it's his natural and long term position, with the injury this is the way to go. Also glad to see Pugh inside, if Newhouse can surprise and Schwartz gets healthy that gets John "I can't pick up a stunt to save my damn life" Jerry to the bench where he belongs.
RE: RE: I would not be shocked if Flowers is playing LT
last season when Pugh got banged up. So it could be the best 2 out of Jerry/Schwartz/Newhouse take the field (assuming Flowers/Pugh don't struggle with their adjustments, respectively).
But what does this mean for Beatty if / when he returns? No way they move Flowers if he's halfway decent at LT mid-season. Can Beatty play RT? Would they keep him on the bench?
RE: RE: RE: I would not be shocked if Flowers is playing LT
But I like it. I am pleased they are sticking to a plan. I didn't think they seriously had Flowers in the plans as a LT. I hope this says otherwise and is not done simply because Beatty got hurt. If they had him in their long term plan as the LT, then Beatty probably played his last game as a Giant. Flowers just has to own the position now.
Newhouse is the wild card. If he plays well enough at RT and Flowers is at least a decent LT, the OL seems set. I love their conviction of keeping Pugh at LG. Now, if only Schwartz can get and stay healthy! If not, there are a few guys who will get a shot if Jerry picks up where he left off.
If Flowers is as hard a worker and talented as advertised, that could be a formidable left side for a few years with an anchor in the middle. It would really shift the way our offense has operated for several years, where the right side was the more dominant side for the better part of a decade.
last year, Charlie Brown bad. I imagine people had similar hopes for Brown last year, until they watched his putrid play. If this guy is starting, then have the ambulance on stand-by.
but that right side of the line is worse off than last year at its best ... anyone playing along side Jerry operates only at about 60% of there potential because he is a detriment to those he flanks ... Schwartz wont be ready for the beginning of the season, I have been saying this for a full year now ...
It made absolute sense to pull out of stop to get La'El, I knew this would happen, and now you have a baptism by fire by putting Flowers at LT ... 1 of 2 things can happen ... He can boom or become frustrated and demoralized ... sticking at Rookie at LT is a very tricky situation ...
I find it hilarious that Newhouse/Jerry are even on this team, what does that say about Mosely/Reyonlds/Herman ? these guys must absolutely suck ...
the beat reporters tweet who is on the 2nd team OL.
set yes..
but you have to be a little nervous about growing pains with Flowers..and Pugh playing a new position.
They're going to have to give his some help quite a bit...I'm guessing.
not by me...Huge leap in comp level. They don't even line up nose on nose in the CFL. The DL are a yard off the ball. Talk about needing an adjustment period.
That said give him time and he could develop. Jones has the physical attributes and he's hungry. He could have remained in Canada and had a career and made good money. He chose to test himself against the very best. I admire that and wish him well. Realistically it is going to take him some time.
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does, he is not very good to begin with, I think it has more to do with the bodies that lurch behind him that fill the void, are awful ...
Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been moved from
i am not sure ...
Floyd The Barber : 12:27 pm : link : reply
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does
i am not sure ...
Floyd The Barber : 12:27 pm : link : reply
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does
He is on the field and he is playing.
he is going to be limited, he will not be contact ready I can tell you that ...
If Jerry and Newhouse are our best options to start...
There is no contact before training camp. You have no clue who will or won't be ready. The fact he's in OTA drills playing indicates to me he's probably gtg for full contact once camp opens.
about flowers at LT is hilarious. he's played nothing but LT and they've talked about him as a LT and people still managed to get surprised he (continues) to play LT.
Beatty plays RT if he makes it back. the flowers era has already started
it will be because of re-injury or a new injury. He wouldn't have been on the field at all today if he was in danger of not playing at the start of the season. The big if, IF he can stay healthy, a right side of Scwartz and Newhouse should be better than Jerry and an injured Pugh from last year. Likewise, Flowers and Pugh have the potential to be a much more dominating left side with Richburg as a solid anchor. This OL has the potential (that word again) to be much better than the last couple of years. If Jerry isn't starting at least half the games, he is still a decent asset as backup.
