AAA-
Rivera 0-3, BB
Tovar 0-3, BB
Pill 4 innings 12 hits 7 runs 1 walk 2 k's
AA
Cecchini 0-3, 2 BB
King 0-5, 2 K
Boyd 0-2, 2 BB
Gee 6.1 innings 5 hits 3 runs 2 earned 2 walks 4 k's
Koch 1.2 innings 3 hits 0 runs 0 walks 1 k
Sewald 1 perfect
A+
McNeil 1-4,SB,K (should be promoted)
TDA 0-3
Conforto 1-4
Smith 2-3, 2b
Rosario 0-3
Stuart 1-3, K
L. Taylor 6 inninga 5 hits 4 runs 4 walks 2 k's
Regnault 2 innings 1 hit 0 runs 0 walks 3 k's
Coles 1 inning 1 hit 0 runs 3 k's
A
Meisner 7 innings 4 hits 2 runs 2 walks 5 k's (intriguing arm, project)
Guillorme 1-5
Garcia 1-4, 2 k
Becerra 1-4, 2b, K
Who would he replace? - Muno?
Drooling at the point of next season with harvey, noah, jake, matz, and wheeler
Quote:
Could Matt Reynolds be on the way to the bigs? Didn't play last night, pitchers pinch hit over using him #mets
Who would he replace? - Muno?
Most likely. Just seems strange pitchers would PH + Lawley didn't play for AA... just guessing on my part. Maybe I'm wrong, very possibly I'm wrong.
Drooling at the point of next season with harvey, noah, jake, matz, and wheeler
It was strange they pushed Gant so hard in the first place.
I dont think he is part of the 40 man roster.
Also, I hope Gsellman is part of the next wave of Mets pitching prospects. It seems bare after Matz and Montero
He has to be better than Ceciliani
He has to be better than Ceciliani
60 day DL
Quote:
that he 's so bad to the point that he can t even warm the bench for the Mets?
He has to be better than Ceciliani
60 day DL
how sad, given the gaping hole on the bench and backup OF spot. What was his injury?
Black apparently is going to be back very, very soon. Parnell supposedly touched 97 last appearance so we will see about those 2. My guess is Robles/Goeddel are the ones who lose their spots initially. Doesn't sound like Blevins will be back anytime soon (late June/July last I heard). Mejia will be out for a while. I suspect Parnell/Black replace Robles/Goedell, not sure it's such a great swap but I guess we will find out?
Its possible but I feel its unlikely.
Agreed. Only reason I can think they would call up Reynolds now. They found out Wright will need to miss months or something along those lines. I guess Murphy can move to third and Reynolds could play second.
And even so.
Mets should still have Montero as an insurance policy or a trade chip almost immediately.
In AA, Lugo, Gsellman, Ynoa, and Fulmer all have different levels of intrigue. One or two could emerge.
In A ball Wiek, Meisner, Molina ect are on the way.
We don't have 5 more Harvey's on the way or anything yet but I wouldn't say its barren.
And even so.
Mets should still have Montero as an insurance policy or a trade chip almost immediately.
In AA, Lugo, Gsellman, Ynoa, and Fulmer all have different levels of intrigue. One or two could emerge.
In A ball Wiek, Meisner, Molina ect are on the way.
We don't have 5 more Harvey's on the way or anything yet but I wouldn't say its barren.
TJ expected for Molina, Wieck likely a reliever per BA and Ynoa has been absolutely awful (and not good in AA last year).
Link - ( New Window )
2 time TJ for Hefner. History is very poor with those types and quite frankly outside of a great run of 5-6 starts he's not good. 4.14 FIP career, 4.49 his last healthy season here.
He still has a good fastball and could theoretically improve. There is zero rush whatsoever. A whole year from now its impossible Ynoa could be a 5th starter candidate?? I beg to differ. And I said one or two of Ynoa, Fulmer, Lugo, and Gsellman could emerge and ALL should be in AAA next year. I never said ALL would.
Exactly. Its a non issue. We have zero need for more pitching outside of acquiring more trade chips and wont for quite some time.
