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Nicks V.S Dez

nicks14 : 5/28/2015 2:23 pm
A lot of people may think i'm crazy but i don't get the hype around Dez Bryant. There were a lot of games last year where this guy was singled covered and he still was a non factor as the number 1 WR. I think Becham is a better talent but i can also make a legit claim that if Nicks never sustained those injuries he would be better than Dez. Forget all the hype look at how unstoppable Nicks was pre injury i don't think Dez will ever put a ream on his back and produce the way Nicks did in 2011.
fanatic II will be on shortly to set you straight.  
Klaatu : 5/28/2015 2:25 pm : link
While you're waiting, go make some coffee.
Dez's last 3 years stacks up well with just about anyone  
David in LA : 5/28/2015 2:26 pm : link
This is not a guy teams just allow to see single coverage. Come on.
Dez's problem is his noggin  
JonC : 5/28/2015 2:29 pm : link
He's a dope, and dopes often perform inconsistently. When his head's on straight and he's motivated, he is a very good football player. You can look at recent games versus NYG where he's taken over.

Given the above, you'd be correct that he hasn't taken over like Nicks in at times in 2011. Dez is still very young, it was beginning to click for him last season.
RE: Dez's last 3 years stacks up well with just about anyone  
nicks14 : 5/28/2015 2:31 pm : link
In comment 12304596 David in LA said:
Quote:
This is not a guy teams just allow to see single coverage. Come on.

Last years game against the Redskins on MNF this dude was getting shut out by Breeland i'm not making this up it really happened. People make fun Bradley Fletcher but during that game on thanksgiving he was locking Dez up. These things really happened he's good but i think he's over hyped.
Yikes.  
Mike in Long Beach : 5/28/2015 2:31 pm : link
.
Hmmm...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/28/2015 2:32 pm : link
Quote:
i don't think Dez will ever put a ream on his back


I smell an endorsement deal with Office Depot here!
"Stupid  
Ron Johnson : 5/28/2015 2:32 pm : link
players make you lose" -- Bill Parcells
.  
arcarsenal : 5/28/2015 2:35 pm : link
Who is Becham?

Also, I don't think you have any idea whatsoever how good Dez Bryant actually is.
lol  
Danny Kanell : 5/28/2015 2:36 pm : link
.
RE: .  
nicks14 : 5/28/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12304648 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Who is Becham?

Also, I don't think you have any idea whatsoever how good Dez Bryant actually is.

Obviously it was a typo. An i know exactly how good Dez is he's not better than Beckham, Antonio Brown or Demaryius Thomas.
I'm going to bet..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/28/2015 2:44 pm : link
you really don't know how good Dez is.

.  
arcarsenal : 5/28/2015 2:47 pm : link
Dez hasn't had a Victor Cruz in the slot or even a Mario Manningham opposite him. Terrence Williams had a solid year in 2014-15 I guess. Miles Austin was almost always playing on 1.5 hamstrings. Cole Beasley? Kevin Ogletree?

Nicks didn't have to "put the team on his back" because other guys were also making plays. Loved the guy but this post is silly. Dez is a better player than Nicks ever was.
RE: .  
nicks14 : 5/28/2015 2:51 pm : link
In comment 12304683 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Dez hasn't had a Victor Cruz in the slot or even a Mario Manningham opposite him. Terrence Williams had a solid year in 2014-15 I guess. Miles Austin was almost always playing on 1.5 hamstrings. Cole Beasley? Kevin Ogletree?

Nicks didn't have to "put the team on his back" because other guys were also making plays. Loved the guy but this post is silly. Dez is a better player than Nicks ever was.

Really so against the Packers and Atlanta i guess nicks didn't dominate without any help from Cruz or Manningham.
Dez  
BillT : 5/28/2015 2:56 pm : link
88 catches, 1320 yards 16 TDs.

Worst games Ari: 2, 15 1. Wash: 3, 30 1. NO: 3, 44, 1.

4 100+ yard games: 3 games 2 TDs: 1 game 3 TDS: 8 games 6+ catches.

Doesn't suck.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/28/2015 2:56 pm : link
Were those guys on the field or not?

How often were teams able to double cover Hakeem Nicks that year? They couldn't.