This year is the most excited I have been about a draft class in some time. Plus, it really higlights last year's draft and FA signings. If players play to their ability, Reese can really come away looking very good. That means Flowers is a legit LT, Schwartz is healthy and plays like he did when healthy and at RG last year, Jerry is a good backup, Richburg anchors the middle, Collins is a legit SS, etc.
I think unless Flowers struggles, you are correct, we've seen the last of Beatty at LT.
But that's assuming that he doesn't struggle. Which is a big assumption IMO. I'm not saying he won't eventually play well at LT, but he's a rookie who even the Giants admit has technique issues.
I think unless Flowers struggles, you are correct, we've seen the last of Beatty at LT.
Agree. But do you think Beatty can be effective at RT? He really isn't a physical, drive blocking type that you would want at RT. And if not Beatty, who do you think would be best at RT if indeed Flowers proves ready for LT right away?
If Flowers sticks at LT (and I'd leave him there unless he flops)
it will be interesting to see if they decide to try Beatty at RT when he's healthy.
He doesn't fit the position ideally, but if he demonstrated he could hold it down, it effectively buys them time from having to draft or sign a RT right away.
There is no contact before training camp. You have no clue who will or won't be ready. The fact he's in OTA drills playing indicates to me he's probably gtg for full contact once camp opens.
call me pessimistic, but the severity of the injury, and a man that size, lower leg, is never really a good thing ... but as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good, its just the bodies behind him are awful ... maybe one of these new guys will make a name
I agree we shouldn't be stunned that Flowers is at LT with the Beatty injury. The Giants drafted him Top 10 a spot they expect to get elite talent production.
Just for clarification Flowers started and played at RT his first season at Miami. He did play the last two seasons at LT.
1) I also like Jon C's thought about Beatty at RT if he is healthy enough to play this year. the bottom line is, by putting Flowers at LT today, the giants have declared their intention for him to be the LT for a long time. you don't move him there unless you expect him to ultimately take over there anyway. Beatty's injury just moved up their plan.
2) But, if Newhouse is playing well at RT, I don't see the need to give Beatty a starting spot upon his return.
3) How many teams have a second string OL in today's NFL that isn't pretty scary overall?
'as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good'
The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
Either way, his potential cap savings next winter is almost $7M. We'll need to see if Newhouse is productive, and do they decide to procure a starting caliber RT next offseason, regardless.
IF Flowers pans out at LT Beatty's days are numbered
If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.
that was tied for 3rd most among tackles in his draft class who did the bench. more than Sebastian Vollmer, Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, Eben Britton, Phil Loadholt, etc.
anyway, if you want to say he's not a road grader or he's not tough because he quotes bible verses and is known as more of a technique lineman than a brute force lineman that's fine, but don't say he's weak or a pussy, it makes you look foolish.
and I'm not a huge Beatty fan (I think in 2015 the Giants would have been better with him than without him, but I don't love him at LT), just hate the stereotypes that get thrown around as fact.
RE: IF Flowers pans out at LT Beatty's days are numbered
If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.
Question: If Flowers pans out right away at LT, Beatty comes back and proves competent at RT, would they cut Schwartz instead next year?
If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.
Question: If Flowers pans out right away at LT, Beatty comes back and proves competent at RT, would they cut Schwartz instead next year?
No. Schwartz was signed to play OG. Why cut him and create a hole there? I think the more likely scenario would be Flowers pans out, Schwartz slides out to RT and Beatty gets cut. Hopefully one of the younger guys (Hermann, Mosely, Hart, etc) can then step up at RG if this were to happen.
an anti-Beatty bias on BBI for some reason. He's not nearly as bad a player as some make him out to be, but that's beside the point.
With the injury and Flowers, the writing does seem to be on the wall.
