NYP: There’s a new $60M benchmark for Giants, JPP

the other is not, for starters

you're expecting a cornerstone player. That is a player who represents the team both on and off the field at a high quality along with leadership skills. Not sure JPP brings those type of qualities.

That being said if he plays like he did in 2011....

In comment 12311351 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

the other is not, for starters

This is true and I agree with you 100%, but before people jump down Eric's throat on this... he simply quoted the headline of the article.

given they're considerably higher than what was rumored to be offered by NYG during UFA (approx. 5/50-55 and 20 grtd).

the Giants are paying JPP $15M this year alone

The $33m guarantee is a lot but I'd jump at that if JPP proposed it. I think JPP's deal will be over $70m.

they share agents and JPP's a 4-3 DE suggests to me they'll aim higher than with Jordan. JPP will need a big 2015 to secure such figures, imo.

Very unlikely they're willing to pay him that number on a multi-year contract. If they were it would've been done already.

In comment 12311356 Mike in Long Beach said:

Quote:

In comment 12311351 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: the other is not, for starters This is true and I agree with you 100%, but before people jump down Eric's throat on this... he simply quoted the headline of the article.

Nothing to do with Eric..The quote says in someways they're not(comparable)..That's just one of them..Nothing more than that:)

for Jordan, too.

Quote:

At that money Old Dirty Beckham : 3:17 pm : link : reply you're expecting a cornerstone player. That is a player who represents the team both on and off the field at a high quality along with leadership skills. Not sure JPP brings those type of qualities.

think this is his last year with the Giants. We have a lot of players on one year contracts. Is it possible to resign them all, even with the cap going up?

In comment 12311486 AcidTest said:

Quote:

think this is his last year with the Giants. We have a lot of players on one year contracts. Is it possible to resign them all, even with the cap going up?

Dont see it any other way.

Its going to unfold just like Suh.


Lions had every opportunity to relent and give into Suh, they had every bit of confidence that they were going to be able to keep him, but once he hits the open market, and a bad team with capspace to fill up sees a FA, game over.

Cant remember the last time a big tier FA gets franchised and then resigned.

JPP has always been about the $$$s, and guess what, he's worth the $$$s.

ODB will be even worse if he puts up a couple 16 game seasons.

Jordan was due $7M in salary this year and would've been a first-time franchise tag in 2016.
JPP is due $15M this year and it will cost the Giants $18M to tag him a second time next year.
So JPP has more leverage in negotiations than Jordan had.

In comment 12311486 AcidTest said:

Quote:

We have a lot of players on one year contracts. Is it possible to resign them all, even with the cap going up?

I think it's very possible. The first year of the contract is the easiest on the cap, anyway, so the key will be in how the contracts are structured. In subsequent years, the players who produce will be restructured and those that don't will be released.

As far as JPP goes, my guess is that he's a goner after this year, but not because the Giants couldn't fit him under the cap. It will be because he priced himself outside what they believe he was worth.

Then I'll hope against hope he stays motivated to earn it long term.

when comparing JPP and Jordan:

1. Jordan has never missed a game
2. Jordan has more sacks in the last 3 years, though JPP had more last year

Problem is JPP wants to be paid like a 15 sack/year player.

He is worth it - sign him. You do not let players like him leave. He is 25 - a 5 year contract gets him to 30. The guy hustles all over. He is a top level NFL DE - there are few that are better

This absolute nonsense that people have here him being shitty unless he gets 15 sacks is a joke. Charles Haley is a HOF player with 1 season over 12 sacks. Do people realize how rare 15 sacks is

In comment 12311563 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 12311486 AcidTest said: Quote: We have a lot of players on one year contracts. Is it possible to resign them all, even with the cap going up? I think it's very possible. The first year of the contract is the easiest on the cap, anyway, so the key will be in how the contracts are structured. In subsequent years, the players who produce will be restructured and those that don't will be released. As far as JPP goes, my guess is that he's a goner after this year, but not because the Giants couldn't fit him under the cap. It will be because he priced himself outside what they believe he was worth.