He still has a good fastball and could theoretically improve. There is zero rush whatsoever. A whole year from now its impossible Ynoa could be a 5th starter candidate?? I beg to differ. And I said one or two of Ynoa, Fulmer, Lugo, and Gsellman could emerge and ALL should be in AAA next year. I never said ALL would.
Ynoa was equally bad last year in AA as well
2014 66 innings 74 hits 12 walks 42 k's
The sample size is starting to become quite significant ( 19 starts). Jeff P noted he "didn't look right" this spring, possibly hurt.
Link - ( New Window )
He still has a good fastball and could theoretically improve. There is zero rush whatsoever. A whole year from now its impossible Ynoa could be a 5th starter candidate?? I beg to differ. And I said one or two of Ynoa, Fulmer, Lugo, and Gsellman could emerge and ALL should be in AAA next year. I never said ALL would.
Who cares about pre-season "just miss" lists? Domingo Tapia was once a top 10 prospect in the system, Dominic Smith was Keith Law's #50 overall prospect in baseball at this time last year. Ynoa has been horrendous. That's a fact.
Quote:
Ynoa has been horrendous in his first 6 weeks of 2015. This past off-season he was getting national recognition and was on "just miss" lists.
He still has a good fastball and could theoretically improve. There is zero rush whatsoever. A whole year from now its impossible Ynoa could be a 5th starter candidate?? I beg to differ. And I said one or two of Ynoa, Fulmer, Lugo, and Gsellman could emerge and ALL should be in AAA next year. I never said ALL would.
Ynoa was equally bad last year in AA as well
2014 66 innings 74 hits 12 walks 42 k's
The sample size is starting to become quite significant ( 19 starts). Jeff P noted he "didn't look right" this spring, possibly hurt.
Well that could be. I'm just saying he's been highly regarded for quite some time. Its not impossible he could still figure it out at some point. Players have also gotten better working with both Viola and Warthen at the higher levels.
@jeffpaternostro @Radickey_ebooks Have you seen him up close this year? Stuff wise not good?
0 retweets 0 favorites
Jeffrey Paternostro @jeffpaternostro May 27
@WexlerRules @Radickey_ebooks Yeah, saw him in April, everything looked down.
0 retweets 0 favorites
Jeffrey Paternostro @jeffpaternostro May 27
@WexlerRules @Radickey_ebooks If he was still just not missing bats, I would read more into it, but control was below-avg.
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
@WexlerRules @Radickey_ebooks I would not be shocked if Ynoa is pitching hurt as well.
lol. Nobody's saying he's had a good start. I just dont see how you go from "sleeper" stud to non-prospect in 6 weeks but that's just me.
Possible. But also possible he's not good enough. We can't go both ways with the PCL and say "Thor and Matz are dominating in the PCL!" and then say "it's okay Bowman has been AWFUL". 5.93 FIP, 4.95 K/9 is horrendous even in Coors field vs. Major leaguers let alone AAA. I'm guessing he's pitching hurt however.
He's the one it made sense to trade.
Keep Harvey, Thor, deGRom, Matz, and Montero, plug in if you have to a Niese, Gee, cheaper Colon, but Wheeler is the guy they should have been able to trade.
f-ing injuries.
Quote:
has been pitching batting practice in Vegas but I wouldn't be surprised to see him figure it out and have a solid second half either. I totally see him being another "Gee Type" at some point.
Possible. But also possible he's not good enough. We can't go both ways with the PCL and say "Thor and Matz are dominating in the PCL!" and then say "it's okay Bowman has been AWFUL". 5.93 FIP, 4.95 K/9 is horrendous even in Coors field vs. Major leaguers let alone AAA. I'm guessing he's pitching hurt however.
Why cant we? It just means Syndergaard and Matz are THAT good. Every pitcher should be excused somewhat in the PCL. But I dont even think that's the issue with Bowman. He needs to adjust to a higher level and will eventually in my opinion. Nobody is comparing Bowman to Thor/Matz lol.
