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Three guys to keep a close eye on along the offensive line

Vin_Cuccs : 5/25/2015 8:26 pm
The Beatty injury has obviously stirred up quite a bit of commotion. As I mentioned in another thread, I'm not too worried. Beatty has underwhelmed for two seasons now, and if there is ever a time to lose your starting left tackle, it is in mid may this way the waiver wire can be scoured and guys on the roster have a chance to adjust.

Three guys who might be longshots to start, but I would keep a very, very close eye on during training camp: Bobby Hart, Michael Bamiro and Emmett Cleary.

Disclaimer: obviously, I know all three of these guys are longshots and none of the 3 may even make the roster.

If Pugh goes to left tackle, keep an eye on Bobby Hart at guard. Sure, he's a 7th round pick, but the kid can play. Accomplished and he has good size. His knock is his athleticism, but that that shouldn't be much of an issue at guard. And he is more athletic than what he is given credit for. He has the strength to come in and compete right away which most rookies can't do as they need time in the pro weight room first. He also fits what the Giants want which is the strong, mauler type.

If Flowers goes to left tackle, keep and eye on Bamiro. He has great size to muscle at right tackle and hopefully he worked on his technique last year on the practice squad. This might be a long shot but his combination of size and athleticism are very interesting. It is a longshot, sure, but it wouldn't totally surprise me if Bamiro turned some heads at camp.

Emmett Cleary is interesting, but he would really have to impress to earn a starting spot, especially at left tackle. He has NFL size, strength and athleticism. He can finish blocks and has experience at left tackle. He also has a bit of a mean streak as well. Good knee bend, good punch, good feet and long arms. Former 4th round pick and blocked for Andre Williams at Boston College so he has had success in college. I'm most excited to see what he can do. Call it a hunch, but I'm excited about his potential if he can put it together.

Obviously, Newhouse is the guy who should get the first crack at the job. Sure, he has underwhelmed, but maybe a change of scenery will do him well. He has good size and athleticism and hopefully he can find what he lost in Green Bay and Cincinatti.

One guy I don't think will factor in is Brett Jones. Others have mentioned this recently, but I think Jones is strictly a center, and a back-up center at that (at least for this year). His size and the learning curve will make it tough for him to be a factor at any position other than center.

I think that the clock has run out on Kropog, Reynolds, Herman and Mosley. I think we have seen all that these four have to offer. John Jerry is best as a 6th lineman. Gettis is a journeyman who is an emergency plan.

Donnelly is intriguing, but it would be unfair to expect any type of contribution from them this season. I am interested to see if he can contribute in the future.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm not too terribly worried about losing Beatty (yet). With that in mind, I wouldn't object to looking into Jake Long of Tyson Clabo....
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 8:30 pm : link
Newhouse, Cleary, Bamiro, and Donnelly are all huge.
as  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 8:30 pm : link
is Hart.

We need someone to surprise.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 8:32 pm : link
Correction on Cleary however...he wasn't drafted but signed as a UDFA by the Colts.
I don't think it's that complicated  
BillT : 5/25/2015 8:38 pm : link
Pugh is a 3rd year vet tackle and was a star LOT in college. He seems the obvious choice to be the LT this year. Flowers is a huge strong guy who as the #9 pick should get 1st shot at ROT. I think tackle is pretty well set unless Flowers really falls on his face which I doubt will happen.

Richburg and Schwartz are the center and guard. Leaves one spot open. It's a bit of an open question and you can kill me for this but I think Jerry will be head and shoulders better than anyone else on the roster. And there will be a lot of crow to eat for a lot off BBIers.
RE: I don't think it's that complicated  
Beer Man : 5/25/2015 8:41 pm : link
In comment 12300111 BillT said:
Quote:
Pugh is a 3rd year vet tackle and was a star LOT in college. He seems the obvious choice to be the LT this year. Flowers is a huge strong guy who as the #9 pick should get 1st shot at ROT. I think tackle is pretty well set unless Flowers really falls on his face which I doubt will happen.

