if they win all we are going to hear from ESPN, SAS and Isola is how Phil gave away 2 good players and then still spew how Lebron is taking a less than stellar team to the finals...
For all the ups and downs JR had, he was one of my favorite players. I could care less about what people say about the Knicks at this point, because it's not going to be positive given the season we had anyways.
I can't see the Finals going more than 5, maybe 6 games though. At this point, I don't think the Cavs could beat the Rockets in a 7 game series without Love.
but more for the fans of the team then specifically for Shump/JR. ALthough i have no issues rooting for them, just not sure id go out of my way to root for them if they were on a team i didnt care for like the heat or something.
but all this talk about how New York did him wrong and that he and Shump are getting redemption and his starting from the bottom now he's here comment yesterday..it is just rubbing me the wrong way...
hey guess what if you guys actually played to your potential the Knicks would of made the playoffs...instead you played like dog shit and looked to blame someone else...
will say it's funny how Rondo has been used as some as an example of a potentially "bad" outcome for the Knicks/Mudiay. TRUST ME Phil Jackson would jerk off in his suite at MSG if he were guaranteed his pick at 4 would become Rondo (pre-injury) minus the headcase stuff. Triangle "perfect fit" or not.
will say it's funny how Rondo has been used as some as an example of a potentially "bad" outcome for the Knicks/Mudiay. TRUST ME Phil Jackson would jerk off in his suite at MSG if he were guaranteed his pick at 4 would become Rondo (pre-injury) minus the headcase stuff. Triangle "perfect fit" or not.
Yeah if Mudiay turns into Rondo pre injury knicks got the best player in the draft...Rondo pre injury was a walking triple double...
I also see if the Knicks do get Mudiay or even Russell i see the Knicks running a lot more two man game pick and pop type stuff with melo and PG...
Fisher with Shved and bargnani ran that a lot in games with Galloway and Smith spreading the floor...
I do not think Fisher is afraid to stray away from specific triangle sets...
are the type of players to help when a team is playing well and won't provide much if your team is down in the dumpster. They are specialists. We were expecting specialists to lead a team into the playoffs.
if they win all we are going to hear from ESPN, SAS and Isola is how Phil gave away 2 good players and then still spew how Lebron is taking a less than stellar team to the finals...
eh, ignore all that crap. Any person who's watched JR and Shump at all in their careers knew they had the potential to play well in the playoffs. Hell, they did it here on occasion.
if they win all we are going to hear from ESPN, SAS and Isola is how Phil gave away 2 good players and then still spew how Lebron is taking a less than stellar team to the finals...
eh, ignore all that crap. Any person who's watched JR and Shump at all in their careers knew they had the potential to play well in the playoffs. Hell, they did it here on occasion.
I liked JR and Shump when they were here but all this talk about how New York has done them wrong and Phil did them wrong that they are spewing is just making me root against them...
When the Knicks sucked and i looked for a team to root for in the West during the playoffs i rooted for Denver, I enjoyed watching their style of play with melo, JR, Kmart and Camby...
than painting JR Smith or Iman Shumpert as victims?
only thing worse than that are the seeing the same writers who killed the JR contract when it was signed, then called it untradeable as he played poorly earlier this season.... now killing the Knicks for getting a pile of first round picks back for him and Shump. There's also all of twitter doing the happy dance after the Knicks fell to 4 in the lottery. That all said, there's nothing "weird" about it. It's mostly because of the owner.
i will not be happy if we ended up with Kaminsky from this draft. I just dont see any scenario where he is more then a solid role player and the knicks need to do better then a guy whose best scenario is borderline starter....
They are also killing Phil Jackson any chance they can get...
It is because first they get more hits when they kill the Knicks rather than praise them...
Second Phil doesnt give them access, there are no leaks when he is discussing a trade with teams, it is not known until the trade call is put into the NBA offices...
Notice how every new york writer praises Donnie Walsh and he did an abolute horrible job with the Knicks it is because he gave them access...
all you hear from writers is oh the Knicks need to build the right way...wel they finally tank and they are still killing them...
