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NFT: Mets Minors 5/28/2015

DanMetroMan : 5/28/2015 9:36 am
AAA-
Rivera 0-3, BB
Tovar 0-3, BB
Pill 4 innings 12 hits 7 runs 1 walk 2 k's

AA
Cecchini 0-3, 2 BB
King 0-5, 2 K
Boyd 0-2, 2 BB
Gee 6.1 innings 5 hits 3 runs 2 earned 2 walks 4 k's
Koch 1.2 innings 3 hits 0 runs 0 walks 1 k
Sewald 1 perfect


A+
McNeil 1-4,SB,K (should be promoted)
TDA 0-3
Conforto 1-4
Smith 2-3, 2b
Rosario 0-3
Stuart 1-3, K
L. Taylor 6 inninga 5 hits 4 runs 4 walks 2 k's
Regnault 2 innings 1 hit 0 runs 0 walks 3 k's
Coles 1 inning 1 hit 0 runs 3 k's


A
Meisner 7 innings 4 hits 2 runs 2 walks 5 k's (intriguing arm, project)
Guillorme 1-5
Garcia 1-4, 2 k
Becerra 1-4, 2b, K

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RE: pj  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 3:49 pm : link
In comment 12304848 Headhunter said:
Quote:
you might want to check that negative grade from Fangraphs on Flores. As of yesterday he was + 3.0 and since he didnt play today, id bet he still has a +3.0 rating defensively


My apologies, Flores leads the team defensively, higher than Lagares. He's negative offensively.

Next season  
Headhunter : 5/28/2015 3:49 pm : link
around here the Big League team should be more fun to follow than the System. It's been a long time since that was the case
Conforto to AA?  
DanMetroMan : 5/28/2015 3:50 pm : link
Lynn Worthy @PSBLynn
B-Mets manager Pedro Lopez said team expected to add two position players, but hadn't gotten word on who the two were going to be yet. #Mets


McNeil should be the other
RE: RE: There  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12304835 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12304822 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Isn't a single position we are weak at defensively right now except RF and that's only because of Granderson's arm. Murphy and Cuddyer are completely exceeding expectations.



Granderson and Cuddyer are in the 15 worst defensive outfielders in the NL (bottom 3rd of all defensive OFers). Flores has a negative grade, Duda is negative. all according to Fangraphs.

Who is positive? Lagares like I said, and Murphy, barely. Didn't check, but pretty sure neither catcher is a defensive stalwart, 3b is incomplete.

there is rose colored glasses which I can appreciate and then there's delusion.


First of all, Flores is well in the positive. Second of all, you can't just rank all players that qualify and site players in the bottom half or third as a negative. Out of 18 players, 17 might be good defensively for example. 0 is what constitutes average defense at the position. Flores, Lagares, Duda, TDA, and Murphy are all in the positive. Cuddyer is a cunt hair below which is outstanding for him. Like I said, really only Granderson is hurting us and if he was in LF he'd likely grade positive as well.
Excuse me  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 3:53 pm : link
Duda is in the negative too but barely. He's been pretty close to avenge defensively.
Maz  
DanMetroMan : 5/28/2015 3:55 pm : link
to A+ on Monday
Duda is negative?  
Headhunter : 5/28/2015 3:58 pm : link
Weren't we all singing his praises how hard he has worked to become a good defensive 1st baseman like 2 days ago? Nobody at that time thought Duda was below average
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/28/2015 4:04 pm : link
both agree and disagree on some of these defensive points. I don't think the Mets are a very good defensive team but Duda isn't really in the negative at all. He's 2nd in DRS at 1b (a stat I personally really value) and he's 1st in total defense. Yes he's "in the negative" because 1b in general is a negative value defensive position.
RE: Duda is negative?  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:04 pm : link
In comment 12304887 Headhunter said:
Quote:
Weren't we all singing his praises how hard he has worked to become a good defensive 1st baseman like 2 days ago? Nobody at that time thought Duda was below average


He isn't. We all know he's been great. They likely punish him because of his range but even he is grading close to average which is great considering his size. I have zero complaints with Duda's defense.
RE: I  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:07 pm : link
In comment 12304903 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
both agree and disagree on some of these defensive points. I don't think the Mets are a very good defensive team but Duda isn't really in the negative at all. He's 2nd in DRS at 1b (a stat I personally really value) and he's 1st in total defense. Yes he's "in the negative" because 1b in general is a negative value defensive position.


