for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Predict Giants opening day O-line ....

Manny in CA : 6/9/2015 1:13 am
Recall, they had Flowers taking snaps at LT (before the Beatty injury) - Flowers Left Tackle

Even before the draft, Tom Coughlin spoke about the possibility of Pugh to LG. He's just not big and wide enough to play tackle in the pros. He's going to be the next Richie Seubert at LG. Pugh at Left Guard

Wes Richburg was regarded the best college center, by many, when he was drafted. He return to his natural position with all the knowledge and appreciation of the guard positions. This will make him a better player. Richburg at Center

John Jerry is "just a guy" at RG. Schwartz, injured last year, was poised to take his job, but I think the Giants will be forced to slide Schwartz to RT. I'm thinking Jerry will hang-on, this year unless Mosely wakes up or "The Pancake Man's" hip injury is fully healed. Jerry at Right Guard, for now.

Big & Mean Schwartz has played both guard and tackle very well in the pros (originally a college tackle). Only other candidate is Marshall Newhouse (a disaster with the Packers & Bengals). Schwartz at Right Tackle.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz, Bamiro.  
BillT : 6/9/2015 8:03 am : link
In comment 12319392 Klaatu said:
Quote:
.....
That's an interesting thought. If Bamiro were to step up and beat out Newhouse it would be huge. However, if you can pick a dark horse this well you need to get to the track.
OL  
stretch234 : 6/9/2015 8:06 am : link
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Scwartz

That is their best 5
RE: RE: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz, Bamiro.  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 8:24 am : link
In comment 12319403 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 12319392 Klaatu said:


Quote:


.....

That's an interesting thought. If Bamiro were to step up and beat out Newhouse it would be huge. However, if you can pick a dark horse this well you need to get to the track.


Is it really that much of a stretch to believe that Bamiro (who's been getting snaps at LT with the second team) might be able to beat out Newhouse? They couldn't wait to get rid of him in Green Bay, and he crashed and burned in Cincinnati. Does anything about him inspire confidence?
We'll get a much better idea  
Simms11 : 6/9/2015 8:37 am : link
once the pads come on and the hitting starts. Flowers going up against JPP in practice should help him as well. Pugh looks light to be a Guard, however his athleticism should help him there. He looks smallish compared to the other linemen. Richburg should shine as he is more a natural center and Scwartz is much better on the right side, whether it be Guard or Tackle. Question for me is not necessarily inside, but the tackles. Can Flowers succeed on Eli's blindside and can Newhouse play better at RT, well enough to have success. If Flowers can't cut it at LT, who's next? Pugh? Newhouse would get Eli killed. This Beatty injury SUCKS! It's so hard to predict anything at this point.
I think ROT is Newhouse's job to lose.  
Watson : 6/9/2015 8:43 am : link
but I don't think it's a stretch in thinking Bamiro could win it. It's only because of a fluky situation that he was a rookie free agent last year. Nothing against Newhouse but I'll be rooting for Bamiro. Other than Schwartz, that would be a very young line with alot of potential.
Simms11  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 8:50 am : link
Pugh weighs about the same as Seubert and Snee did in their playing days...and about the same as some of the best Guards in the league, like Marshal Yanda, Wade Smith, Evan Mathis, and Zane Beadles.
RE: RE: RE: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz, Bamiro.  
BillT : 6/9/2015 8:51 am : link
In comment 12319419 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 12319403 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 12319392 Klaatu said:


Quote:


.....

That's an interesting thought. If Bamiro were to step up and beat out Newhouse it would be huge. However, if you can pick a dark horse this well you need to get to the track.



Is it really that much of a stretch to believe that Bamiro (who's been getting snaps at LT with the second team) might be able to beat out Newhouse? They couldn't wait to get rid of him in Green Bay, and he crashed and burned in Cincinnati. Does anything about him inspire confidence?
You're preaching to the choir Klaatu. I've been beating the drum against having Newhouse a starter since day one. However, Bamiro, as you say, has been practicing at LT and he's somewhat of a long shot to make the roster at all much less be a starter. All I can say is I hope you're right.
Option A)  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 8:55 am : link

This:

''I think
giantgiantfan : 1:51 am : link : reply

Pugh-Newhouse-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers. They either must really not believe in Pugh or are really hoping on Flowers. At least they are giving Flowers reps at LT with 1st and 2nd teams. Preseason will be very interesting. Thank god Vereen is known for his blitz pickup and catching ability, he might save Eli's butt this year.''