The problem in the short term with Beatty out is the need for Newhouse and/or Jerry in the lineup. 2 guys who you really hope to be nothing more than backups.
Rooting for Hart to show something and kick Schwartz out to RT.
Bench press doesn't denote play strength or demeanor on the field
It's literally the worst stat at projecting athletic performance imo. Beatty may not be 'weak' but he's soft. It's a problem we had at several spots on the line last season and frankly in recent years.
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
RE: Bench press doesn't denote play strength or demeanor on the field
It's literally the worst stat at projecting athletic performance imo. Beatty may not be 'weak' but he's soft. It's a problem we had at several spots on the line last season and frankly in recent years.
Bench press <> strength.
ok, another lesson learned on BBI. I thought the exercise was invented as a test of exactly that (strength).
The quote the poster made was that Beatty was "physically weak" so whatever point you think you're making is against a straw man.
If you read my post it addressed his style of play but was meant to refute the "physically weak" comment.
That could be a mean combo on the left with some chemistry and time playing together. Richburg, Pugh, Flowers could be our C to LT for a long long time, that would be a huge building block for this team.
Agree on Beatty to RT unless Flowers tanks, but I don't see that happening. Newhouse? Not sure what happened to him but early on in GB he was a pretty solid LT.
Maybe 'soft' isn't the proper description for Beatty
Pugh decision to play guard was made before Will Beatty injury. It's to take advantage of unique athlete #GiantsOTA
Yes, it was. But, I am happy the giants decided to stick with it. There were thoughts the injury would force them to move Pugh back to OT (left or right). this shows some conviction and could help cement 3/5 of the OL for at least a few years.
Strength lifting an object doesn't corrrelate to performance
The myriad factors involving moving bodies and leverage make the bench press a very limited tool for assessing the functional power of a player. Beatty could BP a car for all I care. The fact is he isn't a 'powerful' player on Sundays. he's a finesse guy that doesn't have a killer instinct. He's a known quality at this point.
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
Besides knowledge of OL play, more important is how many people really watch enough of the OL? For that matter, how many people saw more than a game or two of Newhouse with the Bengals? And were actually paying attention to the OL?
RE: Strength lifting an object doesn't corrrelate to performance
The myriad factors involving moving bodies and leverage make the bench press a very limited tool for assessing the functional power of a player. Beatty could BP a car for all I care. The fact is he isn't a 'powerful' player on Sundays. he's a finesse guy that doesn't have a killer instinct. He's a known quality at this point.
...and a youngish player they may believe they can work with and develop. To have him starting wasn't the plan and isn't ideal. Fans have every right to question his ability as he's failed the last couple of seasons to perform well on the field. That isn't a myth it's a fact. You don't bounce from city to city if you are playing well.
People are basing their opinions on Newhouse on the facts
that he lost a starting job in Green Bay, and also couldn't get one in Cincy. He's not a well regarded player.
He could turn around and have a Sean Locklear type season, or he could continue being John Jerry. Nobody knows. The fact remains he hasn't been good enough to play as a starter for a pair of teams.
if the Giants really did want Flowers at LT, the Beatty injury could be somewhat of a blessing (although if someone else gets hurt, it could get ugly).
If the plan was to move Pugh to LG, then stick with the plan. Flowers was Beatty's heir apparent anyway, but he'll just have to grow up a little faster. They've got three months to get the rookie up to speed, and three months to get Pugh used to playing LG next to the big kid...and next to Richburg at Center, too.
Schwartz should start at RG, but I hope he feels some heat from Jerry, Mosley, and Hart. As for RT, I feel better about Newhouse there than if he was at LT, but I hope he feels some heat, too. It would be a blessing if one of the UDFA OTs steps up.
on the right side. Neither player is a physically dominating run blocker. I think Beatty is a competent OT and the Giants are better off with him than without him, but his game is more that of a technician type, he is not a mauler. Jerry is weak inside, he gets pushed around, so yes, I think as a duo they would be physically weak on the right side. Get Jerry off the field (Schwartz, maybe Jones?) and it's not as big an issue.
