what holes on defense?

...I see question marks with starters at ever position but CB.

At LB, Beason's health is the major one. But the other LBs have limited experience starting.

At DE, will JPP play well throughout? We can't wait for him to turn it on once the season is already lost, like last year. Also you just can't be sure what you are getting with Moore and Odi (because of youth) or Ayers (health).

At DT, who starts next to Hankins? Ellis, though a huge body, isn't an impact player really.

And Safety is full of question marks. None of the projected starters or major contributors have any significant experience. Josh Gordy is the most experienced guy on the team right now, and he has two starts in the past 3 years.

Some of these guys will pan out I am sure, hopefully the majority do. And some look like legit players ready to take the next step. So I wouldn't say there are holes everywhere, but a few not panning out will hurt, no doubt.

question this defense! You will be ostracized by this board for doing so....sure glad I didn't state it...thought it, but didn't state it...

I see Ellis playing decent at NT in a 3-4 with a top defensive front on the Jets....translating very well into our 4-3. He might not be exciting on his own but moving Hankins to the pentrating DT changes the dynamics to a new level which is Very exciting and it will also have a ripple effect with DEs.

Kennard is the key to the lbers. JT impact is above coverage. JT showed more in his game against us that Williams did in all his years. Beason contribution is gravy.

but need to see actual performance on the field from the additions at DE, DT, and OLB.

We're still a bit thin at CB and S.

Biggest questions remain will this defense play with physicality and dictate to the opponent, or will they get pushed around as they often did the past three seasons.

I know I tend to look at things half filled. Hell the Giants are currently undefeated!....sb seems to tend toward half empty until proven otherwise.

But you.....You are your namesake.....

Sounding as if we compared to some utopia in philly and dallas. Every team has a wait and see issues. Even Seattle.....the current shiny toy....has Michael Bennet their stud DE holding out...i am sure it will be settled but if that blows up....who knows what happens to that defense.

All I can tell you is that the Giants has only won the Super Bowl once as the best team.....in 1986.

They won with a back up QB....imagine that?

They won against a team that did not lose to anyone.....imagine that?

It is called hope

But I like the starting 3 Cbs and think Collins will be the goods and another guy will step up.

I like the depth signings at DE, DT (think Ellis will make a huge impact in the run game), and LB. I'm expecting beason to go down (but hoping for the best) and McClain and Thomas to fill in fine. Which is why that article made no sense to me

I think Spags will be the biggest improvement and I like the Ds chances IF they can stay healthy. But we know how that goes

There is a difference between having bodies signed and having talented, effective starters and backups. Face it every team fields the requisite 6 CB/4S/8DL/6LB etc. It's the quality that matters. In that regard the Giants defensive personnel have a lot of questions to answer.

That doesn't mean they can't be an improved unit. I think they will be. To what degree is uncertain. I myself expect more of a quantum leap in performance by this group for the 2016 season.

If I stated what SB thought, I would be raked over the coals by the usual members of the "Hang the Doomster Club".....

They all do the same thing.....the attack the fact that I have the audacity to state the obvious, but they never take apart what I say, because they can't.....

I am a Giant fan just like anyone else.....I want them to win.....but this is a team that has degenerated because of the front office......To have a quality qb like Eli, and put him behind the OL he has had for years, is unforgivable.....even in 2011, this OL was well on it's downward spiral, and it was only the unreal play of Eli, that made it look better than it was...

This team has played, the last two seasons, without being competitive....more often than not, it can't beat teams with winning records......yes there have been injuries.....bad draft picks.....investing in free agents that don't pan out.....and the same people are in charge that got us in this position.....

As Giant fans we all hope for the best....maybe there are guys that will step up....maybe Spags will create a miracle.....maybe an OL with absolutely no experience together can gel quickly.....maybe Cruz's knee comes back.....this is a watered down league, and because of that, teams on the fringe can improve leaps and bounds, over night.....maybe the Giants will......we will have an idea once the preseason games start.....