(this makes the most sense to me, you have veterans and some ability to pull and so forth, such as having balance on the Left side, and power/power on the Right. that Schwartz also plays right tackle will help flowers as a rook next to him, that newhouse plays left will help pugh)

Option B)

Flowers/Pugh/Richburg\Newhouse\Schwartz

newhouse sucks by all accounts as a tackle

Option C)

Pugh/Jones/Richburg\Schwartz\Flowers

in case Newhouse sucks, as above, all around this time

Pugh/Jones/Richburg\Mosely\Flowers

in case Schwartz is not ready....blech...c'mon people.
Flowers-Pugh-Richberg-Jerry-Schwartz  
Andy in Halifax : 6/9/2015 8:58 am : link
and I won't like it one bit.
Bill, I don't think Bamiro is a long shot to make the roster at all.  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 9:02 am : link
I think the Giants want him to succeed, and are going to give him every opportunity to show that he belongs, at the very least as a swing-tackle if not a starter.

The Giants didn't sign Newhouse to be a starter. He's been pressed into service at RT due to the injury to Beatty. I think the Giants would like nothing more than to have one of their younger O-Linemen show enough to send him back to the bench.
RE: Simms11  
Simms11 : 6/9/2015 9:04 am : link
In comment 12319446 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Pugh weighs about the same as Seubert and Snee did in their playing days...and about the same as some of the best Guards in the league, like Marshal Yanda, Wade Smith, Evan Mathis, and Zane Beadles.


Thanks, that's a little more comforting to see NFL comparisons. Hopefully, he got stronger in the off-season too as he has to push DTs out of the way.
Can we stop with this Pugh-to-LT foolishness?  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 9:12 am : link
The Giants made the decision to move Pugh to LG long before the draft, and long before Beatty got hurt. That was their plan, and I'm glad that they're sticking to it. Pugh was a capable OT, but he has the potential to be an outstanding OG. Let him maximize that potential.
We love health  
Giants2012 : 6/9/2015 9:22 am : link
Bamiro-Mosley-Reynolds-Jerry-Cleary

broadly speaking I think we make a mistake when we assume  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 9:25 am : link
that there is a hierarchy of skills that leads from guard, up to right tackle, up to left tackle.

It may well be somewhat more correct that some players are best (or, 'that player is better at one position than another') at the position we consider most challenging (left tackle) even when they were only ok at others, and on through the positions.

This does not mean that any particular player is great at anything, just that given player X, that person might be a 7 out of 10 at left tackle, a 6 at right tackle and only a 5 at guard.

Player Y might be a 9 at right tackle, a 6 at left and a 4 at guard.

Player Z might fit the prevalent concept, being an 8 at guard and only a 3 at left tackle. If only we had an 8 out of 10 at guard.

Pugh was a first round pick at left tackle, mosely was a left tackle, flowers obviously might be a great tackle either side...I think we have fallen a bit too much in love with the staffs cuteness regarding positional.
One other O-Line note:  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 9:27 am : link
A healthy Schwartz is the Giants' best option at RG, but if he can't go his likely replacement would be John Jerry. Jerry is a decent pass-blocker, but he's an abysmal run-blocker, and Lord knows the Giants need to get their running game going.

Now, everyone has penciled Bobby Hart in as a Guard, but the Giants have still given him reps at RT, which is okay...all part of the evaluation process. I hope he can give Jerry a run for his money on the right side.
idiotsavant  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 9:42 am : link
The NFL is replete with very good OGs who were OTs in college - Logan Mankins, Zane Beadles, Jahri Evans - and it doesn't have anything to do with being cute.
Flowers  
bc4life : 6/9/2015 10:09 am : link
Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Newhouse
we could do this all day- who knows  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 10:39 am : link
, haha. I wonder how Schwartz is doing, health wise. BBI profiles say he plays right tackle.
No, it says he is able to play right tackle.  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 10:46 am : link
There's a big difference. Just because he's able to do it - in a pinch - doesn't mean he should...not when he's made his bones at right guard.