Donnie Walsh made shit trades trading away Randolph and Crawford and he is praised for it...instead of tanking like he should before 2010 he tried to be competitive and it backfired...
Knicks should of had 2 top picks on this roster going into 2010 instead they Gallo and the other was traded to clear Jared Jefferies contract along with another first round pick...
Ian Begley @IanBegley 35s36 seconds ago
Ian Begley retweeted Baxter Holmes
Looks like Lakers are considering several candidates for the No. 2 pick. Their selection will impact the #Knicks...
Baxter Holmes @BaxterHolmes
Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak said they'd like to work out at least four and as many as 6-8 players that they'd consider drafting No. 2 overall.
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KP, Winslow, WCS and Hezonja would be my bet. They are just doing their due diligence.
Not a chance Sac trades Cousins unless they are going full rebuild mode. Theres no way they go rebuild with their wack owner and with George Karl.
Sacramento doesn't trade a 24 year old superstar for a 28 year old PG and a PF who hit his ceiling. Zach Lowe was pinning the Magic to trade the #5 and Vucevic for Cousins. That seems like a better offer to me.
But I can't see Sacramento going to the rebuild mode when they have Cousins under contract for a few more years. I think they have their eyes set on WCS to improve their 4th worst defense. Dallas, Portland, and LA (if Deandre leaves) could potentially face a rude awakening this offseason.
The strategy was simple: Clear space any way possible to have enough room to sign 2 marquee free agents, of which there were at least 4 during the 2010 offseason. He did that.
The fact that he wasn't able to sign Lebron or Bosh or Wade shouldn't cause his tenure to be seen in a poor light. Hindsight is 20/20.
Even then, it seemed like he was on the way to getting Melo without giving up some of the pieces (Mozgov) that were eventually included when Dolan stepped in.
The strategy was simple: Clear space any way possible to have enough room to sign 2 marquee free agents, of which there were at least 4 during the 2010 offseason. He did that.
The fact that he wasn't able to sign Lebron or Bosh or Wade shouldn't cause his tenure to be seen in a poor light. Hindsight is 20/20.
Even then, it seemed like he was on the way to getting Melo without giving up some of the pieces (Mozgov) that were eventually included when Dolan stepped in.
First off Donnie's moves were absolutely horrendous...
He trade Zach Randolph and Crawford for dog shit when he just could of waited...
He traded a future 1st with JJ for TMac to clear more space...
Then when he traded David Lee he could of traded him straight up for Ellis instead he gets dog shit back....
The Melo trade was not going to happen, Melo was going to be traded to the Nets and he was going to sign the extension that is why he met with Dolan before the All Star game...he told him that if the Knicks did not trade for him then he was going to be traded to the Nets and he was going to sign the extension...Then Dolan stepped in...
Walsh was never getting Melo for the package he was offering...
Walsh did horrible job with the Knicks and there really is no way around it...
Instead of tanking he tried to win as many games as posible and still be competitive...
Zach Randolph, traded from the Clippers - "On July 17, 2009, he was traded to the Memphis Grizzlies in exchange for Quentin Richardson."
Jamal Crawford, traded from Golden State - "They traded Crawford to the Atlanta Hawks for guards Acie Law and Speedy Claxton."
The Jared Jeffries contract was another monstrosity that Walsh had to get rid of.
And I don't think anyone can say definitively what was going to happen with the Melo deal as far as talking to Dolan and signing with the Nets. At least I've never heard anything concrete about it, but I'd be curious to hear if you have.
And again, I doubt Timofey Mozgov at that time was the HUGE HOLDUP behind the Melo deal.
to the Nets or Knicks...he was not going to wait to sign his extension because at the time there was talk of Contract roll backs and he wanted his extension signed before the lockout...
As for Randolph and Crawford Walsh traded them in 2008 he had TWO years to trade them...there was no reason to trade them right away...none..
Not tanking was Walsh's biggest down fall, not to mention there were so many leaks in the front office when he was president everyone knew the Knicks plan...the worst kept secret in the world was the KNicks and Curry...