Dez gets coverages rolled towards him constantly because DB's can't cover him 1v1.
RE: .  
Toth029 : 5/28/2015 3:00 pm : link
In comment 12304683 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Dez hasn't had a Victor Cruz in the slot or even a Mario Manningham opposite him. Terrence Williams had a solid year in 2014-15 I guess. Miles Austin was almost always playing on 1.5 hamstrings. Cole Beasley? Kevin Ogletree?

Nicks didn't have to "put the team on his back" because other guys were also making plays. Loved the guy but this post is silly. Dez is a better player than Nicks ever was.
Witten isn't a bum and requires a lot of attention. Even at his age. And Miles Austin was decent for a year, or two.

Dez is still really good, but being real here. He's also been shut down in the playoffs so far. 48 yds per game. No TD's.
Dez's #2 and #3  
BillT : 5/28/2015 3:00 pm : link
Williams: 37, 621, 8
Beasley: 37, 420, 4

For comparison, R. Randle: 71, 938, 3
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 5/28/2015 3:03 pm : link
In comment 12304723 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 12304683 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Dez hasn't had a Victor Cruz in the slot or even a Mario Manningham opposite him. Terrence Williams had a solid year in 2014-15 I guess. Miles Austin was almost always playing on 1.5 hamstrings. Cole Beasley? Kevin Ogletree?

Nicks didn't have to "put the team on his back" because other guys were also making plays. Loved the guy but this post is silly. Dez is a better player than Nicks ever was.

Witten isn't a bum and requires a lot of attention. Even at his age. And Miles Austin was decent for a year, or two.

Dez is still really good, but being real here. He's also been shut down in the playoffs so far. 48 yds per game. No TD's.


He's played in TWO playoff games.. c'mon now.
I loved healthy Nicks  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/28/2015 3:03 pm : link
thought he was the man. I'll always be a fan on him because of '11. But Dez is bigger, stronger, faster, and basically does what Nicks did at a higher level.

Nicks' strengths were his physicality, his hands, and his catch radius. Dez beats him in all 3 areas imo. I always hated the fact that Dez looked like a more talented Nicks, they even wore the same number.

The chink in Dez's armor (besides his brain) is that he doesn't have great deep speed and isn't as much of a threat to beat you over the top as some of the other great WRs in the game today. This limits the way he can impact a defense and is the strongest argument against him being called the #1 WR in football.

But he's up there. Top 5 WR for sure in today's game imo. Calvin/Green/Brown/Jones/Dez... imo those are the top 5 with a handful of others in the mix, including our own ODB who could lap all those guys and convincingly grab that #1 spot if he keeps last year's performance up.
RE: I loved healthy Nicks  
nicks14 : 5/28/2015 3:12 pm : link
In comment 12304732 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
thought he was the man. I'll always be a fan on him because of '11. But Dez is bigger, stronger, faster, and basically does what Nicks did at a higher level.

Nicks' strengths were his physicality, his hands, and his catch radius. Dez beats him in all 3 areas imo. I always hated the fact that Dez looked like a more talented Nicks, they even wore the same number.

The chink in Dez's armor (besides his brain) is that he doesn't have great deep speed and isn't as much of a threat to beat you over the top as some of the other great WRs in the game today. This limits the way he can impact a defense and is the strongest argument against him being called the #1 WR in football.

But he's up there. Top 5 WR for sure in today's game imo. Calvin/Green/Brown/Jones/Dez... imo those are the top 5 with a handful of others in the mix, including our own ODB who could lap all those guys and convincingly grab that #1 spot if he keeps last year's performance up.


I can respect your way of thinking i just look at him the same way i view Carmelo Anthony their both great players but i could name 5 players at their positions who i would take ahead of them.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Toth029 : 5/28/2015 3:13 pm : link
Quote:
In comment 12304731 arcarsenal said:

He's played in TWO playoff games.. c'mon now.

Right. And Nicks only played in four games, and played magnificent in three of them.

AJ Green is another, but I think it's fair to blame Andy Dalton being terrible in the playoffs mostly.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/28/2015 3:22 pm : link
Nicks was great that year but the playoff sample sizes are just too small to put too much stock in. Dez is an outstanding player and he's played at an elite level for longer than Nicks did. I just can't agree that peak vs. peak, Nicks was better. And I was as big a Nicks fan as there is.

