I have no clue why the Giants haven't extended him already. I guess it's Condon being tough? But if Eli has no intention of playing elsewhere, isn't Condon playing a losing hand?
Or more simply - things are proceeding behind closed doors?
I think it is not impossible that the Giants are coming to the conclusion that no one is worth tying up your cap.
Now that doesn't mean I don't love Eli, that I'm not a Giant fan or that I torture puppies or have joined The Nazi party. I think that's MIGHT be applicable to Rogers, Peyton, Brees and Flacco and Ben. None of whom have won a superbowl (I am pretty sure) once they got the 100 million contract.
A few years ago four rookie QB's (I'm taking some leeyway and including the kid from San Fran) made the playoffs. Maybe it sent a message that Wilson has annually confirmed...You are better off with a "good" QB and cap room than a great QB and no cap room.
I wonder too (and that's a "wonder" not a positive statement) if Nassib hasn't really impressed them. The equation might be a young Nassibe and six or so top pros or Eli.
You have to fool to not pause and consider the hertofor dran near impossible feat of those four inexperienced rooks (Wilson, Kaperneck (sp?), RGIII and Luck) going into the playoffs.
I think the same is true( MAYBE!!) with JPP and they might be seeing the equation in terms of JPP vs. 3 or 4 top pros.
To my mind tying up cap in one player makes you a hostage to injury. So the question isnt just is 4 good players better than one great players, but are the four safer.
And the world of Poster's looks at the way Seattle has cunningly built a defense. I think the real message there is don't tie up too much cap in a QB.
Of course, that's speculative, but then why isn't he signed?
Is that Eli's current contract was tying up about the same percentage of the cap when he won his last two SB as it will when he gets a new contract. At least that's how I see the numbers. So, what difference is there.
Its a rough business. When this much of the cap is on the line, its about future production. Even with Eli's relatively good numbers last year, the team sucked, so proportioning salary to value is even more important.
I think they were close until Big Ben resigned that crazy extension.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Is that Eli's current contract was tying up about the same percentage of the cap when he won his last two SB as it will when he gets a new contract. At least that's how I see the numbers. So, what difference is there.
The difference is that Eli will be 35 at the end of the season. Even assuming he's still healthy, he'll be at an age where players can easily start to decline. Some players can play into their late thirties, but it's not a given. There are only so many throws in any arm. The difference between success and failure at the highest level of sports is often decided by the smallest of margins. Even a slight diminution in ability can make a great player ordinary. A lot of what happens of course depends on this season, and what Eli wants. But the Giants didn't extend him this offseason.
My guess is that he still gets extended. He's a two time SB winning MVP QB. I get what Grizz is saying, but this is still a QB driven league, and he's a proven winner who's still healthy. And although I like Nassib, he hasn't proven anything yet in a regular season game. We have a lot of players on one year deals. JPP is more likely to be gone than Eli.
Barring career-ending injury or precipitous drop in play, he's a lock to play at least another 5 years imo..
Reading anything into his contract status is a waste of time imv..It will get done when it's supposed to..He will get his money and be, at the time the contract is done, amongst the biggest in the QB class, imv..That's how QB money seems to work with its stars..
One thing I believe with 100% certainty:There will be NO distraction whatsoever. This is Eli we're talking about..
of himself through diet and working out? Really? These guys don't work as car salesman in the off season and use Training Camp to get into shape. These guys are in shape all year and 35 ain't the 35 when Alex Karras played
Agree with BB56 that Eli will be Eli, all business. I think they will
re-sign him, getting a franchise QB ain't easy. Look at the post Phil Simms nightmare. But another 6-10 debacle could change everything. All bets are off if that happens.
I think they were close until Big Ben resigned that crazy extension.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Franchising is another possibility. Buys the Giants another year.
you have to take into account the injury history. Except for the ankle injury, Eli hasn't had any debilitating injuries. Of course, that can change in a moment in this game, but players are more likely to have their play decline as they age because of an accumulation of injuries that take their toll.
I think they were close until Big Ben resigned that crazy extension.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Franchising is another possibility. Buys the Giants another year.