The closer to that deadline the trade was made, the less chance of a trade. Neither of them showed great promise during their tenure with the Knicks, and since the trades were made for shit players, basically teams had to take on albatross contracts that would more than likely take them out of the Lebron sweepstakes of 2010.
Saying "he had two years to make those trades" doesn't take into account the other party's long term goals.
The closer to that deadline the trade was made, the less chance of a trade. Neither of them showed great promise during their tenure with the Knicks, and since the trades were made for shit players, basically teams had to take on albatross contracts that would more than likely take them out of the Lebron sweepstakes of 2010.
Saying "he had two years to make those trades" doesn't take into account the other party's long term goals.
Randolph and Crawford were both playing well in that first year with D'antoni and the team was actually playing well...they were 12-9 i believe when the trade was made...
Randolph and Crawford werent horrible players with horrible contracts...they were useful players in teh right system as they both have shown...
He rushed into those deals and would have no problem with those deals if the Knicks tanked that season, instead they get the 6th pick and miss out on Griffin, harden and Westbrook...
RE: RE: Is there better proof of some weird anti-knick slant in the media
than painting JR Smith or Iman Shumpert as victims?
only thing worse than that are the seeing the same writers who killed the JR contract when it was signed, then called it untradeable as he played poorly earlier this season.... now killing the Knicks for getting a pile of first round picks back for him and Shump. There's also all of twitter doing the happy dance after the Knicks fell to 4 in the lottery. That all said, there's nothing "weird" about it. It's mostly because of the owner.
Bingo. I'd also add that it's because Frank Isola is a moron and generally a despicable writer.
Randolph and Crawford were both playing well in that first year with D'antoni and the team was actually playing well...they were 12-9 i believe when the trade was made...
Randolph and Crawford werent horrible players with horrible contracts...they were useful players in teh right system as they both have shown...
He rushed into those deals and would have no problem with those deals if the Knicks tanked that season, instead they get the 6th pick and miss out on Griffin, harden and Westbrook...
Donnie came on in April 2008 - he had no control over the Knicks tanking at that point.
Quote:
Donnie Walsh's biggest mistake
nygiants16 : 1:06 pm : link : reply
was thinking someone was coming here with an empty roster...no one was coming here to play with Galinari and Chandler...
even when Stat signed his first comment was about getting Tony Parker and Melo to come to New York...
Shit CP3 made a toast and Melo's wedding saying they were going to build their own big 3 in New York...
Walsh opened up space for two Max contracts in 2010. This is pure hindsight. Not to mention I would guess that there was already Heat collusion prior to that offseason...
Quote:
RE: Donnie Walsh's biggest mistake
EricNY33 : 3:08 pm : link : reply
In comment 12302608 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
was thinking someone was coming here with an empty roster...no one was coming here to play with Galinari and Chandler...
even when Stat signed his first comment was about getting Tony Parker and Melo to come to New York...
Shit CP3 made a toast and Melo's wedding saying they were going to build their own big 3 in New York...
The third part was the one that we should all lament. Picking up Billups' option only to amnesty him 5 months later was beyond ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure that Billups' option either had to be picked up for something like $13M, or the Knicks would have had to pay him ~$5M to leave the team. That $5M would have stopped them from signing Tyson Chandler.
I'm not a Walsh apologist, nor do I think he did a spectacular job. But it seems pretty clear that his job was to clear space for 2010 in any way possible to land free agents. And given Dolan's penchant for star players, that probably even further tied Walsh's hands.
From 1990 - 2007, Walsh's Pacers made the playoffs 16 of 17 times. He was responsible for drafting Reggie Miller over Steve Alford, a huge hometown favorite from Indiana University.
He drafted Jordan Hill, which was a shit move, yes. But even now, Jordan Hill has found a place in the league.
Moreover, the argument has partially been "Walsh's biggest fault was not tanking that season to try and get Curry or someone else." Yet earlier, you suggest he should have waited to trade both Crawford and Randolph to get better value. He got rid of players who could be considered good players for crap.
