Today...if TC walked away...is he a hall of famer?

4 championship games, 2 SB wins

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the anti-NY sentiment among voters. He could use a strong finish, as could Eli.

However, it's clear that the process requires you to be buddies with the media to a degree. If you're not well-liked by the voters, your case had better be airtight, and I don't think Coughlin is quite airtight yet.

You have to be out of the game for a while before you become eligible. Might be shorter for coaches, but the next vote isn't until after the season. No way possible way for him to get in today.

he's a clear-cut HOF'er.

Jimmy Johnson, Tom Flores and George Seifert all have two and are not in.

In comment 12300836 Hades07 said:

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You have to be out of the game for a while before you become eligible. Might be shorter for coaches, but the next vote isn't until after the season. No way possible way for him to get in today.

Hades, I believe that implicit in the OP is that 5 years have passed, but there's no more body of work beyond 2014

In comment 12300836 Hades07 said:

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You have to be out of the game for a while before you become eligible. Might be shorter for coaches, but the next vote isn't until after the season. No way possible way for him to get in today.

Me thinks your sort of missing the point here entirely.

Anyway, to answer the OP... I'd be shocked if he didn't get in by his 2nd opportunity. He built Jacksonville into a competitor quicker than anyone has ever done so with an expansion team. Then he won a pair of Super Bowls. He has everything. Rings, longevity, respect, and track records with multiple teams.

Absolutely a Hall of Famer.

In comment 12300841 bceagle05 said:

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Jimmy Johnson, Tom Flores and George Seifert all have two and are not in.

They didn't go to FOUR championship games

But I don't think he's the slam dunk candidate people here believe him to be.

In comment 12300846 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12300841 bceagle05 said: Quote: Jimmy Johnson, Tom Flores and George Seifert all have two and are not in. They didn't go to FOUR championship games

Oh, you weren't addressing my post..Carry on..:)

Seifert coached in five NFC title games. He was 2-3 in them, with two losses to the Cowboys and one, of course, to the Giants.

In comment 12300847 Greg from LI said:

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But I don't think he's the slam dunk candidate people here believe him to be.

Greg, I hear you, but I think he is..Just not necessarily a slam dunk first ballot, imo..Perhaps he will be

In comment 12300849 Greg from LI said:

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Seifert coached in five NFC title games. He was 2-3 in them, with two losses to the Cowboys and one, of course, to the Giants.

Ok murderer, my bad..

:)

In comment 12300848 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12300846 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 12300841 bceagle05 said: Quote: Jimmy Johnson, Tom Flores and George Seifert all have two and are not in. They didn't go to FOUR championship games Oh, you weren't addressing my post..Carry on..:)

Haha no problem. Quite frankly, Marv Levy should've opened the door to all the two-time Super Bowl winners. With fairly even amounts of talent, Jimmy Johnson and Tom Coughlin could coach the pants off Marv Levy.

is an interesting case. With the Niners, he coached 8 years, made the playoffs 7 times, won the SB twice and lost in the Championship game 3 times.

But on the flipside, he was always coaching under the impression he rode Walsh's coat tails. Frankly, that's a hard argument to support when a guy is somewhere 8 years.

But, it didn't help that he's pretty much a football recluse these days and his stint in Carolina was disasterous.

. People out west feel he should have won more Super Bowls.

As he bitterly says himself at the end of the story I just linked in the 1990 thread, "Bill Parcells goes to the Hall of Fame, and I go hunting."

In comment 12300861 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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is an interesting case. With the Niners, he coached 8 years, made the playoffs 7 times, won the SB twice and lost in the Championship game 3 times. But on the flipside, he was always coaching under the impression he rode Walsh's coat tails. Frankly, that's a hard argument to support when a guy is somewhere 8 years. But, it didn't help that he's pretty much a football recluse these days and his stint in Carolina was disasterous.

That said, I'd have no problem with him being in a realistic mix for the HOF

....is it based on what you could have done, should have done, or DID do. I'd vote for TC, but I am a Giants fan, so my opinion is skewed a bit.

Mike Shanahan then? he has 2 SBs.

...if he did walk away today, I'm not sure he would get a lot of support from the Giants fans. Parcells wasn't the most popular guy when he surprised everyone and walked away from here.

In comment 12300886 DC Gmen Fan said:

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Mike Shanahan then? he has 2 SBs.

I wouldn't..He effectively did shit after Elway left in '98..Actually, I think Flores was a better coach..He never received the press he should have, imo

pretty sure the media has warmed up to him over the last several years.

IMO, no doubt, but I can't deny a little hometown bias

It's not just 2 Super Bowl titles though. It's beating Brady and Belichik in the Super Bowl twice. That gets extra credit.

to validate candidacy of those guys who had a short run of success one place and then shit the bed elsewhere.

Shanahan falls into that camp, IMO.

I think it helps Coughlin that the Pats added a fourth ring now, too, so people can't just say they were declining after 2004 or Spygate or whatever.

