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1st Team OL

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2015 11:40 am
Art Stapleton & #8207;@art_stapleton 5s6 seconds ago

1st Giants OL alignment post-Beatty of OTAs:
LT Ereck Flowers, LG Justin Pugh, C Weston Richburg, RG John Jerry, RT Marshall Newhouse.
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so  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2015 12:19 pm : link
Hart is ahead of Herman.
true Fatman  
idiotsavant : 5/27/2015 12:20 pm : link
''
You also have to insert..
FatMan in Charlotte : 12:09 pm : link : reply

negativity from people who didn't see Newhouse play a down last year.

"The guy is dogshit and the worst player to ever have the luxury of putting on pads"! ''


Then again, FMIC typically speaks the truth on football.

Is Newhouse any good or no? who gots the data?

and...Schwartz was all happy dappy showing off commenting around draft time, where is his ass? and is HE any effing good?
Hugely  
Jon in NYC : 5/27/2015 12:21 pm : link
encouraging that they already have Flowers at LT.
RE: I hope  
Andy in Boston : 5/27/2015 12:21 pm : link
In comment 12302392 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the beat reporters tweet who is on the 2nd team OL.


set yes..
but you have to be a little nervous about growing pains with Flowers..and Pugh playing a new position.
They're going to have to give his some help quite a bit...I'm guessing.
Happy to see Pugh moved inside  
notoriousc : 5/27/2015 12:21 pm : link
excited for the potential future with Flowers-Pugh-Richburg
Floyd The Barber : 12:09 pm :  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:21 pm : link
... Schwartz wont be ready for the beginning of the season, I have been saying this for a full year now ...

He's in the 11 v 11 drills...get a grip
RE: So at last early on day 1 the CFL kid hasn't cracked the top ten  
Lithium : 5/27/2015 12:22 pm : link
In comment 12302444 Torrag said:
Quote:
but it's early...


I thought he was ticketed for the Pro Bowl.
Washington  
sin : 5/27/2015 12:23 pm : link
just released Chris Chester. Kick the tires on a quality right guard?
Lithium  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:27 pm : link
not by me...Huge leap in comp level. They don't even line up nose on nose in the CFL. The DL are a yard off the ball. Talk about needing an adjustment period.

That said give him time and he could develop. Jones has the physical attributes and he's hungry. He could have remained in Canada and had a career and made good money. He chose to test himself against the very best. I admire that and wish him well. Realistically it is going to take him some time.
i am not sure ...  
Floyd The Barber : 5/27/2015 12:27 pm : link
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does, he is not very good to begin with, I think it has more to do with the bodies that lurch behind him that fill the void, are awful ...
Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been moved from  
RDJR : 5/27/2015 12:29 pm : link
RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?
Will look a lot different by September 1  
Ivan15 : 5/27/2015 12:29 pm : link
It's very likely that only 2 of these linemen will be starting in the same position on opening day.

And we may be waiting for a new starting lineman to be signed for Week 2 from the veteran free agent pool.
What does everyone think of Hart?  
Chris684 : 5/27/2015 12:31 pm : link
What I'd like to see in the absence of Beatty is:

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Hart-Schwartz
RE: Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been moved from  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 12:31 pm : link
In comment 12302479 RDJR said:
Quote:
RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?


It doesn't matter where he plays, as long as he gives you starting-quality production.

If he's playing LG and the team can do what it needs to do in the pass and run game, do you care that he's not playing RT?
Brett Jones not even on the 2nd team OLine?  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 5/27/2015 12:32 pm : link
Hmmm.
Let's hope it doesn't change much  
JonC : 5/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
as that's likely their best configuration on paper.

Disappointing for Herman.
RE: RE: Are we to be pleased that a former #1 draft pick has been moved from  
RDJR : 5/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
In comment 12302485 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12302479 RDJR said:


Quote:


RT to guard and replaced by Marshall Newhouse at RT? This is a good thing?





It doesn't matter where he plays, as long as he gives you starting-quality production.

If he's playing LG and the team can do what it needs to do in the pass and run game, do you care that he's not playing RT?


