are blessings in disguise you might be thinking more long-term than some fans want to think.
If you're talking winning in 2015 (which is probably a long shot anyway) this team needs Beatty and Ayers. Need Flowers and Owa too, but rookies will make rookie mistakes and have rookie learning curves and those growing pains and curves are sometimes too much for a team without much depth at those two spots (OL and DL) to overcome.
we might just find out.
This is unbelievable. One lost in the weight room, one in a
are blessings in disguise you might be thinking more long-term than some fans want to think.
If you're talking winning in 2015 (which is probably a long shot anyway) this team needs Beatty and Ayers. Need Flowers and Owa too, but rookies will make rookie mistakes and have rookie learning curves and those growing pains and curves are sometimes too much for a team without much depth at those two spots (OL and DL) to overcome.
we might just find out.
pj - I disagree -- The Giants probably have to cut wood with a bunch more of the vets - and go to a youth movement -- I think that is today's NFL -- Green Bay - has it right -- you have to draft well, pick up good UFDA's and limit your FA acquisitions -- the Giants have been drafting well -- I would argue for the past three years - and have changed their player profile -- team composition has become so important -- Odi will be 2 or 3 times the player Ayres is - the sooner the better
you are optimistic and I like that and hope you're right, but Damontre Moore was a 3rd round pick entering year 3 and has shown very little other than an occasional flash, certainly not starter material.......yet
Jay Bromley was a 3rd round pick and could barely see the field.
Now Owa is the next of a trio of DL 3rd round picks and your expectation is starter from day 1 - replacing arguably the teams best pass rusher from last year?
I'm not saying Owa won't eventually be better than Ayers. I am saying you're relying on a 3rd round rookie to be plugged into a starting role and based on track record that's an unfair assumption.
I'm not sure how you can consider these injuries as a blessing in disguise. Injuries destroys positional completion & depth. Ayers was good situational pass rusher last. Beatty was fine last year. Sorry don't get how this can be considers a blessing.
He still got a year of starting on the interior line. He still got to learn the offense and the line calls. He still got to match up against NFL defensive tackles and learn what to expect as a pro.
I don't believe the team lost anything for richburg at guard. If anything next year should be easier for him because of it.
Ten Ton Hammer ... we'll agree to disagree on that. While he got to play, he would have been better off gaining experience as an NFL center and not playing out of position.
pjcas...there may be some growing pains with Flowers, but if the Giants are more likely to make a run in 2016 than 2015, then it's better to get him there now.
Ten Ton Hammer ... we'll agree to disagree on that. While he got to play, he would have been better off gaining experience as an NFL center and not playing out of position.
pjcas...there may be some growing pains with Flowers, but if the Giants are more likely to make a run in 2016 than 2015, then it's better to get him there now.
It would have been better for him at center, but it's not a waste at guard.
It's better than if he got no gametime experience at all.
Ten Ton Hammer ... we'll agree to disagree on that. While he got to play, he would have been better off gaining experience as an NFL center and not playing out of position.
pjcas...there may be some growing pains with Flowers, but if the Giants are more likely to make a run in 2016 than 2015, then it's better to get him there now.
I couldn't disagree more. Getting experience with live NFL action in watching blitz pickups, being a part of protection in this offense, etc...it's much more valuable than not playing.
A blessing in the sense that it forces the coaches to start the Flowers at LT transition now rather than next year. It expedites the process.
Last year, they never should have wasted a year with Richburg at LG.
Eric I understand what you are trying to say. But in Flowers you have a very young player who has to get acclaimed to NFL play & needs to work on his technique. Now having to protect Eli's blind side from day one, is alot of added pressure for a young kid.
As to Richberg he stayed at guard because there was no one else. If Schwartz hadn't been injured and / or Snee hadn't retired due to injury, don't you think Richberg would have become the starting center at some point?
The point of playing Walton was putting the best 5 lineman on the field at any one point. Walton was a disaster, but you have to believe the coaches saw something that told them that the best formation was with Richburg at G and Walton at C with the players they had. Its like patching a dam with gum.
I think they wanted Walton there because he was a veteran and they would be much more comfortable with him making the OL line calls. It's my understanding that in McAdoo's system, the center makes the OL calls, not Eli, who did that under Gilbride.
That said, one of the reasons why they drafted Richburg was they felt his intelligence set him apart from other centers in the draft.
I just feel like they would have been better off trying to find out more about some of the other OLs like Mosley and playing Richburg at his natural position.
Did Richburg benefit from playing? Of course. But I wish it had been at center.
would LG Mosley-OC Richburg been that much worse than LG Richburg-OC Walton?