'Beatty is not physically weak
pjcas18 : 1:05 pm : link : reply
people need to learn more before posting.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.'
Your words linking BP results to refute people maligning the nature of Beatty's play. No? If not then why bother quoting BP stats at all?
Being physically weak is false, being a finesse player is probably true. I don't know how to explain it any differently if you don't understand the difference between physical strength and playing with aggression. they are mutually exclusive.
'i think it is safe to assume ...
Floyd The Barber : 1:49 pm : link : reply
that the missing 5th starting olinemen isn't even on the roster ...'
95%+ of starting player upgrades in the NFL come from Free Agency, the Draft and internal player development. It's very likely the starting 5 OL are on the current roster
about Herman, if he were in the mix he would have at least benn on the second string! Oh well, I guess that is why I don't get paid to evaluate NFL talent!
would probably be the worst Right-Side to an OL in the NFL. Damn, we really need Schwartz to earn that money this year.
Hopefully Newhouse surprised. He has looked awful pretty much every time I've seen him, I was ok with him as depth but I'm scared shitless for Eli that he's a starter now.
'as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good'
The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
Oh, don't you know? He knows more then the Giant's staff and the NFL that had him as the best available guard of the free agency period. I wonder if he has a hidden agenda?
John Jerry rotated with Schwartz at right guard throughout the day. Behind them on the second team were:
Michael Bamiro-Brandon Mosley-Dallas Reynolds- Adam Gettis- Emmett Cleary
I really like the Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Newhouse line up. If Flowers can hold up this has a lot of potential. Newhouse is not a bum and has played 2 seasons as a starter at LT. He should be able to be an adequate RT.
Plus when Beatty comes back you can plug him in a RT if
Newhouse isn't up to it, or LT if Flowers isn't. This setup leaves the center of the line stable all season, and hopefully 4/5 of it (assuming Flowers stays).
Sure, I'm not expecting him to play like the first overall pick, but you have to think he has a chance to be more serviceable than Marshall Newhouse...that is, if he's healthy.
After the Brown Debacle it's tough to have confidence in a pick up like we've got playing RT. Sorry, twice cut scares me, the write ups scare me.
I think the bench [press does talk about strength, particuarly if you're tall and have long arms. I think that might not be transferable if you're a block that can't move, I think it is transferable if you're athletic...even if it doesn't show dramatically with the intimidating type of blocks that seems to be the only thing this board values.
I don't think Flowers should be on the left side in his rookie year. I'm not into bashing him or over-emphasizing the comments about his lack of skill. I know Smith started on the right side. I see the high fail rate the last few years among tackles more highly regarded than Flowers. The move, to me, emphasizes how much we miss Beatty.
I look at the line and at this writing I see Center stronger, Right guard stronger marginally, left guard stronger and both tackles markedly weaker.
I am surprised that Jones isn't even mentioned in there.
Well aware that the pros are much smarter than me...happy to be proven wrong and have no alternatives that make sense either. It's just that Beatty....Flowers on the outside made so much sense to me, quess I'm stuck there. Now Pugh, Weston, Schwartz in the middle and I thought we had the makings of "special".
RE: Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been
Moved from RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?
Have to agree with the sentiment here. Really surprised how many people are happy about Pugh moving inside. Would love to believe it's about how good he can be at guard, but with Beatty out we need tackles and he was drafted as a tackle. Maybe Newhouse will work out but you don't generally find starting tackles in the discard bin.
RE: Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been moved from
RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?
If LG turns out to be Pugh's best position then yes, it's a good thing, and that's why the Giants planned on moving him from RT to LG from the outset...before Beatty got hurt. I'm happy that they stuck with their plan. Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
As for Newhouse, I'm not a big fan, but according to JonC, the Giants are pretty high on the guy. Still, I don't think they've written his name in at RT with a pen. We'll see what happens this summer.
the bottom line is the Giants are going to be starting a reserve
caliber player. Thats what happens when a starter gets injured and you're not deep.