For fucks sake, he had Chris Duhon as the starting PG. Look at the roster for that season. The top 7 Knicks in games played, in order, were:
Wilson Chandler
David Lee
Chris Duhon
Nate Robinson
Quentin Richardson
Al Harrington
Jared Jeffries
How many times under Dolan are we going to blame the GM for shit going poorly? Especially given that the owner is known for being a meddling assclown?
Was it Dolan fault when he traded Lee for dog shit?
Was it Dolan fault when he hired dantoni?
Was it Dolan fault when he traded a first round pick with jj?
It is not hindsight to say he did a shit job...forget about the randolph and Crawford trades....everything he did was terrible
I would argue his best trade was for melo and like you said he didn't want to make the trade
He panicked and gave Stoudemire a guaranteed contract when no one was going to...
Face it he did a horrible job
Stoudemire was a star, regardless of the knee problems. And again, Walsh opened up enough money for two max players (which was the plan) and made a pitch to Lebron. He didn't get him to go along with Amare, so they were forced to go in a different direction.
Traded Lee for dogshit? Surely you understand the concept behind a sign and trade, no?
D'Antoni had a great record with the Suns. Again, hindsight.
Jared Jeffries was ANOTHER albatross contract that went through 2010, which he unloaded with Jordan Hill to again, clear space for 2010 FA.
And I didn't say he wasn't going to do the Melo trade. But you really think Timofey Mozgov, who at that time was only known for being posterized by Blake Griffin, was the make or break piece of the puzzle? Come on man. It's a negotiation. You try to get the best deal possible. In the end, if Denver wouldn't budge from what ended up being the final deal, I think Walsh still would have made it. But that's neglecting Dolan stepping in and saying "I WANT THIS DONE NOW."
If you want to argue about horrible Knicks GMs, it's a crapshoot between Isiah and Layden. Donnie Walsh might as well have been Theo Epstein compared to those two.
To somehow shift blame to the GM when Dolan's starfucker strategy has been well known for years is disingenuous. Walsh was hired to clear cap space for 2010, by any means necessary. He did that. You can say he did a shit job all you want, but as I mentioned - starting from 1990, his Pacers were in the playoffs 16 of the 17 years that he was GM. Since Dolan took over in 1999 or whatever it was, the Knicks have been crap for pretty much its entirety. David Stern was even quoted as saying that the Knicks operations were "not an intelligent model of team management."
$11M/yr through the summer of 2013. David Lee averaged 13.3M/yr following the signing of that contract. Instead of doing that, they got back Randolph, who at that time showed promise, and Turiaf, who was a viable bench player.
This also gave them room to sign Ray Felton for a reasonable 7M/yr, which at that time was considered a good deal.
#2 He gets pushed around a LOT by smaller players. For examples he was guarded by Nigel Hayes(6-5) and Pat Connughton(6-5) in his last two games. Watch the tape--players move him easily--thast why he is a sub par rebounder.
#3 His effort is ay 70% not even close to 110% you need to watch video to understand what Im talking about. He is constantly standing around on offense he rarely crashes the boards if the ball is on the other side he slows down.. I could go on.
#4 His biggest game of his life--as a junior 2 points 5 rebounds AWFUL EFFORT in 33 minutes.
#5 His consistency through his career--SPOTTY--that's why you see so many games where h has 2 -4-6 points and 4-5 rebounds even with near 30 MPG.
#6 While he does a LOT of nice things defensively cutting gaps getting out on the roll or strong side perimeter man he flubs by taking plays off losing poor defensive rebounding and lackluster effort.(again effort)
#7 The opposing team always used their worst defender on WCS--he panics with the ball hes indecisive he cant shoot cant handle poor passer.
When he has to handle bigger players--hes going to have loads of problems. His base is weak hes top heavy and off balanced. His physique really is tapped out as well at nearly 22. He wont be 265 anytime soon.
Because of his liability on offense--this is a guy who needs to play with 125% effort all the time. You see some really nice defensive plays that stand out but if you really watch him--those plays are few and far between. You remember then because they are "highlight" type stuff but the nuances the strength the effort the 110 all out push is not there with this player.