I've argued quite a few times that peak Nicks > peak Cruz.
RE: RE: I loved healthy Nicks  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/28/2015 3:26 pm : link
In comment 12304759 nicks14 said:
Quote:
In comment 12304732 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:


Quote:


thought he was the man. I'll always be a fan on him because of '11. But Dez is bigger, stronger, faster, and basically does what Nicks did at a higher level.

Nicks' strengths were his physicality, his hands, and his catch radius. Dez beats him in all 3 areas imo. I always hated the fact that Dez looked like a more talented Nicks, they even wore the same number.

The chink in Dez's armor (besides his brain) is that he doesn't have great deep speed and isn't as much of a threat to beat you over the top as some of the other great WRs in the game today. This limits the way he can impact a defense and is the strongest argument against him being called the #1 WR in football.

But he's up there. Top 5 WR for sure in today's game imo. Calvin/Green/Brown/Jones/Dez... imo those are the top 5 with a handful of others in the mix, including our own ODB who could lap all those guys and convincingly grab that #1 spot if he keeps last year's performance up.



I can respect your way of thinking i just look at him the same way i view Carmelo Anthony their both great players but i could name 5 players at their positions who i would take ahead of them.


Name me the things that you think peak Nicks did better than Dez. I'm talking on the football field.

And then name me the WRs in today's game you'd take over Dez.

I'm with arc on Nicks, I loved the guy. But to me Dez just seems like an upgraded model of what Nicks used to be.
Bryant is better than Nicks.  
Curtis in VA : 5/28/2015 3:31 pm : link
He is one of the best wideouts in the league right now. He is baby TO.

Dont be a homer. =)
Peak vs. peak, I'd take Nicks  
jcn56 : 5/28/2015 3:54 pm : link
Can't back it up with stats, but in the biggest spots Nicks knew how to elevate his game to the next level, where to date Bryant has had issues with his head not being in the game (barking on the sideline, walking off the field early).

Unfortunately, Nicks' peak was far too short, so any comparison is incomplete.
Thinking about changing your handle?  
WideRight : 5/28/2015 4:16 pm : link
.
yes  
djm : 5/28/2015 4:22 pm : link
if Nicks doesn't suck the last 3 years he's probably as good as Dez.

Glad that's settled.
I was critical of Dez his first 2 seasons or so  
djm : 5/28/2015 4:23 pm : link
but the guy is an absolute stud these last 2 years or so. No ifs or buts about it. Head screwed on straight? Its on straight enough from my POV.

You can guess what would have happened to Nicks...  
Dunedin81 : 5/28/2015 4:42 pm : link
without the injuries, but he was injured. And he plays with a style that is conducive to his getting injured, as he is difficult to bring down one on one but not quite fast enough to separate so he ends up with the sort of hard contact or gang-tackling typically reserved for your TEs and RBs.

And Dez might be fucking crazy, but he's been easily a Top 10 receiver these past few years.
RE: Thinking about changing your handle?  
mattlawson : 5/28/2015 5:21 pm : link
In comment 12304930 WideRight said:
Quote:
.



ha
RE: .  
shabu : 5/28/2015 6:21 pm : link
In comment 12304683 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Dez hasn't had a Victor Cruz in the slot or even a Mario Manningham opposite him. Terrence Williams had a solid year in 2014-15 I guess. Miles Austin was almost always playing on 1.5 hamstrings. Cole Beasley? Kevin Ogletree?

Nicks didn't have to "put the team on his back" because other guys were also making plays. Loved the guy but this post is silly. Dez is a better player than Nicks ever was.


Nicks never had a running game behind him like the cowboys did with Murray either...Everyone feared our passing game because our running game was meh, not so with dallas.
Dez also showed up at  
Lithium : 5/28/2015 8:28 pm : link
OTAs; JPP where are you?
RE: fanatic II will be on shortly to set you straight.  
fanatic II : 5/28/2015 8:38 pm : link
In comment 12304595 Klaatu said:
Quote:
While you're waiting, go make some coffee.


Thank you.

Nicks best two seasons(2010-11) versus Bryant's 2011-12(average seasons). In 2010 Bryant only started 2 games. Then you have 2013-14 Bryant's best two seasons.

Nicks: 261 targets, 145 receptions, 55.5 catch%, 2,444 yards, 16.9 YPC, 18 Tds.