Richburg and Schwartz are the center and guard. Leaves one spot open. It's a bit of an open question and you can kill me for this but I think Jerry will be head and shoulders better than anyone else on the roster. And there will be a lot of crow to eat for a lot off BBIers.
Based on what? Jerry is about as milk-toast as they come.
I certainly will be interesting  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/25/2015 8:41 pm : link
to see how this played out.

One thing I guarantee - the Giants have been very carefully evaluating talent - they have shifted focus two years ago and stopped playing the risk reward game -- they are evaluating for size, type, and character, this year they added attitude

This would not be the first time some UDFAs rose up and made the team - every one of these guys will get a real chance at it - including Flowers
Vin  
YANKEE28 : 5/25/2015 8:46 pm : link
a footnote on your thread.

Cleary was not drafted in the 4th round in 2013.

He was actually an UDFA, and a very desirable one. There was a bidding war right after the draft ended and he went to the Colts with what I recall was over a $22,000 signing bonus-certainly in the Top 10 for signing bonus money for an UDFA.

Unfortunately, he has had little success and has been cut by the Colts, Tampa Bay, the Raiders, and the Bengals.

We are his FIFTH team, so he is a long shot at best.
My fault Eric, you are right.  
Vin_Cuccs : 5/25/2015 8:47 pm : link
Cleary was undrafted.
Here is the thing with Pugh....  
Vin_Cuccs : 5/25/2015 8:52 pm : link
....he is the only tackle versatile enough to play guard.

If Pugh and Flowers are the tackles, the odds on favorite to win the second guard job with Schwartz is John Jerry and he was wildly inconsistent.

If Pugh kicks inside to guard, a guy like Newhouse, Bamiro or Cleary could challenge for a tackle spot.

Obviously, Pugh looks like the favorite to go to left tackle, with Newhouse and Flowers as other options.
And if Pugh is at tackle....  
Vin_Cuccs : 5/25/2015 8:53 pm : link
....that means another season of John Jerry at guard unless Hart can beat him out, which may be a tall task as a 7th round rookie.
RE: RE: I don't think it's that complicated  
BillT : 5/25/2015 8:53 pm : link
In comment 12300113 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 12300111 BillT said:


Quote:


Pugh is a 3rd year vet tackle and was a star LOT in college. He seems the obvious choice to be the LT this year. Flowers is a huge strong guy who as the #9 pick should get 1st shot at ROT. I think tackle is pretty well set unless Flowers really falls on his face which I doubt will happen.

Richburg and Schwartz are the center and guard. Leaves one spot open. It's a bit of an open question and you can kill me for this but I think Jerry will be head and shoulders better than anyone else on the roster. And there will be a lot of crow to eat for a lot off BBIers.

Based on what? Jerry is about as milk-toast as they come.


61 overall starts (including 10 as a rookie) and 48 straight starts over the last three years. Got anyone else on this roster with those credentials?
This is a disaster in the makings  
Johnny Boy : 5/25/2015 9:07 pm : link
I feel bad for Eli. He shouldn't have to endure this treatment year after year.
It's  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 9:09 pm : link
not a disaster. They have 4/5ths of the line set. They will have two #1s and a #2 starting on the OL and one of 2014's top free agent OLs.

Even if John Jerry starts again, he's not ideal but serviceable.
and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 9:14 pm : link
call me crazy, but I'm actually curious to see what Marshall Newhouse is all about. He's absolutely huge too. He's one of those guys who probably drives coaches crazy because at times, he looks like a stud.
BTW  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 9:18 pm : link
Bamiro grew up a big Giants fan....
Giants sign Stony Brook University's Michael Bamiro to practice squad - ( New Window )
Eric  
YANKEE28 : 5/25/2015 9:29 pm : link
this article is over a year old, but it has a TON of information on Newhouse.