I don't watch the Tournament. I know nothing about any of these guys. I did read in SI a piece on Frank Kaminsky and heard he had an impact during the Tournament. Is he a viable option for the Knicks? Is 4 way to high for him?
I don't watch the Tournament. I know nothing about any of these guys. I did read in SI a piece on Frank Kaminsky and heard he had an impact during the Tournament. Is he a viable option for the Knicks? Is 4 way to high for him?
4 is too high/ Kaminsky figures to be a very good role player. Almost zero "star" upside and with no pick in 2016 the Knicks need to shoot higher
Turner is a better shot blocker. He's got the beginnings of a good outside shot. He has a very strong well-rounded game - much like Towns.
I like Turner, but he needs alot of development. Very weak lower body. A big knock on him is that he shriveled in conference play. His ceiling is higher than WCS's though he is not a great athlete and it will take many years to acclimate him into the league.
I can't see the Finals going more than 5, maybe 6 games though. At this point, I don't think the Cavs could beat the Rockets in a 7 game series without Love.
hey guess what if you guys actually played to your potential the Knicks would of made the playoffs...instead you played like dog shit and looked to blame someone else...
Yeah if Mudiay turns into Rondo pre injury knicks got the best player in the draft...Rondo pre injury was a walking triple double...
I also see if the Knicks do get Mudiay or even Russell i see the Knicks running a lot more two man game pick and pop type stuff with melo and PG...
Fisher with Shved and bargnani ran that a lot in games with Galloway and Smith spreading the floor...
I do not think Fisher is afraid to stray away from specific triangle sets...
Kupchak mentioned lottery teams have already called looking to trade up into the 2 spot....
There is still some talk that Flip may trade down and take Porzingis...
eh, ignore all that crap. Any person who's watched JR and Shump at all in their careers knew they had the potential to play well in the playoffs. Hell, they did it here on occasion.
Quote:
if they win all we are going to hear from ESPN, SAS and Isola is how Phil gave away 2 good players and then still spew how Lebron is taking a less than stellar team to the finals...
eh, ignore all that crap. Any person who's watched JR and Shump at all in their careers knew they had the potential to play well in the playoffs. Hell, they did it here on occasion.
I liked JR and Shump when they were here but all this talk about how New York has done them wrong and Phil did them wrong that they are spewing is just making me root against them...
When the Knicks sucked and i looked for a team to root for in the West during the playoffs i rooted for Denver, I enjoyed watching their style of play with melo, JR, Kmart and Camby...
3 way trade?
cousins to Knicks
7 Lawson Faried and THJR to Kings
4 and calderon to Denver
Denver gets 4
Knicks trade 4 but get rid of Calderon and THJR and add a superstar in Cousins...
Even with adding Cousins Knicks would still have 25 million to spend with this trade
only thing worse than that are the seeing the same writers who killed the JR contract when it was signed, then called it untradeable as he played poorly earlier this season.... now killing the Knicks for getting a pile of first round picks back for him and Shump. There's also all of twitter doing the happy dance after the Knicks fell to 4 in the lottery. That all said, there's nothing "weird" about it. It's mostly because of the owner.
<Hides from Jon>
Link - ( New Window )
It is because first they get more hits when they kill the Knicks rather than praise them...
Second Phil doesnt give them access, there are no leaks when he is discussing a trade with teams, it is not known until the trade call is put into the NBA offices...
Notice how every new york writer praises Donnie Walsh and he did an abolute horrible job with the Knicks it is because he gave them access...
all you hear from writers is oh the Knicks need to build the right way...wel they finally tank and they are still killing them...
Donnie Walsh made shit trades trading away Randolph and Crawford and he is praised for it...instead of tanking like he should before 2010 he tried to be competitive and it backfired...
Knicks should of had 2 top picks on this roster going into 2010 instead they Gallo and the other was traded to clear Jared Jefferies contract along with another first round pick...
Ian Begley retweeted Baxter Holmes
Looks like Lakers are considering several candidates for the No. 2 pick. Their selection will impact the #Knicks...
Baxter Holmes @BaxterHolmes
Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak said they'd like to work out at least four and as many as 6-8 players that they'd consider drafting No. 2 overall.