Similarly, just because Weston Richburg was able to play left guard, doesn't mean he should...not when his best position is center.

Dude, you should spend less time trying to reinvent the wheel, and more time following exactly what the Giants are doing with regard to their personnel.
RE: Bill, I don't think Bamiro is a long shot to make the roster at all.  
BillT : 6/9/2015 10:54 am : link
In comment 12319471 Klaatu said:
Quote:
I think the Giants want him to succeed, and are going to give him every opportunity to show that he belongs, at the very least as a swing-tackle if not a starter.

The Giants didn't sign Newhouse to be a starter. He's been pressed into service at RT due to the injury to Beatty. I think the Giants would like nothing more than to have one of their younger O-Linemen show enough to send him back to the bench.
Agree with all of this.
RE: Flowers  
Giants2012 : 6/9/2015 10:56 am : link
In comment 12319624 bc4life said:
Quote:
Pugh - Richburg - Schwartz - Newhouse


That would be great if Flowers could really lock down the LT position as a rookie.

OL  
area junc : 6/9/2015 10:57 am : link
Flowers - pugh - richburg - schwartz - jake long
i'll go with  
Les in TO : 6/9/2015 11:14 am : link
Flowers Mosley Richburg Jerry Pugh

some how I think Schwartz will be sidelined for week 1.
I'll take a stab...  
Torrag : 6/9/2015 11:36 am : link
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Long

In the end Jerry Reese waking nightly screaming from nightmares of Newhouse as his starting Rt wear him down. He signs Long to finally get a good nights sleep and because he knows his job could be on the line if this team isn't playoff bound.
It looks like the big question mark is at right tackle  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 1:01 pm : link
we do have 4 (college level) left tackles on the roster:

Pugh
Flowers
Newhouse
Mosely

1 of whom played 2 years there as a professional- Newhouse.

It remains to be seen if any of Pugh, Mosely and Newhouse have the power to play right side, however.

Most believe, not irrationally, that Flowers could do left fairly well and right VERY well this year.

In fact, Flowers might be our ONLY good right tackle, since people here have said that 'Schwartz is only an in a pinch right tackle', 'newhouse sucks at it', and 'Pugh had a poor outing at it last year.'

On the other hand, we have Pugh, Newhouse and Mosely each of whom MIGHT be ok at left. We don't, as fans, in fact, have any knowledge of these players abilities in actual games at left tackle one way or the other.
idiotsavant  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 1:33 pm : link
With each succeeding post you live up to the first half of your handle.
yawn, urp,  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 1:34 pm : link
lets wait for mid season and lay me ten dollars
Sure  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 1:43 pm : link
Maybe by then Brandon Mosley will be starting at left tackle. In what parallel universe, I have no idea, but apparently you've taken up residence there.
haha, ok, not that part, that was a stretch ;-)  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 1:46 pm : link
. hehe. mosely. I am being a dork because I mocked him that year.

but maybe this:

that Flowers is at right and someone else at left..

not due to flowers being bad at left, he will be fine,...just, due to whomever -was- at right tackle just sucked that very much.
Why do you think the Giants are working Flowers overtime at LT?  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 2:02 pm : link
Just for the hell of it? Just to confuse you? They need to get him up to speed ASAP because he's the best option they have at the position with Will Beatty out-of-action. Not Pugh, not Newhouse, not Mosley - Flowers. "They want him on that wall. They need him on that wall."

RT is up for grabs, in my opinion, but I seriously doubt if Geoff Schwartz is in the mix except for the most dire of circumstances. He failed miserably at RT in KC. He is, however, our best option at RG, and that's where the Giants should leave him. The hope is that he can stay healthy, at least until a suitable replacement not named John Jerry can be brought up to speed.
I just think we are being overly optimistic about our right tackle  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2015 2:12 pm : link
options. and the players we have below flowers may not be great at left...but they might suck even worse at right.