The former first-round pick and top-notch prospect is now living up to expectations. With each performance in his second season in the majors, Wheeler is providing evidence that he is an ace in bloom.
Link - ( New Window )
Thor won't be eligible, Matz won't be eligible, Montero won't be eligible, Herrera likely won't be, Plawecki could go either way. Almost no chance.
He's still projectable too. No way he's a finished product. You could see him flashing towards the end of 2014. There was a complete game shutout(Marlins?) where he legit looked like Harvey. And we are asking this kid to be our "5".
Hang on to Montero too and make him our permanent 6. Good times.
Thor won't be eligible, Matz won't be eligible, Montero won't be eligible, Herrera likely won't be, Plawecki could go either way. Almost no chance.
Eh. I'm not guaranteeing it but yeah I still think we'll be pretty high. It depends. We really don't know yet who's graduating and who's not. Why don't you say where you think they'll be and we'll see who's closer.
I know... the team is jacked with talent for the rest of the decade. Who cares about this anyway?
Hey, if I had my way he would be here today. Talk about a pitcher wasting bullets....
The former first-round pick and top-notch prospect is now living up to expectations. With each performance in his second season in the majors, Wheeler is providing evidence that he is an ace in bloom. Link - ( New Window )
Whipping boy? WTF are you reading? He's valuable. You have to trade value to get value.
even the SF Giants teams loaded with pitching had a couple hitters, the Mets lineup is barren if you're waiting for Grandy to get hot or Wright to come back and be his old self you'll be waiting for the next generation of Harvey, Wheeler, DeGrom, Thor, Matz before seeing a title.
There is no whipping boy here unless you feel a need to play victim and then go right ahead, I suggested Wheeler would have been perfect to trade because a) I don't think he's as good as Harvey or Thor, b) he likely has more value than deGrom due to age and pedigree and c) Matz is lefty.
but whatever. keep them all and eat your popcorn while the Mets are slightly above .500
And Matz and Wheeler aren't in the current rotation either. The rotation should go from fantastic now to positively bananas in 2016.
And Matz and Wheeler aren't in the current rotation either. The rotation should go from fantastic now to positively bananas in 2016.
Ok.
I do not think the Mets are championship contenders with this team. My point was the could have been or could have been closer if they had dealt a healthy Wheeler for a stud OFer.
you disagree, fine, but we will never know, since of course Wheeler had TJ and when and if he returns is a question mark and his trade value is nearly 100% diminished.
those "loaded position prospects" which I'm not so sure about, are not helping in 2015 and I think the Mets could be a contender in 2015 with some lineup adjustments.
If the Mets had a Kris Bryant or Mike Trout or Giancarlo Stanton in the minors I'd agree, but Nimmo certainly doesn't project that way, and Conforto might but he's in A ball, you have to have someone in the lineup that strikes fear in the opponent.
the Mets have Duda who is insanely hot right now, but will cool off and no one else like that.
So my point is the same way the Mets got Wheeler, they could have dished him for that same asset (though not Beltran - a much younger Beltran).
you are seeing it right now, the Mets are playing this entire season without Wheeler, have Matz in the wings, and COULD have been doing this with a young Mookie Betts (or someone like that) also on the team.
That was my point, and it's moot.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
But the Mets are 7 games over .500 without two massive bats in their lineup and their hitters only just starting to heat up. We are loaded in position prospects that should only further bolster the roster in upcoming years.
And Matz and Wheeler aren't in the current rotation either. The rotation should go from fantastic now to positively bananas in 2016.
Ok.
I do not think the Mets are championship contenders with this team. My point was the could have been or could have been closer if they had dealt a healthy Wheeler for a stud OFer.
you disagree, fine, but we will never know, since of course Wheeler had TJ and when and if he returns is a question mark and his trade value is nearly 100% diminished.
those "loaded position prospects" which I'm not so sure about, are not helping in 2015 and I think the Mets could be a contender in 2015 with some lineup adjustments.