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KP, Winslow, WCS and Hezonja would be my bet. They are just doing their due diligence.
Not a chance Sac trades Cousins unless they are going full rebuild mode. Theres no way they go rebuild with their wack owner and with George Karl.
Sacramento doesn't trade a 24 year old superstar for a 28 year old PG and a PF who hit his ceiling. Zach Lowe was pinning the Magic to trade the #5 and Vucevic for Cousins. That seems like a better offer to me.
But I can't see Sacramento going to the rebuild mode when they have Cousins under contract for a few more years. I think they have their eyes set on WCS to improve their 4th worst defense. Dallas, Portland, and LA (if Deandre leaves) could potentially face a rude awakening this offseason.
7th overall Lawson faried and THJR is a pretty good package for Cousins...
The strategy was simple: Clear space any way possible to have enough room to sign 2 marquee free agents, of which there were at least 4 during the 2010 offseason. He did that.
The fact that he wasn't able to sign Lebron or Bosh or Wade shouldn't cause his tenure to be seen in a poor light. Hindsight is 20/20.
Even then, it seemed like he was on the way to getting Melo without giving up some of the pieces (Mozgov) that were eventually included when Dolan stepped in.
The strategy was simple: Clear space any way possible to have enough room to sign 2 marquee free agents, of which there were at least 4 during the 2010 offseason. He did that.
The fact that he wasn't able to sign Lebron or Bosh or Wade shouldn't cause his tenure to be seen in a poor light. Hindsight is 20/20.
Even then, it seemed like he was on the way to getting Melo without giving up some of the pieces (Mozgov) that were eventually included when Dolan stepped in.
First off Donnie's moves were absolutely horrendous...
He trade Zach Randolph and Crawford for dog shit when he just could of waited...
He traded a future 1st with JJ for TMac to clear more space...
Then when he traded David Lee he could of traded him straight up for Ellis instead he gets dog shit back....
The Melo trade was not going to happen, Melo was going to be traded to the Nets and he was going to sign the extension that is why he met with Dolan before the All Star game...he told him that if the Knicks did not trade for him then he was going to be traded to the Nets and he was going to sign the extension...Then Dolan stepped in...
Walsh was never getting Melo for the package he was offering...
Walsh did horrible job with the Knicks and there really is no way around it...
Instead of tanking he tried to win as many games as posible and still be competitive...
Zach Randolph, traded from the Clippers - "On July 17, 2009, he was traded to the Memphis Grizzlies in exchange for Quentin Richardson."
Jamal Crawford, traded from Golden State - "They traded Crawford to the Atlanta Hawks for guards Acie Law and Speedy Claxton."
The Jared Jeffries contract was another monstrosity that Walsh had to get rid of.
And I don't think anyone can say definitively what was going to happen with the Melo deal as far as talking to Dolan and signing with the Nets. At least I've never heard anything concrete about it, but I'd be curious to hear if you have.
And again, I doubt Timofey Mozgov at that time was the HUGE HOLDUP behind the Melo deal.
As for Randolph and Crawford Walsh traded them in 2008 he had TWO years to trade them...there was no reason to trade them right away...none..
Not tanking was Walsh's biggest down fall, not to mention there were so many leaks in the front office when he was president everyone knew the Knicks plan...the worst kept secret in the world was the KNicks and Curry...
Saying "he had two years to make those trades" doesn't take into account the other party's long term goals.
Saying "he had two years to make those trades" doesn't take into account the other party's long term goals.
Randolph and Crawford were both playing well in that first year with D'antoni and the team was actually playing well...they were 12-9 i believe when the trade was made...
Randolph and Crawford werent horrible players with horrible contracts...they were useful players in teh right system as they both have shown...
He rushed into those deals and would have no problem with those deals if the Knicks tanked that season, instead they get the 6th pick and miss out on Griffin, harden and Westbrook...
Quote:
than painting JR Smith or Iman Shumpert as victims?
only thing worse than that are the seeing the same writers who killed the JR contract when it was signed, then called it untradeable as he played poorly earlier this season.... now killing the Knicks for getting a pile of first round picks back for him and Shump. There's also all of twitter doing the happy dance after the Knicks fell to 4 in the lottery. That all said, there's nothing "weird" about it. It's mostly because of the owner.
