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Flower's Poor Technique

DonnieD89 : 5/25/2015 10:10 am
I find this amusing as to how much Kehoe praised Flowers, but yet see this article pop up. To me, I don't buy the fact that he is not coachable. The Giants staff pretty much do theie homework when it comes to a 1st round selection. If he has as bad of a technique as what it is quoted in the article, then I take it as how much physically gifted Flowers is for not allowing a sack last season, granted it is at the college level. I know the nuiances of technique very important at the pro level, but I feel the Giants selected Flowers for the purpose of knowing he is coachable.


Link - ( New Window )
you may want to think again  
mdc1 : 5/25/2015 10:14 am : link
please explain what our coaches have actually done with the offensive line lately, exclusive of development of oline selections?

The good news is that we will very shortly see what we have and what our coaches do with him.
It they wanted technique,  
DonnieD89 : 5/25/2015 10:19 am : link
they could have selected Pete. I just don't think they would have selected Flowers thinking that he is not coachalbe.
poor technique  
bc4life : 5/25/2015 10:26 am : link
may very well mean an athletically gifted OL who has been able to get by, to a large degree of God given talent.

He was a boy starting at the toughest OL position at the highest level of competition. Let's wait and see what happens.
his athletic ability is enough to be good at RT  
chris r : 5/25/2015 10:34 am : link
with less then advanced technique. The question is can he elevate it to play LT.
Where did the "uncoachable" bit surface?  
JonC : 5/25/2015 10:35 am : link
I haven't read that, it's more about the lack of coaching available to him at Miami.
Nevermind  
JonC : 5/25/2015 10:37 am : link
I read the linked blurb. Little doubt the kid needs to grow up, but he's demonstrated a good attitude so far, and he plays football with a snarl this team desperately needs. The needle is pointing UP.
How  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 10:37 am : link
many sacks did he give up last year?
Everything I've read says he is very coachable  
PatersonPlank : 5/25/2015 10:48 am : link
and a great athlete. Our coaches, who are NFL level coaches, will get him ready. Also I don't understand the bashing of our coaches. They built SB quality lines in until 2012, when the wheels fell of the talent van. People making them out to be morons are wrong.
a lot of these "mysterious" flaws  
bc4life : 5/25/2015 10:53 am : link
and rumors of flaws that are floating around seem to be filler material. Impatience, ignorance, and a vacuum of information = speculation based articles.

And, I'm not a fan re: these voices from the shadows and sometimes from under rocks) taking shots at these kids. Coach Snuffleupagus says "...."

If they thought about it for a second then they might come up with more solid stories to write about.
Would not take anything for granted with  
TMS : 5/25/2015 11:15 am : link
our OL. We have failed over the last years to develop many who were able to adequately replace those who were before them. Thats why we are always spending on the OL in FA. We have used several draft choices who have not lived up to their hype as well. Poor selection or coaching take your pick.
Here is a pretty good article on the  
DonnieD89 : 5/25/2015 11:15 am : link
breakdown of Flower's through SBnation. I thought is was some good critique.
Link - ( New Window )
what ot  
Mike B from JC : 5/25/2015 11:20 am : link
Has come into the nfl, without needing work on their technique? Flowers, is big and strong and played in the top level of college football. A few adjustments and he will be fine. He has the athletic ability, just needs a little work.
Best suited.  
chiefmps : 5/25/2015 11:28 am : link
Flower's is best suited to play the right tackle spot at this point the Giants mite move Pugh to the left tackle spot and also are going to be forced to play John at the left guard spot. Two weeks ago this line looked good but with Beatty down this is a team in need of some luck and a possible deal.
RE: Here is a pretty good article on the  
TMS : 5/25/2015 11:37 am : link
In comment 12299787 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
breakdown of Flower's through SBnation. I thought is was some good critique. Link - ( New Window )
Good analysis and conclusions. He liked him at #20, we took him at #9. Not good value considering all our other needs.
RE: RE: Here is a pretty good article on the  
Jon in NYC : 5/25/2015 11:41 am : link
In comment 12299797 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 12299787 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


breakdown of Flower's through SBnation. I thought is was some good critique. Link - ( New Window )

Good analysis and conclusions. He liked him at #20, we took him at #9. Not good value considering all our other needs.


You're going to argue that we had other needs that were more pressing than a stud OL?
RE: RE: RE: Here is a pretty good article on the  
Jon in NYC : 5/25/2015 11:43 am : link
In comment 12299798 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 12299797 TMS said:


Quote:


In comment 12299787 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


breakdown of Flower's through SBnation. I thought is was some good critique. Link - ( New Window )

Good analysis and conclusions. He liked him at #20, we took him at #9. Not good value considering all our other needs.