I think the Mets are a contender now. Especially if they get TDA and Wright back healthy. Maybe not in the Cardinals, Nats, and Dodgers class but certainly in the wild card Giants/Cubs class. Duda is easily one of the best hitters in baseball at this point. If Wright doesn't come back than yes we need to do something... But I think we will. The best is yet to come.... Even this year. And if we get in with the wild card... Nobody is wanting to face Harvey, Thor, Matz, deGrom in the playoffs. Nobody. We just have to get there.
Link - ( New Window )
I was saying if the Mets had a Bryant like player in the minors then I wouldn't trade anyone, I'd sit back and eat popcorn like HH.
I think this team is a young hitter away. And Wheeler could have returned that young hitter. Not Bryant. But I could see a Wheeler + package for Betts or Rusney Castillo or someone like that (and to be clear - Betts has been pretty medicore to bad, but I think he'll be great).
And I would count on zero from Wright this year.
Lastly, I completely agree HH, just a few years ago amid the dread and bleakness I picked 2015 as the year I had expectations to be a contender not just hopes, but expectations. And I hope they are.
just planning for the worst.
you forgot Roy Oswalt. What a rotation, on paper, until injuries got them
4 ACES - ( New Window )
they should find the next big Cuban slugger, hopefully he plays the OF or 3B
Great point HH, the Phillies team with Halladay, Hamels and Lee (also had Oswalt) and LOST in the NLDS, not even the NLCS or WS.
and they had a lineup with Howard, Utley (injured, but played 100 games), Ibanez, Rollins, Victorino, Pence, Ruiz all closer to their primes
the Mets can't touch the lineup.
Quote:
Was ever bringing back Bryant. Come on... They would have asked for our entire system.
I was saying if the Mets had a Bryant like player in the minors then I wouldn't trade anyone, I'd sit back and eat popcorn like HH.
I think this team is a young hitter away. And Wheeler could have returned that young hitter. Not Bryant. But I could see a Wheeler + package for Betts or Rusney Castillo or someone like that (and to be clear - Betts has been pretty medicore to bad, but I think he'll be great).
And I would count on zero from Wright this year.
Lastly, I completely agree HH, just a few years ago amid the dread and bleakness I picked 2015 as the year I had expectations to be a contender not just hopes, but expectations. And I hope they are.
just planning for the worst.
That's cool. I just think we are reasonably set up at every position. We dont have Trout, Stanton, Bryant like you said(who does?) but we have talent at the exact positions we likely will need an infusion over the next couple of seasons(2B, LF, RF, SS). I think people are underestimating how good our rotation can be. This might be a generational type rotation similar to what the Braves had in the 90s. I also think you are underselling the lineup. Duda is the bat we've been dreaming on. We got him. Flores, Duda, TDA, and Murphy are all solid players and in Flores and TDA's case should only get better. Granderson and Cuddyer are solid. We'll see about Wright but if he does come back the lineup is essentially fine. That lineup looks a hell of a lot better than what the Giants were throwing out there when they were dousing themselves in champagne for WS 1.
Quote:
They threw out Halladay, Hamels & Lee, and that was that
Great point HH, the Phillies team with Halladay, Hamels and Lee (also had Oswalt) and LOST in the NLDS, not even the NLCS or WS.
and they had a lineup with Howard, Utley (injured, but played 100 games), Ibanez, Rollins, Victorino, Pence, Ruiz all closer to their primes
the Mets can't touch the lineup.
The Giants are a much better example of a team that has won with stellar, dominant pitching and mediocre lineups and they've done it three times over(I know their lineups were better of late)
Halladay, Hamels, Clif Lee, Roy Oswalt, Joe Blanton
and they didn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs.
and the Phillies lineup isn't close to the Mets it was twice as good.
I'm just saying the Mets need a hitter and I don't think waiting on internal options is going to cut it.
Hanson with the Giants - ( New Window )
I do agree with this, but I believe there is a minimal level of offense you need and I'm not sure the Mets are there, but usually you play great D, and other than Lagares not sure of anyone on the Mets I'd say plays great D.