Bingo. I'd also add that it's because Frank Isola is a moron and generally a despicable writer.
even when Stat signed his first comment was about getting Tony Parker and Melo to come to New York...
Shit CP3 made a toast and Melo's wedding saying they were going to build their own big 3 in New York...
People jsu tlike to change history to fit their agenda...
even when Stat signed his first comment was about getting Tony Parker and Melo to come to New York...
Shit CP3 made a toast and Melo's wedding saying they were going to build their own big 3 in New York...
The third part was the one that we should all lament. Picking up Billups' option only to amnesty him 5 months later was beyond ridiculous.
Randolph and Crawford were both playing well in that first year with D'antoni and the team was actually playing well...they were 12-9 i believe when the trade was made...
Randolph and Crawford werent horrible players with horrible contracts...they were useful players in teh right system as they both have shown...
He rushed into those deals and would have no problem with those deals if the Knicks tanked that season, instead they get the 6th pick and miss out on Griffin, harden and Westbrook...
Donnie came on in April 2008 - he had no control over the Knicks tanking at that point.
nygiants16 : 1:06 pm : link : reply
was thinking someone was coming here with an empty roster...no one was coming here to play with Galinari and Chandler...
even when Stat signed his first comment was about getting Tony Parker and Melo to come to New York...
Shit CP3 made a toast and Melo's wedding saying they were going to build their own big 3 in New York...
Walsh opened up space for two Max contracts in 2010. This is pure hindsight. Not to mention I would guess that there was already Heat collusion prior to that offseason...
EricNY33 : 3:08 pm : link : reply
In comment 12302608 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
was thinking someone was coming here with an empty roster...no one was coming here to play with Galinari and Chandler...
even when Stat signed his first comment was about getting Tony Parker and Melo to come to New York...
Shit CP3 made a toast and Melo's wedding saying they were going to build their own big 3 in New York...
The third part was the one that we should all lament. Picking up Billups' option only to amnesty him 5 months later was beyond ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure that Billups' option either had to be picked up for something like $13M, or the Knicks would have had to pay him ~$5M to leave the team. That $5M would have stopped them from signing Tyson Chandler.
I'm not a Walsh apologist, nor do I think he did a spectacular job. But it seems pretty clear that his job was to clear space for 2010 in any way possible to land free agents. And given Dolan's penchant for star players, that probably even further tied Walsh's hands.
From 1990 - 2007, Walsh's Pacers made the playoffs 16 of 17 times. He was responsible for drafting Reggie Miller over Steve Alford, a huge hometown favorite from Indiana University.
He drafted Jordan Hill, which was a shit move, yes. But even now, Jordan Hill has found a place in the league.
Moreover, the argument has partially been "Walsh's biggest fault was not tanking that season to try and get Curry or someone else." Yet earlier, you suggest he should have waited to trade both Crawford and Randolph to get better value. He got rid of players who could be considered good players for crap.
For fucks sake, he had Chris Duhon as the starting PG. Look at the roster for that season. The top 7 Knicks in games played, in order, were:
Wilson Chandler
David Lee
Chris Duhon
Nate Robinson
Quentin Richardson
Al Harrington
Jared Jeffries
How many times under Dolan are we going to blame the GM for shit going poorly? Especially given that the owner is known for being a meddling assclown?
Was it Dolan fault when he traded Lee for dog shit?
Was it Dolan fault when he hired dantoni?
Was it Dolan fault when he traded a first round pick with jj?
It is not hindsight to say he did a shit job...forget about the randolph and Crawford trades....everything he did was terrible
I would argue his best trade was for melo and like you said he didn't want to make the trade
He panicked and gave Stoudemire a guaranteed contract when no one was going to...
Face it he did a horrible job
Added shumpert to get rid of jr for nothing
And hired fisher who looks lost.
So he's on the right track- with his only asset being the one Donny acquired
Was it Dolan fault when he traded Lee for dog shit?
