NFT: Knicks Chat: Demarre Carroll has desire to play for Fisher

PG - Mudiay/Russell
SG - Carroll
SF - Melo
PF - Monroe
C - ?

pass on Millsap anyway. He's already 31 for next season. Carroll is going to ask for 12 million per? Jeez Louise.

In comment 12304080 DanMetroMan said:

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pass on Millsap anyway. He's already 31 for next season. Carroll is going to ask for 12 million per? Jeez Louise.

With the cap going up agents are going to ask for bigger contracts since they know it will be a bargain in a year or 2...

Is a good fit with melo at the 4 as he is a good rebounding 3 who can guard multiple positions.

Wes Matthews was my wing target pre-Achilles injury, so Carroll would be next in line for me.

And Monroe at the 5 kind of be disastrous in terms of interior defense?

a year for him is preposterous

there is no way that Carroll is worth 12 mill per. I get that is just what the agent asks for and the article says 10 mill is more likely, but still. Carroll seems like a just a bit more then the MLE type player to me. Good defender, ok open shooter, descent rebounder. I think 7-8 would be about right, so I guess add in the usual overpayment and 10 mill is prolly right. Still not sure i want to pay him 10 mill.

him at the 2. I see no reason he cant play there, but we cant sign him as a 3.

paying more than 8 for him. He's not worth 12 million in ANY economic climate.

to play for Fisher begins and ends with the fact the Knicks have a lot of cap room. He couldn't care less who the coach is. He knows the Knicks need to improve and he knows they're probably gonna have to overpay to do it.

Stop the insanity, DeMarre Carroll!

In comment 12304130 Aspano! said:

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And Monroe at the 5 kind of be disastrous in terms of interior defense?

This would be atrocious, and I am a fan of Monroe's.

with Monroe as the center....If Knicks sign Monroe have to find a stretch 4 who can defend...

I have ben endorsing a guy like Amir Johnson as a good fit next to Melo and Monroe

Mudiay
Carroll
Melo
Johnson
Monroe

I think that is a playoff team in the east...

isn't a center, and if the Knicks sign him to play there they're crazy.

In comment 12304259 nygiants16 said:

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with Monroe as the center....If Knicks sign Monroe have to find a stretch 4 who can defend... I have ben endorsing a guy like Amir Johnson as a good fit next to Melo and Monroe Mudiay Carroll Melo Johnson Monroe I think that is a playoff team in the east...

Its too bad the Knicks didn't have a mid 1st.... then a guy like Taj gibson would make a ton of sense.

like him. He was like the 5th most important player on his team. You quickly get yourself into cap hell paying a premium for guys like this. You want to be the teams finding these guys for cheap (e.g. Galloway) instead of overpaying for him in free agency. I'd rather they rent out the cap space for picks instead of overpaying somebody else's role players, assuming they strike out on big name guys.

In comment 12304279 Enzo said:

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like him. He was like the 5th most important player on his team. You quickly get yourself into cap hell paying a premium for guys like this. You want to be the teams finding these guys for cheap (e.g. Galloway) instead of overpaying for him in free agency. I'd rather they rent out the cap space for picks instead of overpaying somebody else's role players, assuming they strike out on big name guys.

You didnt watch much of Atlanta did you?

In comment 12304267 dep026 said:

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In comment 12304259 nygiants16 said: Quote: with Monroe as the center....If Knicks sign Monroe have to find a stretch 4 who can defend... I have ben endorsing a guy like Amir Johnson as a good fit next to Melo and Monroe Mudiay Carroll Melo Johnson Monroe I think that is a playoff team in the east... Its too bad the Knicks didn't have a mid 1st.... then a guy like Taj gibson would make a ton of sense.

Would you do it for a trade exception? get immediate cap relief

they cant go into next year with 4 bigs. I actually wont be surprised if Noah is traded, therefore Niko would be paired with Gasol.

The problem with the trade exception is that the Bulls rarely trade... haha

In comment 12304291 dep026 said:

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they cant go into next year with 4 bigs. I actually wont be surprised if Noah is traded, therefore Niko would be paired with Gasol. The problem with the trade exception is that the Bulls rarely trade... haha

I have to look at it again but i think when a team acquires an exception it is jus tlike trading the player for nothing...the exception expires and is gone...