Halladay, Hamels, Clif Lee, Roy Oswalt, Joe Blanton
and they didn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs.
and the Phillies lineup isn't close to the Mets it was twice as good.
I'm just saying the Mets need a hitter and I don't think waiting on internal options is going to cut it.
Kind of a strange example considering they DID win a WS with essentially that group. Not everything is going to go perfect every year. That rotation was old as time too except for Hamels. It's not like those 4 were all in their young 20s like we are about to have. I'm pretty sure Utley was injured that year too although I'm too lazy to look it up.
Quote:
in recent history.
Halladay, Hamels, Clif Lee, Roy Oswalt, Joe Blanton
and they didn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs.
and the Phillies lineup isn't close to the Mets it was twice as good.
I'm just saying the Mets need a hitter and I don't think waiting on internal options is going to cut it.
Kind of a strange example considering they DID win a WS with essentially that group. Not everything is going to go perfect every year. That rotation was old as time too except for Hamels. It's not like those 4 were all in their young 20s like we are about to have. I'm pretty sure Utley was injured that year too although I'm too lazy to look it up.
Essentially that same group? Neither Halladay or Lee or Oswalt were on the WS team.
no clue what you're talking about.
But the lineup did have Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jason Werth, Shane Victorino, Pat Burrell, Jimmy Rollins, Carlos Ruiz, etc..
the Phillies lineup though
Quote:
be absolutely STUNNED if the Mets have a top 10 system next year. Gentleman's bet? Law and BA both do organizational rankings, either/or?
Thor won't be eligible, Matz won't be eligible, Montero won't be eligible, Herrera likely won't be, Plawecki could go either way. Almost no chance.
Eh. I'm not guaranteeing it but yeah I still think we'll be pretty high. It depends. We really don't know yet who's graduating and who's not. Why don't you say where you think they'll be and we'll see who's closer.
I say the Mets system ranks in the 16+ range next system, you say top 10. Again, no animosity here, gentleman's bet. But who are we using? Keith Law + BA average? or what? I think BP does this too, we can add theirs as well if you prefer?
Granderson and Cuddyer are in the 15 worst defensive outfielders in the NL (bottom 3rd of all defensive OFers). Flores has a negative grade, Duda is negative. all according to Fangraphs.
Who is positive? Lagares like I said, and Murphy, barely. Didn't check, but pretty sure neither catcher is a defensive stalwart, 3b is incomplete.
there is rose colored glasses which I can appreciate and then there's delusion.
Quote:
In comment 12304404 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
be absolutely STUNNED if the Mets have a top 10 system next year. Gentleman's bet? Law and BA both do organizational rankings, either/or?
Thor won't be eligible, Matz won't be eligible, Montero won't be eligible, Herrera likely won't be, Plawecki could go either way. Almost no chance.
Eh. I'm not guaranteeing it but yeah I still think we'll be pretty high. It depends. We really don't know yet who's graduating and who's not. Why don't you say where you think they'll be and we'll see who's closer.
I say the Mets system ranks in the 16+ range next system, you say top 10. Again, no animosity here, gentleman's bet. But who are we using? Keith Law + BA average? or what? I think BP does this too, we can add theirs as well if you prefer?
See that's my point. The way you were acting it seemed like we were a complete barrin wasteland after all the graduations(25-30) 16 wouldn't be that bad considering the talent at the ML level. That's fine. You say 16. I say 10. We'll see who's closer. We can compare BA and Law. No animosity at all.
My apologies, Flores leads the team defensively, higher than Lagares. He's negative offensively.
B-Mets manager Pedro Lopez said team expected to add two position players, but hadn't gotten word on who the two were going to be yet. #Mets
McNeil should be the other
Quote:
Isn't a single position we are weak at defensively right now except RF and that's only because of Granderson's arm. Murphy and Cuddyer are completely exceeding expectations.
Granderson and Cuddyer are in the 15 worst defensive outfielders in the NL (bottom 3rd of all defensive OFers). Flores has a negative grade, Duda is negative. all according to Fangraphs.
