NFT: Phillies at Mets Game 1

You know what? Fuck it. PITCHING. Embrace what got us here and what we have and promote Matz. Going to a 6 man rotation and starting 3 backend starters instead of two is the opposite of what we should be doing.

Promote Matz and start embracing the future and go with the young power rotation. The bullpen has been pretty good and should be getting reinforcements soon as well.

Many teams have shitty lineups and players struggling. I would absolutely look to acquire a bat to replace Wright but thats easier said than done right now. There will likely be more options available as we get closer to July but for now go with the one thing we can control and thats throwing 4 young power aces out there in a row.

in like 5-6 days.

I know that one player isn't saving this lineup but the drop-off from Wright to Cambell and TDA to Plawecki has been so drastic that TDA actually will be filling a MASSIVE hole. It should absolutely help. Now... what to do with third?
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Wow, that's quite the statement there.

BTW, how long does Collins last? Not just because they are 11-18 since their fast start, more because they show no fight at times, especially on the road.

Swept in Chicago and Pittsburgh with hardly a whimper.

How many games below .500 before they make the move?

and fired if things get really bad but I don't think we are quite there yet.

is honoring Eric Gregg. Holy shitballs.

say I really don't mind Murphy hitting 4th today. He has easily been our hottest hitter in May. Cuddyer needs to start being pushed down further in the order also.

Granderson, Lagares, TDA, Duda, Murphy, Cuddyer, Flores, Muno?

Maybe switch Lagares and Muno based on the pitcher?

Little better anyway.

with a pitch to his right shoulder. Colon has gotten about 5-6 pitches already that looked off the plate.

Next month

To see Duda and Cuddyer go yard.

Huge clutch home run!!

nice surprise

In comment 12299901 ZGiants98 said:

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Huge clutch home run!!

Wilmer should stay in the lineup just because of his bat.

But Wilmer's D has actually been more valuable than his offense. I know it was fun for everyone to pile on Flores in April when he had the yips but his defense has been been very good since he's settled down. Those that look at WAR will know what I'm referring to.

That Murphy has his average up to .270 after his dreadful April. Reminds of a game against the Marlins in late April and the announcers were taking bets on when he would his average back up to .290/.300. Late May? Late June? Looks like they weren't far off.

is the new 8th inning guy?

The Mets will always have somebody to land on.

100 MPH like 7-8 times there in the 9th. I was ridiculed for saying I saw him hit 100 MPH in a spring training game last year against the Braves.

In comment 12299945 ZGiants98 said:

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100 MPH like 7-8 times there in the 9th. I was ridiculed for saying I saw him hit 100 MPH in a spring training game last year against the Braves.

Collins met with the players and told them to step up and virtually everyone we are counting on did today.

Looking at the lineup...

Flores and Duda have been virtually everything we could have hoped for at this point in the season...

Cuddyer and Granderson have been average-ish/solid. They haven't been the difference makers maybe some would have hoped for but they have been solid. They certainly haven't hurt us. Cuddyer now up to wRC+ 99 with todays homerun. I think we all believe either of these guys are capable of getting hot for a few weeks as well and they simply haven't yet. We saw it with Granderson last year.

Murphy is back obviously. He's been our best hitter in May.

Lagares has been terrible but he's in the lineup for his glove right?

It really comes down to CF, 3B, and C if we want to upgrade off of the offense we've shown. TDA will be back next week so that solves one huge hole. We can't do anything about CF unless we want to package Lagares for Gomez or something. The colossal issue falls back to 3B and Wright.

until 90 Ws!

a 3 WAR+ player AT SS.

Hysterically, Murphy has actually been playing the best 2B defense of his career to this point as well. Guess that middle defense is killing us?? Not.

let's not get carried away

.

In comment 12299972 Headhunter said:

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let's not get carried away

I don't think anything Ive pointed out has anything to do with the Phillies. Was looking at players numbers up to this point.

I still feel like he's feeling his way through being a major league player. We haven't seen him get really hot yet. The errors mean next to nothing to me. We all saw he was rushing throws, ect. He's never been an error prone guy in the past. He was nervous and it lead to the mistakes. The metrics show he is good defensively this year. He has enough range, he's excellent turning the double play, and he has a strong arm. He's been flat out good period this year. I don't think anyone can dispute that. SS is the last position we need to upgrade on.

In comment 12299945 ZGiants98 said:

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100 MPH like 7-8 times there in the 9th. I was ridiculed for saying I saw him hit 100 MPH in a spring training game last year against the Braves.

Wasn't it Matz or someone else you said throws 100, not Familia?

In comment 12299998 Shecky said:

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In comment 12299945 ZGiants98 said: Quote: 100 MPH like 7-8 times there in the 9th. I was ridiculed for saying I saw him hit 100 MPH in a spring training game last year against the Braves. Wasn't it Matz or someone else you said throws 100, not Familia?

No Shecky it was 100% Familia which was baffling to me since we've all seen hit him hit 97, 98 before. Even if you hate me and think Im full of shit, I still didn't think 100 MPH was that outlandish. lol.

I did say Matz was on record for hitting 99 this year in a game but that was separate and nobody gave me shit about it.