In comment 12304283 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12304279 Enzo said: Quote: like him. He was like the 5th most important player on his team. You quickly get yourself into cap hell paying a premium for guys like this. You want to be the teams finding these guys for cheap (e.g. Galloway) instead of overpaying for him in free agency. I'd rather they rent out the cap space for picks instead of overpaying somebody else's role players, assuming they strike out on big name guys. You didnt watch much of Atlanta did you?

if your goals is 41 wins, have at it hoss.

In comment 12304302 Enzo said:

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In comment 12304283 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12304279 Enzo said: Quote: like him. He was like the 5th most important player on his team. You quickly get yourself into cap hell paying a premium for guys like this. You want to be the teams finding these guys for cheap (e.g. Galloway) instead of overpaying for him in free agency. I'd rather they rent out the cap space for picks instead of overpaying somebody else's role players, assuming they strike out on big name guys. You didnt watch much of Atlanta did you? if your goals is 41 wins, have at it hoss.

This rebuild is going to take more than 1 off season...this season's goal should be playoffs and then you add to the team when the cap goes up...this season should not be championship or bust...

Adding a guy like Carroll gets this team closer to the playoffs and i would argue he was the 2nd ro 3rd most important player on that team during the season and playoffs

In comment 12304309 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12304302 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12304283 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12304279 Enzo said: Quote: like him. He was like the 5th most important player on his team. You quickly get yourself into cap hell paying a premium for guys like this. You want to be the teams finding these guys for cheap (e.g. Galloway) instead of overpaying for him in free agency. I'd rather they rent out the cap space for picks instead of overpaying somebody else's role players, assuming they strike out on big name guys. You didnt watch much of Atlanta did you? if your goals is 41 wins, have at it hoss. This rebuild is going to take more than 1 off season...this season's goal should be playoffs and then you add to the team when the cap goes up...this season should not be championship or bust... Adding a guy like Carroll gets this team closer to the playoffs and i would argue he was the 2nd ro 3rd most important player on that team during the season and playoffs

you don't rebuild with 29-year-old role players unless they're coming cheap...and considering Carroll's career earnings are south of $6 million, there's no way he's not chasing every last dime. As for him being the 2nd most important player, I pick their 4 other starters over him if I'm starting a team, and I don't think twice. And so would any GM.

Carroll had a career year this year...

and was a big reason why that team was the number 1 seed...

shot 40% from 3 and played defense against the other teams best wing player...averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds...

I will take that from my SG any day of the week...

Enzo vs. nyg16 threads are fun to read.

In comment 12304353 nygiants16 said:

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Carroll had a career year this year... and was a big reason why that team was the number 1 seed... shot 40% from 3 and played defense against the other teams best wing player...averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds... I will take that from my SG any day of the week...

you just defined "role player". We don't need role players, we need building block/foundation type players before we worry about our 5th/6th best player. Lottery teams who overpay role players in free agency tend to stay in the lottery. If this guy was young I could see bringing him in as there might be room for improvement. But this is as good as it's going to get for this guy. He makes a ton of sense for a contender. We're not a contender, nor will we be before this guy is in his 30s.

+1. Show me a team that got good by paying 10+ per to role players.

Doing a rebuild by paying "full price" for role players is like doing an MLB rebuild by paying for relievers first. That's the fucking allure of role players -- in proximity to greatness you see all the good stuff they do. But put the same guys together as the core of a team without 2-3 much, much better players and they're a bunch of losers who cant do all sorts of things.

Im not saying you need to rebuild like the Miami Heat and go 3 near-max contracts. But paying 10-12 mill for a journeyman like Carroll is just madness to me.

In comment 12304394 Enzo said:

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In comment 12304353 nygiants16 said: Quote: Carroll had a career year this year... and was a big reason why that team was the number 1 seed... shot 40% from 3 and played defense against the other teams best wing player...averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds... I will take that from my SG any day of the week... you just defined "role player". We don't need role players, we need building block/foundation type players before we worry about our 5th/6th best player. Lottery teams who overpay role players in free agency tend to stay in the lottery. If this guy was young I could see bringing him in as there might be room for improvement. But this is as good as it's going to get for this guy. He makes a ton of sense for a contender. We're not a contender, nor will we be before this guy is in his 30s.

One thing your forgetting, a 10 million dollar contract is going to be the mid level next year when teh cap jumps...

So if you think about it, if you give him a 10 million dollar deal this year, it is the same as giving him the mid level...

Like i said before this team is not built this off season it is this off season and next when the Knicks have another 25 million in cap space...

so say you sign Monroe and Carroll this year and someone else...you then can add a 25 million dollar player to that...