Eli can get killed from the right side as well.
So your solution is to take our best option at LT...  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 2:24 pm : link
And move him over to RT? That's counter-productive, in my opinion. LTs are hard to come by...RTs, not so much.

Assuming Schwartz can stay relatively healthy - and I understand that's a big assumption - then 4/5 of the O-Line is set. Let Newhouse and others battle it out for the RT spot. Let Jerry and others battle it out for the post-Schwartz RG spot.

There's always a chance that a capable OL will shake loose in the coming months, but there's no chance it will be a top-tier LT. Leave Flowers alone. Get him up to speed.
what cubed said  
JonC : 6/9/2015 3:17 pm : link
If Newhouse fails, they'll either kick Schwartz out there or sign a dude like Long to try and hold the fort until Beatty returns.

Fans scream for an upgrade at RT ... I ask them, who exactly is sitting at home on their couch that actually presents an upgrade? There's only so much starting quality players in existence, and few of them are familiar with the system as Newhouse is.

They're trying to create cohesion now, and fewer positional changes down the road at the same time.
Klaatu is correct about Pugh to LG and staying put  
JonC : 6/9/2015 3:23 pm : link
To move Pugh to either tackle spot means their plan sucketh, players faileth, and we don't want that.

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Newhouse/Long/Beatty ... only one position is affected by change, best case.

RE: I just think we are being overly optimistic about our right tackle  
Giants2012 : 6/9/2015 3:45 pm : link
In comment 12320171 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
options. and the players we have below flowers may not be great at left...but they might suck even worse at right.

Eli can get killed from the right side as well.


IMO, the team will be better from Guard to Guard. I'm cautious about the tackle positions.
RE: broadly speaking I think we make a mistake when we assume  
BlueLou : 6/9/2015 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12319517 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
that there is a hierarchy of skills that leads from guard, up to right tackle, up to left tackle.

It may well be somewhat more correct that some players are best (or, 'that player is better at one position than another') at the position we consider most challenging (left tackle) even when they were only ok at others, and on through the positions.

This does not mean that any particular player is great at anything, just that given player X, that person might be a 7 out of 10 at left tackle, a 6 at right tackle and only a 5 at guard.

Player Y might be a 9 at right tackle, a 6 at left and a 4 at guard.

Player Z might fit the prevalent concept, being an 8 at guard and only a 3 at left tackle. If only we had an 8 out of 10 at guard.

Pugh was a first round pick at left tackle, mosely was a left tackle, flowers obviously might be a great tackle either side...I think we have fallen a bit too much in love with the staffs cuteness regarding positional.
The only reason Pugh "was a first round pick at left tackle" is because the Giants were desperate for a quality OL, ANY OL, and Pugh was the last man standing in a weak 1st round class that had lots of OL - both OGs And RTs - taken before him. I don't think the Giants envisioned Pugh as a franchise OLT. As a potential OG, I think they saw him on a similar plane to Cooper and Warmack, the guys (OGs) that went before him. The guy they wanted was OT Fluker, who was gone...

They got their Fluker this year...
RE: RE: broadly speaking I think we make a mistake when we assume  
Giants2012 : 6/9/2015 4:30 pm : link
In comment 12320463 BlueLou said:
Quote:
The only reason Pugh "was a first round pick at left tackle" is because the Giants were desperate for a quality OL, ANY OL, and Pugh was the last man standing in a weak 1st round class that had lots of OL - both OGs And RTs - taken before him. I don't think the Giants envisioned Pugh as a franchise OLT. As a potential OG, I think they saw him on a similar plane to Cooper and Warmack, the guys (OGs) that went before him. The guy they wanted was OT Fluker, who was gone...

They got their Fluker this year...


Good call on every point blue

They needed a lineman and Pugh was the one who was left. Now they got Flunker/Mackeenzie type. Not sure if he's a LT yet confident he can play RT. We will see

I quoted briefly the from ....  
Manny in CA : 6/9/2015 4:49 pm : link
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel a couple of days ago, about Newhouse, here'e a little more ....

