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NFT: The Knicks reality, Melo must go...

andrew_nyg : 5/27/2015 11:42 am
The current roster offers little to nothing beyond Melo's talent.

His leadership? Take a look at how well Sump and Smith are playing on a LeBron lead team. They NEVER had or will have that with Melo.

The trade FAILED miserably...it's time to move on.

Where do they go from here? If that Lakers trade of a #2 and Randle for Melo is real..what the hell are they waiting for?!

If they can't pull that off (or something like it) they need to shop Melo to other teams.

One team who may be ripe right about now? The Hawks. Why? A few reasons.
1) For all of their complementary talent and great coaching, they don't have that one "Go To" scorer on the roster.
2) They won 60 regular season games this year, you know where the ranked in attendance? #17

Trade Melo to the Hawks for Schroeder, this year's 1st and next years 1st. Schroeder is an up and coming PG who plays great defense, can penetrate the lane and create.

Just one idea, I'd love to hear others. It's time for housecleaning and it starts with getting some value in return for Melo.
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Danny Kanell : 5/27/2015 11:44 am : link
He has a no trade clause so....
The only problem with moving..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/27/2015 11:45 am : link
Melo is that you pretty much assure yourself of another year in the lottery. How much time will Jax and Fisher get?

It would probably be wise to move him, but in the age of needing to win now, that is a tough thing to sell the fanbase or ownership.
Seems  
DanMetroMan : 5/27/2015 11:45 am : link
like the only team that would make sense for Melo (him agreeing to go no less) would be the Lakers with Kobe pushing for his BFF but I doubt that would happen.
So what?  
andrew_nyg : 5/27/2015 11:45 am : link
He wouldn't go to a winning team? He wouldn't want to live in the Hollywood of the South with Lala?

So....
"If that Lakers trade of a #2 and Randle for Melo is real"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 11:46 am : link
Spoiler alert: It's not.
So JR Smith and Shump are  
Aspano! : 5/27/2015 11:46 am : link
your examples of Melo being shitty at leadership?

What about Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford and Trevor Ariza? All great players on their respective teams that were on the Knicks prior to Melo and did very little.

Delete this thread. The entire premise is shit.
RE: The only problem with moving..  
DanMetroMan : 5/27/2015 11:46 am : link
In comment 12302322 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Melo is that you pretty much assure yourself of another year in the lottery. How much time will Jax and Fisher get?

It would probably be wise to move him, but in the age of needing to win now, that is a tough thing to sell the fanbase or ownership.


No pick next year so not even a lottery pick to show for it. The Knicks should have sent Melo to the Bulls for whatever they could have taken back. Butler, Mirotic, picks, whatever. THAT was the move.
That was meant for  
andrew_nyg : 5/27/2015 11:46 am : link
Danny
Dan..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/27/2015 11:47 am : link
I was assuming they'd move him for a first, but I forgot that wouldn't necessarily mean the lottery!
RE: So what?  
Mike in Long Beach : 5/27/2015 11:48 am : link
In comment 12302328 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
He wouldn't go to a winning team? He wouldn't want to live in the Hollywood of the South with Lala?

So....


Haha... "so what"

So then there's only a limited amount of teams (if any) the Knicks can deal with.

That gives those teams leverage in negotiations since there is far less competition available for Melo's services.

That gives the Knicks less opportunity to get a worthwhile deal.

So... that's what.
In  
DanMetroMan : 5/27/2015 11:49 am : link
all honestly it would be kind of "cool" knowing Phil would at least explore moving EVERYONE this off-season and not be tied to Melo it but it is what it is.
Yes let's trade Melo  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 11:50 am : link
in a year where the Knicks do not have a draft pick makes sense....

If your going to trade Melo you wait until after this season...you see what you can do in the off season and see if you can build a team around him...if you cant and the season is shit then you trade him...

and you realize if you trade Melo no one is coming here and you cant say build through the draft because they do not have next year's pick...

Just a really dumb idea...
RE: So what?  
Danny Kanell : 5/27/2015 11:51 am : link
In comment 12302328 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
He wouldn't go to a winning team? He wouldn't want to live in the Hollywood of the South with Lala?