Price himself out of what?

JPP is insanely productive and there's no reason to believe that he is not worth somewhere around Suh money.

Can untap the potential of Damontre Moore. An extra $ 15 million to spend in FA next year might let us fill several holes depending on the market. I agree with the previous comments that JPP just doesn't seem to be that cornerstone player.

"great player, not worth cornerstone money" category

He gets injured a lot and doesn't play nearly as well when he's not 100%.

Giants mgmt. will regret not re-signing him longterm (if they don't work out a deal). he will have a huge year for Spags who is all about D-Line.

letting JPP walk, none whatsoever. I may be in the minority but am secure in my opinion. The guy is a huge risk injury and motivation wise. Very happy to have him play on the tag this year to earn the contract he already think she deserves.

at the close there. iPhone autocorrect.

and the cap goes up, it actually makes it HARDER for you to sign them, not easier. other teams also have additional cap space. if they have fewer players becoming free agents, they can concentrate their increase cap space on signing the player of yours that they covet most. this is true even if you're under the cap going into the year with the cap increase.

We've not seen that player since 2011, let's not get carried away ...

and earn the big contract he seeks, it will be interesting to see if he pulls it off.

For that money, maybe $1 million per year more. I'd be willing to guarantee a fair amount the first few years but add some big non-guaranteed years on the back end to keep him motivated.
Then again, this is probably how most premium contracts are already structured so it probably just comes down to the dollar amounts.
Hopefully, $12-13 million per year gets it done. He won't be an easy player to replace unless by some miracle OO approaches his productivity.

to replace him with, you sign him

but the team's cautious stance suggests it's not so cut and dried.

still has a lot to prove before he can get top tier money, consistency, and I hate to use that word because people on here don't like it, but consistency is what JPP still has to show before he rates top end money, IMHO.

The defense has been poor every year he's been on it. It can be poor without paying him cornerstone money.

In comment 12312311 Go Terps said:

Quote:

The defense has been poor every year he's been on it. It can be poor without paying him cornerstone money.

I agree, though because of him, the D was very good down the stretch in 2011 imv..

That said, I believe with the untapped talents of Odi and Moore we could be fine there..Selvie adds depth as well..

JPP of 2011 was All Pro and unstoppable, but fans cling to that and tightly.

While he quite good in spots in 2014, we haven't seen the elite version in four seasons. An eternity in a highly charged contact sport. Injuries are part of it, but not all of it. Again, the team's cautious stance on a new deal for him suggests it, imv.

as much as I am just allowing 2011 to be part of JPP's resume. Many here aren't even allowing 2011 to be brought up as if it never happened or can't be duplicated. And even if it isn't duplicated, 2014 was good enough in my book.

Whatever, it's apparent that BBI has its view of JPP and for the most part I see the same labels thrown around time and time again. I think the labels are unfair and stem from rumor and innuendo but I guess that's all we have at this point. I see a guy playing well more often than not and a guy that hasn't missed much time at all but that doesn't stop the masses from saying JPP isn't motivated and only cares about money.

The papers say the Giants are leery of handing out a long term deal...no shit...it's a long term deal they haven't even given Eli a long term deal yet--does that mean they think Eli is a risk? Hardly. It's just business. The papers can conjure up images of a lazy unmotivated player but I see a damn good player.

We'll see what happens

the best way to fix a defense is to keep the good players and replace the bad players. JPP is one of the keepers here. Blaming JPP for the D is just ridiculous.

Strahan played on some shaky defenses too.

but probably not with the same guaranteed dollars, I'd wager. I could see 5/60/20 as a reasonable compromise. But, it wasn't good enough to hand him "Suh dollars" and simply say "sign him".