Agree with your premise if there is a suitable replacement at RT.
I think the next important question is  
Matt M. : 5/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
whether Jones will be ahead of Reynolds as 2nd string OC by camp (or the end of camp).
with a healthy GS at RG  
JonC : 5/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
not Jerry.
Clueless...  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
i am not sure ...
Floyd The Barber : 12:27 pm : link : reply
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does

He is on the field and he is playing.
RE: Clueless...  
Floyd The Barber : 5/27/2015 12:35 pm : link
In comment 12302505 Torrag said:
Quote:
i am not sure ...
Floyd The Barber : 12:27 pm : link : reply
why Schwartz being injured and not being on the field burns my biscuits as much as it does

He is on the field and he is playing.



he is going to be limited, he will not be contact ready I can tell you that ...
If Jerry and Newhouse are our best options to start...  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:37 pm : link
...we're in trouble. IMO.
You know it will be different  
chops : 5/27/2015 12:39 pm : link
in Sept.
Floyd you're just making shit up  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:39 pm : link
There is no contact before training camp. You have no clue who will or won't be ready. The fact he's in OTA drills playing indicates to me he's probably gtg for full contact once camp opens.
the shock  
area junc : 5/27/2015 12:40 pm : link
about flowers at LT is hilarious. he's played nothing but LT and they've talked about him as a LT and people still managed to get surprised he (continues) to play LT.

Beatty plays RT if he makes it back. the flowers era has already started
area junc  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2015 12:41 pm : link
I think unless Flowers struggles, you are correct, we've seen the last of Beatty at LT.
Sure would have been interesting to see...  
rptl530 : 5/27/2015 12:42 pm : link
what the lineup would have been if not for Beatty's injury.
If Schwartz isn't ready for the season  
Matt M. : 5/27/2015 12:43 pm : link
it will be because of re-injury or a new injury. He wouldn't have been on the field at all today if he was in danger of not playing at the start of the season. The big if, IF he can stay healthy, a right side of Scwartz and Newhouse should be better than Jerry and an injured Pugh from last year. Likewise, Flowers and Pugh have the potential to be a much more dominating left side with Richburg as a solid anchor. This OL has the potential (that word again) to be much better than the last couple of years. If Jerry isn't starting at least half the games, he is still a decent asset as backup.

This year is the most excited I have been about a draft class in some time. Plus, it really higlights last year's draft and FA signings. If players play to their ability, Reese can really come away looking very good. That means Flowers is a legit LT, Schwartz is healthy and plays like he did when healthy and at RG last year, Jerry is a good backup, Richburg anchors the middle, Collins is a legit SS, etc.
The First Team OL Seems OK  
Trainmaster : 5/27/2015 12:44 pm : link
but that second team OL is downright scary, especially with Beatty out.

Fingers and toes crossed the first team OL stays healthy.
RE: area junc  
AcidTest : 5/27/2015 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12302531 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think unless Flowers struggles, you are correct, we've seen the last of Beatty at LT.


But that's assuming that he doesn't struggle. Which is a big assumption IMO. I'm not saying he won't eventually play well at LT, but he's a rookie who even the Giants admit has technique issues.
RE: area junc  
Victor in CT : 5/27/2015 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12302531 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think unless Flowers struggles, you are correct, we've seen the last of Beatty at LT.


Agree. But do you think Beatty can be effective at RT? He really isn't a physical, drive blocking type that you would want at RT. And if not Beatty, who do you think would be best at RT if indeed Flowers proves ready for LT right away?
If Flowers sticks at LT (and I'd leave him there unless he flops)  
JonC : 5/27/2015 12:45 pm : link
it will be interesting to see if they decide to try Beatty at RT when he's healthy.

He doesn't fit the position ideally, but if he demonstrated he could hold it down, it effectively buys them time from having to draft or sign a RT right away.
What  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2015 12:46 pm : link
JonC just said.
RE: Floyd you're just making shit up  
Floyd The Barber : 5/27/2015 12:46 pm : link
In comment 12302522 Torrag said:
Quote:
There is no contact before training camp. You have no clue who will or won't be ready. The fact he's in OTA drills playing indicates to me he's probably gtg for full contact once camp opens.


call me pessimistic, but the severity of the injury, and a man that size, lower leg, is never really a good thing ... but as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good, its just the bodies behind him are awful ... maybe one of these new guys will make a name
RE: You also have to insert..  
chris r : 5/27/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12302415 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
negativity from people who didn't see Newhouse play a down last year.

"The guy is dogshit and the worst player to ever have the luxury of putting on pads"!


It's fairly universal from all sources that Newhouse was garbage.
area junc  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:47 pm : link
I agree we shouldn't be stunned that Flowers is at LT with the Beatty injury. The Giants drafted him Top 10 a spot they expect to get elite talent production.

Just for clarification Flowers started and played at RT his first season at Miami. He did play the last two seasons at LT.
RE: What does everyone think of Hart?  
Lithium : 5/27/2015 12:49 pm : link
In comment 12302484 Chris684 said:
Quote:
What I'd like to see in the absence of Beatty is:

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Hart-Schwartz


This guy was a 7th round draft pick. If he makes the team, that would be something.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 5/27/2015 12:50 pm : link
1) I also like Jon C's thought about Beatty at RT if he is healthy enough to play this year. the bottom line is, by putting Flowers at LT today, the giants have declared their intention for him to be the LT for a long time. you don't move him there unless you expect him to ultimately take over there anyway. Beatty's injury just moved up their plan.

