm : link
In comment 12298303 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
my hope for Brett Jones is simply to kick Dallas Reynolds off the roster. He could probably play guard if need be, but are there any 6'1'' guards in the NFL?


^This.
His size may hinder him a bit, it's a fair point  
j_rud : 5/22/2015 9:51 pm : link
but really, how much does an inch matter? It's not like there aren't any 6'2" Gs in the league. If his skill set translates and he adjusts to the American game I can't see that inch being the thing that breaks it for him. Combined with his solid footwork and technique it may help him leverage some of the taller DL in the league. There are a number of other things that can, the most likely being adjusting to the American game. Like I said, with all the positives he has going for him I can't see that inch being the thing that stops him.
Do you think Seuie was really 6'3"?  
yatqb : 5/22/2015 9:54 pm : link
He seemed shorter than that.
Eric  
Micko : 5/22/2015 10:17 pm : link
Will he be tall enough in 2016?
Maybe.  
Red Dog : 5/22/2015 10:44 pm : link
I give Jones a very good chance of making the roster, as all he has to do is beat out Phily reject Dallas Reynolds for the back up Center job.

And I would give him a shot at beating out Miami reject John Jerry for the now available starting spot at Guard. He seems to have the motivation for excellence that Jerry apparently lacks, at least according to people in Miami. And Jerry didn't exactly play well last year, either. Not saying it will happen, but somebody could beat out Jerry, and Jones is one of the guys with a real shot to do it.

Incidentally, one of those other Canadians that the GIANTS had in for a try-out, DT Daryl Waud, has signed with the Washington Redskins despite being drafted in the first or second round of the CFL draft. So there's another indication that another NFL team thinks some of these guys from north of the border are worth a serious look this summer.

j_rud  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2015 10:52 pm : link
I don't think it's impossible, but you just don't see a lot of linemen who are that short. I would assume there is some correlation between height and arm length too.
Jerry  
Dragon : 5/23/2015 1:59 am : link
Is a guy with everything U are looking for at guard he just does not play to his talent. He has not come real close to one could say half his physical talent and maybe never will but even so I would be surprised if he is not one of our starting guards unless injury or unknown player is brought in. The OL had several questions the injury to Beatty has just added another one which we really did not need.

I still believe that things are not as bad as they seem because if we have another two injuries on the OL, someone will have to play. Sure we looked good at the OL just a few days past but in truth it was all smoke and mirrors. Not sure who or where they will start TC has always done strange things with the OL due to injury and yes Eli is still alive. Next man or men up are the words of the day now its time to identify who those men are.
I'm optimistic on both counts...  
grizz299 : 5/23/2015 4:28 am : link
I would disagree, Jerry is light on his feet, he's been praised as having the footwork of an OLt. Why he generates so much contempt surprises me. Indications are that Miami was a mess with the bullying indicating that and speaking to poor coaching. In a league where passblocking is increasingly important...he's a good pass blocker. If Jones is labled here as too short it might be truer to say that Jerry is too tall to get descent pad level and drive a 300 lb. shorter man.
He missed pre-season last year, I think he's talented, I think we'll see a much better player when he's had a year of good coaching and when he's not next to Walton.
And I am befuddled, what does it mean Jones will have to adjust to the NFL.? Doesn't every player? He played in a pro league and dominated it thoughly. Wouldn't a division two player who dominated his league have to get used to the NFL.

He dominated a pro league, why isn't that as impressive as a kid dominating in college. Is the believe that American College ball is ten times better than Canadian professional?

Bottom line...I think Jerry will be better and I think Jones will be a good pro...right off the bat. And that's confirmed by his brains and his attitude. He gave up money to come here.
Unless one follows Canadian football,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/23/2015 5:05 am : link
no one has the slightest idea whether Jones is a long shot or "short" shot..
other than the Giants..Cite measurables to your heart's content, but there's no way to measure the guy's heart and grit..And no, you don't have SOME idea, imo..
I feel like the optimism surrounding Jones is overblown...  
Milton : 5/23/2015 5:48 am : link
I think he will be lucky to make the 53 man roster and spend the year inactive. More likely, he is practice squad material. Either way, I don't anticipate 2015 being anything more than a redshirt year for a transplant from the CFL where the DL lines up a yard off the ball.
I hope the kid  
mrvax : 5/23/2015 7:40 am : link
does really well. It's hard to believe that no one in the CFL is good enough to play in the NFL but that's the way it is.

It would be great if he turns out to be very good.
RE: I'm optimistic on both counts...  
Dave in Buffalo : 5/23/2015 8:13 am : link
In comment 12298640 grizz299 said:
Quote:
And I am befuddled, what does it mean Jones will have to adjust to the NFL.? Doesn't every player?


I am optimistic too.

But here's the deal with the adjustment. It's not just an adjustment to the NFL, it's an adjustment to US football. In the CFL, due to that one yard gap between the two lines, the OL and DL don't launch into each other like here in the US. In those instances he's going to have to be able to be able to react much quicker, absorb that initial punch, and even get some push. Watch one of his highlight videos.