So, you're supposed to have a starting-caliber player sitting on the bench, just in case an actual starter gets injured? Isn't that what your reserve-caliber players are for?
Each man has to secure their gig. This starting point is likely based on the staff's belief it's the strongest potential unit, which I posted earlier yesterday.
Geoff Schwartz is here + working, but they'll likely take things cautiously with his ankle recovery. Wouldn't read much into it.
I wouldn't be shocked if he's playing LT by September. They are clearly giving him every chance to win the job, especially with Beatty out.
Getting ahead of ourselves here, but then where does Beatty go if/when he returns?
Also, Flowers at LT to start is a bit of a surprise. As some mentioned I thought he would have to work his way up the depth chart.
When Schwartz comes back let him, Jerry and Newhouse duke it out for the two right side positions.
jerry and schwartz both getting guard reps
Beatty is toast here if things go to plan, he'll be a cap casualty next Winter.
Quote:
by december.
I wouldn't be shocked if he's playing LT by September. They are clearly giving him every chance to win the job, especially with Beatty out.
Getting ahead of ourselves here, but then where does Beatty go if/when he returns?
He doesn't really have a position other than LT. He's not the run-blocker you need for RT, or interior line.
He doesn't really have a position other than LT. He's not the run-blocker you need for RT, or interior line.
Hence the question. Though I'm also assuming Beatty is a better option than Jerry and/or Newhouse.
Left side and center set.
Right side probably will either be RG Jerry/RT Schwartz or RG Schwartz/RT Newhouse.
A rock? Since 2011 he has dressed for 0, 13, 16 and 2 games. And started only 9 (7 in 2013 and 2 in 2014). More like a pebble.
Newhouse is the wild card. If he plays well enough at RT and Flowers is at least a decent LT, the OL seems set. I love their conviction of keeping Pugh at LG. Now, if only Schwartz can get and stay healthy! If not, there are a few guys who will get a shot if Jerry picks up where he left off.
If Flowers is as hard a worker and talented as advertised, that could be a formidable left side for a few years with an anchor in the middle. It would really shift the way our offense has operated for several years, where the right side was the more dominant side for the better part of a decade.
Perennial Optimism Show!
''How does it feel to be starting on the New York Frigging Giants Big Guy!''
"aw, shucks, I always knew I had it in me, yo"
From left to right, Giants OL during this 11v11: Flowers, Pugh, Richburgh, Schwartz, Marshall Newhouse.
It made absolute sense to pull out of stop to get La'El, I knew this would happen, and now you have a baptism by fire by putting Flowers at LT ... 1 of 2 things can happen ... He can boom or become frustrated and demoralized ... sticking at Rookie at LT is a very tricky situation ...
I find it hilarious that Newhouse/Jerry are even on this team, what does that say about Mosely/Reyonlds/Herman ? these guys must absolutely suck ...
"The guy is dogshit and the worst player to ever have the luxury of putting on pads"!
Geoff Schwartz for John Jerry at RG as team drills begin. #NYG
"The guy is dogshit and the worst player to ever have the luxury of putting on pads"!
well you can certainly say nobody sustaining injury putting on there cleats and practice gear is a positive !
Second-team OL (left to right): Bamiro, Mosley, Reynolds, Hart, Emmett Cleary #GiantsOTA
Second-team OL (left to right): Bamiro, Mosley, Reynolds, Hart, Emmett Cleary #GiantsOTA
Second-team OL (left to right): Bamiro, Mosley, Reynolds, Hart, Emmett Cleary #GiantsOTA
BRO?!?!?
Quote:
by december.
I wouldn't be shocked if he's playing LT by September. They are clearly giving him every chance to win the job, especially with Beatty out.
Getting ahead of ourselves here, but then where does Beatty go if/when he returns?