It is worth the read.
Link - ( New Window )
Optimism, thy name is Eric....  
Doomster : 5/25/2015 10:17 pm : link
It's
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9:09 pm : link : reply
not a disaster. They have 4/5ths of the line set. They will have two #1s and a #2 starting on the OL and one of 2014's top free agent OLs.

The way this line was setting up, we would have 4 new position players and Beatty.....

Now we will have possibly 5 new position players.....how long will it take for chemistry to develop? these guys just won't have the time to have that veteran cohesiveness a line needs, by opening day....

Now we will have a rookie, a second year player with no NFL experience at center, a free agent guard who has trouble staying on the field, and a third year tackle who may have to go to the opposite side(and show that it was an injury and not talent was the reason he faltered last year)....and who replaces Beatty? This line was suffering from lack of depth to begin with......

While Beatty was not an elite tackle, he was the steadiest guy in the line, and you knew what to expect from him.....can Flowers do it at RT? Can Schwartz stay on the field at RG? Can Richburg make the transition to an NFL center? Who will be LG? Will Pugh successfully go to the opposite side? I don't know, no one does....but to say this line is "set" is ludicrous.....and what happens if there is another injury?

If Eli gets rid of the ball quicker, it can help the shortcomings of this line.....can this line run block?

It will be interesting to see where these guys finally end up in the line at OTA's and in preseason.....yes injuries happen.....you don't go home because of it.....you play with what you have.....Flaherty has not been able to create a silk purse out of a sow's year.....think this changes?

For those who say Eli is overpaid, he has earned his money with the OL's he has had to work with, these last 5 seasons....

As mentioned, the only silver lining in this, is the time of the injury.....Reese has time to get someone, if the "projects" don't pan out....
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/25/2015 10:26 pm : link
thing about Newhouse is this...I can't see the Giants signing him unless Ben McAdoo said he could help the team. He was with him in Green Bay.
RE: the  
Giants2012 : 5/25/2015 10:32 pm : link
In comment 12300209 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
thing about Newhouse is this...I can't see the Giants signing him unless Ben McAdoo said he could help the team. He was with him in Green Bay.


Hope that's why he was signed.

A lot of big bodies mentioned in this thread. Hope this line is stable.
RE: I don't think it's that complicated  
Milton : 5/25/2015 10:38 pm : link
In comment 12300111 BillT said:
Quote:
Pugh is a 3rd year vet tackle and was a star LOT in college. He seems the obvious choice to be the LT this year. Flowers is a huge strong guy who as the #9 pick should get 1st shot at ROT. I think tackle is pretty well set unless Flowers really falls on his face which I doubt will happen.

Richburg and Schwartz are the center and guard. Leaves one spot open. It's a bit of an open question and you can kill me for this but I think Jerry will be head and shoulders better than anyone else on the roster. And there will be a lot of crow to eat for a lot off BBIers.
This is my thinking as well and I hope we're both right.
RE: Optimism, thy name is Eric....  
Milton : 5/25/2015 10:42 pm : link
Historically speaking, Eric is hardly what I'd call an optimist.
Seems  
Mr. Nickels : 5/25/2015 11:17 pm : link
like we have more depth than I realized.

I really like Cleary.

I still want to bring in Jake Long.
Vin: It might be a year early to write off Herman and Mosley.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/26/2015 5:07 am : link
Quote:
I think that the clock has run out on Kropog, Reynolds, Herman and Mosley. I think we have seen all that these four have to offer.

Kropog and Reynolds? Sure, especially with Kropog on the shelf. Herman and Mosley? Harder to say. They were both really raw coming out of college, and Mosley has lost a lot of time to injuries. They still bear watching in camp, though the clock is clearly ticking: Mosley turns 27 in December; Herman turns 26 in October. With Pugh likely to remain at tackle, Mosley could in the mix at guard. That probably says more about the options than it does about Brandon Mosley. I think he might be decent if the Giants put him at a position and kept him there - if he could just stay healthy.

