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Does playing Justin Pugh at lg, help Flowers along at lt?

Ira : 5/28/2015 8:43 am
I was surprised seeing Pugh at guard with Beatty out. But it makes sense in a way. With Flowers being tried at lt as a rookie, it has to help having an ol with tackle feet like Pugh next to him. Pugh can more than hold his own in passing situations at guard. Maybe he can help deal with blitzes and inside moves that can confuse an inexperienced rookie, making the transition easier for Ereck Flowers.
For certain  
JonC : 5/28/2015 8:50 am : link
.
It has to help a lot more than putting Jerry next to him.  
nicky43 : 5/28/2015 8:51 am : link
Or even Schwartz for that matter because not telling how many games he'll last.

This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
BillT : 5/28/2015 8:54 am : link
AT G, C, G we have Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Schwartz. At the tackle spots we have Flowers, Newhouse and Bamiro. What wrong with this picture. Am I the only one to think 4 of our best 5 OLs are playing for the 3 spots in the middle. Are they really going to sit Jerry or Schwartz for Newhouse and make Bamiro the #1 backup at tackle?
They pretty clearly are banking on cohesion  
JonC : 5/28/2015 8:59 am : link
and leaving players at their best projected positions, which is what the Pugh move has been all about. Hopefully, the talent gels and they won't have to make any changes later in the season. They want more power at tackle, they're giving the swing tackle first crack at RT.

RT probably belongs to Newhouse unless he flops, and when Beatty is healthy we'll see if a battle develops. RT is not Beatty's best position, but if Flowers is solid at LT then Beatty will have to prove utility otherwise.
absolutely  
UConn4523 : 5/28/2015 9:00 am : link
the OL needs to be cohesive and a mediocre player can excel when a great player is playing next to him. If Pugh kills it at LG all that does is make Flower's life easier.
RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
giants#1 : 5/28/2015 9:02 am : link
In comment 12303738 BillT said:
Quote:
AT G, C, G we have Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Schwartz. At the tackle spots we have Flowers, Newhouse and Bamiro. What wrong with this picture. Am I the only one to think 4 of our best 5 OLs are playing for the 3 spots in the middle. Are they really going to sit Jerry or Schwartz for Newhouse and make Bamiro the #1 backup at tackle?


The problem with your picture, is that you think Jerry sitting on the bench is problematic.

That said, Schwartz has played RT before and could end up there if Jerry (or one of the other OGs) outperforms the other OT candidates during camp.
RE: RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
BillT : 5/28/2015 9:09 am : link
In comment 12303747 giants#1 said:
Quote:



The problem with your picture, is that you think Jerry sitting on the bench is problematic.

That said, Schwartz has played RT before and could end up there if Jerry (or one of the other OGs) outperforms the other OT candidates during camp.

Compared to Newhouse? As bad as you think Jerry is, Newhouse has shown less especially recently. The Schwartz to RT is an interesting thought though.
RE: RE: RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
Curtis in VA : 5/28/2015 9:15 am : link
In comment 12303758 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 12303747 giants#1 said:


Quote:





The problem with your picture, is that you think Jerry sitting on the bench is problematic.

That said, Schwartz has played RT before and could end up there if Jerry (or one of the other OGs) outperforms the other OT candidates during camp.


Compared to Newhouse? As bad as you think Jerry is, Newhouse has shown less especially recently. The Schwartz to RT is an interesting thought though.


whats even worse is that apparently, the Giants really like Newhouse. (Alarms sounding)
RE: RE: RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
giants#1 : 5/28/2015 9:16 am : link
In comment 12303758 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 12303747 giants#1 said:


Quote:





The problem with your picture, is that you think Jerry sitting on the bench is problematic.

That said, Schwartz has played RT before and could end up there if Jerry (or one of the other OGs) outperforms the other OT candidates during camp.


Compared to Newhouse? As bad as you think Jerry is, Newhouse has shown less especially recently. The Schwartz to RT is an interesting thought though.


Sure, compared to Charles Brown, Jerry looks good. My point is if Jerry ends up on the bench, it's a good thing, not something to lose sleep over.