Who is positive? Lagares like I said, and Murphy, barely. Didn't check, but pretty sure neither catcher is a defensive stalwart, 3b is incomplete.
there is rose colored glasses which I can appreciate and then there's delusion.
First of all, Flores is well in the positive. Second of all, you can't just rank all players that qualify and site players in the bottom half or third as a negative. Out of 18 players, 17 might be good defensively for example. 0 is what constitutes average defense at the position. Flores, Lagares, Duda, TDA, and Murphy are all in the positive. Cuddyer is a cunt hair below which is outstanding for him. Like I said, really only Granderson is hurting us and if he was in LF he'd likely grade positive as well.
He isn't. We all know he's been great. They likely punish him because of his range but even he is grading close to average which is great considering his size. I have zero complaints with Duda's defense.
Yes. Thanks for pointing that out as well. And I agree we aren't a "very good" defensive team either but we aren't a "very bad" one either.
Small sample but TDA was getting rave reviews for improving his defense early this season and the numbers back that up. Wright and TDA returning would likely bolster our defense as well.
Exactly, that's why, like Dan said, first baseman rarely grade in the positive. Dominic Smith might some day.
Conforto is getting fast tracked. He is coming in late 2016!
amd trade off Granderson next spring!
He underwent lumbar spinal fusion surgery that May to address the pressure on a spinal nerve.
It took Lugo a while to get back since he needed surgery, but he seems to be doing fine now with it past him. He is 7 years younger than wright, but i still don't consider 32 that old.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/102344/farm-report-seth-lugo-off-to-quick-start-with-b-mets - ( New Window )
Quote:
I didnt really feel much pain in my back besides a few back spasms here and there, Lugo said. All the pain was from my hip all the way down to my toes. My whole right leg was just really painful, just like someone was stabbing me all over.
He underwent lumbar spinal fusion surgery that May to address the pressure on a spinal nerve.
It took Lugo a while to get back since he needed surgery, but he seems to be doing fine now with it past him. He is 7 years younger than wright, but i still don't consider 32 that old. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/102344/farm-report-seth-lugo-off-to-quick-start-with-b-mets - ( New Window )
Better hope not. Lugo lost a full year of time to this surgery. If this is Wright's situation you'd be looking at All-star break 2016.
ok. got it.
someone goes, with the 6-man rotation Gilmartin would make 14 pitchers. that's absurd and if it's not a 6-man rotation then Gee is in the pen.
If the six man rotation sticks, the team may only go with six in the pen as well.
ok. got it.
Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.
Quote:
advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"
ok. got it.
Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.
How so? I sadistically read through a multi-day argument between you and someone else saying with you saying that Kirk N was a "very good" player because fangraphs said his war was X and extrapolated over a season that made his WAR Y which is good, so stats don't lie.
that's what you hung your hat on despite the fact we all watched how downright miserable he was batting less than 100 (yes, less than 100 - Bartolo Colon territory; actually less than Bartolo to be honest) and striking out almost half of his at-bats.
now with Duda frangraphs say his defense is negative. Not ok, but negative and your answer is "we all see he's good defensively".
Do you see the hypocrisy in yourself? Do you see the lack of credibility you have?
yes sure, my argument is hysterically weak. can't have it both ways.
It's been so interesting watching this regime's prospects develop. I'm sure all of us have paid the daily farm reports a lot more attention over the last few years since there wasn't much else positive going on, I know I have, and for me personally it's been fascinating to see everything play out. None of this regimes picks were regarded as super toolsy guys, but all of them have seemed to consistently show positive signs, improve, and appropriately developed as they've aged.
But the key difference between the 2014-15 Mets and any Mets team I've been watching over the last 20 years is my belief that the talent going into the system is actually going to develop. Year after year we had Milleges, Escobars etcs of the world who just never panned out for skills/injury reasons. The Mets system right now is just doing a better job than I can ever remember in the key period BETWEEN acquisition and MLB debut.
will be solid not great players that will have productive careers
Garin blasted his way through to A+ even AA to some extent, but has kind of stalled and hasn't ascended the Red Sox prospect chart like they expected.