I think they were close until Big Ben resigned that crazy extension.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Franchising is another possibility. Buys the Giants another year.
This is not the first time I've heard the you can always franchise Eli argument. The problem I have with that argument is that you can only franchise one player. What if they wish to tag JPP again, or feel that they need the franchise tag to make sure they can keep Prince Amukamara?
how he'll age, and play it safer. Of course, it will likely be a bone of contention with Condon.
To that end, I'd prefer they agree on a shorter extension with options tacked on. A 5-year deal with team options on the end, for example. You simply can't be stuck with a $20M paycheck and cap hit if he begins to rapidly age at 35+.
and I also believe they were close until Big Ben inked his deal
Until they need to, i wouldn't resign him as the Giants are holding all the cards.
No way i'm risking resigning him now, seeing him get injured and find the Giants in position to draft the next QB with a ton of cash tied up in a 35 yr old QB.
s/b a 3-year deal with team options on the end, for example
The Giants and Eli will getting a deal done. When and for how much are yet to be determined but anyone who thinks the Giants have a "prove it or else" mindset toward Eli's status couldn't be more clueless.
The Giants front office is dreading the day Eli is no longer the Giants QB and are hoping that day is many years from now.
I don't agree that a new coach or GM, if they brought one in,
Giants (and granted I think they'd take this "problem any day) is that Eli (like JPP) is poised for a monster year. From mgmt's perspective the best time to extend good players is coming off down years due to outside circumstances
That was Eli last year - good player playing within the confines of a new offense with suspect OLine and playmakers.
This year, Eli is fully comfortable in the O with OBJ. The OL and TEs are improved and they added a 3rd down RB in free agency.
He's primed for a big year, at least bigger than anything since 2011, and the overall price goes up the longer they wait
JPP - same thing. Goes from playing in a DL unfriendly scheme to a DL-friendly scheme which will almost certainly increase production and splash plays
RE: I don't agree that a new coach or GM, if they brought one in,
I know no one wants to think or admit that but if there was any point at all of drafting a QB and trading up to do so, maybe this was part of the thinking. I know, it is BBI and this is blasphemy but perhaps they know more than we do about how the kid is practicing and also want to see him with serious time this pre-season.
All that plus seeing Eli with another year under his belt in Ben's offense + seeing if the team is going to put it together under TC. Seems like a LOT of option value in waiting. How much more expensive could a contract with Eli be? I don't see how it could go up short of another SB. Seems like the best path is to wait and get more info...
how this season goes before we decide to re-invest in him by giving him such a large contract.
And letting him play his contract year isn't necessarily going to make it any more expensive, since we're already paying market value. Giants should sign now if Eli wants to give a hometown discount. Obviously his agent thinks more big contracts for other QBs will help his cause.
you have to take into account the injury history. Except for the ankle injury, Eli hasn't had any debilitating injuries. Of course, that can change in a moment in this game, but players are more likely to have their play decline as they age because of an accumulation of injuries that take their toll.
11, those are good points, but I think you have forgotten a shoulder injury, and I suspect the Giants and Eli have buried some injuries he has simply played through. He's been rocked plenty of times, and has his game streak alive cuz he's as tough as they come.
An average to good QB will cost around $17M a season. That is what they cost.
Someone brought up Russell Wilson like oh every 4 years lets just draft another Russell Wilson. It doesn't work like that. When you get a good QB you keep him, plain and simple.
Eli will remain on the team either via an extension or the tag. He isn't going anywhere nor should he.
how this season goes before we decide to re-invest in him by giving him such a large contract.
And letting him play his contract year isn't necessarily going to make it any more expensive, since we're already paying market value. Giants should sign now if Eli wants to give a hometown discount. Obviously his agent thinks more big contracts for other QBs will help his cause.
I don't mind this approach, it's wait-and-see approach. Let's see if he can build off last season. I def. think he will, but I am sure the franchise wants to see this before investing a shit ton of money in Eli.
you have to take into account the injury history. Except for the ankle injury, Eli hasn't had any debilitating injuries. Of course, that can change in a moment in this game, but players are more likely to have their play decline as they age because of an accumulation of injuries that take their toll.