So....


What about this part?

Quote:
If they can't pull that off (or something like it) they need to shop Melo to other teams.


It doesn't work that way. You can't just shop a max player with a no trade clause. He decides where he goes (if anywhere).
I'd take  
Pep22 : 5/27/2015 11:52 am : link
Jordan Clarkson and Julius Randle and the 27th pick for Melo
RE: I'd take  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 11:52 am : link
In comment 12302357 Pep22 said:
Quote:
Jordan Clarkson and Julius Randle and the 27th pick for Melo


Thank god your not the GM
Got to love how it is always Melo's fault  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 11:56 am : link
to Knicks fans and the media...

yes it is Melo's fault Shump and JR played like dog shit...

yes it is Melo's fualt Amar'e and Chandler are always hurt...

Yes it is Melo's fault that Jason Kidd could not hit a shot in the playoffs....

Good luck finding a player to replace Melo becuase guess what? trading Melo puts you in the exact same position the Knicks were in 2010, and no one is coming here without Melo...

This playoffs have proven one thing, without a superstar you are not winning shit...
Yes, because under LeBron 's leadership...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/27/2015 12:11 pm : link
JR Smith would never do something stupid in a playoff series to get himself suspended.

I recall watching JR Smith brick wide open shot after wide open shot against Indy in the playoffs... I thought that was due to Melo's lack of leadership.
Phil and Melo will hang in there through next summer, I think.  
bceagle05 : 5/27/2015 12:15 pm : link
If things don't come together as hoped, I'm sure the Melo trade rumors will start. He'll wave that no-trade in a heartbeat to go chase a championship at the end of his career.
Patella at his age is a  
RetroJint : 5/27/2015 12:17 pm : link
tough injury. I don't think they can get what you guys want for him. The Knicks had one good year with him. I remember what Boeheim said after they bowed out in 6 to the Pacers. His college coach said all the Knicks were running away from the ball in the fourth quarter except for Smith, who hardly qualified as Melo's complementary player. Anthony should have never re-signed with the Knicks. That's obvious. And now that the Knicks missed out for top-3 in the lottery, the push is on by Knicks fans to unload him. It's really very sad. He doesn't deserve the BS. He has become the Ernie Banks of NY sports, buried on a loser. Except without the good feelings from fans that Chicagoans had for Banks.
RE: Phil and Melo will hang in there through next summer, I think.  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 12:18 pm : link
In comment 12302429 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
If things don't come together as hoped, I'm sure the Melo trade rumors will start. He'll wave that no-trade in a heartbeat to go chase a championship at the end of his career.


I am willing to bet Phil and Melo came to an agreement, saying if it doesnt come together or there is no promise and the team is not working we will work a trade...Melo probably asked for the no trade to make sure he doesnt get traded to a shit team....
If the right deal comes along  
Phil in LA : 5/27/2015 12:19 pm : link
they should -- but they haven't made a really good deal yet under Phil.
.  
Pep22 : 5/27/2015 12:29 pm : link
RE: I'd take
nygiants16 : 11:52 am : link : reply

In comment 12302357 Pep22 said:

Quote:
Jordan Clarkson and Julius Randle and the 27th pick for Melo


Thank god your not the GM

-->>> You always seem to struggle with things that aren't obvious so let me spell it out for you. The reason why I'd take those young, albeit less talented players for Melo, is that I think MAXing Melo was a huge mistake. The trade would allow a reset of that horrible decision, while picking up a few young assets.
ugh...  
Italianju : 5/27/2015 12:31 pm : link
god this shump/JR stuff is going to be so annoying for years to come. They look better on a better team, HOW SHOCKING. Players always look better playing with Lebron, maybe its his leadership, or maybe its because he is the greatest player on the planet.
It should be annoying for years to come  
AnotherGiantsFan : 5/27/2015 12:33 pm : link
It was a shitty trade. Our goal is to become a better team, if it was common sense that they are better players on better teams than we should have just kept them rather than give them away for zilch.
If you're going to maintain that it was a 'horrible decision'  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
I would like to know what makes it one?