Gavin, drafted three round ahead almost immediately was labeled "bustini" by certain BBI mets fans and has his neede turning in the opposite direction.
People don't realize sometimes when you draft an 18 year old (like Nimmo or Cecchini or Dom Smith) there is so much projection.
it's why baseball players bust so often.
those three all can still bust, but to me 19/20 years old was too soon to give up on Cecchini (or Smith) like a lot of fans do.
for me I think back to myself at that age and laugh. I was struggling to get people to buy beer for me and these guys have to worry about message board posters calling then "bustini" or if they're developing power like expected for a corner infielder. LOL.
Quote:
In comment 12305061 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"
ok. got it.
Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.
How so? I sadistically read through a multi-day argument between you and someone else saying with you saying that Kirk N was a "very good" player because fangraphs said his war was X and extrapolated over a season that made his WAR Y which is good, so stats don't lie.
that's what you hung your hat on despite the fact we all watched how downright miserable he was batting less than 100 (yes, less than 100 - Bartolo Colon territory; actually less than Bartolo to be honest) and striking out almost half of his at-bats.
now with Duda frangraphs say his defense is negative. Not ok, but negative and your answer is "we all see he's good defensively".
Do you see the hypocrisy in yourself? Do you see the lack of credibility you have?
yes sure, my argument is hysterically weak. can't have it both ways.
Dude. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but you are completely going off the rails today and your lack of understanding in SABR and metrics in general is astounding. When I cited Kirk's WAR last year it was because I was trying to show that in a limited time he was an effective player in 2014, if not downright good. In other words, he had a good 2014. In 2015 he sucked and now he's gone. I don't know what there is to discuss here. What point are you trying to make?
As for the discussion today. Looking at the metrics for all of our starters only Granderson is really hurting us as Ive said countless times. As Dan pointed out, 1st base is a negative position typically so even Duda grades out very well this year. And I could give two fucks if you don't find me credible. You clearly don't know your ass from your elbow in regards to any of this.
will be solid not great players that will have productive careers
Yeah I'd agree. I don't follow how the Cardinals draft so I'm not sure that's a concerted effort they've made (Giants/Red Sox too for that matter) but those are the types of guys that seemed to always win with over the past decade, in addition to great pitching. Though each of those teams also supplemented their rosters with key acquisitions like Pence, Holliday, Manny, etc.
Quote:
In comment 12305074 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 12305061 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"
ok. got it.
Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.
How so? I sadistically read through a multi-day argument between you and someone else saying with you saying that Kirk N was a "very good" player because fangraphs said his war was X and extrapolated over a season that made his WAR Y which is good, so stats don't lie.
that's what you hung your hat on despite the fact we all watched how downright miserable he was batting less than 100 (yes, less than 100 - Bartolo Colon territory; actually less than Bartolo to be honest) and striking out almost half of his at-bats.
now with Duda frangraphs say his defense is negative. Not ok, but negative and your answer is "we all see he's good defensively".
Do you see the hypocrisy in yourself? Do you see the lack of credibility you have?
yes sure, my argument is hysterically weak. can't have it both ways.
Dude. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but you are completely going off the rails today and your lack of understanding in SABR and metrics in general is astounding. When I cited Kirk's WAR last year it was because I was trying to show that in a limited time he was an effective player in 2014, if not downright good. In other words, he had a good 2014. In 2015 he sucked and now he's gone. I don't know what there is to discuss here. What point are you trying to make?
As for the discussion today. Looking at the metrics for all of our starters only Granderson is really hurting us as Ive said countless times. As Dan pointed out, 1st base is a negative position typically so even Duda grades out very well this year. And I could give two fucks if you don't find me credible. You clearly don't know your ass from your elbow in regards to any of this.
My lack of understanding, LOL, ok. have a good night.
HH: Duda is negative? You: He isn't we all know he's been great.
All this is irrelevant to the point HH and I were discussing before the children interrupted. the Mets are not the kind of team to win with pitching and defense IMO not to mention the offense is lacking at least one hitter - which was the point.