Yes. Thanks for pointing that out as well. And I agree we aren't a "very good" defensive team either but we aren't a "very bad" one either.

Small sample but TDA was getting rave reviews for improving his defense early this season and the numbers back that up. Wright and TDA returning would likely bolster our defense as well.
Range on 1st basemen?  
Headhunter : 5/28/2015 4:07 pm : link
last one I remember is Keith Hernandez and I've seen a ton since and before
RE: Range on 1st basemen?  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:12 pm : link
In comment 12304911 Headhunter said:
Quote:
last one I remember is Keith Hernandez and I've seen a ton since and before


Exactly, that's why, like Dan said, first baseman rarely grade in the positive. Dominic Smith might some day.
Sounds  
DanMetroMan : 5/28/2015 4:13 pm : link
like Conforto to AA is really happening. Nothing official yet.
McNeil definitely needs to be in AA  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:17 pm : link
I'd prefer Conforto stayed in A a little longer but we'll see how he does.
RE: McNeil definitely needs to be in AA  
spike : 5/28/2015 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12304938 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
I'd prefer Conforto stayed in A a little longer but we'll see how he does.


Conforto is getting fast tracked. He is coming in late 2016!
Late?  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:22 pm : link
At this rate he'll finish in AAA this year and be a real possibility out of spring training.
RE: Late?  
spike : 5/28/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12304953 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
At this rate he'll finish in AAA this year and be a real possibility out of spring training.


amd trade off Granderson next spring!
Just found this, looks like Seth Lugo  
CMicks3110 : 5/28/2015 4:26 pm : link
had a similar issue that Wright is having

Quote:
“I didn’t really feel much pain in my back besides a few back spasms here and there,” Lugo said. “All the pain was from my hip all the way down to my toes. My whole right leg was just really painful, just like someone was stabbing me all over.”

He underwent lumbar spinal fusion surgery that May to address the pressure on a spinal nerve.


It took Lugo a while to get back since he needed surgery, but he seems to be doing fine now with it past him. He is 7 years younger than wright, but i still don't consider 32 that old.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/102344/farm-report-seth-lugo-off-to-quick-start-with-b-mets - ( New Window )
Really hope Nimmo  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:29 pm : link
Comes back healthy and finishes strong. It would be great to see them both finish in AAA this year. Hell, add Cechinni too!
RE: Just found this, looks like Seth Lugo  
DanMetroMan : 5/28/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12304964 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
had a similar issue that Wright is having



Quote:


“I didn’t really feel much pain in my back besides a few back spasms here and there,” Lugo said. “All the pain was from my hip all the way down to my toes. My whole right leg was just really painful, just like someone was stabbing me all over.”

He underwent lumbar spinal fusion surgery that May to address the pressure on a spinal nerve.



It took Lugo a while to get back since he needed surgery, but he seems to be doing fine now with it past him. He is 7 years younger than wright, but i still don't consider 32 that old. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/102344/farm-report-seth-lugo-off-to-quick-start-with-b-mets - ( New Window )


Better hope not. Lugo lost a full year of time to this surgery. If this is Wright's situation you'd be looking at All-star break 2016.
It doesn't appear Wright  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 4:59 pm : link
Is even close to surgery but well see!
So sometimes we like  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 5:19 pm : link
advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"

ok. got it.
Ricco  
Headhunter : 5/28/2015 5:22 pm : link
says the plan is to have Mejia available to pitch on July 7th. He is working out in the Dominican Acadamy with the plant to bring him to a Minor League team(s) sometime in June. The pen will be Familia, Parnell, Black, Blevins, Alex Torres, Mejia, Carlos Torres. I don't know if Gilmartin sticks
RE: Ricco  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 5:26 pm : link
In comment 12305066 Headhunter said:
Quote:
says the plan is to have Mejia available to pitch on July 7th. He is working out in the Dominican Acadamy with the plant to bring him to a Minor League team(s) sometime in June. The pen will be Familia, Parnell, Black, Blevins, Alex Torres, Mejia, Carlos Torres. I don't know if Gilmartin sticks


someone goes, with the 6-man rotation Gilmartin would make 14 pitchers. that's absurd and if it's not a 6-man rotation then Gee is in the pen.