You're going to argue that we had other needs that were more pressing than a stud OL?


I suppose Safety was a more pressing need. Maybe they should have taken the number one rated safety in Collins....

Wait.
TMS, Rob Rang has a message for you.  
Klaatu : 5/25/2015 11:46 am : link
Quote:
Ereck Flowers will be perceived by some as a reach, but his combination of length, strength and nastiness is precisely what the Giants have been missing along the offensive line for several years. No one will be questioning how high he was selected five years from now when he has helped stabilize New York's leaky offensive line.
RE: RE: Here is a pretty good article on the  
DonnieD89 : 5/25/2015 11:54 am : link
In comment 12299797 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 12299787 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


breakdown of Flower's through SBnation. I thought is was some good critique. Link - ( New Window )

Good analysis and conclusions. He liked him at #20, we took him at #9. Not good value considering all our other needs.


This is a good critique, but does not necessarily mean he is worth a #20 pick. That is his opinion. Pugh went #19 and the so called experts thought he was a second round value and he didn't turn out that bad. Same could be said about the Cowboys taking Fredricks that same draft and they got blasted. Can't come to the conclusion now that Flowers is not worth #9 pick. Imagine if he does improve his technique?
he gave up zero sacks and 2 pressures  
George from PA : 5/25/2015 12:09 pm : link
With bad technique.

These articles assume and jump to conclusions. HE IS 3 years removed from HS.


Considered a great hard working kid......

Could dominate as full time professional
Didn't Kehoe say Flowers was mostly a BB player in HS and only  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 12:35 pm : link
locked on to playing football (and OL) as a HS senior?

So he's very, very raw, with huge upside.

Look there was a very polished mammoth guy available at 9, Andrus Peat, who some team saw fit to take 4 picks later than Flowers at 13 overall, right?

That tells me the Giants were very sold on Flowers as being their guy. From a GM who likes shiny hood ornaments.

I don't think Flowers is worth the 9th pick  
mrvax : 5/25/2015 12:41 pm : link
but could be wrong (I hope) a few years from now. What I do believe that happened in this draft that has me hopeful is the 3 starters (and arguably first rounders) they scored with the 1st 3 picks!

So, to me, the 2015 draft was a home run for Reese and friends.

Look what a difference NFL coaching made for  
Phil in LA : 5/25/2015 12:42 pm : link
Seantrel Henderson.... He was considered an underachieving disaster under Kehoe at Miami,
The way I view Flowers  
Matt M. : 5/25/2015 12:50 pm : link
and how I think he is viewed by the Giants and most scouts is that he is absolutely talented enough right now to step in at RT at a high level. He may or may not develop into a LT, but he is a RT right now. He was also the most ready OL available to play right now, which is why they took him.
So glad we didn't pick Peat...  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/25/2015 12:51 pm : link
...the guy's body screams that he is carrying way more weight than his frame allows. Without all that loose flab he's probably 290 lbs. tops. I seriously doubt he has the physical capacity to get stronger. He might have good footwork, but I think he's get eaten alive by NFL bull-rushers.

Good college OT, don't see him being a good NFL OT.

RE: So glad we didn't pick Peat...  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 1:36 pm : link
In comment 12299814 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...the guy's body screams that he is carrying way more weight than his frame allows. Without all that loose flab he's probably 290 lbs. tops. I seriously doubt he has the physical capacity to get stronger. He might have good footwork, but I think he's get eaten alive by NFL bull-rushers.

Good college OT, don't see him being a good NFL OT.



Lordy you are a moron. Or maybe the draft evaluation team working for The Saints are morons, cuz they drafted Peat 4 slots after the Giants at 13?

Naw, I'm stickin' with you as the moron here, along with a fair sized herd of billy goats here who thought "no OL this [2015] year is worth the #9 pick" (ugh Scherff was taken 5th!) and "no running back is worth the #9 pick" umm, Gurley was picked 10th and Gordon 15th with the Chargers moving up to get him at 15....

As a Giants fan, I hope Peat turns out to be a great #13 pick. And Flowers turns out even better!
George in PA  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 1:37 pm : link
Yup.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 1:39 pm : link
Said for weeks, unless they took one of the two WR's (who were both gone), they were going to draft an OL. Only options were Peat or Flowers.

