Greg Jones, Jacquian Willaims, Phillip Dillard, Clint Sintim, Bryan Kehl, & Jonathan Goff. We tried to get Zak DeOssie to sign too but he insisted he was a long snapper.
Goff actually was playing pretty good until injured
Greg Jones, Jacquian Willaims, Phillip Dillard, Clint Sintim, Bryan Kehl, & Jonathan Goff. We tried to get Zak DeOssie to sign too but he insisted he was a long snapper.
I still find it hard to believe that he can't find a team yet, unless there is more to the concussion then is being stated. All the LB's we signed have done less on the field than him yet we just showed no interest in him at all.
I understand how important it is to be smarter than Reese; that the fan's second guess is fundamental to the appeal of the game.
You draft fifth rounders, sixth rounders, seventh rounders would the understanding that the failure rate is going to be very high. He drafted in a time when lB'ER'S were being devalued.
Williams was a seventh rounder that played well enough to bring us a superbowl.
Sintim was a higher pick that was a feast or famine type going in. And I think it's fair to criticize over that one.
Kehl and Wilkinson showed real talent and just couldn't play. It happens.
When the man invests a first or a second and the guy doesn't make it then you have a right to jump Reese's bones. Until then it's more of a need to be right, a fan's need to be smarter than a full timer who has a staff of hundreds and banks of information.
oh that damn Gilbride, if only I'd been calling the plays, we'd have made all those third and longs".
It dogged him at USC and was a recurrent theme again last season with us. He's already been dinged up at OTA's again as well. It's all there for him if he can take it. To fulfill his potential he has to be more durable.
If you're going to criticize Reese, please name all the other numerous GMs who drafted mostly 4th round or later LBers well. Thanks in advance, although I won't hold my breath. Wilkinson, the highest pick, certainly didn't look like he was going to be much, but there were about 10 minutes he was healthy.
If you're going to criticize Reese, please name all the other numerous GMs who drafted mostly 4th round or later LBers well. Thanks in advance, although I won't hold my breath. Wilkinson, the highest pick, certainly didn't look like he was going to be much, but there were about 10 minutes he was healthy.
There are plenty of successful LBers drafted in the 4th round or later. Reese hasn't drafted one solid long term starter there in all his tenure.
Greg Jones, Jacquian Willaims, Phillip Dillard, Clint Sintim, Bryan Kehl, & Jonathan Goff. We tried to get Zak DeOssie to sign too but he insisted he was a long snapper.
Lmao nice summary. Was wilkinson his also? Can't recall
And I'll say it again, the Giants scouts and Reese/Ross are just not very good at scouting linebackers for whatever reason. I'm sure some teams suck at scouting CBs, some at other positions etc. We suck at finding LBs plain and simple
Let's see if he can actually stay healthy all year.
Two, play against the big boys.....most of his playing time was against the weaker part of the schedule....he made some plays, but he missed a lot of plays too.....he has to be more consistent in making plays....is he another JW with just potential? Or will he step up to the next level? We will know this year...
He really hasn't played very much, but has flashed some productive and destructive elements in his downhill game. Need to see how he diagnoses action and moves in space, and how he adapts under Spags' system.
A very promising prospect, but let's see how he performs versus better teams, and over a full season.
His pass rush ability, intelligence to master pass coverage, and overall athleticism made me think he could potentially reach the Pro Bowl. I admit it may be a long shot, but it says a lot when he's the most promising LB Reese has brought in for some time.
And I'll say it again, the Giants scouts and Reese/Ross are just not very good at scouting linebackers for whatever reason. I'm sure some teams suck at scouting CBs, some at other positions etc. We suck at finding LBs plain and simple
For years, the Giants couldn't draft a good receiver for love or money. Then, they hit on Smith, Manningham, Nicks, Randle, and OBJ...all with premium picks because they value the position very highly.
Right or wrong, they simply don't value the LB position highly at all, at least not where the draft is concerned, which is why they rarely use a premium pick to draft one (and the last time they did they got burned, badly).
On the flip side, they have had some success finding LBs in free agency. Kawika Mitchell helped them win a Super Bowl - I've always felt that Reese made a big mistake not re-signing him. Michael Boley was up and down, but still helped them win another championship. And we'll see what happens with Beason and the "cast-offs" this year.
Hitting on a quality LB without spending a premium pick
would be a good win for Reese. If Beason somehow manages to stay healthy and plays to his potential, that would be another. Both are 'if's' at this point and I'm not sure I would site this as a reason to expect the D to improve this season, but there is some potential there.
Even if we accept the notion, and it is hard not to, that the team has devalued the position, we have not done well in drafting the position even under this diminished standard. It may no longer be a premium position, but you are still talking about roughly 27% of your defensive personnel and when you are talking about functions such as stopping the run or covering TEs, devalued as it may be, we are still talking defensive fundamentals here.
would be a good win for Reese. If Beason somehow manages to stay healthy and plays to his potential, that would be another. Both are 'if's' at this point and I'm not sure I would site this as a reason to expect the D to improve this season, but there is some potential there.