Since Mosley has not come close to winning a spot, I would have to say yes, it could have been worse. Imo Mosley has a fight just to make the roster this year, unless there are more injuries.
If no injuries last year wouldn't the interior of
Schwartz / Richberg / Snee or Jerry been alot better. An ideal situation for a rookie center sandwiched between 2 vets.
Injuries just destroy your depth and really limits the possibilities.
Hixon said he initially thought he injured his right calf on his circus touchdown catch. Hixon even briefly returned to play in the third quarter before sitting out the rest of the game. He said he feels no pain in his knee and even appears to walk without a limp.
"There was no pain at all in my knee, that is why I was thinking it was my calf,"
this seems like foreshadowing for the year we will be having.. by week 16 i bet at least 3 starters aren't on this roster yet
..Walton was a waste last season. He didn't provide good play and did not help this team build for the future. Eric is right on this. Heck even if Mosley is a waste, they could have put Walton at G instead. Richburg got good experience starting and I am glad he did. It would have been better though if he got that at center.
Richburg playing at guard last year opposed to Center was nothing but an optic.
He was undoubtedly learning the line calls with the offense right alongside Walton every step of the way. He started at guard, but if anything happened to Walton, he would have been the backup center. It's not like he didn't prepare that way.
But he's played Center for years. He is a Center. The transition from college center to NFL center isn't that you have to re-learn the position. It's learning to recognize defenses, tendencies, and refining technique to a higher level. Those are things you can still do while playing guard.
it seemed like they felt obligated to play him even when he struggled the entire season. Injuries are going to happen but DL is the deepest position on the team.
I don't think it was an obligation to play Walton so much as
I will continue to mention that I truly believe this is closely related to strength and conditioning. The injuries we are seeing could be because...
1. Lifting too heavily without the appropriate rest.
2. Poor/insufficient stretching
3. Overall flexibility, not just the major muscle groups.
4. Over=training or under-training prior to OTA's
5. Medical team not closely monitoring every player for signs of weakness in muscles, etc
Last year we copied the "Navy Seal" routine that worked for Philly.
GPS's on the players body and wired to computer's determined practice time, water breaks, stretching breaks etc.
TC has tried everythng, been flexible and open. To write as if simple breaks and the absence of stretching was part of the regime is simply wrong.
Sometimes you flip a coin and it comes up heads five times in a row. On that sixth flip there no guaranteed compensation, the laws of probability says you're still at 50-50.
I laughed when I heard about the GPS. So knowing a player's location helps prevent injuries? I also did not say that stretching was absent.
Take Cruz's injury for example. I read as much as I could about it online. Most of what I found was that the tear occurs from being over-worked or it occurs after it has deteriorated. It just does not happen to a healthy tendon. I imagine that the doctors may have noticed something if there was a picture taken of his tendon at some point prior to the injury. One would say that his injury occurred the moment he went down in that game. I say that the injury occurred long before that day but it finally completely snapped that day.
TC on ayers hurt his knee and ankle..seems like ankle was worse
TC on ayers hurt his knee and ankle..seems like ankle was worse
Not just one injury, but two?
Coughlin on Ayers' injury: "We don't know much about it right now. Hopefully it's not too serious."
Coughlin said DE Robert Ayers hurt his ankle and his knee. Sounds like the ankle is more of a concern.
Next day, ACL tear.
If you're talking winning in 2015 (which is probably a long shot anyway) this team needs Beatty and Ayers. Need Flowers and Owa too, but rookies will make rookie mistakes and have rookie learning curves and those growing pains and curves are sometimes too much for a team without much depth at those two spots (OL and DL) to overcome.
we might just find out.
If you're talking winning in 2015 (which is probably a long shot anyway) this team needs Beatty and Ayers. Need Flowers and Owa too, but rookies will make rookie mistakes and have rookie learning curves and those growing pains and curves are sometimes too much for a team without much depth at those two spots (OL and DL) to overcome.
we might just find out.
pj - I disagree -- The Giants probably have to cut wood with a bunch more of the vets - and go to a youth movement -- I think that is today's NFL -- Green Bay - has it right -- you have to draft well, pick up good UFDA's and limit your FA acquisitions -- the Giants have been drafting well -- I would argue for the past three years - and have changed their player profile -- team composition has become so important -- Odi will be 2 or 3 times the player Ayres is - the sooner the better
Jay Bromley was a 3rd round pick and could barely see the field.
Now Owa is the next of a trio of DL 3rd round picks and your expectation is starter from day 1 - replacing arguably the teams best pass rusher from last year?