RE: Ricco  
marbles : 5/28/2015 5:29 pm : link
In comment 12305066 Headhunter said:
Quote:
says the plan is to have Mejia available to pitch on July 7th. He is working out in the Dominican Acadamy with the plant to bring him to a Minor League team(s) sometime in June. The pen will be Familia, Parnell, Black, Blevins, Alex Torres, Mejia, Carlos Torres. I don't know if Gilmartin sticks


If the six man rotation sticks, the team may only go with six in the pen as well.
Black has an option so he could go down  
Eric on Li : 5/28/2015 5:33 pm : link
and if Parnell and Mejia both come back strong, C. Torres getting squeezed out in a numbers game isn't a calamity. His best role is still as a long man, and there are certainly a bunch of options who have emerged to provide depth in that potential capacity (specifically Goeddel).
RE: So sometimes we like  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 5:34 pm : link
In comment 12305061 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"

ok. got it.


Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.
I'm looking at the metrics  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 5:36 pm : link
For everyone and I maintain the only player hurting us right now who's a starter is Granderson and even he has positive range numbers.
I know we can't use him in the playoffs  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 5:39 pm : link
But Mejia should make an excellent setup man in a month and in the second half. Can't wait.
RE: RE: So sometimes we like  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 6:21 pm : link
In comment 12305074 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 12305061 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"

ok. got it.



Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.


How so? I sadistically read through a multi-day argument between you and someone else saying with you saying that Kirk N was a "very good" player because fangraphs said his war was X and extrapolated over a season that made his WAR Y which is good, so stats don't lie.

that's what you hung your hat on despite the fact we all watched how downright miserable he was batting less than 100 (yes, less than 100 - Bartolo Colon territory; actually less than Bartolo to be honest) and striking out almost half of his at-bats.

now with Duda frangraphs say his defense is negative. Not ok, but negative and your answer is "we all see he's good defensively".

Do you see the hypocrisy in yourself? Do you see the lack of credibility you have?

yes sure, my argument is hysterically weak. can't have it both ways.
Gavin Cecchini  
Headhunter : 5/28/2015 6:25 pm : link
3-4 today
RE: Gavin Cecchini  
Eric on Li : 5/28/2015 6:34 pm : link
In comment 12305119 Headhunter said:
Quote:
3-4 today


It's been so interesting watching this regime's prospects develop. I'm sure all of us have paid the daily farm reports a lot more attention over the last few years since there wasn't much else positive going on, I know I have, and for me personally it's been fascinating to see everything play out. None of this regimes picks were regarded as super toolsy guys, but all of them have seemed to consistently show positive signs, improve, and appropriately developed as they've aged.
"Develop"  
Deej : 5/28/2015 6:43 pm : link
is such a key word. I ride Sandy pretty hard, mostly because I think he has been dishonest re the finances and he's getting credit he doesnt deserve for some stuff.

But the key difference between the 2014-15 Mets and any Mets team I've been watching over the last 20 years is my belief that the talent going into the system is actually going to develop. Year after year we had Milleges, Escobars etcs of the world who just never panned out for skills/injury reasons. The Mets system right now is just doing a better job than I can ever remember in the key period BETWEEN acquisition and MLB debut.
actually our top picks remind me of  
Headhunter : 5/28/2015 6:47 pm : link
the Cardinals. Not flashy toolset guys, but high baseball IQ's that grind and
will be solid not great players that will have productive careers
Checchini  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 6:49 pm : link
is such a stark contrast (so far) to his brother.

Garin blasted his way through to A+ even AA to some extent, but has kind of stalled and hasn't ascended the Red Sox prospect chart like they expected.

Gavin, drafted three round ahead almost immediately was labeled "bustini" by certain BBI mets fans and has his neede turning in the opposite direction.

People don't realize sometimes when you draft an 18 year old (like Nimmo or Cecchini or Dom Smith) there is so much projection.

it's why baseball players bust so often.

those three all can still bust, but to me 19/20 years old was too soon to give up on Cecchini (or Smith) like a lot of fans do.

for me I think back to myself at that age and laugh. I was struggling to get people to buy beer for me and these guys have to worry about message board posters calling then "bustini" or if they're developing power like expected for a corner infielder. LOL.
RE: RE: RE: So sometimes we like  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 6:53 pm : link
In comment 12305117 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12305074 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 12305061 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"

ok. got it.



Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.