His range runs above average is 4.5. His UZR is 1.2. I would love somebody to give me their scientific formula that disproves this. You can discount WAR all you want but I need to hear something other than he's had a some errors in April as to why he isn't playing a good SS. I need somebody to prove he doesn't have range because by all accounts he does.

I guess I confused Matz and fAmilia then.

Not the formula you asked for. But Flores ranks near dead last in making plays he is expected to.

I need more proof every screwup is based on emotional nerves while the hypocritical saber crew dismisses emotional clutch or choke and plays the bs luck card.

Put Flores at 3rd please.

and Flores is no longer under the microscope, he is going to put up outstanding numbers for a short stop. Patience will be rewarded. It's not like he was a butcher boy at SS, he made throwing errors. An error is an error, but throwing can be fixed, not being able to catch the ball can't.

on Flores, bottom line he is not a liability defensively. Most importantly the team feels he will put up great numbers

Flores' may be their 2nd best defender with Wright out of the lineup. For a team that doesn't hit and plays close games it's a big weakness, and winning 1 game against the Phillies doesn't change that. Nor does it change the fact that Flores' has made at least 2-3+ errors that were turning points in close losses (Cubs/Brewers games back to back were just a couple weeks ago).

Errors are going to happen, but I still don't see what's not to gain by moving Flores to 2nd when Reynolds is ready to get promoted. Murphy will be gone sooner rather than later and there's an opening at 3B for who knows how long. Flores' athleticism should play better at 2nd, and hopefully that upgrades 2 important defensive positions. Herrera is hurt and shown he's not ready yet when healthy, so you cross that bridge later on when you come to it.

The only whipping boys are the fans who have been patient with this bs process yet have to listen to morons talk playoffs and hype up an otherwise inferior product.

.

The go to San Diego Phoenix and come back to play the Giants. They should have TDA in Phoenix and maybe San Diego.

In comment 12300028 Shecky said:

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I guess I confused Matz and fAmilia then. Not the formula you asked for. But Flores ranks near dead last in making plays he is expected to.

Shecky this again has everything to do with the inordinate amount of errors he had in April. Almost all of those throws he rushed, ect were on plays HE SHOULD have made. We already know this. He was also the best SS in all of baseball last year on plays he should have made. I need to see data on Flores that shows me he isn't good defensively outside of the errors. This is almost the same thing as pointing to fielding percentage. Of course his fielding percentage isn't going to be good AGAIN because of the errors.

Outside of the errors, he has shown above average arm, range, and has been excellent turning the double play and he's settled down considerably since his early gaffes.

Well there your have it. Perhaps the most ridiculous perception one can have.

Geno Smith is the best in the league besides the mistakes.

In comment 12300036 Eric on Li said:

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Flores' may be their 2nd best defender with Wright out of the lineup. For a team that doesn't hit and plays close games it's a big weakness, and winning 1 game against the Phillies doesn't change that. Nor does it change the fact that Flores' has made at least 2-3+ errors that were turning points in close losses (Cubs/Brewers games back to back were just a couple weeks ago). Errors are going to happen, but I still don't see what's not to gain by moving Flores to 2nd when Reynolds is ready to get promoted. Murphy will be gone sooner rather than later and there's an opening at 3B for who knows how long. Flores' athleticism should play better at 2nd, and hopefully that upgrades 2 important defensive positions. Herrera is hurt and shown he's not ready yet when healthy, so you cross that bridge later on when you come to it.

I don't know what your looking at unless your just looking at which team has the most errors. Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade. Murphy has been above average at 2nd. Flores has been excellent at SS. Duda has been good at 1st. Lagares is awesome. TDA showed great improvement early. So who sucks? One person. Granderson and that is directly tied to his arm. His range has been pretty good.

within a run or two is not a "turning point." Give me a break. If Flores makes an error and the pitcher goes on to give up 5 hits and 4 runs after that...its Flores' fault because it was a turning point? Bullshit. If you want to kill him for the errors then fine but it's not his fault that Jon Niese is a shitty pitcher. Pitchers need to do their job too. Errors are a part of the game.

In comment 12300055 Giants2012 said:

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Well there your have it. Perhaps the most ridiculous perception one can have. Geno Smith is the best in the league besides the mistakes.

Does geno smith do ANYTHING well? At least Flores can hit.

Nice try though.

In comment 12300042 arcarsenal said:

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.

Flores has actually been better than Peralta this year defensively but you are exactly right. A bunch of people here were pissed we didn't pounce on Peralta and instead settled for Granderson and yet Flores is shaping up almost exactly what Peralta is or was in his prime. Peralta had some rough years defensively and is still considered to be slower, ect but he was a 5 WAR player last year. 21 homeruns, 60 RBI's, .260 average? Isn't this exactly who Flores is shaping up to be?

In comment 12300058 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 12300055 Giants2012 said: Quote: Well there your have it. Perhaps the most ridiculous perception one can have. Geno Smith is the best in the league besides the mistakes. Does geno smith do ANYTHING well? At least Flores can hit. Nice try though.

Error on missing the point. You must be nervous

than any SS in baseball and has a higher OPS than Tulo, Rollins, Castro, Desmond, Andrus, ect.

Not saying the Flores supporters are vindicated yet, but if he keeps this up or God forbid even improves further.... forget it.