I'm holding out hope one of the young guys (Mosley, Hermann, Jones, Hart, Bamiro, etc) shows enough to crack the opening day lineup at RG/RT with Schwartz manning the other spot. Long term, they really need to find another Diehl/Seubert to join the 3 high picks.
giants#1  
BillT : 5/28/2015 9:23 am : link
Mosley, Hermann, Jones, Hart, Bamiro, etc aren't cracking the starting lineup this year or maybe any other. It's between Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Schwartz and Newhouse. That much we know.
RE: giants#1  
giants#1 : 5/28/2015 9:26 am : link
In comment 12303781 BillT said:
Quote:
Mosley, Hermann, Jones, Hart, Bamiro, etc aren't cracking the starting lineup this year or maybe any other. It's between Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Schwartz and Newhouse. That much we know.


That's likely the case, but hopefully one of the long shots surprises. Wouldn't be the first time someone unexpected started, especially when the talent (Jerry/Newhouse) is subpar.
I really enjoyed Pugh's interview  
nicky43 : 5/28/2015 9:30 am : link
Eric posted the video and it's a good one. Justin is smart and gives intelligent answers even to dumb questions. He was asked, "Did you have to do anything different bodywise once they told you you were playing guard?" Love his answer; "Found out two weeks ago. Kinda hard to change your whole body composition in two weeks."

He has a great attitude and is approaching this challenge with the determination to be the best LG he can be.

Seems to me  
Spyder : 5/28/2015 9:36 am : link
the Giants decided to move Pugh to G after drafting Flowers and even Beatty getting hurt will not change their minds.

This OL was a mess up the middle last year, but fairly stable at the tackle spots. I think we should just leave Pugh at RT since he is our second best OT now without any question, but then again, I'm just a fan...

The idea is to limit the impact of the injury to one position  
UberAlias : 5/28/2015 9:39 am : link
Pugh was not in the plans for LT if everything had played out as expected. If you move him to LT than you are impacting at least two spots.

I can only speculate, but I would suggest Flowers would have been given at least some chance to compete for LT even had Beatty been here. They threw Flowers in the fire at LT right away in rookie camp and as a top 10 pick if he can handle the spot he was going to get his shot.

I agree with others -if things go as hoped, we are looking at a left side that may well anchor the spots from LT to OC through the remainder of Eli's career. The Beatty injury is probably accelerating things, but best to build cohesion now why you can. The good thing about the injury is that it happened early.
Uber  
JonC : 5/28/2015 9:48 am : link
Well said. The sum of its parts being greater than each individual, etc.
Assuming Flowers is holding up as a rookie LT.  
Watson : 5/28/2015 9:57 am : link
It appears to me, if the coaches wish to insert Beatty into the line when healthy, the 1st team yesterday would be the best case scenario. It would be only one move Beatty to RT. Not saying RT is Beatty best, but better option.

If Newhouse ( or one of the other tackles ) is not a good option, I would assume will see Schwartz at RT & probably Jerry at guard. Still not really disruptive, Schwartz back to guard.

Let's hope the rookie can meet the challenge.


Of course  
OC2.0 : 5/28/2015 10:05 am : link
Especially with their work ethic. If Flowers pans out those 2 could be 1 of the best left sides out there for years.
Watson  
JonC : 5/28/2015 10:13 am : link
Yup, that appears to be the strategy and the one I'd deploy as well.

At least one of young OT prospects now has a prime shot to make some noise and make the roster. Let's see if a Bamiro or Cleary or Donnelly is the goods.
Pugh says it will.  
Klaatu : 5/28/2015 10:16 am : link
Quote:
There are spots where I get to go help out a tackle, which I know what it is like to be out there on an island. My left tackle is going to love playing next to me.
Oops meant to answer the OP question in my above comment.  
Watson : 5/28/2015 10:18 am : link
I think it does help Flowers for many of the reasons already commented.

That said, I think the two of them playing next to each other from day one, will benefit both.

Yes. Pugh is a vet now and has a year under his belt in the new  
Victor in CT : 5/28/2015 10:21 am : link
offense.