They money that Anthony makes isn't stopping them from making other moves.
trading  
Old Dirty Beckham : 5/27/2015 12:37 pm : link
melo makes sense but he has a no trade clause and a trade kicker. The kind of package you'd want for Melo you'll be unable to obtain because he's not going to accept a trade to lottery type teams.

Even the lakers, if he wanted to be a laker he could have just signed there.

Melo is a really good player. Why not wait and see if Phil can build around him first?
nobody wanted them...  
Italianju : 5/27/2015 12:37 pm : link
and we wanted the cap space. We werent resinging shump this offseason anyway and i will 100% guarantee you he gets overpaid. He is just not that good and honestly hasnt even played that well. When he plays well its when his jumper is falling, the same as here, problem is he isnt a good enough shooter to only be good when he is shooting well.

As for JR, we have all seen him have stretches where he is good. We have also seen him go into month long funks. That has not changed, its not like he has been lighting the world on fire the whole time he has been in CLE.
We could've waited for 30 years and no one was all of a sudden  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/27/2015 12:38 pm : link
going to give up anything of value for JR Smith.
I cant wait for this...  
Italianju : 5/27/2015 12:39 pm : link
Knicks resign melo - "HORRIBLE move"
Knicks trade Melo to say HOU - "Glad we got rid of him for spare pieces and one asset should have never resigned him"
Melo plays well on HOU - "Why did we give him away, what a horrible decision, Jackson Sux"
I could not possibly care less about losing Shumpert  
AnotherGiantsFan : 5/27/2015 12:41 pm : link
I did think, however, trading JR was a fuck up. Or at the very least, acknowledge it for what it is. It was a tank move that also relieved cap space. There were comments on here at the time it happened like "Thank god someone took this guy". He's an asset that got traded as a negative asset.
I don't know about anyone else  
bceagle05 : 5/27/2015 12:43 pm : link
but I haven't given a second thought to JR, Shump or Chandler since the moment they were traded. I hope the Warriors bury the Cavs.
AGF...  
Italianju : 5/27/2015 12:45 pm : link
you got that on here because there were many people who didnt want to resign JR in the first place. Im not saying i was one, i was a JR supporter, but even i was ok with the trade. A guy with JRs past playing like he was on our crappy team was not going to increase in value and i guess the FO felt like having that extra 6 mill this offseason was worth more then having JR for next season. Im not sure i agree, but I def understand it.
RE: I could not possibly care less about losing Shumpert  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 12:46 pm : link
In comment 12302534 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I did think, however, trading JR was a fuck up. Or at the very least, acknowledge it for what it is. It was a tank move that also relieved cap space. There were comments on here at the time it happened like "Thank god someone took this guy". He's an asset that got traded as a negative asset.


Do you think that if they had held on to him, his value would've gone up? I agree that they traded him at a low value, but JR has had a toxic reputation for years. The only thin keeping him would've done is put the Knicks lower on the draft board.
RE: I don't know about anyone else  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/27/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12302544 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but I haven't given a second thought to JR, Shump or Chandler since the moment they were traded. I hope the Warriors bury the Cavs.


Me neither, but I was incensed when that imbecile JR Smith took a shot at the Knicks after the Bulls series. He's just a person of little character or intelligence. I hope the Warriors sweep them too.
RE: I could not possibly care less about losing Shumpert  
BeerFridge : 5/27/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12302534 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I did think, however, trading JR was a fuck up. Or at the very least, acknowledge it for what it is. It was a tank move that also relieved cap space. There were comments on here at the time it happened like "Thank god someone took this guy". He's an asset that got traded as a negative asset.


JR is both a negative asset and a positive asset - sometimes in the same game.

We will see who the Knicks can bring in this offseason with the cap money they saved in that deal.
How exactly  
MookGiants : 5/27/2015 12:48 pm : link
was JR Smith an asset when no one in the league wanted him?
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 12:53 pm : link
In comment 12302478 Pep22 said:
Quote:
RE: I'd take
nygiants16 : 11:52 am : link : reply

In comment 12302357 Pep22 said:

Quote:
Jordan Clarkson and Julius Randle and the 27th pick for Melo


Thank god your not the GM

-->>> You always seem to struggle with things that aren't obvious so let me spell it out for you. The reason why I'd take those young, albeit less talented players for Melo, is that I think MAXing Melo was a huge mistake. The trade would allow a reset of that horrible decision, while picking up a few young assets.