Flores is likely a top 5, top 3 even, SS in the game at seasons end.

It took a bit for people to be convinced he could play SS. The Indians didn't think he could handle the position and the metrics more or less supported that. You heard the same exact things you hear about Flores. Didn't have the body type or the range, belonged at 3B, etc..

Then he went to Detroit and they put him at SS. He went from below average defensively, to average, to above average and he's basically aged like fine wine ever since. He was the best SS in baseball last year and is 5th in WAR and 2nd in wRC+ so far this year.

It's not unreasonable to think that Flores could put up similar offensive numbers and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities for him to keep improving defensively.

In comment 12300079 arcarsenal said:

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It took a bit for people to be convinced he could play SS. The Indians didn't think he could handle the position and the metrics more or less supported that. You heard the same exact things you hear about Flores. Didn't have the body type or the range, belonged at 3B, etc.. Then he went to Detroit and they put him at SS. He went from below average defensively, to average, to above average and he's basically aged like fine wine ever since. He was the best SS in baseball last year and is 5th in WAR and 2nd in wRC+ so far this year. It's not unreasonable to think that Flores could put up similar offensive numbers and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities for him to keep improving defensively.

Great, great post. And to further your point, Flores has been much better defensively right out of the gate than Peralta was in his early years. I think its pretty obvious Flores is still learning and improving and will continue to do so.

In comment 12300072 ZGiants98 said:

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than any SS in baseball and has a higher OPS than Tulo, Rollins, Castro, Desmond, Andrus, ect. Not saying the Flores supporters are vindicated yet, but if he keeps this up or God forbid even improves further.... forget it. Flores is likely a top 5, top 3 even, SS in the game at seasons end.

Hes going to be our All star SS next season

or the middle infield. Murphy is back hitting and playing D. Duda has been one of the better players in baseball. TDA looked great in the limited time we saw him. Cuddyer and Granderson have both been "ok". I think you could possibly look to add a corner outfielder and platoon players but Im not sure how much that upgrades the offense yet. Cuddyer and Granderson are 99wRC+ and 109 wRC+ players today and I think they can both be better. Upgrading off Lagares's offense would make a HUGE difference but I don't think anybody is willing to throw away his D yet.

TDA needs to be back ASAP and we need to find a solution at 3B. If Wright is going to be out long term Id look to make a move. Its unfortunate Herrera had his injury when he did as I feel he was the closest to being ready out of our minor league crop. Murphy could have stayed at 3rd. Now I think we need to do something outside of the organization.

I also think we need to clear this pitching mess up and promote Matz but the train hasn't come off the track yet.

In comment 12300082 spike said:

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In comment 12300072 ZGiants98 said: Quote: than any SS in baseball and has a higher OPS than Tulo, Rollins, Castro, Desmond, Andrus, ect. Not saying the Flores supporters are vindicated yet, but if he keeps this up or God forbid even improves further.... forget it. Flores is likely a top 5, top 3 even, SS in the game at seasons end. Hes going to be our All star SS next season

At this point I wouldn't doubt it. He's still young and I think we all need to see that he's over the mental gaffes we saw in April but if he truly is, the sky is the limit.

In comment 12300070 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 12300058 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: In comment 12300055 Giants2012 said: Quote: Well there your have it. Perhaps the most ridiculous perception one can have. Geno Smith is the best in the league besides the mistakes. Does geno smith do ANYTHING well? At least Flores can hit. Nice try though. Error on missing the point. You must be nervous

No, I got the point...sadly. I was just commenting on your swing and miss. I enjoy your shtick, though. Throw in another "cheerleader" comment and another 10 posts about Thor's knee and we can call it a night.

Don't even know why you guys bother responding to this twit.

In comment 12300095 ZGiants98 said:

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Don't even know why you guys bother responding to this twit.

You are right. Moving on.

In comment 12300099 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 12300095 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Don't even know why you guys bother responding to this twit. You are right. Moving on.

Two fickle cheerleaders after a win lol

in double A. Panrell had a clean inning yesterday apparently hitting 94. Looks like these guys both might finally be nearing a return after months of setbacks.

Look out Below again looking strong in AAA tonight. Could Below be a lefty option at some point?

Reynolds continues to struggle. Its kind of good. He had so much success last year at multiple levels it will be important to see how he learns from this and hopefully comes out of this funk.

who might be an option at 2nd or 3rd might actually be TJ Rivera. Interested to see how he does in AAA over an extended period.

Basically everything I was trying to say about Flores tonight. Suck it 12.
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hits after all. Good for him.

what do you do at third base?

There seem to be two options within the organization: Murphy and Flores.

Personally I'd switch Murphy to 3rd base and give Dilson the second base job. I think Murphy - Flores - Dilson is probably about the same defensively as Flores - Reynolds - Murphy, but the former is better offensively.

Let's hope he can build on that.

we could have Castro's 9 errors or Ian Desmond's 12 errors

Castro -.02 Desmond - .01 and we are stuck with Flores plus .03

In comment 12300235 ZGiants98 said:

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in double A. Panrell had a clean inning yesterday apparently hitting 94. Looks like these guys both might finally be nearing a return after months of setbacks. Look out Below again looking strong in AAA tonight. Could Below be a lefty option at some point? Reynolds continues to struggle. Its kind of good. He had so much success last year at multiple levels it will be important to see how he learns from this and hopefully comes out of this funk.