2) But, if Newhouse is playing well at RT, I don't see the need to give Beatty a starting spot upon his return.

3) How many teams have a second string OL in today's NFL that isn't pretty scary overall?
Floyd The Barber : 12:46 pm  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:51 pm : link
'as I restated earlier, Schwartz at his best isn't all that good'

The Giants disagree with you. They didn't sign him as a free agent to a lucrative deal because they thought he wasn't 'all that good'. He got hurt. It happens. It isn't an indictment of his talent.
Where he was drafted  
Chris684 : 5/27/2015 12:52 pm : link
doesnt automatically seal his fate.

He is an intriguing prospect with lots of experience from a winning program, not to mention a huge guy.

Why is it out of the realm of possibility, especially with a starting lineup with so much uncertainty?
Thanks Jon C and Eric  
Victor in CT : 5/27/2015 12:52 pm : link
One thing that would worry me is if Schwartz can't go, having Jerry next to Beatty would be a physically weak right side
Beatty will have to show utility  
JonC : 5/27/2015 12:54 pm : link
and he's played some RT in the past.

Either way, his potential cap savings next winter is almost $7M. We'll need to see if Newhouse is productive, and do they decide to procure a starting caliber RT next offseason, regardless.
IF Flowers pans out at LT Beatty's days are numbered  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 12:59 pm : link
If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.
Beatty is not physically weak  
pjcas18 : 5/27/2015 1:05 pm : link
people need to learn more before posting.

Beatty had 27 reps of 225 at the combine and if anything I'd bet he's gotten stronger.

that was tied for 3rd most among tackles in his draft class who did the bench. more than Sebastian Vollmer, Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, Eben Britton, Phil Loadholt, etc.

anyway, if you want to say he's not a road grader or he's not tough because he quotes bible verses and is known as more of a technique lineman than a brute force lineman that's fine, but don't say he's weak or a pussy, it makes you look foolish.

and I'm not a huge Beatty fan (I think in 2015 the Giants would have been better with him than without him, but I don't love him at LT), just hate the stereotypes that get thrown around as fact.
RE: IF Flowers pans out at LT Beatty's days are numbered  
Victor in CT : 5/27/2015 1:07 pm : link
In comment 12302599 Torrag said:
Quote:
If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.


Question: If Flowers pans out right away at LT, Beatty comes back and proves competent at RT, would they cut Schwartz instead next year?
They seem to want  
Dankbeerman : 5/27/2015 1:09 pm : link
to leave the 3 young pieces in the spots they want them to be in long term.

Any cap difference if Beatty is on ir for the full season vs designated to return?

I don't buy into Beatty being "soft" or anything like that  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 1:11 pm : link
Just that his skillset isn't well suited for what they expect at RT.
RE: RE: IF Flowers pans out at LT Beatty's days are numbered  
giants#1 : 5/27/2015 1:11 pm : link
In comment 12302612 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12302599 Torrag said:


Quote:


If the team is confident his future is at LT no way they pay Beatty $7M after this season. But that's putting the cart before the horse. The priority is finding five guys that can improve on what was a soft but functional pass blocking and awful run blocking unit from last year.



Question: If Flowers pans out right away at LT, Beatty comes back and proves competent at RT, would they cut Schwartz instead next year?


No. Schwartz was signed to play OG. Why cut him and create a hole there? I think the more likely scenario would be Flowers pans out, Schwartz slides out to RT and Beatty gets cut. Hopefully one of the younger guys (Hermann, Mosely, Hart, etc) can then step up at RG if this were to happen.
RE: They seem to want  
giants#1 : 5/27/2015 1:13 pm : link
In comment 12302618 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
to leave the 3 young pieces in the spots they want them to be in long term.

Any cap difference if Beatty is on ir for the full season vs designated to return?


Nope. IR players still count towards the cap. They could decide to waive/injured Beatty and get ~$500k in cap savings, but I doubt they'd do that.
I think they can win with Beatty  
pjcas18 : 5/27/2015 1:13 pm : link
at LT, but I also think he's upgradeable and maybe with players on the roster like Flowers or even Pugh.

But I don't think turning him into Richie Incognito is going to make the team better.

he's not that player and he doesn't have to be.

I think having a road grader guard and/or center is far more important than at the tackle.
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