Even if we accept the notion, and it is hard not to, that the team has devalued the position, we have not done well in drafting the position even under this diminished standard. It may no longer be a premium position, but you are still talking about roughly 27% of your defensive personnel and when you are talking about functions such as stopping the run or covering TEs, devalued as it may be, we are still talking defensive fundamentals here.
Philosophies can change. We've seen it with the Giants' approach to their offensive line. I thought we might see it with their approach to their LB corps, but once again they opted for "upgrades" in free agency, not the draft.
They do undervalue LB relative to DL and DB, for sure
but, their bigger issue is what appears to be a significant blind spot or inadequacy with regards to their scouting profile.
They do a little better plucking an occasional UFA with demonstrated NFL experience.
It seems to me that their scouting profile has changed a bit, at least where UFAs are concerned. Thomas and Casillas are more along the lines of smaller, speedier LBs, not the 6-3, 250 pound "thumpers" (like Kennard).
They can go a little smaller/faster on the edges if the DL/Beason are doing a good job upfront containing and forcing the ball inside. Collins will have an impact on that front as well, coming up from 15+ yards deep to drill anything that moves.
but someone recently questioned whether Spags might use Kennard similarly to how he used Kiwi during his first run here. I thought it was an interesting idea considering how he was used at USC and it wouldn't surprise me if we see him roaming around and putting his hand in the dirt on 3rd and long. In any case I'm excited about the kid. He's as talented a young LBer the Giants have had in...honestly, I can't even remember.
Of course it all hinges on health (cringe worthy, I know), but a unit consisting of Thomas/Beason/Kennard has the potential to be pretty damn good. You have a coverage guy, your all around stud and defensive QB, and a big bodied run defender who has also already shown an ability to get after the QB.
My enthusiasm is tempered by recent history and health concerns, but dare I say this group is giving me some hope?
There are plenty of successful LBers drafted in the 4th round or later. Reese hasn't drafted one solid long term starter there in all his tenure.
Sure. But the overwhelming majority of day 3 players don't make an impact or become long time starters. So it's reasonable to question if Reese is actually doing worse than most GM's.
RE: And to this day
Klaatu : 10:30 am : link : reply
In comment 12313686 Johnny Boy said:
Quote:
Sintim has unbelievable measurables.
Actually, he didn't (what he had was production), but don't let that stop you from posting more of your usual inanity.
Right?
No, I'm not kidding. Sintim did not have "unbelievable measurables." 4.80 40, 7.43 3-cone...he wasn't even close to the top Combine performers at his position in 2009. But in his last two years at UVA he averaged 78 tackles and 10 sacks per year. Production.
RE: And to this day
Klaatu : 10:30 am : link : reply
In comment 12313686 Johnny Boy said:
Quote:
Sintim has unbelievable measurables.
Actually, he didn't (what he had was production), but don't let that stop you from posting more of your usual inanity.
Right?
No, I'm not kidding. Sintim did not have "unbelievable measurables." 4.80 40, 7.43 3-cone...he wasn't even close to the top Combine performers at his position in 2009. But in his last two years at UVA he averaged 78 tackles and 10 sacks per year. Production.
And don't call me Shirley.
And of course, the minor thing they overlooked: that production did not come as a standup, 4-3 OLB playing in space.
but someone recently questioned whether Spags might use Kennard similarly to how he used Kiwi during his first run here. I thought it was an interesting idea considering how he was used at USC and it wouldn't surprise me if we see him roaming around and putting his hand in the dirt on 3rd and long. In any case I'm excited about the kid. He's as talented a young LBer the Giants have had in...honestly, I can't even remember.
Of course it all hinges on health (cringe worthy, I know), but a unit consisting of Thomas/Beason/Kennard has the potential to be pretty damn good. You have a coverage guy, your all around stud and defensive QB, and a big bodied run defender who has also already shown an ability to get after the QB.
My enthusiasm is tempered by recent history and health concerns, but dare I say this group is giving me some hope?
It was me. I have been saying it since Spags was named DC. I also said I can see Moore being used in a similar way as well.
Were these names your argument?
You draft fifth rounders, sixth rounders, seventh rounders would the understanding that the failure rate is going to be very high. He drafted in a time when lB'ER'S were being devalued.
Williams was a seventh rounder that played well enough to bring us a superbowl.
Sintim was a higher pick that was a feast or famine type going in. And I think it's fair to criticize over that one.
Kehl and Wilkinson showed real talent and just couldn't play. It happens.
When the man invests a first or a second and the guy doesn't make it then you have a right to jump Reese's bones. Until then it's more of a need to be right, a fan's need to be smarter than a full timer who has a staff of hundreds and banks of information.
oh that damn Gilbride, if only I'd been calling the plays, we'd have made all those third and longs".
There are plenty of successful LBers drafted in the 4th round or later. Reese hasn't drafted one solid long term starter there in all his tenure.