Simple. The sidelines.
You also have to insert..
FatMan in Charlotte : 12:09 pm : link : reply
negativity from people who didn't see Newhouse play a down last year.
"The guy is dogshit and the worst player to ever have the luxury of putting on pads"! ''
Then again, FMIC typically speaks the truth on football.
Is Newhouse any good or no? who gots the data?
and...Schwartz was all happy dappy showing off commenting around draft time, where is his ass? and is HE any effing good?
set yes..
but you have to be a little nervous about growing pains with Flowers..and Pugh playing a new position.
They're going to have to give his some help quite a bit...I'm guessing.
He's in the 11 v 11 drills...get a grip
I thought he was ticketed for the Pro Bowl.
That said give him time and he could develop. Jones has the physical attributes and he's hungry. He could have remained in Canada and had a career and made good money. He chose to test himself against the very best. I admire that and wish him well. Realistically it is going to take him some time.
And we may be waiting for a new starting lineman to be signed for Week 2 from the veteran free agent pool.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Hart-Schwartz
It doesn't matter where he plays, as long as he gives you starting-quality production.
If he's playing LG and the team can do what it needs to do in the pass and run game, do you care that he's not playing RT?
Disappointing for Herman.
Quote:
RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?
It doesn't matter where he plays, as long as he gives you starting-quality production.
If he's playing LG and the team can do what it needs to do in the pass and run game, do you care that he's not playing RT?
Agree with your premise if there is a suitable replacement at RT.
Floyd The Barber : 12:27 pm : link : reply
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does
He is on the field and he is playing.
Floyd The Barber : 12:27 pm : link : reply
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does
He is on the field and he is playing.
he is going to be limited, he will not be contact ready I can tell you that ...
Beatty plays RT if he makes it back. the flowers era has already started
This year is the most excited I have been about a draft class in some time. Plus, it really higlights last year's draft and FA signings. If players play to their ability, Reese can really come away looking very good. That means Flowers is a legit LT, Schwartz is healthy and plays like he did when healthy and at RG last year, Jerry is a good backup, Richburg anchors the middle, Collins is a legit SS, etc.
Fingers and toes crossed the first team OL stays healthy.
But that's assuming that he doesn't struggle. Which is a big assumption IMO. I'm not saying he won't eventually play well at LT, but he's a rookie who even the Giants admit has technique issues.
Agree. But do you think Beatty can be effective at RT? He really isn't a physical, drive blocking type that you would want at RT. And if not Beatty, who do you think would be best at RT if indeed Flowers proves ready for LT right away?
He doesn't fit the position ideally, but if he demonstrated he could hold it down, it effectively buys them time from having to draft or sign a RT right away.
call me pessimistic, but the severity of the injury, and a man that size, lower leg, is never really a good thing ... but as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good, its just the bodies behind him are awful ... maybe one of these new guys will make a name
"The guy is dogshit and the worst player to ever have the luxury of putting on pads"!
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
Just for clarification Flowers started and played at RT his first season at Miami. He did play the last two seasons at LT.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Hart-Schwartz
This guy was a 7th round draft pick. If he makes the team, that would be something.
2) But, if Newhouse is playing well at RT, I don't see the need to give Beatty a starting spot upon his return.
3) How many teams have a second string OL in today's NFL that isn't pretty scary overall?
The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
He is an intriguing prospect with lots of experience from a winning program, not to mention a huge guy.
Why is it out of the realm of possibility, especially with a starting lineup with so much uncertainty?
Either way, his potential cap savings next winter is almost $7M. We'll need to see if Newhouse is productive, and do they decide to procure a starting caliber RT next offseason, regardless.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.
that was tied for 3rd most among tackles in his draft class who did the bench. more than Sebastian Vollmer, Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, Eben Britton, Phil Loadholt, etc.
anyway, if you want to say he's not a road grader or he's not tough because he quotes bible verses and is known as more of a technique lineman than a brute force lineman that's fine, but don't say he's weak or a pussy, it makes you look foolish.
and I'm not a huge Beatty fan (I think in 2015 the Giants would have been better with him than without him, but I don't love him at LT), just hate the stereotypes that get thrown around as fact.