Is a pretty decent comparison actually. 2 Super Bowls, 3 conference title games for Johnson, 4 for Coughlin. And although not an expansion team, obviously, Johnson had little talent and dumped most of the Cowboys roster and had to build it up from scratch. Coughlin built the Jaguars from scratch and had them in the AFC Championship in year two, beating the one seed on the road.

Johnson is not in. One thing I'd say is a major difference though, is Johnson did not have the level of success Coughlin had in his second NFL job. Coughlin has succeeded tremendously with the Giants, Johnson did not with the Dolphins.

I think Coughlin is a hall of famer. That would be my vote. It's going to be close though. I don't doubt that there will be plenty who vote, who won't vote for him for whatever reason.

I think Coughlin is likely and has a better shot than Eli.

Coughlin was on SB winning staff (SB XXV Giants) and his time at Jacksonville has to count in his favor.

We had the debate after the SBXLII victory and most thought he'd need a second ring. He is very close if not over the hump. J. Johnson, Flores and Seifert not in does lower my expectations though.

I think Coughlin is admired and respected by all who work with him including the media. The man is a straight shooter who is the epitome of the word integrity. I think there are media who do not like the way he deals (or dealt) with them but that's different than saying they dislike him because he's dishonest or sleazy, something that fits the bill with some other coaches.

It's only 2 conference title games for Johnson. Also of course Coughlin's Jaguars team humiliated Johnson's Dolphins team in the playoffs. Wasn't it like 65-7 or something like that. I forgot to add that part when comparing the two.

wins as a HC I'd consider the ring he won in 1990 with the Giants as WR coach.

I'd do this for all candidates.

When people talk Belichick he gets consideration for the rings he has as a DC. Heck he had a boat named 5 rings (3 as a head coach, 2 as a DC) - which he might rename this off-season.

The deciding factor for enshrinement (if it is somehow a close vote), could be the 18-0 Pats, who many in the media crowned the best of all time (or would have been were it not for us in XLII) ..The same media perhaps, who will be voting..

two SB's over the very best franchise during his regime of the Giants...........

Plus, what he did with an expansion franchise in JAX.

And by all accounts, TC is leader.

Not much more you can ask from a head coach. Plus he's up there in wins.

I don't know why anyone keeps bringing it up.

In comment 12300841 bceagle05 said:

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Jimmy Johnson, Tom Flores and George Seifert all have two and are not in.

I think longevity comes into play for all these cases.

And ith Seifert....right or wrong, I think most see it as Bill Walsh's teams.

Right or wrong, it's Al Davis' Raiders, no doubt.

JJ did a masterful job of building the Cowboys.....but didn't even coach 10 years.

As pointed out, 2 SBs and leading am expansion franchise to a championship game. Clearly he's very capable.

But is there anything else? A leadership style, a character trait that elevates him above a very capable coach?

He took an expansion team to the championship game in his 2nd year, whether you or anyone else believe his expansion draft was the best ever given to an expansion HC

In comment 12300931 Greg from LI said:

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I don't know why anyone keeps bringing it up.

LOL...well I think you're flat out wrong.

It will be surely brought up the day he goes in.

The fact that the underdog Giants went 2-0 in Super Bowls against the best team of the era, with one of the best coaches of all time, means that he'll get in. If he doesn't get in before Belichick, BB will lobby hard for TC out of respect.

against him for the lack of consistent success, and that the 2 SBs in NY were blips and 'lucky'(twice), and forget his Jville success.
He needs another SB win, with no SB loses, and walk away with the Giants arrow up.
Same arguments vs Eli.

season. The NFL bent the rules for those franchises because they wanted them to be competitive quickly.

Jacksonville won nothing, not even an AFC title game, and went 7-9/6-10/6-10 in Coughlin's last three seasons. Completely irrelevent.

In comment 12300931 Greg from LI said:

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I don't know why anyone keeps bringing it up.

I have no idea why you'd believe that. The hall of fame voters certainly consider a player or a coach's entire body of work.

In comment 12300841 bceagle05 said:

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Jimmy Johnson, Tom Flores and George Seifert all have two and are not in.

That's true. Although Coughlin has a lot more wins than those guys.

Not sure if Coughlin makes it.

HOF's are generally filled with compilers. TC has compiled a lot of wins to go along with the SB's and other accolades.

Part of that compilation is taking an expansion team to a championship game and the wins he amassed there.

It most certainly will matter.

marv levy and bud grant are in they lost all super bowls they were in.

And you have to figure if he retired right now... he'd probably get in but not right away.

If he wins another SB title here? 1st ballot.

To a certain extent, sure, but ultimately his time with the Giants is what will get him in or not. No one is going to say "Well, you know, I was on the fence regarding his tenure in NY with the two championships, but man, what he did in Jacksonville really put him over the top!" Won't happen.

If he goes out with a winning program it will enhance his chances, but if he goes out with 3 or 4 losing seasons in a row it will hurt his chances.

Super Bowl winning coaches are often held back by struggles at other stops. Hell, even Belichick gets knocked for his Cleveland stint.