.

in comparing the varying levels of talent JPP has shown. He was once all world (JPP that is. JonC, well, he's still all world). He was on a downward trend and then had a rebound year last year. In my (admittedly not great talent evaluator) opinion, he was good last year, but not top notch. So that leaves you wondering, what do the professionals think? The professionals at Giants, Inc said "sign an ok deal, or SHOW ME you're worth elite dollars". When those who should know best of all are willing to shell out huge dollars on a one year deal, but not commit to shelling out huge dollars long term, it's a big red flag that they don't think he's a good bet for long term huge dollar commitment.

There is a huge potential downside for the Giants: IF JPP performs, it's going to cost more money next year to retain him, AND they'd have given him 15 mil guaranteed already. Look at it this way: do you think he's going to settle for 15 mil guaranteed next year? Of course not. that means this years 15 mil guaranteed gets added to next years guaranteed, which means (if the giants re-sign him) his total guarantee is going to be 30-50 mil or more. But, the Giants are aware of this, and don't seem willing to take the risk this year to save money next year.

Or they could be playing chicken.

In comment 12312492 djm said:

Quote:

the best way to fix a defense is to keep the good players and replace the bad players. JPP is one of the keepers here. Blaming JPP for the D is just ridiculous. Strahan played on some shaky defenses too.

I'm not blaming him for anything. I'm saying he isn't worth being paid like he's a cornerstone of the team, because except for one season four years ago he hasn't been.

In comment 12312613 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 12312492 djm said: Quote: the best way to fix a defense is to keep the good players and replace the bad players. JPP is one of the keepers here. Blaming JPP for the D is just ridiculous. Strahan played on some shaky defenses too. I'm not blaming him for anything. I'm saying he isn't worth being paid like he's a cornerstone of the team, because except for one season four years ago he hasn't been.

Agree.

is to not hamstring yourself overpaying for talent, coupled with a recognition of what you can and cannot replace. Losing JPP would be a blow, but it's questionable whether he's worth paying going market rate (or what he thinks is going market rate). It would suck to lose him. It would suck to overvalue dollarwise his playing value and keep him at all costs.

In comment 12312621 fkap said:

Quote:

is to not hamstring yourself overpaying for talent, coupled with a recognition of what you can and cannot replace. Losing JPP would be a blow, but it's questionable whether he's worth paying going market rate (or what he thinks is going market rate). It would suck to lose him. It would suck to overvalue dollarwise his playing value and keep him at all costs.

Agree with you too. The one way to really get in trouble is to overpay for talent. The cap will kill you. You have to be cold blooded like Bill Belichick.

wants to pay JPP Suh type money.

I won't even kill the Giants for letting JPP walk after this season. What bothers me is this talk that JPP is lazy and unmotivated or that he's not a very very good player. And he's most definitely worth the money what's his name received in New Orleans. He's every bit that level of player.

In comment 12312645 djm said:

Quote:

wants to pay JPP Suh type money. I won't even kill the Giants for letting JPP walk after this season. What bothers me is this talk that JPP is lazy and unmotivated or that he's not a very very good player. And he's most definitely worth the money what's his name received in New Orleans. He's every bit that level of player.

But that doesn't answer a couple very important questions:

- What does JPP think he's worth?
- Will he be worth the money he gets EACH YEAR of his contract?

There is no logical reason to expect him to return to the 2011 level, so what type of player can we reasonably expect him to be in 2015-2019? What he was in 2014? Something better or worse? How does that expectation align with what he thinks he deserves to be paid?

It just seems to me that things don't align for JPP to make sense for another contract here.

lazy and unmotivated are unkind, but, there is some evidence he isn't exactly a superstar in the motivation department. Still, that's a long way from lazy and unmotivated.

very, very, good player? that one is open to debate. At his best, he is a v,v,g player. on his down days, he's slightly above pedestrian. I'd peg his average as a good to very good player. Obviously, opinions may vary, but I don't think it's outrageous to not put him in the very, very, good category overall.