11, those are good points, but I think you have forgotten a shoulder injury, and I suspect the Giants and Eli have buried some injuries he has simply played through. He's been rocked plenty of times, and has his game streak alive cuz he's as tough as they come.
Correct, but his injuries haven't been bad enough to keep him from playing so I think he's in better shape than a guy like Tony Romo, who has had back problems and has missed games because of it.
I think it is not impossible that the Giants are coming to the conclusion that no one is worth tying up your cap.
Now that doesn't mean I don't love Eli, that I'm not a Giant fan or that I torture puppies or have joined The Nazi party. I think that's MIGHT be applicable to Rogers, Peyton, Brees and Flacco and Ben. None of whom have won a superbowl (I am pretty sure) once they got the 100 million contract.
A few years ago four rookie QB's (I'm taking some leeyway and including the kid from San Fran) made the playoffs. Maybe it sent a message that Wilson has annually confirmed...You are better off with a "good" QB and cap room than a great QB and no cap room.
I wonder too (and that's a "wonder" not a positive statement) if Nassib hasn't really impressed them. The equation might be a young Nassibe and six or so top pros or Eli.
You have to fool to not pause and consider the hertofor dran near impossible feat of those four inexperienced rooks (Wilson, Kaperneck (sp?), RGIII and Luck) going into the playoffs.
I think the same is true( MAYBE!!) with JPP and they might be seeing the equation in terms of JPP vs. 3 or 4 top pros.
To my mind tying up cap in one player makes you a hostage to injury. So the question isnt just is 4 good players better than one great players, but are the four safer.
And the world of Poster's looks at the way Seattle has cunningly built a defense. I think the real message there is don't tie up too much cap in a QB.
Of course, that's speculative, but then why isn't he signed?
Its a rough business. When this much of the cap is on the line, its about future production. Even with Eli's relatively good numbers last year, the team sucked, so proportioning salary to value is even more important.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
The difference is that Eli will be 35 at the end of the season. Even assuming he's still healthy, he'll be at an age where players can easily start to decline. Some players can play into their late thirties, but it's not a given. There are only so many throws in any arm. The difference between success and failure at the highest level of sports is often decided by the smallest of margins. Even a slight diminution in ability can make a great player ordinary. A lot of what happens of course depends on this season, and what Eli wants. But the Giants didn't extend him this offseason.
My guess is that he still gets extended. He's a two time SB winning MVP QB. I get what Grizz is saying, but this is still a QB driven league, and he's a proven winner who's still healthy. And although I like Nassib, he hasn't proven anything yet in a regular season game. We have a lot of players on one year deals. JPP is more likely to be gone than Eli.
Reading anything into his contract status is a waste of time imv..It will get done when it's supposed to..He will get his money and be, at the time the contract is done, amongst the biggest in the QB class, imv..That's how QB money seems to work with its stars..
One thing I believe with 100% certainty:There will be NO distraction whatsoever. This is Eli we're talking about..
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Franchising is another possibility. Buys the Giants another year.
Why does anyone think it's an issue? They don't have to re-sign him right now.
His team friendly deal makes his age a non issue
And its only guaranteed for injury, not performance so they can cut him any time
The hair doesn't hurt though
Quote:
I think they were close until Big Ben resigned that crazy extension.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Franchising is another possibility. Buys the Giants another year.
Quote:
I think they were close until Big Ben resigned that crazy extension.
He is guaranteed 65 million over the first three years of a 5 year contract. He will be 38 by the end of it. He will average 21 million per year.
Eli is due 17 million this year. And then they can franchise him next year. I think that option is less expensive than Ben's deal. And the big one, in 2017 he will be 36. Can re-evaluate where he is in his career
Franchising is another possibility. Buys the Giants another year.
This is not the first time I've heard the you can always franchise Eli argument. The problem I have with that argument is that you can only franchise one player. What if they wish to tag JPP again, or feel that they need the franchise tag to make sure they can keep Prince Amukamara?