That, i think, is the biggest obstacle for him. Even if he does struggle initially with that though, it's not going to be an issue on most snaps, and he's only 23 yrs old, he's likely going to improve.

I can't wait to see what he can do.
I'm intrigued  
UberAlias : 5/23/2015 8:28 am : link
Hard to tell for a guy that has only played Centre.

In the videos I saw, some of the DL look like linebackers. That said, he will be one of the interesting camp story lines to follow.





Jerry  
stretch234 : 5/23/2015 8:28 am : link
Despite the huge pile of shit he receives here, he was not as bad as he is perceived. The C next to him was the weakest link in the line.

Jerry did exactly what he has done before - he shows domination at times and underwhelming at times - he has always had very little middle ground.

He is better than most of the remaining veteran names left at G - he also is healthy every game

Not really expecting a guy from the CFL to beat him out
Let's not forget...  
Milton : 5/23/2015 9:27 am : link
Jerry missed all of camp with an injury. And it's a completely new offense. And not just for him, but the rest of the OL. And the center to his left doesn't belong on an NFL roster. And the right tackle to his right is struggling with an elbow injury.

So all things considered, what should the expectations have been for Jerry last year? With a full year in the system and hopefully a healthy camp, he may turn out to be a very pleasant surprise this season.
Don't you have more leverage being  
Simms11 : 5/23/2015 11:44 am : link
A little shorter?
He could be  
Doomster : 5/24/2015 8:36 am : link
the surprise addition of this club, or another "pancake" Herman...no one knows until the pads go on, and he goes out and plays.....we are due a break, after losing Beatty, the way we did...
RE: yatqb  
SGMen : 5/24/2015 8:56 am : link
In comment 12298320 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
possible, but they have to think about the future too. I think we want to get Richburg to center as fast as possible.

If you ask me, they wasted a year on Walton in 2014.
The Walton signing was clearly a bad one. Had we not signed Walton AND had Schwarz been healthy we could have had Beatty-Schwarz-Richburg-Jerry-Pugh last year, all year less some of the in-season bumps and bruises which force a guy to miss a game here and there.

The improved OL would have allowed for a better run and pass game for sure.

Honestly, I think the injury to Beatty is damning. Just a terrible blow to a team riddled with injuries. I think Newhouse ends up starting at LT because he's played there before. Pugh isn't a LT though he'll get reps there and at OG likely all camp.

Newhouse-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Flowers will start the season because that is the most "seasoned" group but Jones is the first man off the bench on the interior OL and Pugh is the backup OT. We simply have no depth once again, at least not much quality depth.
too early to tell  
The Tempest : 5/24/2015 9:33 am : link
It will come down to training camp
SG, no doubt losing Beatty is a terrible blow.  
yatqb : 5/24/2015 9:34 am : link
Very few teams can replace a starting LT easily.

I'm anxious to see whether Pugh can handle the job...I think he'd be a better LT than RT, but a better LG than either.

As for Richburg and Jones, it would be a boon if Jones could win a starting job on the line and play effectively. I can't see a guy that short playing OG effectively, but could see him at C. If he manned that spot, Richburg would need to slide back to LG, where I think he'd do a better job than last year. It's unlikely to happen, but it will certainly be an interesting training camp. Wish we had two-a-days again, as we really need them.

As for Walton, I agree completely. We'd have been better off with Richburg there.

you want a young core of Giants type players  
idiotsavant : 5/24/2015 10:04 am : link
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg and Jones.

(not in line order, just names of players)

to build upon. guys that are healthy, have upside, no extraneous bullshit and the right attitude.

Jones looks like one of those. Players you wont have to replace due to injury, age or other concerns. 6'2" is not a problem to me.

possibly mosley is on that list as a back up tackle.
Eric: I don't think height is an advantage for a guard  
WillieYoung : 5/24/2015 11:37 am : link
Its weight. Tall guys can carry more weight. If he carries 320 without being slow, I think it will be too his advantage to have a lower center of gravity.
I don't see how anyone can count on Jones right now  
PatersonPlank : 5/24/2015 6:23 pm : link
The guys has never shown he can play here, and never played a down in the NFL. Mosley and Newhouse would be better options.
RE: yatqb  
Matt M. : 5/25/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12298320 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
possible, but they have to think about the future too. I think we want to get Richburg to center as fast as possible.

If you ask me, they wasted a year on Walton in 2014.
I agree 100% with this. The worst part, is it seems like they would have wasted the year on Walton even if Schwartz never got hurt.
Eric  
Matt M. : 5/25/2015 12:56 pm : link
So, do you think Jones makes the roster solely as a backup for OC?
I think he is a  
spike : 5/25/2015 4:42 pm : link
practice squader this season.
My expectations are low  
JonC : 5/25/2015 5:28 pm : link
If he wins a roster spot and knocks Reynolds off it, it's a win win.

But, it's a jump from the CFL to the NFL and he's undersized to boot. Jerry, while enigmatic and often struggled a year ago, is a player NYG really likes.
I'm not convinced that Jerry and Jones are playing for the same roster  
BeerFridge : 5/26/2015 9:17 am : link
spot. Jones is really only a center. He's too small for G, IMO.
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