Question: If Flowers pans out right away at LT, Beatty comes back and proves competent at RT, would they cut Schwartz instead next year?
Any cap difference if Beatty is on ir for the full season vs designated to return?
Quote:
If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.
Question: If Flowers pans out right away at LT, Beatty comes back and proves competent at RT, would they cut Schwartz instead next year?
No. Schwartz was signed to play OG. Why cut him and create a hole there? I think the more likely scenario would be Flowers pans out, Schwartz slides out to RT and Beatty gets cut. Hopefully one of the younger guys (Hermann, Mosely, Hart, etc) can then step up at RG if this were to happen.
Any cap difference if Beatty is on ir for the full season vs designated to return?
Nope. IR players still count towards the cap. They could decide to waive/injured Beatty and get ~$500k in cap savings, but I doubt they'd do that.
But I don't think turning him into Richie Incognito is going to make the team better.
he's not that player and he doesn't have to be.
I think having a road grader guard and/or center is far more important than at the tackle.
With the injury and Flowers, the writing does seem to be on the wall.
The problem in the short term with Beatty out is the need for Newhouse and/or Jerry in the lineup. 2 guys who you really hope to be nothing more than backups.
Rooting for Hart to show something and kick Schwartz out to RT.
Pugh decision to play guard was made before Will Beatty injury. It's to take advantage of unique athlete #GiantsOTA
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
Bench press <> strength.
ok, another lesson learned on BBI. I thought the exercise was invented as a test of exactly that (strength).
The quote the poster made was that Beatty was "physically weak" so whatever point you think you're making is against a straw man.
If you read my post it addressed his style of play but was meant to refute the "physically weak" comment.
But carry on.
Agree on Beatty to RT unless Flowers tanks, but I don't see that happening. Newhouse? Not sure what happened to him but early on in GB he was a pretty solid LT.
Pugh decision to play guard was made before Will Beatty injury. It's to take advantage of unique athlete #GiantsOTA
Quote:
It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
No. Like most things on BBI, a couple of people say things and it takes on a legend of its own. Newhouse was brought here as depth. Do you really think the Giants thought to themselves, "Let's take a guy who is universally thought of as garbage"?
There is something there they either see or believe in, that a few other teams also saw.
It is ridiculous for most fans to make comments about lineman because most (including myself) don't know anything about the nuances of line play. I'm dead certain your ignorant ass is also in that group, Radar.
all true and all irrelevant to the point.
He could turn around and have a Sean Locklear type season, or he could continue being John Jerry. Nobody knows. The fact remains he hasn't been good enough to play as a starter for a pair of teams.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-????
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-????-Schwartz
Schwartz should start at RG, but I hope he feels some heat from Jerry, Mosley, and Hart. As for RT, I feel better about Newhouse there than if he was at LT, but I hope he feels some heat, too. It would be a blessing if one of the UDFA OTs steps up.
pjcas18 : 1:05 pm : link : reply
people need to learn more before posting.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.'
Your words linking BP results to refute people maligning the nature of Beatty's play. No? If not then why bother quoting BP stats at all?
pjcas18 : 1:05 pm : link : reply
people need to learn more before posting.
Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.'
Your words linking BP results to refute people maligning the nature of Beatty's play. No? If not then why bother quoting BP stats at all?
Being physically weak is false, being a finesse player is probably true. I don't know how to explain it any differently if you don't understand the difference between physical strength and playing with aggression. they are mutually exclusive.
I think you're wrong.
Floyd The Barber : 1:49 pm : link : reply
that the missing 5th starting olinemen isn't even on the roster ...'