And the comment from Pugh that klaatu posted says it all.
I have no clue what the problem with Mosley is  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/28/2015 10:37 am : link
The player coming out of college should have been a relatively easy projection to RT over some of the names being thrown around. Then again, so should Brewer have been.

This is not an implied criticism of the staff. Obviously this player has a perceived fatal flaw.
Yes, I get the Flowers, Pugh left side. What about the right side  
BillT : 5/28/2015 10:37 am : link
If Newhouse fails, and that's a 50/50 proposition I would think, whats the backup plan then. Moving a career guard like Schwartz there? Is your dream left side worth that possibility. And what's the success rate on that move? Another 50/50 shot?
Mosley and Brewer (especially Brewer) are Charmin soft.  
Victor in CT : 5/28/2015 10:45 am : link
They are just not good players
RE: Yes, I get the Flowers, Pugh left side. What about the right side  
Klaatu : 5/28/2015 10:51 am : link
In comment 12303977 BillT said:
Quote:
If Newhouse fails, and that's a 50/50 proposition I would think, whats the backup plan then. Moving a career guard like Schwartz there? Is your dream left side worth that possibility. And what's the success rate on that move? Another 50/50 shot?


You do what you can with what you've got.

The Giants seem intent on stabilizing the left side of the O-Line. That's a good thing.

The right side may be in flux for a while, but it's still very early.
It's still possible,  
Doomster : 5/28/2015 11:00 am : link
our RT is not on the roster yet....
Pugh has been outspoken  
KeoweeFan : 5/28/2015 11:12 am : link
about his lack of comfort on the right side after playing LT in college (first step, punch). Moving to LG overcomes that and gives the LT some experienced help.
I wouldn't be surprised if RG/RT still have to shake out. My "favortite" combo has Schwartz @ RT and a young planet theory big body @ RG. Love to see Hart in that spot by YE. (I'm ignoring what they do when Beatty comes back.)

Off Topic, but:
- Tom said Ayers injury came on the first play of scrimmage, and showed annoyance at the lack of understanding of the contact rules at this stage of the OTAs. "Shouldn't have happened."
- A picture from one of the writers yesterday showed the first play of scrimmage with Ayers tightly locked up with Flowers. Was Flowers the "bad boy" trying to show right off the bat that he belonged?
slow down  
jbeintherockies : 5/28/2015 11:34 am : link
They haven't even put pads on yet. The offensive line that they trotted out is preliminary; not set yet.

As for Pugh next to Flowers, Pugh hasn't played LG. Putting him next to a rook LT doesn't seem to help much in my eyes.
RE: It's still possible,  
Watson : 5/28/2015 11:41 am : link
In comment 12304026 Doomster said:
Quote:
our RT is not on the roster yet....


It's possible, but I would think the coaches would prefer identifying the RT quickly so the line gets plenty of playing time together.

Hopefully that player is someone other than Schwartz. Even without Beatty' s injury, imo the key to better overall OL play is the interior. I think Schwartz at guard is the best bet of that happening. If the interior, plays strong it will finally allow Eli to be able to step up consistently, and improve the running game. Both of those things will take the pressure off the tackles. It would be the best help you could give a rookie LT & whoever else is at RT.
I'd have thought  
mrvax : 5/28/2015 11:42 am : link
Pugh would want to try for the $ position of LOT. I read an AP report this morning that Pugh said he was looking forward to LG and excited to help Flowers get better at LOT!

This is actually very good news. If Flowers can actually hold his own (with Pugh's help) at LOT this year, I think that's fantastic moving forward.

Pugh could probably play 4 Oline positions if he masters guard.
See what happened to the Dolphins last year  
Ivan15 : 5/28/2015 11:49 am : link
Dolphins signed Brandon Albert for LT in free agency last year then overreached by drafting Ja'wan James #19 as their future LT, plugged James in as RT for the season. I think this is the same thing the Giants were planning.

When Albert got hurt, they moved James to LT and the offense was fine (maybe even improved). Now with Albert back, James has moved back to RT, probably for the duration of Albert's contract, but at least now they know James can be a good LT.