Below career vs. lefties .295 BAA in 42 appearances... short answer. No.

Goeddel & ??

In comment 12300293 Headhunter said:

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Castro -.02 Desmond - .01 and we are stuck with Flores plus .03

Reyes scored a -.7 dear the year he and won a batting title too.

.

In comment 12300303 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 12300235 ZGiants98 said: Quote: in double A. Panrell had a clean inning yesterday apparently hitting 94. Looks like these guys both might finally be nearing a return after months of setbacks. Look out Below again looking strong in AAA tonight. Could Below be a lefty option at some point? Reynolds continues to struggle. Its kind of good. He had so much success last year at multiple levels it will be important to see how he learns from this and hopefully comes out of this funk. Below career vs. lefties .295 BAA in 42 appearances... short answer. No.

Lol. Obviously something has clicked for him recently in AAA. I'm not interested in his career numbers prior. Below is the savior we have been waiting for clearly!! ;)

aren't interested in career numbers for a guy who who has pitched 43 big league games and 187 minor league games and believe 2 starts in a row supersede that? Even with those 2 starts he's pitched 41.1 innings striking out... 23 and has a 4.21 FIP this year in AAA... despite those 2 starts.

been insanely lucky, nothing more. .265 BABIP, 85% strand rate... MLB average strand rates the last 5 seasons


2010: 72.2 percent
2011: 72.5 percent
2012: 72.5 percent
2013: 73.5 percent
2014: 73.0 percent

I'm clearly joking.

historical context, the highest strand rate for a full season since they tracked the stat (1965) is 88.8%, John Candalaria in 1977.

Number one in the NL with an entire "other" bullpen on the DL.

Parnell, Black, Mejia, Blevins, Carlyle, Montero and Edgin.

are on the verge of trading Callaspo, Rubin says likely not us, I would hope not. He stinks and might as well go with someone like Reynolds if they absolutely needed to "add" someone. Callaspo is trash.

Callaspo even worse than I realized recently. Last 2 seasons (164 games) .219/.291/.282, 63 OPS+.

at least top 5 I should say depending on what you are looking at.

defense article
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just said this, "Good talent always corrects itself in the end.." I really think that's the case here with Wilmer. He's on pace for 28 homeruns. You have to play him everyday for his bat and I think his defense will improve through experience.

If Wilmer can put up Peralta type offensive numbers (.260, 20 HR, 75 RBI) all he has to do is be average defensively for him to be an overall plus at the position.

What gets lost on people is that player value is an aggregate figure. It's the reason why Flores is playing SS to begin with. He's not there because the FO thinks he's going to be a plus glove, he's there because his maximum potential value is almost certainly at SS.

In comment 12300530 arcarsenal said:

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If Wilmer can put up Peralta type offensive numbers (.260, 20 HR, 75 RBI) all he has to do is be average defensively for him to be an overall plus at the position. What gets lost on people is that player value is an aggregate figure. It's the reason why Flores is playing SS to begin with. He's not there because the FO thinks he's going to be a plus glove, he's there because his maximum potential value is almost certainly at SS.

Exactly. This is what the "move Flores to 3B/2B" crowd don't seem to understand. He is MORE valuable as a SS. There's only a handful of players in the game capable of putting up those numbers from the SS position.

The Mets will likely botch this. It's a tradition.

Put the kid, who already had to lose weight by age 24, over at 3rd. More consistent throws due to less ground to cover, if he gains some weight back it won't hinder him at 3rd like SS and watch him blast 30 homeruns per year.

In comment 12300538 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12300530 arcarsenal said: Quote: If Wilmer can put up Peralta type offensive numbers (.260, 20 HR, 75 RBI) all he has to do is be average defensively for him to be an overall plus at the position. What gets lost on people is that player value is an aggregate figure. It's the reason why Flores is playing SS to begin with. He's not there because the FO thinks he's going to be a plus glove, he's there because his maximum potential value is almost certainly at SS. Exactly. This is what the "move Flores to 3B/2B" crowd don't seem to understand. He is MORE valuable as a SS. There's only a handful of players in the game capable of putting up those numbers from the SS position.

I get that, I just disagree with it. For the same reason I wouldn't want to play Granderson in CF just to maximize his value. Maximizing individual players value's doesn't necessarily present the best overall option for the team. For the same reason we all love Lagares despite his offense, I'd like to have a guy with higher defensive upside at the equally critical position of SS. Especially since this team is built on pitching. I doubt any of us have seen enough of Reynolds/Flores to seriously compare their defensive abilities, but that's why I'd like to get a look at him. All we heard about Flores from sources IN the organization prior to playing SS at the MLB level was that he couldn't play SS, so who knows?

Also, if Flores is hitting between 20-30 homeruns and playing average defense at 2nd he will add plenty of value. Presumably a lot more than Murphy ever did, whose best season was 3.1fWar.

dealt for Callaspo. I liked the Uribe for Gee idea some had mentioned. So much for that.