Who else should they have taken at #9?
Gordon or Gurley, Eric.  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 2:45 pm : link
Either one..
Just put Flowers in at OLT  
David B. : 5/25/2015 2:52 pm : link
and live with the rough, rookie moments. With coaching and experience, by mid season, he should be fine. IMO, he's the best option on the roster for OLT right now, and he's going to end up there, eventually anyway. Richburgh wasn't supposed to start last year, but he did, and the world didn't end. Same with Pugh. Like it or not, sometimes these guys have to come in and play.
BlueLou  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 3:46 pm : link
Gurley may never be the same player again. That seems awfully risky to me.

Gordon at #9?
RE: ...  
TMS : 5/25/2015 4:34 pm : link
In comment 12299852 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Said for weeks, unless they took one of the two WR's (who were both gone), they were going to draft an OL. Only options were Peat or Flowers.

Who else should they have taken at #9?
We need help on defense looking at our performance last year, especially against the run, Danny Shelton was available. Hope Flowers becomes all world but there were other options. Liked the first three picks overall. We will see.
TMS  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 5:20 pm : link
Three of our top four picks were defense.

What defensive player would you have taken at #9?

RE: BlueLou  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 5:24 pm : link
In comment 12299923 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gurley may never be the same player again. That seems awfully risky to me.

Gordon at #9?


I actually liked Gordon more than Gurley, not even considering the injury. He looks to me like a guy who's still ascending in terms of learning the position. And his vision is just outstanding, best I've seen in a long while. When so many here echoed draft pundit thoughts that Gordon would be selected something like 20-25th, I said that was bogus and to me he looked like a top 15 talent for sure. Well just barely, but that's where he was selected - top 15.

Yeah I could be way wrong, but this guy I feel really strongly about and I'm not the only one who really loved Gordon this draft...
And I don't buy into the feeling often echoed here,  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 5:26 pm : link
that you would take a guy at 15, but not at 9. Who the hell can judge that finely? Why wasn't OBJ the first WR off the board last year? It's way too inexact, knowing exactly how good each guy will be.
RE: RE: ...  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 5:29 pm : link
In comment 12299952 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 12299852 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Said for weeks, unless they took one of the two WR's (who were both gone), they were going to draft an OL. Only options were Peat or Flowers.

Who else should they have taken at #9?

We need help on defense looking at our performance last year, especially against the run, Danny Shelton was available. Hope Flowers becomes all world but there were other options. Liked the first three picks overall. We will see.


As was pointed out by many, Shelton is a 2 down player. No way you take a huge overweight DT at 9 who's coming out on 3rd and long, maybe even 2nd and long.
RE: Look what a difference NFL coaching made for  
Giants2012 : 5/25/2015 5:32 pm : link
In comment 12299808 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Seantrel Henderson.... He was considered an underachieving disaster under Kehoe at Miami,


That's a really good observation.+1
RE: RE: Look what a difference NFL coaching made for  
yatqb : 5/25/2015 5:47 pm : link
In comment 12299989 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12299808 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Seantrel Henderson.... He was considered an underachieving disaster under Kehoe at Miami,



That's a really good observation.+1


I'm going -1.

Henderson went in the 7th round for a reason. He was suspended as a sophomore for pot, suspended for spring practice the next year for pot, and suspended again in his senior year for pot. He failed another drug test at the Combine, and finally quit working out in the middle of his pro day.

Somehow I don't think those actions have anything to do with Kehoe's competence as an OL coach.

To me Flowers looks like a great athlete for his size, and someone who can be special. But he has a lot of work to do if he's gonna excel. He IS very sloppy at present, imo.
This was a great pick by the Giants  
RetroJint : 5/25/2015 6:02 pm : link
Left or right. Somebody is going to run behind this guy. And defenders are going to have to get by him to get to Eli. And I feel very good about both those developments. Since '11 the Giants have been hanging on by a thread, when successful. Never rooting anybody. Never dominating. It can change with Flowers. That's where I am coming from.
The one thing about Oline  
mrvax : 5/25/2015 7:05 pm : link
I thought strange was the Skins taking Scherff so early when everyone but them know he's a guard at the NFL level. Is a guard worth the 5th pick with all the holes they have?

Surprised they didn't grab Flowers and leave the Giants holding the bag.
RE: RE: RE: Look what a difference NFL coaching made for  
Giants2012 : 5/25/2015 7:32 pm : link
In comment 12300004 yatqb said:
Quote:
In comment 12299989 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


In comment 12299808 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Seantrel Henderson.... He was considered an underachieving disaster under Kehoe at Miami,



That's a really good observation.+1



I'm going -1.

Henderson went in the 7th round for a reason. He was suspended as a sophomore for pot, suspended for spring practice the next year for pot, and suspended again in his senior year for pot. He failed another drug test at the Combine, and finally quit working out in the middle of his pro day.