Next year Carroll's contract will equal that of a role player...shit Melo's contract is going to look like a bargain next year..

.

Team Enzo on this one. I like Carroll, but the most I'd give him is 8 million per, and even that is pushing the limit.

In comment 12304407 Deej said:

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+1. Show me a team that got good by paying 10+ per to role players. Doing a rebuild by paying "full price" for role players is like doing an MLB rebuild by paying for relievers first. That's the fucking allure of role players -- in proximity to greatness you see all the good stuff they do. But put the same guys together as the core of a team without 2-3 much, much better players and they're a bunch of losers who cant do all sorts of things. Im not saying you need to rebuild like the Miami Heat and go 3 near-max contracts. But paying 10-12 mill for a journeyman like Carroll is just madness to me.

Your forgetting about the cap jump...this off season is going to be a lot different then any other because of the cap jump that is going to take place..

Next year Carroll's contract is going to be a bargain...

The MLE next year is going to be 8-10 million

a minimum contract for a vet is going to be 3-5 million...

Money is going to be thrown around this year because next year these contracts are going to be bargains...I think people are forgetting this..

In comment 12304414 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12304394 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12304353 nygiants16 said: Quote: Carroll had a career year this year... and was a big reason why that team was the number 1 seed... shot 40% from 3 and played defense against the other teams best wing player...averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds... I will take that from my SG any day of the week... you just defined "role player". We don't need role players, we need building block/foundation type players before we worry about our 5th/6th best player. Lottery teams who overpay role players in free agency tend to stay in the lottery. If this guy was young I could see bringing him in as there might be room for improvement. But this is as good as it's going to get for this guy. He makes a ton of sense for a contender. We're not a contender, nor will we be before this guy is in his 30s. One thing your forgetting, a 10 million dollar contract is going to be the mid level next year when teh cap jumps... So if you think about it, if you give him a 10 million dollar deal this year, it is the same as giving him the mid level... Like i said before this team is not built this off season it is this off season and next when the Knicks have another 25 million in cap space... so say you sign Monroe and Carroll this year and someone else...you then can add a 25 million dollar player to that... Next year Carroll's contract will equal that of a role player...shit Melo's contract is going to look like a bargain next year..

Wait a second... the MLE is going to be equivalent to 10 million next year? Says who? Even if the cap jumps I highly doubt the MLE is going to go THAT high.

In comment 12304424 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12304414 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12304394 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12304353 nygiants16 said: Quote: Carroll had a career year this year... and was a big reason why that team was the number 1 seed... shot 40% from 3 and played defense against the other teams best wing player...averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds... I will take that from my SG any day of the week... you just defined "role player". We don't need role players, we need building block/foundation type players before we worry about our 5th/6th best player. Lottery teams who overpay role players in free agency tend to stay in the lottery. If this guy was young I could see bringing him in as there might be room for improvement. But this is as good as it's going to get for this guy. He makes a ton of sense for a contender. We're not a contender, nor will we be before this guy is in his 30s. One thing your forgetting, a 10 million dollar contract is going to be the mid level next year when teh cap jumps... So if you think about it, if you give him a 10 million dollar deal this year, it is the same as giving him the mid level... Like i said before this team is not built this off season it is this off season and next when the Knicks have another 25 million in cap space... so say you sign Monroe and Carroll this year and someone else...you then can add a 25 million dollar player to that... Next year Carroll's contract will equal that of a role player...shit Melo's contract is going to look like a bargain next year.. Wait a second... the MLE is going to be equivalent to 10 million next year? Says who? Even if the cap jumps I highly doubt the MLE is going to go THAT high.

it will probably be close to 8-10 million

Think about the cap right now is 67 million

it is close 6 million now for the MLE..add 25 million to the cap is like adding 2-3 million for the MLE....

Kevin Durant's max is going to be starting at 30 million...

Lebron's around 35 million

Mid Level will be around 7 million....

So i am over exaggerating a little bit on the amount...

if he was young. But I really dont want to spend much more than min. money one guys who, at best, will be your 5-8th best player. That's something you do once your core is in place.

In comment 12304446 nygiants16 said:

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Mid Level will be around 7 million.... So i am over exaggerating a little bit on the amount...

Yeah... that sounds more like it.

No way a MLE is gonna be worth close to what a mini-max is worth now.

In comment 12304480 Deej said:

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if he was young. But I really dont want to spend much more than min. money one guys who, at best, will be your 5-8th best player. That's something you do once your core is in place.