Exactly zero MLB 3B hit 30 HR's last year. I have a hard time believing moving Flores there will give us that result.

Flores has the potential to be an above average asset at SS. Moving him to 3B likely gives you average value at the position and not much more. The idea is to maximize player value.

made some nice plays in Pittsburgh. Leave him at SS and focus on another big bat to play a corner outfield position and platoon Cudyyer/Granderson in RF

but Cuddyer has played a ton of third in his life. Acquiring a corner OF and moving Cuddyer to third might be a solution, although likely not the best one.

In comment 12300546 Giants2012 said:

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The Mets will likely botch this. It's a tradition. Put the kid, who already had to lose weight by age 24, over at 3rd. More consistent throws due to less ground to cover, if he gains some weight back it won't hinder him at 3rd like SS and watch him blast 30 homeruns per year.

Drop it bro... Flores is our SS for the foreseeable future. The Mets aren't moving him. He's getting more and more comfortable out there and it's showing up in his play. Mainly due to all our injuries, Collins have finally allowed him to play everyday and get in a rhythm. And it's paid off.

Find something else to discuss. You must have other concerns. Because Flores shouldn't be your main one or at the top of your list.

Dodgers, Braves talking Uribe/Callaspo deal
FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that the Dodgers are talking to the Braves about a deal involving Juan Uribe and Alberto Callaspo.
No specifics yet, but Uribe and a minor leaguer would go to the Braves for Callaspo and three minor leaguers. Rosenthal hears from one source that the deal was close to being completed as of Monday night, which explains why Callaspo was a late-scratch from the Braves' lineup. Callaspo doesn't have much value to the Dodgers, but moving Uribe would officially clear the way for Alex Guerrero, Justin Turner, and Scott Van Slyke to take on more pronounced roles. Uribe, 36, is batting just .247/.287/.309 with one home run and six RBI through 87 plate appearances this season and is making $6.5 million. Because Callaspo signed a one-year, $3 million deal with the Braves as a free agent over the winter, he has the ability to veto any trade until June 15.
Source: Ken Rosenthal on TwitterMay 26 - 10:48 AM

pretty fair deal

we are still in a holding pattern until we know what the deal is with Wright. Sandy mentioned he thought they would be able to make a decision in a few days so let's hope.

In the meantime, TDA cant get here fast enough and lets hope the guys that are here continue to heat up.

We could use his bat right now.

I thought Turner was a complete turd. Then he goes to LA and becomes a 4 WAR player.

Ridiculous.

deal here. I must have been one of the only people here that liked him. Thought he was a good bench piece.

In comment 12300582 ZGiants98 said:

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but Cuddyer has played a ton of third in his life. Acquiring a corner OF and moving Cuddyer to third might be a solution, although likely not the best one.

Seriously? He's 36 and has trouble staying healthy...

In comment 12300604 speedywheels said:

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In comment 12300582 ZGiants98 said: Quote: but Cuddyer has played a ton of third in his life. Acquiring a corner OF and moving Cuddyer to third might be a solution, although likely not the best one. Seriously? He's 36 and has trouble staying healthy...

Yes. Seriously. 36 year olds cant play 3rd? Likely just as demanding as running around the OF. Obviously it wouldn't be ideal but maybe you could platoon a few players and get him in the lineup that way if you acquired an OF bat.

Who's hot. Who's not.
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bummed we ended up with Boyd when Tucker didn't answer his phone.

In comment 12300584 Four Aces said:

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In comment 12300546 Giants2012 said: Find something else to discuss. You must have other concerns. Because Flores shouldn't be your main one or at the top of your list.

I've hit on just every other concern since before opening day and Flores isn't going to go away anytime soon. It's amazing how another win over hapless Philly changes the whole tune but doesn't really change anything.

I expressed my Grandy, Cuddyer, Niese, Wright before this diagnosis, the middle infield, Murphy etc and have hit on all of them if you check out the predictions.

From his opening start, I mentioned how Thor's knee doesn't come up with a runner on first which makes his ball either dive or sail out of control. Few recognized it (and comically still don't) yet in Thor's second start with a runner on first, his knee dropped and his ball almost took off Gomez's face.

Flores, in his short career so far in his 22nd thru 24th years of young life, has hit .240, with a .276 OB%, and .373 slug %. As a 24 year old, his slug % is .419, as a 22 year old in 95 at bats it was .295, so he is clearly improving. And a team-leading 7 dingers.

Jeff Kent, with 377 career homers and 1,518 RBIs, started his career briefly with Toronto, and was traded to the Mets in his rookie year in 1992 during that season. He had 305 at bats, 11 homers, 50 RBIs, hit .239. Nice RBIs, but otherwise nothing special.

In 1993 -1996, as a 25-28 year old, Kent substantially improved. The following 9 years, he averaged 110 RBIs. Mets were not patient enough, and missed what would have been their best offensive player ever.

Lucas Duda struggled with insecurity as a young arrival being used in an uncomfortable fielding position. He weathered a lot of criticism. He had some real hitting droughts. Was sent back to the minors. Patience on the fans' part was quite limited. Fans wanted him gone, Ike, Ike, he's our man, etc.

Then a funny thing happened. Duda won out over Ike last spring, got to play at 1B, turns out he fields darned well.