Somehow I don't think those actions have anything to do with Kehoe's competence as an OL coach.

To me Flowers looks like a great athlete for his size, and someone who can be special. But he has a lot of work to do if he's gonna excel. He IS very sloppy at present, imo.


Kinda drawing the line at his technique. Not blammg anybody but the player for misbehaving and breaking the rules.
BlueLou, instead of blasting me as a moron for having an opinion...  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/25/2015 9:23 pm : link
...that's different from yours, let's just revisit the conversation in three years, ok?
Meanwhile, not sure how me not wanting Peat...  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/25/2015 9:26 pm : link
...means I didn't want OL at #9. But don't let me get in the way of a good rant.
That's a really unflattering photo of peat  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2015 9:28 pm : link
Looks like the fat kid in class.
Why is Flowers Considered a Reach?  
Samiam : 5/25/2015 11:02 pm : link
But not Scherff? If Flowers was "supposed" to go around 15 or so, Scherff was "supposed" to go to the Giants at 9. How come you never hear that the Redskins reached for Scherff? Is it only a reach when the Giants do it?
RE: BlueLou, instead of blasting me as a moron for having an opinion...  
BlueLou : 5/25/2015 11:58 pm : link
In comment 12300155 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...that's different from yours, let's just revisit the conversation in three years, ok?


SB, that's fair. And I apologize for singling you out from what seemed like a herd response to Peat's body shape, but I think you and others who ripped him were (are) way off the mark. So far, the NFL agrees with me. Peat was a top 15 pick.
Scherff is 24  
RAIN : 5/26/2015 1:00 am : link
and is a man. He is ready to play at a high level at either guard or tackle. Flowers poorer technique but is bigger tackle type that will take some time to develop. I wouldn't want Flowers watching the blind side. I feel three years down the road Scherff will have a pro bowl under his belt, and flowers will be contending for one as a right tackle.

The reason Scherff went higher, is he's ready to play now, at a high level. Flowers will likely take some lumps while he learns technique. If he's a sponge, and he can implement technique work.. we have a stud for years at right OR left tackle.
RE: Scherff is 24  
mrvax : 5/27/2015 11:49 am : link
In comment 12300275 RAIN said:
Quote:
and is a man. He is ready to play at a high level at either guard or tackle. Flowers poorer technique but is bigger tackle type that will take some time to develop. I wouldn't want Flowers watching the blind side. I feel three years down the road Scherff will have a pro bowl under his belt, and flowers will be contending for one as a right tackle.

The reason Scherff went higher, is he's ready to play now, at a high level. Flowers will likely take some lumps while he learns technique. If he's a sponge, and he can implement technique work.. we have a stud for years at right OR left tackle.


I haven't scouted the guy myself but seen many reviews saying Scherff is not tackle material at all for the NFL level. Skins took him anyway just to confuse people.
If Scherf is the next John Hannah  
BlueLou : 5/27/2015 11:58 am : link
playing OG, who gives a damn he's not an OT. Not his coaches, I'd bet.

Scherff is a damn good OL, period.
Biggest problem with the Skins taking Scherff...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/27/2015 3:10 pm : link
is that they passed up Leonard Williams to do it, imo.

Scherff can be a great, pro-bowl guard. Maybe even HOF class (which I seriously doubt). If Williams turns out to be a stud there should always be doubt cast upon the Scherff selection, because finding plus talent at OG is so much easier than finding it on the DL.
RE: If Scherf is the next John Hannah  
David in LA : 5/27/2015 5:24 pm : link
In comment 12302385 BlueLou said:
Quote:
playing OG, who gives a damn he's not an OT. Not his coaches, I'd bet.

Scherff is a damn good OL, period.


Obviously, this is on an individual basis, but Iowa's track record for OL performing in the NFL is poor, considering how they pump up their prospects for the draft.
RE: RE: If Scherf is the next John Hannah  
BlueLou : 5/27/2015 5:51 pm : link
In comment 12303083 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12302385 BlueLou said:


Quote:


playing OG, who gives a damn he's not an OT. Not his coaches, I'd bet.

Scherff is a damn good OL, period.



Obviously, this is on an individual basis, but Iowa's track record for OL performing in the NFL is poor, considering how they pump up their prospects for the draft.


Hi David wassup? I think Scherff will prove an exception to that trend, but anyway I am glad we took Flowers after watching more and more of his game tape. He's been dominant at the collegiate level, has great feet, and really, really gives a shit, every play.

And EF is two years away from Scherff in development. If EF grinds and stays healthy, in 2 years at age 23 he will be a mofu OLT.
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