How so? I sadistically read through a multi-day argument between you and someone else saying with you saying that Kirk N was a "very good" player because fangraphs said his war was X and extrapolated over a season that made his WAR Y which is good, so stats don't lie.

that's what you hung your hat on despite the fact we all watched how downright miserable he was batting less than 100 (yes, less than 100 - Bartolo Colon territory; actually less than Bartolo to be honest) and striking out almost half of his at-bats.

now with Duda frangraphs say his defense is negative. Not ok, but negative and your answer is "we all see he's good defensively".

Do you see the hypocrisy in yourself? Do you see the lack of credibility you have?

yes sure, my argument is hysterically weak. can't have it both ways.


Dude. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but you are completely going off the rails today and your lack of understanding in SABR and metrics in general is astounding. When I cited Kirk's WAR last year it was because I was trying to show that in a limited time he was an effective player in 2014, if not downright good. In other words, he had a good 2014. In 2015 he sucked and now he's gone. I don't know what there is to discuss here. What point are you trying to make?

As for the discussion today. Looking at the metrics for all of our starters only Granderson is really hurting us as Ive said countless times. As Dan pointed out, 1st base is a negative position typically so even Duda grades out very well this year. And I could give two fucks if you don't find me credible. You clearly don't know your ass from your elbow in regards to any of this.
RE: actually our top picks remind me of  
Eric on Li : 5/28/2015 6:54 pm : link
In comment 12305136 Headhunter said:
Quote:
the Cardinals. Not flashy toolset guys, but high baseball IQ's that grind and
will be solid not great players that will have productive careers


Yeah I'd agree. I don't follow how the Cardinals draft so I'm not sure that's a concerted effort they've made (Giants/Red Sox too for that matter) but those are the types of guys that seemed to always win with over the past decade, in addition to great pitching. Though each of those teams also supplemented their rosters with key acquisitions like Pence, Holliday, Manny, etc.
There are literally two players in all of baseball  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 7:02 pm : link
grading out better than Duda defensively. Buster Posey and Logan Forsythe. Lucas Duda might actually be in the running for a freaking gold glove!
RE: RE: RE: RE: So sometimes we like  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 7:06 pm : link
In comment 12305140 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 12305117 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 12305074 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 12305061 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


advanced metrics sometimes we don't, when they fit our arguments and support our opinion of the player, fangraphs gets quoted. but when they don't, the answer is 'we all know he's a good defensive player"

ok. got it.



Hysterically weak point if you are referring to Duda.



How so? I sadistically read through a multi-day argument between you and someone else saying with you saying that Kirk N was a "very good" player because fangraphs said his war was X and extrapolated over a season that made his WAR Y which is good, so stats don't lie.

that's what you hung your hat on despite the fact we all watched how downright miserable he was batting less than 100 (yes, less than 100 - Bartolo Colon territory; actually less than Bartolo to be honest) and striking out almost half of his at-bats.

now with Duda frangraphs say his defense is negative. Not ok, but negative and your answer is "we all see he's good defensively".

Do you see the hypocrisy in yourself? Do you see the lack of credibility you have?

yes sure, my argument is hysterically weak. can't have it both ways.



Dude. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but you are completely going off the rails today and your lack of understanding in SABR and metrics in general is astounding. When I cited Kirk's WAR last year it was because I was trying to show that in a limited time he was an effective player in 2014, if not downright good. In other words, he had a good 2014. In 2015 he sucked and now he's gone. I don't know what there is to discuss here. What point are you trying to make?

As for the discussion today. Looking at the metrics for all of our starters only Granderson is really hurting us as Ive said countless times. As Dan pointed out, 1st base is a negative position typically so even Duda grades out very well this year. And I could give two fucks if you don't find me credible. You clearly don't know your ass from your elbow in regards to any of this.


My lack of understanding, LOL, ok. have a good night.

HH: Duda is negative? You: He isn't we all know he's been great.

All this is irrelevant to the point HH and I were discussing before the children interrupted. the Mets are not the kind of team to win with pitching and defense IMO not to mention the offense is lacking at least one hitter - which was the point.