And let me spell it out for you..

The cap is going up so much they can add a max player this year along with a 10 million dollar player AND then another max next year...

So Melo's max contract after next year will seem like a discount because the salary cap is going up so much...

Oh yeah and the cap is going up again after the first bump so the Knicks will then have again 18 million in space...

So yes lets trade Melo for a couple of young players and a shitty pick...makes complete sense...

Ask the Hawks if they would of wanted Melo in the playoffs against the Cavs...

Regular season you can get away without having a superstar if you have the right mix of players BUT once the playoffs start you need a superstar...
RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 12:55 pm : link
In comment 12302583 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12302478 Pep22 said:


Quote:


RE: I'd take
nygiants16 : 11:52 am : link : reply

In comment 12302357 Pep22 said:

Quote:
Jordan Clarkson and Julius Randle and the 27th pick for Melo


Thank god your not the GM

-->>> You always seem to struggle with things that aren't obvious so let me spell it out for you. The reason why I'd take those young, albeit less talented players for Melo, is that I think MAXing Melo was a huge mistake. The trade would allow a reset of that horrible decision, while picking up a few young assets.



And let me spell it out for you..

The cap is going up so much they can add a max player this year along with a 10 million dollar player AND then another max next year...

So Melo's max contract after next year will seem like a discount because the salary cap is going up so much...

Oh yeah and the cap is going up again after the first bump so the Knicks will then have again 18 million in space...

So yes lets trade Melo for a couple of young players and a shitty pick...makes complete sense...

Ask the Hawks if they would of wanted Melo in the playoffs against the Cavs...

Regular season you can get away without having a superstar if you have the right mix of players BUT once the playoffs start you need a superstar...


also the problem with resetting, the Knicks can not afford to blow it up this year because they have no pick next year...so missing the playoffs would be a huge mistake...

If this is after next season and the team played like dog shit then i am all ofr trading Melo, but until then Melo is the player Phil is going to build around..
I can't wait till Golden State wipes the floor with the Cavs  
Stu11 : 5/27/2015 12:59 pm : link
all of this Shump/JR to the hall of fame will cease. Lebron can beat the shitty East all by himself, but the Warriors are a whole different animal. And please stop with these Trade Melo bullshit threads. Sure if the lakers would give us #2 for him you'd do it, but guess what THEY AREN'T. As the adults on the thread have pointed out, tearing the whole thing down is useless if you don't have a #1 next year, and no decent free agent in his right mind is coming to an empty roster.
RE: RE: I could not possibly care less about losing Shumpert  
AnotherGiantsFan : 5/27/2015 1:07 pm : link
In comment 12302561 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Do you think that if they had held on to him, his value would've gone up? I agree that they traded him at a low value, but JR has had a toxic reputation for years. The only thin keeping him would've done is put the Knicks lower on the draft board.


Draft slot is the only reason why I don't care about the trade. We decided to go full out tank mode, which is fine. I just didn't like the fan perspective of "I don't know how Phil managed to get rid of this guy but thank god he did". He was a head case, but he was an asset when motivated.
RE: RE: RE: I could not possibly care less about losing Shumpert  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 1:08 pm : link
In comment 12302610 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 12302561 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Do you think that if they had held on to him, his value would've gone up? I agree that they traded him at a low value, but JR has had a toxic reputation for years. The only thin keeping him would've done is put the Knicks lower on the draft board.



Draft slot is the only reason why I don't care about the trade. We decided to go full out tank mode, which is fine. I just didn't like the fan perspective of "I don't know how Phil managed to get rid of this guy but thank god he did". He was a head case, but he was an asset when motivated.


But nobody wanted him, the Knicks were trying to trade him for months and nobody wanted him...he even said he was opting in if he was still with the Knicks...the Knicks would have 19 million in cap space if JR was not moved...
They never should have dealt for Melo from denver  
Torrag : 5/27/2015 1:11 pm : link
Dolan demanded the trade and he owns the team. Unfortunately he's an incompetent dick. The Knicks are com-pletely dysfunctional. They have had good players here but have no idea how to build a team. Randolph/Gallinari/Shumpert/Smith/Mosgov and more....how many first round picks surrendered? The makings for a contending team have been in and out the door for years now.