He also at the same time felt he belonged, and adjusted and improved. Especially since June 2014. Since then, he has hit .278 in 517 ABs, 34 doubles, 29 homers, 88 RBIs in a little over 140 starts.

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In comment 12300608 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12300604 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12300582 ZGiants98 said: Quote: but Cuddyer has played a ton of third in his life. Acquiring a corner OF and moving Cuddyer to third might be a solution, although likely not the best one. Seriously? He's 36 and has trouble staying healthy... Yes. Seriously. 36 year olds cant play 3rd? Likely just as demanding as running around the OF. Obviously it wouldn't be ideal but maybe you could platoon a few players and get him in the lineup that way if you acquired an OF bat.

First of all, it's not called the hot corner for nothing, it's a VERY demanding position. Certainly more demanding that playing a corner OF position.

Second, he's hardly played a "ton" (as you put it) of 3B; he's played a whopping 174 games over 7 seasons. In other words, barely more than 1 season, over a 14 year career.

Third, outside of 3 games in 2014, he hasn't played 3B since 2010. And even that year, he played all of 14 games.

There is a reason why teams look to move 36 year olds OFF of 3rd base, to a position that is less demanding psychically; you don't see teams move a 36 year old TO 3B

So yeah, at this point in his career moving Cuddyer to 3B is pretty dumb idea

Mark Bowman of MLB.com reports that the potential Juan Uribe/Alberto Callaspo swap between the Dodgers and Braves has "lost traction."
Source: Mark Bowman on TwitterMay 26 - 12:18 PM

Of the 174 games he played at 3B, he played 138 of them over 2 years - 2004 and 2005. When he was 25-26 years old.

So moving him back to the position TEN years later somehow makes sense?

Nobody has ever doubted Flores' bat. Jeff Kent wasn't a patience issue. Not that the Mets had the most credible clubhouse but the guy was a clubhouse nightmare according to many. He hated the Mets and he forced his way out of town. His continued ways resulted in a very short stint in Cleveland.

Meanwhile, Flores has been a pretty quiet kid.

there were. Some of those names people wanted to give up the farm for. Wilmer offensively is second to none and more than holds his own defensively based on metrics
Link - ( New Window )

Simmons might eventually be a HOFer. The guy is an absolutely incredible defensive player

In comment 12300627 speedywheels said:

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Of the 174 games he played at 3B, he played 138 of them over 2 years - 2004 and 2005. When he was 25-26 years old. So moving him back to the position TEN years later somehow makes sense?

You are a complete moron. What are you trying to say? That I'm somehow trying to anoint Cuddyer our 3rd baseman of the future?? Get a fucking life. I said from the beginning it was likely a poor idea. I was simply suggesting a few possibilities IF we acquired a big outfield bat while Wright is out.

Just another demonstration of the LOUD Sabers reciting stats yet not understanding the game at all.

outfielder who can be part of the team's future. If that means moving Cuddyer to super overpaid reserve, so be it.

The Mets are getting killed in the corner outfield positions production wise and while I like Confroto going forward, Nimmo is not a good enough player to prevent you from getting a much needed big bat.

In comment 12300702 chris r said:

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outfielder who can be part of the team's future. If that means moving Cuddyer to super overpaid reserve, so be it.

Com'on chris, they're not going to do that. The Mets never eat dollars and actually lost a #1 pick for this guy.

Many never understood the offseason and Spring training drool over this older player. Maverick should have addressed the LF position with a better player and all the metrics in the world don't cover up another Maverick F'up in the open market. Until he gets injured, and he will, he's your left fielder and there isn't much on deck.

In comment 12300671 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 12300627 speedywheels said: Quote: Of the 174 games he played at 3B, he played 138 of them over 2 years - 2004 and 2005. When he was 25-26 years old. So moving him back to the position TEN years later somehow makes sense? You are a complete moron. What are you trying to say? That I'm somehow trying to anoint Cuddyer our 3rd baseman of the future?? Get a fucking life. I said from the beginning it was likely a poor idea. I was simply suggesting a few possibilities IF we acquired a big outfield bat while Wright is out.

Holy shit! Calm the fuck down, man.

I simply said it was a dumb idea. I never said you were "anointing" him a the 3B of the future. Moving a 36 year old injury prone player to 3B (a position he hasn't played regularly in 10 years) in the event of a acquiring a big bat in the OF in the hopes of getting him some AB's is not a dumb idea; it's a fucking stupid idea.

If this mythical big OF bat is somehow magically acquired, he can continue to get AB's by spelling Duda against LHP. Otherwise, he can sit is .230 hitting ass on the bench save and wait for some PH appearances and/or play DH against AL teams. But playing him at 3B - even just to get a few AB's - is stupid. Period.

In comment 12300696 Giants2012 said:

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Just another demonstration of the LOUD Sabers reciting stats yet not understanding the game at all.

I was speaking in regards to Cuddyer specifically who has had a series of leg injuries, ect. You don't need a lot range or speed to play third(the very case your making to move Flores there). I never meant to suggest Cuddyer was our answer to all our prayers at third base moving forward. Merely was saying he could play there in a pinch or in a platoon role possibly if we were hell bent on acquiring another bat in the OF. Again, I said from the beginning it was likely a poor solution. But have fun jumping on my case about something I was fully just throwing out there in the first place.