Lmao nice summary. Was wilkinson his also? Can't recall
I would add that offensive lines are much larger and more athletic. Also, the ball gets out very quickly in the passing game.
All that impacts on the line backing unit.
Two, play against the big boys.....most of his playing time was against the weaker part of the schedule....he made some plays, but he missed a lot of plays too.....he has to be more consistent in making plays....is he another JW with just potential? Or will he step up to the next level? We will know this year...
A very promising prospect, but let's see how he performs versus better teams, and over a full season.
BBI likes Kennard.
The kid can't be a miss..
For years, the Giants couldn't draft a good receiver for love or money. Then, they hit on Smith, Manningham, Nicks, Randle, and OBJ...all with premium picks because they value the position very highly.
Right or wrong, they simply don't value the LB position highly at all, at least not where the draft is concerned, which is why they rarely use a premium pick to draft one (and the last time they did they got burned, badly).
On the flip side, they have had some success finding LBs in free agency. Kawika Mitchell helped them win a Super Bowl - I've always felt that Reese made a big mistake not re-signing him. Michael Boley was up and down, but still helped them win another championship. And we'll see what happens with Beason and the "cast-offs" this year.
Even if we accept the notion, and it is hard not to, that the team has devalued the position, we have not done well in drafting the position even under this diminished standard. It may no longer be a premium position, but you are still talking about roughly 27% of your defensive personnel and when you are talking about functions such as stopping the run or covering TEs, devalued as it may be, we are still talking defensive fundamentals here.
Actually, he didn't (what he had was production), but don't let that stop you from posting more of your usual inanity.
Even if we accept the notion, and it is hard not to, that the team has devalued the position, we have not done well in drafting the position even under this diminished standard. It may no longer be a premium position, but you are still talking about roughly 27% of your defensive personnel and when you are talking about functions such as stopping the run or covering TEs, devalued as it may be, we are still talking defensive fundamentals here.
Philosophies can change. We've seen it with the Giants' approach to their offensive line. I thought we might see it with their approach to their LB corps, but once again they opted for "upgrades" in free agency, not the draft.
They do a little better plucking an occasional UFA with demonstrated NFL experience.
There was that one play when Wilkinson successfully covered Randy Moss one-on-one in 2007. That had me thinking he was going to be something special.
Maybe Ben Talley during Reeves tenure? (Whose career also ended in his rookie training camp).
They do a little better plucking an occasional UFA with demonstrated NFL experience.
It seems to me that their scouting profile has changed a bit, at least where UFAs are concerned. Thomas and Casillas are more along the lines of smaller, speedier LBs, not the 6-3, 250 pound "thumpers" (like Kennard).
Of course it all hinges on health (cringe worthy, I know), but a unit consisting of Thomas/Beason/Kennard has the potential to be pretty damn good. You have a coverage guy, your all around stud and defensive QB, and a big bodied run defender who has also already shown an ability to get after the QB.
My enthusiasm is tempered by recent history and health concerns, but dare I say this group is giving me some hope?
Klaatu : 10:30 am : link : reply
In comment 12313686 Johnny Boy said:
Quote:
Sintim has unbelievable measurables.
Actually, he didn't (what he had was production), but don't let that stop you from posting more of your usual inanity.
Right?
Everything else checks out for a bright future under Spags
Klaatu : 10:30 am : link : reply
In comment 12313686 Johnny Boy said:
Quote:
Sintim has unbelievable measurables.
Actually, he didn't (what he had was production), but don't let that stop you from posting more of your usual inanity.
Right?
No, I'm not kidding. Sintim did not have "unbelievable measurables." 4.80 40, 7.43 3-cone...he wasn't even close to the top Combine performers at his position in 2009. But in his last two years at UVA he averaged 78 tackles and 10 sacks per year. Production.
Quote:
RE: And to this day
Klaatu : 10:30 am : link : reply
In comment 12313686 Johnny Boy said:
Quote:
Sintim has unbelievable measurables.
Actually, he didn't (what he had was production), but don't let that stop you from posting more of your usual inanity.
Right?
No, I'm not kidding. Sintim did not have "unbelievable measurables." 4.80 40, 7.43 3-cone...he wasn't even close to the top Combine performers at his position in 2009. But in his last two years at UVA he averaged 78 tackles and 10 sacks per year. Production.
And don't call me Shirley.
And of course, the minor thing they overlooked: that production did not come as a standup, 4-3 OLB playing in space.
I know klaatu. I was criticizing Reese & co, not your take.
Of course it all hinges on health (cringe worthy, I know), but a unit consisting of Thomas/Beason/Kennard has the potential to be pretty damn good. You have a coverage guy, your all around stud and defensive QB, and a big bodied run defender who has also already shown an ability to get after the QB.
My enthusiasm is tempered by recent history and health concerns, but dare I say this group is giving me some hope?
It was me. I have been saying it since Spags was named DC. I also said I can see Moore being used in a similar way as well.