Dolan should have left Donny alone to finish the rebuild he started. You can't have multiple visions building your franchise. It doesn't work. The truth is Dolan expected Donny to land Lebron. As unrealistic as that was when he failed and settled for Stats ticking time bomb of a knee his days were numbered working for him.
.  
Pep22 : 5/27/2015 1:17 pm : link
RE: .
nygiants16 : 12:53 pm : link : reply


Regular season you can get away without having a superstar if you have the right mix of players BUT once the playoffs start you need a superstar...

--> Right, I almost forgot about Melo's prodigious playoff success.
RE: They never should have dealt for Melo from denver  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 1:19 pm : link
In comment 12302628 Torrag said:
Quote:
Dolan demanded the trade and he owns the team. Unfortunately he's an incompetent dick. The Knicks are com-pletely dysfunctional. They have had good players here but have no idea how to build a team. Randolph/Gallinari/Shumpert/Smith/Mosgov and more....how many first round picks surrendered? The makings for a contending team have been in and out the door for years now.

Dolan should have left Donny alone to finish the rebuild he started. You can't have multiple visions building your franchise. It doesn't work. The truth is Dolan expected Donny to land Lebron. As unrealistic as that was when he failed and settled for Stats ticking time bomb of a knee his days were numbered working for him.


Donnie Walsh did an absolute horrible job as President...what was he doing that was so great? he built a middle of the road team that was going nowhere...
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 1:21 pm : link
In comment 12302647 Pep22 said:
Quote:
RE: .
nygiants16 : 12:53 pm : link : reply


Regular season you can get away without having a superstar if you have the right mix of players BUT once the playoffs start you need a superstar...

--> Right, I almost forgot about Melo's prodigious playoff success.


Right because Melo has had some super teams right? he took those Denver teams to the playoffs every single year in the western conference including his rookie year, he turned a team around that was horrible and turned them into a playoff team...

Sorry he couldnt beat the Spurs or Lakers in the playoffs by himself....

Do you give Chris Paul shit to? he has never made it to the western conference finals...

Something tells me you just do not like Melo...
Do you think Dolan told Donnie Walsh to draft Jordan Hill?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/27/2015 1:23 pm : link
Can't blame everything on the owner... sometimes people just do shitty jobs. This guy just happened to get a pass from the media.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hill has turned into a player.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 1:31 pm : link
.At the time, everybody wanted Brandon Jennings and that would've been a mistake too.

They should've taken DeRozan, but nobody was really saying that at the time.
RE: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hill has turned into a player.  
nygiants16 : 5/27/2015 1:35 pm : link
In comment 12302680 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.At the time, everybody wanted Brandon Jennings and that would've been a mistake too.

They should've taken DeRozan, but nobody was really saying that at the time.


It doesnt help when the coach says he is a crap rookie and he is not going to play him...

And who can forget after the Melo trade D'antoni saying they were releasing Brewer because they had no use for his skillset...
D'Antoni being bad is a full thread in itself.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2015 1:36 pm : link
.
Possible Melo trades for almost every team:  
giantsfan44ab : 5/27/2015 1:36 pm : link
Washington: Nene, Porter, Wesbter and 1st

Miami: 1st, Deng, Birdman and Mcroberts

Charlotte: Zeller, Biyombo, Vonleh, Stephenson and 1st

Houston: Dmo, capela, nick johnson, NO 1st, and Ariza

Phoenix: Marcus Morris, Brandon Knight, TJ Warren, Goodwin, and 1st

Utah: Exum, Hood, Burke, and 1st for Melo, Jose, and THJR

Sacramento: 1st, Williams, Stuaskas and McCallum

Orlando: 1st, Harris, Frye, Harkless, and Nicholson

Unless you find any of these intriguing (and the Utah and Orlando ones make you think for second), theres no tremendous market for Melo.

Why tank in a year we don't have a pick? If we give up Melo we should wait a year.
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