So who are you expecting this year???

is it Aldridge or Gasol or bust for you??

What do you think guys like Danny Green, Wesley matthews, Aaron Affalo, Tobias Harris..what do you think these guys are getting??

Shit Draymond Green is going to be maxed out and he is a role player on a very good Warriors team...

a guy like Milsap will probably get around 12-14 million per year and he is 31...

a guy liek RObin Lopez will probably get close to 10 million

Kostas Koufos is going to get close to 10 million and he was a back up center last year...

I dont know what some people are expecting during free agency...

We go for Monroe and Carrol, where is the money to sign a starting center? No starting center goes for the MLE anymore. Carrol will be 29 by the time next season starts, and I would think Atlanta would be willing to go to a bidding war with anyone as they have no other use for their cap room.

I'd rather save the space and leave the option open to rent out the space for a pick. And that can happen during the summer or during the season.

In comment 12304516 Enzo said:

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I'd rather save the space and leave the option open to rent out the space for a pick. And that can happen during the summer or during the season.

This team has no draft pick next year they better make the playoffs...

at this point if they plan on fielding any sort of competitive team. If they want to do what Philly's doing and hoard draft picks and cap space indefinitely, I'd be fine with it. I've suffered this long, I can keep going. But that's not happening.

Knicks have 27 million in cap space and with the cap going up next year i would be shocked if Phil sits on the money..

What starting center will be available during the coming FA period?

Marc Gasol? He's not going anywhere.

Who else?

In comment 12304516 Enzo said:

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I'd rather save the space and leave the option open to rent out the space for a pick. And that can happen during the summer or during the season.

There are teams that are already built to rent out space, like the Jazz, Nuggets, Celtics, and Sixers. Its not like if we leave open cap space we are guaranteed to receive a late 1st rounder. With the cap going up, cap space seems much less of an issue.

In comment 12304527 Aspano! said:

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What starting center will be available during the coming FA period? Marc Gasol? He's not going anywhere. Who else?

Koufos and Ajinca are two guys that can become starters. Mozgov was backing up Koufos in Denver and I think he could be just as valuable. And he is 25.

salary...

In comment 12304519 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12304516 Enzo said: Quote: I'd rather save the space and leave the option open to rent out the space for a pick. And that can happen during the summer or during the season. This team has no draft pick next year they better make the playoffs...

short-sighted thinking like that is why this team has struggled for most of the last 13 years.

In comment 12304491 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 12304480 Deej said: Quote: if he was young. But I really dont want to spend much more than min. money one guys who, at best, will be your 5-8th best player. That's something you do once your core is in place. So who are you expecting this year??? is it Aldridge or Gasol or bust for you?? What do you think guys like Danny Green, Wesley matthews, Aaron Affalo, Tobias Harris..what do you think these guys are getting?? Shit Draymond Green is going to be maxed out and he is a role player on a very good Warriors team... a guy like Milsap will probably get around 12-14 million per year and he is 31... a guy liek RObin Lopez will probably get close to 10 million Kostas Koufos is going to get close to 10 million and he was a back up center last year... I dont know what some people are expecting during free agency...

The Greens are not role players to me. They can be in your top 4 best guys and you could still win a title. The other guys are generally more desirable to be than Carroll (who I think is a real journeyman). How do you compare a 28 year old Carroll and a 22 year old Harris?

More importantly, Im not against dropping $10 on some of these guys. Im against doing it when we dont have a decent core in place. Unless it is a real bargain. A player isnt worth X in a vacuum. He's worth X to one team, and 1.2 X to another team.

In comment 12304545 nygiants16 said:

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salary...

Could be more. But when there aren't any other rim protectors becoming available you gotta pay a premium to get it.

In comment 12304531 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 12304516 Enzo said: Quote: I'd rather save the space and leave the option open to rent out the space for a pick. And that can happen during the summer or during the season. There are teams that are already built to rent out space, like the Jazz, Nuggets, Celtics, and Sixers. Its not like if we leave open cap space we are guaranteed to receive a late 1st rounder. With the cap going up, cap space seems much less of an issue.

I'm not sure how teams are "built" to rent out space. You either have cap space or you don't. And the rising cap won't impact this strategy until next summer. Until then, there are still likely to be teams looking to clear room for free agent signings or to get under the luxury tax. And even if the cap space remains unused, if you avoid getting locked into a multi-year year this summer, you have that much more money next summer.