Bobby Hart is at the other end of the spectrum. He won't even turn 21 until August. I get that he's a full-grown man who started on a championship team. The same was true of Mosley coming out of Auburn. It's still a big jump, with a lot to learn.
with Miton and Bill T on this thread  
aquidneck : 5/26/2015 7:54 am : link
Jerry gets a bad rap here. He'll settle down and be solid this year.
If John Jerry is our only "problem"  
Big Blue '56 : 5/26/2015 8:29 am : link
we are looking pretty good..As Eric said, he's serviceable..He''s NOT going to bring down the overall play of the OL imo..He's not who I would want as a starter, but I'm far from nervous about it..
Keep an eye on Newhouse  
JonC : 5/26/2015 8:53 am : link
this is why he was signed, gents, and if they like him at tackle better than Pugh (which also means less moving around when Beatty returns by leaving Pugh at LG), then the tackles could be Newhouse/Flowers.

I understand the hope Pugh could play LT, but I think it's a reach. I suspect he'd be OK at LT, but they pretty clearly have been waiting for an opportunity to kick him inside and get more size and power in his place.

I doubt Jones will be a factor  
JonC : 5/26/2015 8:55 am : link
If he knocks Reynolds off the roster, it's a win. But, it's a big jump from the CFL to the NFL, they're not equivalent leagues by any means.
RE: I doubt Jones will be a factor  
Victor in CT : 5/26/2015 8:59 am : link
In comment 12300333 JonC said:
Quote:
If he knocks Reynolds off the roster, it's a win. But, it's a big jump from the CFL to the NFL, they're not equivalent leagues by any means.


Agree
It's possible that Flowers at LT and Pugh at LG is the best scenario  
BeerFridge : 5/26/2015 9:08 am : link
for the left side of the line, especially in Pass Protection. Which would leave Schwartz for RG and then the question is RT. It seems that Newhouse is the best candidate for that job. I think the plan was Flowers in that spot with Beatty at LT but that's out the window now. The question here is what happens when Beatty comes back? Move the rookie something like 10 games into his season?

I guess if the Giants are gonna set up for Beatty to plug back in when he returns it might not be newhouse and could be Pugh-Jerry-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers. In this scenariom Jerry goes to the bench and Pugh moves inside in December or whenever Beatty comes back.

No longer a Gilbride (hold the ball a long time) offense  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/26/2015 9:23 am : link
The reason the original plan was probably Beatty at LT, Flowers at RT, was probably as much about Beatty's limitations to excel at any OL position other than LT as anything else.

Now that that decision has been made for us, you stick Flowers at LT and leave him there. Ball should be out before anyone is able to run around him.
My adds  
RetroJint : 5/26/2015 9:29 am : link
1. Jerry can now be considered a "safe"
player. Schwartz is safe solely in terms of his contract. He did look better on the right-side. He was terrible at LG last summer. 2. Jones can beat out Dallas Reynolds, who is like last season's safeties, MLBs & WOLBs. In other words, Jones couldn't possibly be worse. 3. Newhouse is a 2-time loser. Some guys do take on their third go-around. True. But I wouldn't bank on it. Both McAdoo & Spagnuolo took fliers on guys they used to coach. Doesn't mean they have any inside track on a job.
RE: No longer a Gilbride (hold the ball a long time) offense  
Big Blue '56 : 5/26/2015 10:09 am : link
In comment 12300360 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
The reason the original plan was probably Beatty at LT, Flowers at RT, was probably as much about Beatty's limitations to excel at any OL position other than LT as anything else.

Now that that decision has been made for us, you stick Flowers at LT and leave him there. Ball should be out before anyone is able to run around him.