Bryant: 241 targets, 155 receptions, 64.3 catch%, 2,310 yards, 14.9 YPC, 21 TDs.

Bryant: 295 targets, 181 receptions, 61.4 catch%, 2,553 yards, 29 TDs.

Those are the numbers.
RE: RE: fanatic II will be on shortly to set you straight.  
nicks14 : 5/28/2015 10:14 pm : link
In comment 12305225 fanatic II said:
Quote:
In comment 12304595 Klaatu said:


Quote:


While you're waiting, go make some coffee.



Thank you.

Nicks best two seasons(2010-11) versus Bryant's 2011-12(average seasons). In 2010 Bryant only started 2 games. Then you have 2013-14 Bryant's best two seasons.

Nicks: 261 targets, 145 receptions, 55.5 catch%, 2,444 yards, 16.9 YPC, 18 Tds.

Bryant: 241 targets, 155 receptions, 64.3 catch%, 2,310 yards, 14.9 YPC, 21 TDs.

Bryant: 295 targets, 181 receptions, 61.4 catch%, 2,553 yards, 29 TDs.

Those are the numbers.

And then he went missing in the playoffs let's not forget that.
Dez looks great...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/29/2015 12:27 am : link
but to say he doesn't have a threat across from him is to ignore the impact of the Dallas running game. He surely has received the benefit of teams ganging up to stop the run. As good as the Giants were running the ball in Nicks' prime, the running game was never the threat that it was last year for Dallas.

Just saying...
Agreed Dan..  
JCin332 : 5/29/2015 5:38 am : link
Nicks did have Cruz and Manningham but not Murray, Witten and that OL..
Not close...  
grizz299 : 5/29/2015 7:31 am : link
Now way, no how...Not in any part of the game

Nicks was a very strong receiver....Dez is among the best I've ever seen. Fitz, Calvin, Dez among the contemporaries in an age dominated by great great receivers.

The catch that was overruled was almost the equivalent of Beckhman's grab. Forget his combine numbers the guy climbs ladders to get to balls. Can you forget Prince covering Dez and Time after time Dez just took the ball away.? Then you have his running ability or YAC's. I don't think his brain hurts him, he's involved, passionate, committed.

A dominate athlete and I go back to Rote / Shofner /Homer
We as Giants fans try to get some sense of false comfort  
Headhunter : 5/29/2015 7:42 am : link
because of Bryant's sideline tantrums. This guy is a beast, he is an absolute matchup nightmare who can dominate a game single handily. If you are counting of him imploding and being able to get in his head and throw him off his game, good luck with grasping at that straw
I wish Witten  
mrvax : 5/29/2015 9:06 am : link
would retire and take Bryant with him.
Nicks? Who's he?

I can agree that the uninjured Nicks did take over games more than Bryant has so far. Not surprising considering Witten & and their running game competing for yards. Overall, Bryant is the better player (at their best).

Dez could take over a game at any time. If Romo needed to make him the star player that day, it would most likely happen, IMO.
RE: Peak vs. peak, I'd take Nicks  
djstat : 5/29/2015 9:42 am : link
In comment 12304875 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Can't back it up with stats, but in the biggest spots Nicks knew how to elevate his game to the next level, where to date Bryant has had issues with his head not being in the game (barking on the sideline, walking off the field early).

Unfortunately, Nicks' peak was far too short, so any comparison is incomplete.


I'd argue Nicks never had a peak. Dez is night and day better and more dominant. Nicks had one good season.
I'm not sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/29/2015 9:45 am : link
how people can say Nicks took over games more than Dez unless they simply haven't seen the Cowboys much, or even missed a few of Dez's games against us.

Dez was an absolute monster several times last year and several times the year before.
Uh,  
Doomster : 5/29/2015 1:06 pm : link
Forget all the hype look at how unstoppable Nicks was pre injury i don't think Dez will ever put a ream on his back and produce the way Nicks did in 2011.


It was Eli who put the team on his back, not Nicks.....
Dez  
stretch234 : 5/29/2015 1:24 pm : link
Despite being a Cowboy, watch games and if there is any reason you come away that he is not 1 of the best WR playing I don't know what to tell you.

Nicks had a great run for the Giants, but Dez is in a different category
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