Fangraphs:
So is that a negative next to his defense or not?
And here comes the ZG play book, get proven wrong and insult the other person and then get owned and eventually play the victim.
I understand exactly what first base is and how the metrics work, but that does not change the fact to headhunters question about Duda being negative. Does it.
It's a simple question, it's binary. yes or no.
he's negative defensively. Period. sky blue kind of thing. not debatable.
Does that impact the Mets that much? No for reasons DMM has mentioned and of all the first basemen qualified is he third? irrelevant, but it simply doesn't change the calculation from a negative to a positive no matter how many insults you hurl.
is that negative?
Quote:
to understand what Im saying. As Ive said, and Dan has said, FIRST BASE IS A NEGATIVE POSITION. Why is it a negative position? Because they assume its not a very athletic position and just about anyone can play there. That's not Duda's fault. Literally every first baseman in baseball is negative except for two! Not sure why thats not getting through your thick skull. Duda has been one of the top three defensive first baseman in baseball. He seriously might win a gold glove. And that's not being hypocritical. That's looking at the fucking metrics.
And here comes the ZG play book, get proven wrong and insult the other person and then get owned and eventually play the victim.
I understand exactly what first base is and how the metrics work, but that does not change the fact to headhunters question about Duda being negative. Does it.
It's a simple question, it's binary. yes or no.
he's negative defensively. Period. sky blue kind of thing. not debatable.
Does that impact the Mets that much? No for reasons DMM has mentioned and of all the first basemen qualified is he third? irrelevant, but it simply doesn't change the calculation from a negative to a positive no matter how many insults you hurl.
How on Gods green earth did you prove me wrong on anything? lol. Please cite one thing. Im the one that pointed out that Duda's grade was just barely negative(because I myself said TDA, Lagares, Flores, Murphy, Duda, and Cuddyer were having at least average defensive seasons if not good) and Dan and others pointed out that doesn't even matter because First base is a negative position. If anything me and HH were having a discussion and proving YOU wrong on your comment that only Lagares was having a good season defensively. You are clearly dead wrong on all of this and have been back peddling ever since.
Quote:
Adrian Gonzalez(who has won multiple gold gloves) is grading out at -2.9. lol.
is that negative?
Lol. I guess you just can't grasp it. You are taking the word literal. As if negative means bad. When it comes to first base it doesn't necessarily. Duda is having an excellent defensive season.
negative is negative. Duda is below average as determined by the people doing the calculations.
DEF is position adjusted.
You don't get that almost all first baseman in all of baseball will always have a negative grade, I don't know what to tell you.
I think they need a bat. My point was to do that you need a little bit stronger defense and a little bit better offense.
It doesn't mean I feel their defense is awful as a team, it's not, or great as a team, it's not.
But I don't think it's good enough for them to win a WS on pitching and defense.
Even if you want to stick to what your saying he's just below average then. I said just about everyone has been about average or better from the beginning.
There is zero case you can make that even with his slightly negative rating he has been BAD. Zero.
Quote:
Isn't a single position we are weak at defensively right now except RF and that's only because of Granderson's arm. Murphy and Cuddyer are completely exceeding expectations.
Granderson and Cuddyer are in the 15 worst defensive outfielders in the NL (bottom 3rd of all defensive OFers). Flores has a negative grade, Duda is negative. all according to Fangraphs.
Who is positive? Lagares like I said, and Murphy, barely. Didn't check, but pretty sure neither catcher is a defensive stalwart, 3b is incomplete.
there is rose colored glasses which I can appreciate and then there's delusion.
This is the post I took offense to and where this all started. There is a ton of wrong in there and I was simply pointing it out.
Lol. Ok. Im sorry man. You're right.
If that's who it is he may be their coach of the year because it's astounding to me how good their advanced numbers are compared to the rest of the league. Lagares is the only true + defender in the lineup right now and yet across the board they are at worst average.
Also without one of our best gloves(Wright). Our third base defense has been abysmal (Cambell).