Bob, I wouldn't put Flowers at OLT right now, as long as we have Pugh, going into his 3rd year and an OLT in college, I'd let Flowers cut his teeth at this level on the right side for now..
I'd have more confidence at this point  
Big Blue '56 : 5/26/2015 10:11 am : link
in Pugh protecting Eli's blindside..
Jones  
AcidTest : 5/26/2015 10:23 am : link
beating out Reynolds as others have noted is all we can hope for from him this year. No confidence in Mosley, Herman, Bamiro, Cleary, or Donnelly. No confidence in Jerry or Newhouse either, but they seem safe, especially after Beatty's injury. Sigh.
RE: with Miton and Bill T on this thread  
BillT : 5/26/2015 11:09 am : link
In comment 12300296 said:
Quote:
Jerry gets a bad rap here. He'll settle down and be solid this year.

aquidneck - Not sure what your reading but we are supporting Jerry at least compared to what else they have.
It is May 26  
djstat : 5/26/2015 11:09 am : link
CHILL OUT
Flowers just came off 2 years starting at LT  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/26/2015 11:36 am : link
Pugh just came off starting 2 years at RT. Flipping them now complicates a learning curve for 2 players.

In a West Coast offense the only concern with Flowers at LT is being beaten right off the snap because of being late. Shades of Diehl and Pettigout.

People hopefully realize that the Miami HC had every right to start Seantrel Henderson at LT over Flowers if his supposed ineptitude at LT was such a major concern. Evidently it was not as SH started at RT.
RE: Flowers just came off 2 years starting at LT (In college!)  
BillT : 5/26/2015 11:46 am : link
In comment 12300560 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Pugh just came off starting 2 years at RT. (In the NFL! And he was a LT in college as well)
The NFL is a bit different than college.
RE: Here is the thing with Pugh....  
dguy901 : 5/26/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12300129 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
....he is the only tackle versatile enough to play guard.

If Pugh and Flowers are the tackles, the odds on favorite to win the second guard job with Schwartz is John Jerry and he was wildly inconsistent.

If Pugh kicks inside to guard, a guy like Newhouse, Bamiro or Cleary could challenge for a tackle spot.

Obviously, Pugh looks like the favorite to go to left tackle, with Newhouse and Flowers as other options.

From the outside looking in, you may have overlooked a player going into his 3rd year. I feel very strongly that Herman would have been a starting OG early last season. His progression was halted due to his stupidity, getting caught using PED's which TC was not happy about! I expect him to standout in camp this year and it could be a big plus. It is early to declare deep depth at OT & OG but, I think it will be enviable by the time the season starts. I can see Herman and Bamiro making the final 53, Moseley being released.
RE: RE: Here is the thing with Pugh....  
AcidTest : 5/26/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12300681 dguy901 said:
Quote:
In comment 12300129 Vin_Cuccs said:


Quote:


....he is the only tackle versatile enough to play guard.

If Pugh and Flowers are the tackles, the odds on favorite to win the second guard job with Schwartz is John Jerry and he was wildly inconsistent.

If Pugh kicks inside to guard, a guy like Newhouse, Bamiro or Cleary could challenge for a tackle spot.

Obviously, Pugh looks like the favorite to go to left tackle, with Newhouse and Flowers as other options.


From the outside looking in, you may have overlooked a player going into his 3rd year. I feel very strongly that Herman would have been a starting OG early last season. His progression was halted due to his stupidity, getting caught using PED's which TC was not happy about! I expect him to standout in camp this year and it could be a big plus. It is early to declare deep depth at OT & OG but, I think it will be enviable by the time the season starts. I can see Herman and Bamiro making the final 53, Moseley being released.


Certainly hope you're right.
isn't it time we get a diamond in the rough O lineman  
mirwin : 5/26/2015 3:01 pm : link
we had our WR Cruz, RB andre brown (I guess), TE Donell, Ballard,Pascoe? FB Hynoski DE Wynn, LB Beason since we got him for a 7,, CB Mcbride, and S had to be Stevie Brown in 2012.

But where is our breakthrough O lineman for years now
Bamiro?, Jones?,Cleary?, Donnelly?, Adam Gettis?, Bobby Hart?, IK it's not Eric Herman i mean just cut him already, Will Mosley finally play after what 3 years?.

JUST ONE DECENT LINEMAN
RE: Vin  
Blackbeard : 5/26/2015 6:21 pm : link
In comment 12300121 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
a footnote on your thread.