Fangraphs:

So is that a negative next to his defense or not?
You are clearly too stupid  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 7:10 pm : link
to understand what Im saying. As Ive said, and Dan has said, FIRST BASE IS A NEGATIVE POSITION. Why is it a negative position? Because they assume its not a very athletic position and just about anyone can play there. That's not Duda's fault. Literally every first baseman in baseball is negative except for two! Not sure why thats not getting through your thick skull. Duda has been one of the top three defensive first baseman in baseball. He seriously might win a gold glove. And that's not being hypocritical. That's looking at the fucking metrics.
RE: You are clearly too stupid  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 7:14 pm : link
In comment 12305156 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
to understand what Im saying. As Ive said, and Dan has said, FIRST BASE IS A NEGATIVE POSITION. Why is it a negative position? Because they assume its not a very athletic position and just about anyone can play there. That's not Duda's fault. Literally every first baseman in baseball is negative except for two! Not sure why thats not getting through your thick skull. Duda has been one of the top three defensive first baseman in baseball. He seriously might win a gold glove. And that's not being hypocritical. That's looking at the fucking metrics.


And here comes the ZG play book, get proven wrong and insult the other person and then get owned and eventually play the victim.

I understand exactly what first base is and how the metrics work, but that does not change the fact to headhunters question about Duda being negative. Does it.

It's a simple question, it's binary. yes or no.

he's negative defensively. Period. sky blue kind of thing. not debatable.

Does that impact the Mets that much? No for reasons DMM has mentioned and of all the first basemen qualified is he third? irrelevant, but it simply doesn't change the calculation from a negative to a positive no matter how many insults you hurl.
By your own chart  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 7:15 pm : link
Adrian Gonzalez(who has won multiple gold gloves) is grading out at -2.9. lol.
RE: By your own chart  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 7:19 pm : link
In comment 12305160 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Adrian Gonzalez(who has won multiple gold gloves) is grading out at -2.9. lol.


is that negative?
RE: RE: You are clearly too stupid  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 7:20 pm : link
In comment 12305158 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12305156 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


to understand what Im saying. As Ive said, and Dan has said, FIRST BASE IS A NEGATIVE POSITION. Why is it a negative position? Because they assume its not a very athletic position and just about anyone can play there. That's not Duda's fault. Literally every first baseman in baseball is negative except for two! Not sure why thats not getting through your thick skull. Duda has been one of the top three defensive first baseman in baseball. He seriously might win a gold glove. And that's not being hypocritical. That's looking at the fucking metrics.



And here comes the ZG play book, get proven wrong and insult the other person and then get owned and eventually play the victim.

I understand exactly what first base is and how the metrics work, but that does not change the fact to headhunters question about Duda being negative. Does it.

It's a simple question, it's binary. yes or no.

he's negative defensively. Period. sky blue kind of thing. not debatable.

Does that impact the Mets that much? No for reasons DMM has mentioned and of all the first basemen qualified is he third? irrelevant, but it simply doesn't change the calculation from a negative to a positive no matter how many insults you hurl.


How on Gods green earth did you prove me wrong on anything? lol. Please cite one thing. Im the one that pointed out that Duda's grade was just barely negative(because I myself said TDA, Lagares, Flores, Murphy, Duda, and Cuddyer were having at least average defensive seasons if not good) and Dan and others pointed out that doesn't even matter because First base is a negative position. If anything me and HH were having a discussion and proving YOU wrong on your comment that only Lagares was having a good season defensively. You are clearly dead wrong on all of this and have been back peddling ever since.
RE: RE: By your own chart  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 7:21 pm : link
In comment 12305164 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12305160 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Adrian Gonzalez(who has won multiple gold gloves) is grading out at -2.9. lol.



is that negative?


Lol. I guess you just can't grasp it. You are taking the word literal. As if negative means bad. When it comes to first base it doesn't necessarily. Duda is having an excellent defensive season.
I grasp it fine, you are introducing non-relevant factors to my point  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 7:55 pm : link
you are saying because the other first baseman are bad too, Duda is less bad. Because DMM said so.

negative is negative. Duda is below average as determined by the people doing the calculations.

Nope the position  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 7:59 pm : link
is an offensive position. Almost all value accrued at first base needs to come from the bat. This is what SABR believes. The fact that Duda is almost at 0 is astonishing actually and there are other factors to look at in determining his defensive value which all prove he's been excellent.
Nope  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 8:03 pm : link
someone doesn't understand advanced stats.

DEF is position adjusted.
So you are telling me Adrian Gonzalez  
ZGiants98 : 5/28/2015 8:03 pm : link
is a poor defensive first baseman because he also has a negative grade? Im just trying to follow you?
I'm not telling  
pjcas18 : 5/28/2015 8:06 pm : link
you, fangraphs is telling you. the same people who told you how great Kirk N was in 2014.

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