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-season-by-the-numbers-2b8e0bo-187406961.html

"Marshall Newhouse allowed 11 sacks, one-half more than his team-high total of 10½ a year ago. It is the most given up by a Green Bay O-lineman since Tony Mandarich yielded 12½ in '90 ......

Newhouse, with 42½, allowed the most pressures. That includes all sacks, knockdowns and hurries. Newhouse's total, one more than a year ago, is the highest since the Journal Sentinel began recording the statistic in 1999"


Tony Mandarich ?!!! That is pretty alarming. I'm guessing the only reason Newhouse is here is because McAdoo may have put in a good word in for him.

I thought about doing this very same thread topic last week,  
wgenesis123 : 6/9/2015 5:42 pm : link
problem was I could not choose the 5 starters. If Long was on the rosteer would he be a canidate for PUP? I still can't choose for myself, going to need to see them play first. The preseason games will be important this year, more so than they normally are.
Those preseason games will also be more critical on defense,  
wgenesis123 : 6/9/2015 5:44 pm : link
its going to be interesting to see what developes on both sides of the ball.
Pugh-Newhouse-Richburg-Schwartz-Flowers.  
mrvax : 6/9/2015 5:52 pm : link
Could change any day due to injuries. As it stands right now, for better or worse, this is it.
RE: idiotsavant  
mrvax : 6/9/2015 5:58 pm : link
In comment 12320084 Klaatu said:
Quote:
With each succeeding post you live up to the first half of your handle.


I choose to agree with the Idiot. Pugh to guard is a terrible waste and I won't believe it until I see it. There is no way that Flowers is ready to play LOT this year. No way. He's have been a top 5 pick if any team other than the Giants believed he'd start out at LOT.

Again, I'll believe when I see it in September.
You're seeing it now, mrvax, and you'll see it in September, too.  
Klaatu : 6/9/2015 6:29 pm : link
Whether or not you choose to believe it is up to you.
RE: You're seeing it now, mrvax, and you'll see it in September, too.  
mrvax : 6/9/2015 7:34 pm : link
In comment 12320626 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Whether or not you choose to believe it is up to you.


I realize what they are doing now and I stand by my "guess" in the face of overwhelming odds. In fact, I cast laughter and a sneer in your general direction!

My picks  
TheShade : 6/9/2015 9:57 pm : link
LT - Erek Flowers
LG - Justin Pugh
C - Weston Richburg
RG - Geoff Schwartz
RT - Anthony Collins

Yeah I threw a curveball here. I bypassed Jake Long because 2 ACL tears in 2 years is not something the Giants can take on, even if Long is healthy. I feel he'll be extremely limited throughout the season and might even be too cautious playing on the field.

Now Collins was the LT for the Bucs last season, and he was bad. But The Giants sign him because he can play both tackle positions and is a better option then Newhouse. Collins was a very good RT for the Bengals when he was there and that's what he'll be playing as for the Giants if they sign him.
My picks  
Earl the goat : 6/9/2015 10:18 pm : link
LT. Bamiro
LG. Pugh
C. Richburgh
RG. Hart
RT. Flowers

Scwartz gets hurt. Newhouse sucks. Beatty never returns
Why the fuck is everyone going with bamiro?  
NYG4246 : 6/10/2015 10:03 am : link
LT - Ereck Flowers
LG - Justin Pugh
C - Weston Richburg
RG - Geoff Schwartz
RT - Bobby Hart

NEwhouse is hopefully just a camp body. we need more depth. Bring in Long if we can, go after Evan Mathis.
Mr.Vax  
idiotsavant : 6/10/2015 12:34 pm : link
one of the beauties of my handle is that one can write things like:

"I choose to agree with the idiot"


It just has a nice ring to it. "lets all agree with the idiot!" boohaa.

but, that line does make the most sense to me.
LT LG C RG RT  
giantsfan227B : 6/10/2015 12:50 pm : link
That's my story and I am sticking to it.
at this point  
Jersey55 : 6/11/2015 10:53 am : link
I don't think we can count on Schwartz for anything since he is never healthy and isn't healthy enough for OTAs right now. I think if Jake Long can pass a physical we should grab him before somebody else does and that would put a lot of these problems to bed....
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner