It's literally the worst stat at projecting athletic performance imo. Beatty may not be 'weak' but he's soft. It's a problem we had at several spots on the line last season and frankly in recent years.
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
RE: Bench press doesn't denote play strength or demeanor on the field
It's literally the worst stat at projecting athletic performance imo. Beatty may not be 'weak' but he's soft. It's a problem we had at several spots on the line last season and frankly in recent years.
Bench press <> strength.
ok, another lesson learned on BBI. I thought the exercise was invented as a test of exactly that (strength).
The quote the poster made was that Beatty was "physically weak" so whatever point you think you're making is against a straw man.
If you read my post it addressed his style of play but was meant to refute the "physically weak" comment.
That could be a mean combo on the left with some chemistry and time playing together. Richburg, Pugh, Flowers could be our C to LT for a long long time, that would be a huge building block for this team.
Agree on Beatty to RT unless Flowers tanks, but I don't see that happening. Newhouse? Not sure what happened to him but early on in GB he was a pretty solid LT.
Maybe 'soft' isn't the proper description for Beatty
Pugh decision to play guard was made before Will Beatty injury. It's to take advantage of unique athlete #GiantsOTA
Yes, it was. But, I am happy the giants decided to stick with it. There were thoughts the injury would force them to move Pugh back to OT (left or right). this shows some conviction and could help cement 3/5 of the OL for at least a few years.
Strength lifting an object doesn't corrrelate to performance
The myriad factors involving moving bodies and leverage make the bench press a very limited tool for assessing the functional power of a player. Beatty could BP a car for all I care. The fact is he isn't a 'powerful' player on Sundays. he's a finesse guy that doesn't have a killer instinct. He's a known quality at this point.
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
Besides knowledge of OL play, more important is how many people really watch enough of the OL? For that matter, how many people saw more than a game or two of Newhouse with the Bengals? And were actually paying attention to the OL?
RE: Strength lifting an object doesn't corrrelate to performance
The myriad factors involving moving bodies and leverage make the bench press a very limited tool for assessing the functional power of a player. Beatty could BP a car for all I care. The fact is he isn't a 'powerful' player on Sundays. he's a finesse guy that doesn't have a killer instinct. He's a known quality at this point.
...and a youngish player they may believe they can work with and develop. To have him starting wasn't the plan and isn't ideal. Fans have every right to question his ability as he's failed the last couple of seasons to perform well on the field. That isn't a myth it's a fact. You don't bounce from city to city if you are playing well.
People are basing their opinions on Newhouse on the facts
that he lost a starting job in Green Bay, and also couldn't get one in Cincy. He's not a well regarded player.
He could turn around and have a Sean Locklear type season, or he could continue being John Jerry. Nobody knows. The fact remains he hasn't been good enough to play as a starter for a pair of teams.
if the Giants really did want Flowers at LT, the Beatty injury could be somewhat of a blessing (although if someone else gets hurt, it could get ugly).
If the plan was to move Pugh to LG, then stick with the plan. Flowers was Beatty's heir apparent anyway, but he'll just have to grow up a little faster. They've got three months to get the rookie up to speed, and three months to get Pugh used to playing LG next to the big kid...and next to Richburg at Center, too.
Schwartz should start at RG, but I hope he feels some heat from Jerry, Mosley, and Hart. As for RT, I feel better about Newhouse there than if he was at LT, but I hope he feels some heat, too. It would be a blessing if one of the UDFA OTs steps up.
on the right side. Neither player is a physically dominating run blocker. I think Beatty is a competent OT and the Giants are better off with him than without him, but his game is more that of a technician type, he is not a mauler. Jerry is weak inside, he gets pushed around, so yes, I think as a duo they would be physically weak on the right side. Get Jerry off the field (Schwartz, maybe Jones?) and it's not as big an issue.
'Beatty is not physically weak
pjcas18 : 1:05 pm : link : reply
people need to learn more before posting.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.'
Your words linking BP results to refute people maligning the nature of Beatty's play. No? If not then why bother quoting BP stats at all?
Being physically weak is false, being a finesse player is probably true. I don't know how to explain it any differently if you don't understand the difference between physical strength and playing with aggression. they are mutually exclusive.
'i think it is safe to assume ...
Floyd The Barber : 1:49 pm : link : reply
that the missing 5th starting olinemen isn't even on the roster ...'
95%+ of starting player upgrades in the NFL come from Free Agency, the Draft and internal player development. It's very likely the starting 5 OL are on the current roster
about Herman, if he were in the mix he would have at least benn on the second string! Oh well, I guess that is why I don't get paid to evaluate NFL talent!
would probably be the worst Right-Side to an OL in the NFL. Damn, we really need Schwartz to earn that money this year.
Hopefully Newhouse surprised. He has looked awful pretty much every time I've seen him, I was ok with him as depth but I'm scared shitless for Eli that he's a starter now.
'as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good'
The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
Oh, don't you know? He knows more then the Giant's staff and the NFL that had him as the best available guard of the free agency period. I wonder if he has a hidden agenda?
John Jerry rotated with Schwartz at right guard throughout the day. Behind them on the second team were:
Michael Bamiro-Brandon Mosley-Dallas Reynolds- Adam Gettis- Emmett Cleary
I really like the Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Newhouse line up. If Flowers can hold up this has a lot of potential. Newhouse is not a bum and has played 2 seasons as a starter at LT. He should be able to be an adequate RT.
Plus when Beatty comes back you can plug him in a RT if
Newhouse isn't up to it, or LT if Flowers isn't. This setup leaves the center of the line stable all season, and hopefully 4/5 of it (assuming Flowers stays).
Sure, I'm not expecting him to play like the first overall pick, but you have to think he has a chance to be more serviceable than Marshall Newhouse...that is, if he's healthy.
After the Brown Debacle it's tough to have confidence in a pick up like we've got playing RT. Sorry, twice cut scares me, the write ups scare me.
I think the bench [press does talk about strength, particuarly if you're tall and have long arms. I think that might not be transferable if you're a block that can't move, I think it is transferable if you're athletic...even if it doesn't show dramatically with the intimidating type of blocks that seems to be the only thing this board values.
I don't think Flowers should be on the left side in his rookie year. I'm not into bashing him or over-emphasizing the comments about his lack of skill. I know Smith started on the right side. I see the high fail rate the last few years among tackles more highly regarded than Flowers. The move, to me, emphasizes how much we miss Beatty.
I look at the line and at this writing I see Center stronger, Right guard stronger marginally, left guard stronger and both tackles markedly weaker.
I am surprised that Jones isn't even mentioned in there.
Well aware that the pros are much smarter than me...happy to be proven wrong and have no alternatives that make sense either. It's just that Beatty....Flowers on the outside made so much sense to me, quess I'm stuck there. Now Pugh, Weston, Schwartz in the middle and I thought we had the makings of "special".
RE: Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been
Moved from RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?
Have to agree with the sentiment here. Really surprised how many people are happy about Pugh moving inside. Would love to believe it's about how good he can be at guard, but with Beatty out we need tackles and he was drafted as a tackle. Maybe Newhouse will work out but you don't generally find starting tackles in the discard bin.
RE: Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been moved from
RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?
If LG turns out to be Pugh's best position then yes, it's a good thing, and that's why the Giants planned on moving him from RT to LG from the outset...before Beatty got hurt. I'm happy that they stuck with their plan. Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
As for Newhouse, I'm not a big fan, but according to JonC, the Giants are pretty high on the guy. Still, I don't think they've written his name in at RT with a pen. We'll see what happens this summer.
the bottom line is the Giants are going to be starting a reserve
caliber player. Thats what happens when a starter gets injured and you're not deep.
So, you're supposed to have a starting-caliber player sitting on the bench, just in case an actual starter gets injured? Isn't that what your reserve-caliber players are for?
Each man has to secure their gig. This starting point is likely based on the staff's belief it's the strongest potential unit, which I posted earlier yesterday.
Pugh decision to play guard was made before Will Beatty injury. It's to take advantage of unique athlete #GiantsOTA
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
Bench press <> strength.
ok, another lesson learned on BBI. I thought the exercise was invented as a test of exactly that (strength).
The quote the poster made was that Beatty was "physically weak" so whatever point you think you're making is against a straw man.
If you read my post it addressed his style of play but was meant to refute the "physically weak" comment.
But carry on.
Agree on Beatty to RT unless Flowers tanks, but I don't see that happening. Newhouse? Not sure what happened to him but early on in GB he was a pretty solid LT.
Pugh decision to play guard was made before Will Beatty injury. It's to take advantage of unique athlete #GiantsOTA
Quote:
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
all true and all irrelevant to the point.
He could turn around and have a Sean Locklear type season, or he could continue being John Jerry. Nobody knows. The fact remains he hasn't been good enough to play as a starter for a pair of teams.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-????
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-????-Schwartz
Schwartz should start at RG, but I hope he feels some heat from Jerry, Mosley, and Hart. As for RT, I feel better about Newhouse there than if he was at LT, but I hope he feels some heat, too. It would be a blessing if one of the UDFA OTs steps up.
pjcas18 : 1:05 pm : link : reply
people need to learn more before posting.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.'