There's too much hand wringing going on. The Giants will work this out, despite BBI consensus.
I think there are a couple of things to it and hope there are others  
SLIM_ : 5/28/2015 11:53 am : link
They really think that Flowers is going to be able to hold down the fort but they want a reliable (health) veteran next to him. I also think that in an emergency, Pugh can go to left tackle and not have to relearn his stance or that side of the line calls.

I'm all for flexibility but people shouldn't have to learn every position. Here is what I would like to see.

- Flowers : left tackle and that is it. They are confident in him. He should start there and entrench himself for the next 10 years.
- Pugh - see above.
- Richburg - focus on center and maybe spend some (very little) time at left guard.
- Jerry - left and right guard.
- Schwartz - right guard/tackle.
- Newhouse - both tackles.

That allows for some flexibility.
Jerry should not even be in the discussion  
Mr. Nickels : 5/28/2015 12:43 pm : link
and really shouldn't even make the team. He is that bad.

I am very disappointed in our depth but you have to start somewhere. I love Flowers at LT but with Pugh as a guard now and no Beatty our tackles look extremely weak on paper.
So we  
Mr. Nickels : 5/28/2015 12:50 pm : link
really still have a need at Right Tackle now (especially for the future) and soon enough RG. But it will be nice to have 3 positions from left to center locked down with top draft picks.
Billy Ard is probably the last low round (8th rd 1981) OL to start  
Victor in CT : 5/28/2015 1:01 pm : link
for the Giants in his first year, so it's a long shot, but boy would I love to see Bobby Hart make some noise in camp at RG. The guy is a monster. If they could clean up his foot work he could be a beast.
RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
dguy901 : 5/28/2015 2:00 pm : link
In comment 12303738 BillT said:
Quote:
AT G, C, G we have Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Schwartz. At the tackle spots we have Flowers, Newhouse and Bamiro. What wrong with this picture. Am I the only one to think 4 of our best 5 OLs are playing for the 3 spots in the middle. Are they really going to sit Jerry or Schwartz for Newhouse and make Bamiro the #1 backup at tackle?

As it stands, Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz are starters (G-C-G), Flowers and Newhouse are the starting OG's and Bamiro is a B/U OT. Moselet, Gettis, Cleary and Reynalds are not starters either. What is your point?
RE: RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
dguy901 : 5/28/2015 2:01 pm : link
In comment 12304490 dguy901 said:
Quote:
In comment 12303738 BillT said:


Quote:


AT G, C, G we have Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Schwartz. At the tackle spots we have Flowers, Newhouse and Bamiro. What wrong with this picture. Am I the only one to think 4 of our best 5 OLs are playing for the 3 spots in the middle. Are they really going to sit Jerry or Schwartz for Newhouse and make Bamiro the #1 backup at tackle?


As it stands, Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz are starters (G-C-G), Flowers and Newhouse are the starting OG's and Bamiro is a B/U OT. Moselet, Gettis, Cleary and Reynalds are not starters either. What is your point?

Meant Flowers and Newhouse are the starting OT's
RE: RE: This is what I don't get about the OL personnel  
BillT : 5/28/2015 3:08 pm : link
In comment 12304490 dguy901 said:
Quote:
In comment 12303738 BillT said:


Quote:


AT G, C, G we have Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Schwartz. At the tackle spots we have Flowers, Newhouse and Bamiro. What wrong with this picture. Am I the only one to think 4 of our best 5 OLs are playing for the 3 spots in the middle. Are they really going to sit Jerry or Schwartz for Newhouse and make Bamiro the #1 backup at tackle?


As it stands, Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz are starters (G-C-G), Flowers and Newhouse are the starting OG's and Bamiro is a B/U OT. Moselet, Gettis, Cleary and Reynalds are not starters either. What is your point?


As I said: "Am I the only one to think 4 of our best 5 OLs are playing for the 3 spots in the middle." and "Are they really going to sit Jerry or Schwartz for Newhouse and make Bamiro the #1 backup at tackle?" What's yours?
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