The @FloridaStateLg has named Michael Conforto as its Player of the Week for the 2nd time! Congrats @mconforto8 pic.twitter.com/deaCV5Ep6S

In comment 12300723 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 12300696 Giants2012 said: Quote: Just another demonstration of the LOUD Sabers reciting stats yet not understanding the game at all. I was speaking in regards to Cuddyer specifically who has had a series of leg injuries, ect. You don't need a lot range or speed to play third(the very case your making to move Flores there). I never meant to suggest Cuddyer was our answer to all our prayers at third base moving forward. Merely was saying he could play there in a pinch or in a platoon role possibly if we were hell bent on acquiring another bat in the OF. Again, I said from the beginning it was likely a poor solution. But have fun jumping on my case about something I was fully just throwing out there in the first place.

And you also said that playing 3B is just as physically demanding as running around in the OF. Which is a ridiculous statement

are likely BOTH worst options defensively at third btw.

In comment 12300730 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 12300723 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12300696 Giants2012 said: Quote: Just another demonstration of the LOUD Sabers reciting stats yet not understanding the game at all. I was speaking in regards to Cuddyer specifically who has had a series of leg injuries, ect. You don't need a lot range or speed to play third(the very case your making to move Flores there). I never meant to suggest Cuddyer was our answer to all our prayers at third base moving forward. Merely was saying he could play there in a pinch or in a platoon role possibly if we were hell bent on acquiring another bat in the OF. Again, I said from the beginning it was likely a poor solution. But have fun jumping on my case about something I was fully just throwing out there in the first place. And you also said that playing 3B is just as physically demanding as running around in the OF. Which is a ridiculous statement

Did you not read what I just fucking wrote? I just answered that saying I was talking about that in regards to Cuddyer specifically who has had a series of leg injuries, ect.

and won't leave yourself so exposed. I mean, coming off "Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade" followed by claiming OF isn't more strenuous than 3rd base while calling another poster a moron proves what? You're all over the place . . . again?

In comment 12300617 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 12300584 Four Aces said: Quote: In comment 12300546 Giants2012 said: Find something else to discuss. You must have other concerns. Because Flores shouldn't be your main one or at the top of your list. I've hit on just every other concern since before opening day and Flores isn't going to go away anytime soon. It's amazing how another win over hapless Philly changes the whole tune but doesn't really change anything. I expressed my Grandy, Cuddyer, Niese, Wright before this diagnosis, the middle infield, Murphy etc and have hit on all of them if you check out the predictions. From his opening start, I mentioned how Thor's knee doesn't come up with a runner on first which makes his ball either dive or sail out of control. Few recognized it (and comically still don't) yet in Thor's second start with a runner on first, his knee dropped and his ball almost took off Gomez's face. LMAO. THE KNEEE!!! THE KNEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

In comment 12300740 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12300617 Giants2012 said: Quote: In comment 12300584 Four Aces said: Quote: In comment 12300546 Giants2012 said: Find something else to discuss. You must have other concerns. Because Flores shouldn't be your main one or at the top of your list. I've hit on just every other concern since before opening day and Flores isn't going to go away anytime soon. It's amazing how another win over hapless Philly changes the whole tune but doesn't really change anything. I expressed my Grandy, Cuddyer, Niese, Wright before this diagnosis, the middle infield, Murphy etc and have hit on all of them if you check out the predictions. From his opening start, I mentioned how Thor's knee doesn't come up with a runner on first which makes his ball either dive or sail out of control. Few recognized it (and comically still don't) yet in Thor's second start with a runner on first, his knee dropped and his ball almost took off Gomez's face. LMAO. THE KNEEE!!! THE KNEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

No saber stat for mechanics? Nah, but look at the MPH b/c that's "AWESOME" said little nephew.

In comment 12300737 Giants2012 said:

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and won't leave yourself so exposed. I mean, coming off "Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade" followed by claiming OF isn't more strenuous than 3rd base while calling another poster a moron proves what? You're all over the place . . . again?

Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade. FACT. It likely isn't more strenuous for him since he has experience there and is just as likely to injure himself running around in the OF, yes. And jumping on my case for just spit-balling an idea THAT I myself CALLED POOR deserves the moron response, yes.

FEAR THE KNEEEEE!!!

In comment 12300749 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12300737 Giants2012 said: Quote: and won't leave yourself so exposed. I mean, coming off "Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade" followed by claiming OF isn't more strenuous than 3rd base while calling another poster a moron proves what? You're all over the place . . . again? Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade. FACT. It likely isn't more strenuous for him since he has experience there and is just as likely to injure himself running around in the OF, yes. And jumping on my case for just spit-balling an idea THAT I myself CALLED POOR deserves the moron response, yes.

Reciting Saber is an acumen just as posting from 8am to 2am the next day is apparently a way of life.

Learn to the game skippy.