To that end, I'd prefer they agree on a shorter extension with options tacked on. A 5-year deal with team options on the end, for example. You simply can't be stuck with a $20M paycheck and cap hit if he begins to rapidly age at 35+.
Until they need to, i wouldn't resign him as the Giants are holding all the cards.
No way i'm risking resigning him now, seeing him get injured and find the Giants in position to draft the next QB with a ton of cash tied up in a 35 yr old QB.
Another horrid season for the team(I don't expect one) and Coughlin is gone. Maybe Reese, too if it's bad enough and who knows who else?
A new coach/GM will want to build from the ground up.
If the season goes well Giants can negotiate then. Meanwhile Eli will be well paid and well treated. There won't be any hard feelings.
The Giants front office is dreading the day Eli is no longer the Giants QB and are hoping that day is many years from now.
QB is one of the hardest positions to fill in the sport. Teams that have a QB in place are looked at as favorable jobs.
That was Eli last year - good player playing within the confines of a new offense with suspect OLine and playmakers.
This year, Eli is fully comfortable in the O with OBJ. The OL and TEs are improved and they added a 3rd down RB in free agency.
He's primed for a big year, at least bigger than anything since 2011, and the overall price goes up the longer they wait
JPP - same thing. Goes from playing in a DL unfriendly scheme to a DL-friendly scheme which will almost certainly increase production and splash plays
QB is one of the hardest positions to fill in the sport. Teams that have a QB in place are looked at as favorable jobs.
Wait isn't the norm the opposite of what you just posted?
Quote:
would want to start over at QB.
QB is one of the hardest positions to fill in the sport. Teams that have a QB in place are looked at as favorable jobs.
Wait isn't the norm the opposite of what you just posted?
I just don't see why a coach would want to come here and bank on being able to scout and draft a franchise QB. It's really, really hard to do.
Belichik ran off Bernie Kosar and Jimmy Johnson ran off Dan Marino, so it has happened before, but I don't really understand it.
Personally, I would extend him when it is optimal for the cap. I honestly don't know if that is now or after the season.
All that plus seeing Eli with another year under his belt in Ben's offense + seeing if the team is going to put it together under TC. Seems like a LOT of option value in waiting. How much more expensive could a contract with Eli be? I don't see how it could go up short of another SB. Seems like the best path is to wait and get more info...
And letting him play his contract year isn't necessarily going to make it any more expensive, since we're already paying market value. Giants should sign now if Eli wants to give a hometown discount. Obviously his agent thinks more big contracts for other QBs will help his cause.
Yes I did. Good recall. So?
11, those are good points, but I think you have forgotten a shoulder injury, and I suspect the Giants and Eli have buried some injuries he has simply played through. He's been rocked plenty of times, and has his game streak alive cuz he's as tough as they come.
Someone brought up Russell Wilson like oh every 4 years lets just draft another Russell Wilson. It doesn't work like that. When you get a good QB you keep him, plain and simple.
Eli will remain on the team either via an extension or the tag. He isn't going anywhere nor should he.
Quote:
how this season goes before we decide to re-invest in him by giving him such a large contract.
And letting him play his contract year isn't necessarily going to make it any more expensive, since we're already paying market value. Giants should sign now if Eli wants to give a hometown discount. Obviously his agent thinks more big contracts for other QBs will help his cause.
I don't mind this approach, it's wait-and-see approach. Let's see if he can build off last season. I def. think he will, but I am sure the franchise wants to see this before investing a shit ton of money in Eli.
Quote:
you have to take into account the injury history. Except for the ankle injury, Eli hasn't had any debilitating injuries. Of course, that can change in a moment in this game, but players are more likely to have their play decline as they age because of an accumulation of injuries that take their toll.
11, those are good points, but I think you have forgotten a shoulder injury, and I suspect the Giants and Eli have buried some injuries he has simply played through. He's been rocked plenty of times, and has his game streak alive cuz he's as tough as they come.
Correct, but his injuries haven't been bad enough to keep him from playing so I think he's in better shape than a guy like Tony Romo, who has had back problems and has missed games because of it.