Was it Dolan fault when he hired dantoni?
Was it Dolan fault when he traded a first round pick with jj?
It is not hindsight to say he did a shit job...forget about the randolph and Crawford trades....everything he did was terrible
I would argue his best trade was for melo and like you said he didn't want to make the trade
He panicked and gave Stoudemire a guaranteed contract when no one was going to...
Face it he did a horrible job
Stoudemire was a star, regardless of the knee problems. And again, Walsh opened up enough money for two max players (which was the plan) and made a pitch to Lebron. He didn't get him to go along with Amare, so they were forced to go in a different direction.
Traded Lee for dogshit? Surely you understand the concept behind a sign and trade, no?
D'Antoni had a great record with the Suns. Again, hindsight.
Jared Jeffries was ANOTHER albatross contract that went through 2010, which he unloaded with Jordan Hill to again, clear space for 2010 FA.
And I didn't say he wasn't going to do the Melo trade. But you really think Timofey Mozgov, who at that time was only known for being posterized by Blake Griffin, was the make or break piece of the puzzle? Come on man. It's a negotiation. You try to get the best deal possible. In the end, if Denver wouldn't budge from what ended up being the final deal, I think Walsh still would have made it. But that's neglecting Dolan stepping in and saying "I WANT THIS DONE NOW."
If you want to argue about horrible Knicks GMs, it's a crapshoot between Isiah and Layden. Donnie Walsh might as well have been Theo Epstein compared to those two.
To somehow shift blame to the GM when Dolan's starfucker strategy has been well known for years is disingenuous. Walsh was hired to clear cap space for 2010, by any means necessary. He did that. You can say he did a shit job all you want, but as I mentioned - starting from 1990, his Pacers were in the playoffs 16 of the 17 years that he was GM. Since Dolan took over in 1999 or whatever it was, the Knicks have been crap for pretty much its entirety. David Stern was even quoted as saying that the Knicks operations were "not an intelligent model of team management."
Stoudemire may have been a star but he was not getting 5 years from anyone....everyone knew his knees were about to explode
Walsh was offered Ellis for Lee and turned it down
This also gave them room to sign Ray Felton for a reasonable 7M/yr, which at that time was considered a good deal.
Here is the gig with WCS.
#1 He is a player who loses focus A LOT
#2 He gets pushed around a LOT by smaller players. For examples he was guarded by Nigel Hayes(6-5) and Pat Connughton(6-5) in his last two games. Watch the tape--players move him easily--thast why he is a sub par rebounder.
#3 His effort is ay 70% not even close to 110% you need to watch video to understand what Im talking about. He is constantly standing around on offense he rarely crashes the boards if the ball is on the other side he slows down.. I could go on.
#4 His biggest game of his life--as a junior 2 points 5 rebounds AWFUL EFFORT in 33 minutes.
#5 His consistency through his career--SPOTTY--that's why you see so many games where h has 2 -4-6 points and 4-5 rebounds even with near 30 MPG.
#6 While he does a LOT of nice things defensively cutting gaps getting out on the roll or strong side perimeter man he flubs by taking plays off losing poor defensive rebounding and lackluster effort.(again effort)
#7 The opposing team always used their worst defender on WCS--he panics with the ball hes indecisive he cant shoot cant handle poor passer.
When he has to handle bigger players--hes going to have loads of problems. His base is weak hes top heavy and off balanced. His physique really is tapped out as well at nearly 22. He wont be 265 anytime soon.
Because of his liability on offense--this is a guy who needs to play with 125% effort all the time. You see some really nice defensive plays that stand out but if you really watch him--those plays are few and far between. You remember then because they are "highlight" type stuff but the nuances the strength the effort the 110 all out push is not there with this player.
4 is too high/ Kaminsky figures to be a very good role player. Almost zero "star" upside and with no pick in 2016 the Knicks need to shoot higher
I like Turner, but he needs alot of development. Very weak lower body. A big knock on him is that he shriveled in conference play. His ceiling is higher than WCS's though he is not a great athlete and it will take many years to acclimate him into the league.