I'm not saying Owa won't eventually be better than Ayers. I am saying you're relying on a 3rd round rookie to be plugged into a starting role and based on track record that's an unfair assumption.
Last year, they never should have wasted a year with Richburg at LG.
I don't believe the team lost anything for richburg at guard. If anything next year should be easier for him because of it.
finding out if a guy can play might not help you win this year even if it helps long-term.
that was my point there could be some growing pains and they could absolutely impact 2015.
we should wait to hear about Ayers injury before throwing dirt on his grave. though the way the Giants injury luck has been I think we already know.
pjcas...there may be some growing pains with Flowers, but if the Giants are more likely to make a run in 2016 than 2015, then it's better to get him there now.
pjcas...there may be some growing pains with Flowers, but if the Giants are more likely to make a run in 2016 than 2015, then it's better to get him there now.
It would have been better for him at center, but it's not a waste at guard.
It's better than if he got no gametime experience at all.
How do you think Reese feels?
I don't think they're calling this a blessing in disguise.
even if it turns out to be one, and I definitely think it can, but it's a huge risk (obviously?)
pjcas...there may be some growing pains with Flowers, but if the Giants are more likely to make a run in 2016 than 2015, then it's better to get him there now.
I couldn't disagree more. Getting experience with live NFL action in watching blitz pickups, being a part of protection in this offense, etc...it's much more valuable than not playing.
Last year, they never should have wasted a year with Richburg at LG.
Eric I understand what you are trying to say. But in Flowers you have a very young player who has to get acclaimed to NFL play & needs to work on his technique. Now having to protect Eli's blind side from day one, is alot of added pressure for a young kid.
As to Richberg he stayed at guard because there was no one else. If Schwartz hadn't been injured and / or Snee hadn't retired due to injury, don't you think Richberg would have become the starting center at some point?
Walton was in the backfield so much I thought he moved to fullback
Sure...
The point of playing Walton was putting the best 5 lineman on the field at any one point. Walton was a disaster, but you have to believe the coaches saw something that told them that the best formation was with Richburg at G and Walton at C with the players they had. Its like patching a dam with gum.
That said, one of the reasons why they drafted Richburg was they felt his intelligence set him apart from other centers in the draft.
I just feel like they would have been better off trying to find out more about some of the other OLs like Mosley and playing Richburg at his natural position.
Did Richburg benefit from playing? Of course. But I wish it had been at center.
Since Mosley has not come close to winning a spot, I would have to say yes, it could have been worse. Imo Mosley has a fight just to make the roster this year, unless there are more injuries.
If no injuries last year wouldn't the interior of
Schwartz / Richberg / Snee or Jerry been alot better. An ideal situation for a rookie center sandwiched between 2 vets.
Injuries just destroy your depth and really limits the possibilities.
Hixon said he initially thought he injured his right calf on his circus touchdown catch. Hixon even briefly returned to play in the third quarter before sitting out the rest of the game. He said he feels no pain in his knee and even appears to walk without a limp.
"There was no pain at all in my knee, that is why I was thinking it was my calf,"
this seems like foreshadowing for the year we will be having.. by week 16 i bet at least 3 starters aren't on this roster yet
Fixed it
Link - ( New Window )
He was undoubtedly learning the line calls with the offense right alongside Walton every step of the way. He started at guard, but if anything happened to Walton, he would have been the backup center. It's not like he didn't prepare that way.
I understand.
But he's played Center for years. He is a Center. The transition from college center to NFL center isn't that you have to re-learn the position. It's learning to recognize defenses, tendencies, and refining technique to a higher level. Those are things you can still do while playing guard.
Hope you're right. Thanks for the info.
1. Lifting too heavily without the appropriate rest.
2. Poor/insufficient stretching
3. Overall flexibility, not just the major muscle groups.
4. Over=training or under-training prior to OTA's
5. Medical team not closely monitoring every player for signs of weakness in muscles, etc
GPS's on the players body and wired to computer's determined practice time, water breaks, stretching breaks etc.
TC has tried everythng, been flexible and open. To write as if simple breaks and the absence of stretching was part of the regime is simply wrong.
Sometimes you flip a coin and it comes up heads five times in a row. On that sixth flip there no guaranteed compensation, the laws of probability says you're still at 50-50.
Take Cruz's injury for example. I read as much as I could about it online. Most of what I found was that the tear occurs from being over-worked or it occurs after it has deteriorated. It just does not happen to a healthy tendon. I imagine that the doctors may have noticed something if there was a picture taken of his tendon at some point prior to the injury. One would say that his injury occurred the moment he went down in that game. I say that the injury occurred long before that day but it finally completely snapped that day.