In comment 12300736 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 12300730 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12300723 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12300696 Giants2012 said: Quote: Just another demonstration of the LOUD Sabers reciting stats yet not understanding the game at all. I was speaking in regards to Cuddyer specifically who has had a series of leg injuries, ect. You don't need a lot range or speed to play third(the very case your making to move Flores there). I never meant to suggest Cuddyer was our answer to all our prayers at third base moving forward. Merely was saying he could play there in a pinch or in a platoon role possibly if we were hell bent on acquiring another bat in the OF. Again, I said from the beginning it was likely a poor solution. But have fun jumping on my case about something I was fully just throwing out there in the first place. And you also said that playing 3B is just as physically demanding as running around in the OF. Which is a ridiculous statement Did you not read what I just fucking wrote? I just answered that saying I was talking about that in regards to Cuddyer specifically who has had a series of leg injuries, ect.

I read the crap you wrote. Leg injuries are not going to effect someone playing 3B?? All the diving, the running up the line for foul pop ups, running down the line to field bunts, running to cover 3rd on a steal.

Just stop it. Please.

I'd love that. No idea where he plays exactly, but he's a solid veteran who could fill a lot of gaps. Especially with the injury proneness of so much of this roster.

In comment 12300767 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

In comment 12300749 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12300737 Giants2012 said: Quote: and won't leave yourself so exposed. I mean, coming off "Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade" followed by claiming OF isn't more strenuous than 3rd base while calling another poster a moron proves what? You're all over the place . . . again? Cuddyer is playing the best defense he's played in a decade. FACT. It likely isn't more strenuous for him since he has experience there and is just as likely to injure himself running around in the OF, yes. And jumping on my case for just spit-balling an idea THAT I myself CALLED POOR deserves the moron response, yes. Reciting Saber is an acumen just as posting from 8am to 2am the next day is apparently a way of life. Learn to the game skippy.

I will learn to the game skippy. Aye aye captain.

In comment 12300868 Eric on Li said:

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I'd love that. No idea where he plays exactly, but he's a solid veteran who could fill a lot of gaps. Especially with the injury proneness of so much of this roster.

It actually makes a ton of sense. Now I was against it in the off-season and the price tag seamed way too high, but if Wright is going to be out for the foreseeable future, Zobrist would seem to be a nice fit.

for assignment yesterday. It might be worth a look just to have a veteran 3b on the bench until DW returns.

but Brewers sound open to dealing Braun or Gomez. I could see either being a potential fit here, though there's no chance I'd deal Thor or Matz for either one. Braun would have to be a Matt Kemp-esque dump for it to make sense. Gomez would probably require at least 1 blue chip asset, but I'd try to steer that towards a Herrera/Plawecki type. Though, it's understandable they may not do a deal unless Thor/Matz are on the table.
Brewers Could Trade Braun, Gomez, Or Segura For Right Price - ( New Window )

Thank goodness Maverick didn't sign him.

In comment 12300923 Eric on Li said:

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but Brewers sound open to dealing Braun or Gomez. I could see either being a potential fit here, though there's no chance I'd deal Thor or Matz for either one. Braun would have to be a Matt Kemp-esque dump for it to make sense. Gomez would probably require at least 1 blue chip asset, but I'd try to steer that towards a Herrera/Plawecki type. Though, it's understandable they may not do a deal unless Thor/Matz are on the table. Brewers Could Trade Braun, Gomez, Or Segura For Right Price - ( New Window )

Can't see the Brewers having much interest in Plawecki. Lucroy is a stud and team controlled through 2017. I'd be pretty shocked in fact. I'm not into Segura at all. In fact, I think he sucks.Braun is a stud but I have a very hard time seeing the Mets move into a 25 million dollar platoon in one corner and Braun in the other. Don't see them taking on enough salary to be the "winners" for Braun either.

I don't like Gomez's value as a corner OF.

but dont see the mets pulling it off.

And Gomez is good enough offensively that it doesnt matter to me which OF position he plays. His bat plays anywhere.

love to be proven wrong but I think Plawecki is a tier 2 caliber prospect in terms of trade value. Not saying he doesn't have legit value but for a star I'd be pretty shocked if he's a headliner.

In comment 12301071 Italianju said:

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but dont see the mets pulling it off. And Gomez is good enough offensively that it doesnt matter to me which OF position he plays. His bat plays anywhere.

Gomez is around .800 OPS the last four years. Its an upgrade over what we have, but not the big stick we need.

assets for him like he's a .800+ CFer which is obviously much more valuable than a RF/LF with the same production.

If that is what your saying i guess thats true, but he has finished in the top 10 the last two years amongst OF in OPS and was just outside 30 3 seasons ago. I didnt go back 4 since that season he only played in 97 games. Im not saying id give up the world for him, but considering he is 29 id prolly rather him then Braun who had that whole weird wrist or thumb injury or whatever it was.

with either of them, lol.

with Gomez is TONS of teams will want him as their CF, will "pay" as such and his contract is absolutely awesome for his value.

is owed basically the same money as Jon Niese. That's how ridiculous his contract is. Gomez makes less than Cuddyer and Granderson makes more yearly than Gomez is owed for 1.5 seasons.

I think the only real top tier trade chips they have are Matz/Thor and I think that's what it would take for a Gomez-level player. Would love to be wrong on that but the best they will likely be able to do is a Zobrist level guy. Francesa just threw out Martin Prado as well, that's another reasonably interesting name.