Cleary was not drafted in the 4th round in 2013.

He was actually an UDFA, and a very desirable one. There was a bidding war right after the draft ended and he went to the Colts with what I recall was over a $22,000 signing bonus-certainly in the Top 10 for signing bonus money for an UDFA.

Unfortunately, he has had little success and has been cut by the Colts, Tampa Bay, the Raiders, and the Bengals.

We are his FIFTH team, so he is a long shot at best.

They must like Cleary's potential, but four teams in two seasons and now a fifth team! Is there a character problem there? Is he too dumb? Locker-room troublemaker?
Cleary  
Blackbeard : 5/26/2015 6:22 pm : link
That last paragraph is my response.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think it's that complicated  
Beer Man : 5/27/2015 10:33 am : link
In comment 12300131 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 12300113 Beer Man said:


Quote:


In comment 12300111 BillT said:


Quote:


Pugh is a 3rd year vet tackle and was a star LOT in college. He seems the obvious choice to be the LT this year. Flowers is a huge strong guy who as the #9 pick should get 1st shot at ROT. I think tackle is pretty well set unless Flowers really falls on his face which I doubt will happen.

Richburg and Schwartz are the center and guard. Leaves one spot open. It's a bit of an open question and you can kill me for this but I think Jerry will be head and shoulders better than anyone else on the roster. And there will be a lot of crow to eat for a lot off BBIers.

Based on what? Jerry is about as milk-toast as they come.



61 overall starts (including 10 as a rookie) and 48 straight starts over the last three years. Got anyone else on this roster with those credentials?

Regarding Jerry, I believe you are in the minority with that opinion. The Giants run game was really held back by his poor blocking last year.
I should point out that although it has happened  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/27/2015 3:18 pm : link
Rarely is a pure RT projection picked #9 in the draft. All that has happened is that Flowers timetable to LT was just accelerated.
One thing about Jerry  
Joey in VA : 5/27/2015 3:26 pm : link
To keep in mind is that he was playing next to the worst OC in the NFL and a RT that was overmatched physically at tackle. He's not great, but he's big and capable if he's surrounded by better guys. The OL has the biggest domino effect when upgrading, middle of the road or so so guys can be very effective when surrounded by better talent. Take our OL during the SB runs, Dave Diehl was not great, not ever but playing along side who he did made him look a lot better than maybe he was from a talent stand point. He worked his tail off, but he was limited athletically but we could get away with it because he was on a line with two dominant run blockers in Snee and McKenzie, a smart agile C in O'Hara and a Tasmanian Devil at LG.

Jerry next to a more comfortable Richburg with Pugh and Flowers holding down the left side is probably solid enough to not be noticed either way. It's not ideal but if he's adequate and the guys around him are better, he will be too.
good points about jerry there  
area junc : 5/27/2015 3:36 pm : link
i like him too. he's a fringe starter who is capable of erasing good players, as he did a.donald. for whatever reason he's been inconsistent his entire career. one week a world beater, the next terrible

saw the same thing w/kevin boothe (and as pointed out d.diehl above). put these guys between good players and they can look damn good
I'm not in panic mode as regards Jerry  
Big Blue '56 : 5/27/2015 3:37 pm : link
.
Isn't the bigger concern Newhouse?  
armstead98 : 5/27/2015 3:52 pm : link
It looks like they're going to sub Jerry out for Schwartz as soon as he's healthy enough. So that means they're planning on Newhouse at RT. Perhaps he's decent but he's definitely an unknown.

If Flowers can hold his own they can look to give Newhouse help but he seems like the concern, not Jerry.
Joey, you just compared John Jerry to  
Jerry's Kids : 5/28/2015 8:02 am : link
Dave Diehl? I agree with your point, but Diehl is a much better player than you think. Played very well at guard and then moved to a sufficient left tackle on a Super winner. If there is a position that can be an island on the O-line it is left tackle.
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