Your words linking BP results to refute people maligning the nature of Beatty's play. No? If not then why bother quoting BP stats at all?
pjcas18 : 1:05 pm : link : reply
people need to learn more before posting.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.'
Your words linking BP results to refute people maligning the nature of Beatty's play. No? If not then why bother quoting BP stats at all?
Being physically weak is false, being a finesse player is probably true. I don't know how to explain it any differently if you don't understand the difference between physical strength and playing with aggression. they are mutually exclusive.
I think you're wrong.
Floyd The Barber : 1:49 pm : link : reply
that the missing 5th starting olinemen isn't even on the roster ...'
95%+ of starting player upgrades in the NFL come from Free Agency, the Draft and internal player development. It's very likely the starting 5 OL are on the current roster
Ereck Flowers- Justin Pugh-Weston Richburg- Geoff Schwartz-Marshall Newhouse.
John Jerry rotated with Schwartz at right guard throughout the day. Behind them on the second team were:
Michael Bamiro-Brandon Mosley-Dallas Reynolds- Adam Gettis- Emmett Cleary
Hopefully Newhouse surprised. He has looked awful pretty much every time I've seen him, I was ok with him as depth but I'm scared shitless for Eli that he's a starter now.
Pugh on embracing his move to LG: "I know what it's like to be out there on an island, so my left tackle is gonna love playing next to me."
Pugh on embracing his move to LG: "I know what it's like to be out there on an island, so my left tackle is gonna love playing next to me."
This. Most excellent to hear.
The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
Oh, don't you know? He knows more then the Giant's staff and the NFL that had him as the best available guard of the free agency period. I wonder if he has a hidden agenda?
+1000 Both these guys need that work. And when Schwartz comes back he can slide right in at RG (or RT if needed) which really strengthens the OL.
Very true. I'm sure we'll see a few different combinations over the next couple of days, and in the run-up to training camp.
This was one of the first things I noticed as well. Either Herman has fallen off completely or Hart really impressed at rookie camp.
Ereck Flowers- Justin Pugh-Weston Richburg- Geoff Schwartz-Marshall Newhouse.
John Jerry rotated with Schwartz at right guard throughout the day. Behind them on the second team were:
Michael Bamiro-Brandon Mosley-Dallas Reynolds- Adam Gettis- Emmett Cleary
I really like the Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Newhouse line up. If Flowers can hold up this has a lot of potential. Newhouse is not a bum and has played 2 seasons as a starter at LT. He should be able to be an adequate RT.
Who slipped me the Mickey? I thought Herman was a lock to be 1 of the starting OG's!
After the Brown Debacle it's tough to have confidence in a pick up like we've got playing RT. Sorry, twice cut scares me, the write ups scare me.
I think the bench [press does talk about strength, particuarly if you're tall and have long arms. I think that might not be transferable if you're a block that can't move, I think it is transferable if you're athletic...even if it doesn't show dramatically with the intimidating type of blocks that seems to be the only thing this board values.
I don't think Flowers should be on the left side in his rookie year. I'm not into bashing him or over-emphasizing the comments about his lack of skill. I know Smith started on the right side. I see the high fail rate the last few years among tackles more highly regarded than Flowers. The move, to me, emphasizes how much we miss Beatty.
I look at the line and at this writing I see Center stronger, Right guard stronger marginally, left guard stronger and both tackles markedly weaker.
I am surprised that Jones isn't even mentioned in there.
Well aware that the pros are much smarter than me...happy to be proven wrong and have no alternatives that make sense either. It's just that Beatty....Flowers on the outside made so much sense to me, quess I'm stuck there. Now Pugh, Weston, Schwartz in the middle and I thought we had the makings of "special".
Have to agree with the sentiment here. Really surprised how many people are happy about Pugh moving inside. Would love to believe it's about how good he can be at guard, but with Beatty out we need tackles and he was drafted as a tackle. Maybe Newhouse will work out but you don't generally find starting tackles in the discard bin.
If LG turns out to be Pugh's best position then yes, it's a good thing, and that's why the Giants planned on moving him from RT to LG from the outset...before Beatty got hurt. I'm happy that they stuck with their plan. Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
As for Newhouse, I'm not a big fan, but according to JonC, the Giants are pretty high on the guy. Still, I don't think they've written his name in at RT with a pen. We'll see what happens this summer.
Which is why I'm hoping for Jake Long...not that he's the answer per say, but at least he can be more than serviceable if he's healthy.
...good luck with that.
So, you're supposed to have a starting-caliber player sitting on the bench, just in case an actual starter gets injured? Isn't that what your reserve-caliber players are for?