95%+ of starting player upgrades in the NFL come from Free Agency, the Draft and internal player development. It's very likely the starting 5 OL are on the current roster
Ereck Flowers- Justin Pugh-Weston Richburg- Geoff Schwartz-Marshall Newhouse.
John Jerry rotated with Schwartz at right guard throughout the day. Behind them on the second team were:
Michael Bamiro-Brandon Mosley-Dallas Reynolds- Adam Gettis- Emmett Cleary
Hopefully Newhouse surprised. He has looked awful pretty much every time I've seen him, I was ok with him as depth but I'm scared shitless for Eli that he's a starter now.
Pugh on embracing his move to LG: "I know what it's like to be out there on an island, so my left tackle is gonna love playing next to me."
Pugh on embracing his move to LG: "I know what it's like to be out there on an island, so my left tackle is gonna love playing next to me."
This. Most excellent to hear.
The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
Oh, don't you know? He knows more then the Giant's staff and the NFL that had him as the best available guard of the free agency period. I wonder if he has a hidden agenda?
+1000 Both these guys need that work. And when Schwartz comes back he can slide right in at RG (or RT if needed) which really strengthens the OL.
Very true. I'm sure we'll see a few different combinations over the next couple of days, and in the run-up to training camp.
This was one of the first things I noticed as well. Either Herman has fallen off completely or Hart really impressed at rookie camp.
Ereck Flowers- Justin Pugh-Weston Richburg- Geoff Schwartz-Marshall Newhouse.
John Jerry rotated with Schwartz at right guard throughout the day. Behind them on the second team were:
Michael Bamiro-Brandon Mosley-Dallas Reynolds- Adam Gettis- Emmett Cleary
I really like the Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Newhouse line up. If Flowers can hold up this has a lot of potential. Newhouse is not a bum and has played 2 seasons as a starter at LT. He should be able to be an adequate RT.
Who slipped me the Mickey? I thought Herman was a lock to be 1 of the starting OG's!
After the Brown Debacle it's tough to have confidence in a pick up like we've got playing RT. Sorry, twice cut scares me, the write ups scare me.
I think the bench [press does talk about strength, particuarly if you're tall and have long arms. I think that might not be transferable if you're a block that can't move, I think it is transferable if you're athletic...even if it doesn't show dramatically with the intimidating type of blocks that seems to be the only thing this board values.
I don't think Flowers should be on the left side in his rookie year. I'm not into bashing him or over-emphasizing the comments about his lack of skill. I know Smith started on the right side. I see the high fail rate the last few years among tackles more highly regarded than Flowers. The move, to me, emphasizes how much we miss Beatty.
I look at the line and at this writing I see Center stronger, Right guard stronger marginally, left guard stronger and both tackles markedly weaker.
I am surprised that Jones isn't even mentioned in there.
Well aware that the pros are much smarter than me...happy to be proven wrong and have no alternatives that make sense either. It's just that Beatty....Flowers on the outside made so much sense to me, quess I'm stuck there. Now Pugh, Weston, Schwartz in the middle and I thought we had the makings of "special".
Have to agree with the sentiment here. Really surprised how many people are happy about Pugh moving inside. Would love to believe it's about how good he can be at guard, but with Beatty out we need tackles and he was drafted as a tackle. Maybe Newhouse will work out but you don't generally find starting tackles in the discard bin.
If LG turns out to be Pugh's best position then yes, it's a good thing, and that's why the Giants planned on moving him from RT to LG from the outset...before Beatty got hurt. I'm happy that they stuck with their plan. Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
As for Newhouse, I'm not a big fan, but according to JonC, the Giants are pretty high on the guy. Still, I don't think they've written his name in at RT with a pen. We'll see what happens this summer.
Which is why I'm hoping for Jake Long...not that he's the answer per say, but at least he can be more than serviceable if he's healthy.
...good luck with that.
So, you're supposed to have a starting-caliber player sitting on the bench, just in case an actual starter gets injured? Isn't that what your reserve-caliber players are for?