The Giants are built like the Redskins have been built for years. Good starters and no depth behind the starters. All these backups have something to prove well beyond their paperweight.

Between asking serious questions about the Giants, and acting like an annoying, defeatist, half-troll douchebag working overtime to run the team down.

A person who calls himself "Doomster" shouldn't be surprised at the amount of vitriol he engenders...unless that's his real objective.

In comment 12325975 Giants2012 said:

Quote:

The Giants are built like the Redskins have been built for years. Good starters and no depth behind the starters. All these backups have something to prove well beyond their paperweight.

Oh really? Can you name many teams who have wonderful depth behind the starters? You and Doomster should run together

Did anyone expect anything better when your defense was 29th in the NFL last year? When is the last time the Giants spent a first round pick on defense? Prince I guess? You can't expect a star studded defense! The good news is there is some talent for Spags to build around with JPP, Prince, Hankins, and DRC. Some new young talent to develope and some veterans like Beason to try and get some quality playing time out of. These guys will need a good running game on offense and 3 and outs on defense to stay off the field and keep people healthy.

This league punishes winners.......considering we won in 2010 despite not being the strongest team made it worse.....but none of us would trade that great win.

They had some glaring issues like an aging OL.....Coughlin is a loyal coach so it is understandable why that happened

Reese's Super Bowl clock was a glaring miscalculation.

I believe those mistakes have been acknowledged and they have been trying repair theses issues.

Too little? Perhaps. Too late? See Cleveland.

with this defense. What impact if any will Moore, Ayers, Selvie, Ellis, Bromley, Kennard, McClain, Beason, McBride, Hosley, Collins, Behre, and Taylor have? Anyone who thinks they know the answers should be working for the Giants, not banging on a keyboard.

That will be a big improvement.

to be altogether reasonable, because I have the same questions. I rarely, rarely find Doomster to be arbitrary or lock-step-defeatist (never mind Klaatu's ad hominem attack on the name).

The questions abound:
- an argument can be made that DT is the most sound position; Hank is a stud for us, I think Ellis will contribute immediately, and maybe Bromley can become serviceable; the other holdovers from 2014 will become depth.
- DE holds the most serious, potential questions, imo: going into his third year we really don't know what we have in Moore, Osi/Kiwi light or something better, or not? And Osi and Kiwi had their own limitations. Can OO see meaningful and productive playing time? Is Ayers ready to return (good situational rusher last year, not so much every down player); and as noted above by sb, what do we get from JPP? At a critical position in Giants' traditional scheme, we don't know whether it's boom, bust, or mediocre. Maybe Spags can foil offensive game planners by committee and change of roles approach.
- LBs, as noted above. Kennard hopefully grows in year 2 and stays on the field; the two FAs?--are they the same, very mixed results of Reese's last two vet LB FA signings?
- S, I hope Taylor becomes a fixture at one of the S positions, but it seems much of BBI has already invested him with starter and difference maker status, for a guy who's not seen the field in his two years since being drafted in Round 5 (?). Pre-season roses. Same with Behre, hasn't seen the field. The rest?
- CB, the two main men and then mostly questions as to caliber and depth. I liked McBride a lot before he got hurt, hopefully he and Jackson (now pegged as a S?) get it done.

our biggest issue is ambiguity surrounding our best, most highly paid players. JPP, Beason + DRC need to be reliable stalwarts and the rest will fall into place. These 3 pace the D - 1 at each level.

In comment 12325957 Doomster said:

Quote:

question this defense! You will be ostracized by this board for doing so....sure glad I didn't state it...thought it, but didn't state it...

C'mon, Doomie, relax. No reasonable person is going to object to the questions posed above; they're legit areas on concern that may or may not prove to be problems. That's pro football.

You're just reacting as if sb made your kind of negative pronouncements (as if, laughably) they were facts that you, and only you have at your disposal. He didn't, making your little diatribe all the more lame.

In comment 12326063 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

to be altogether reasonable, because I have the same questions. I rarely, rarely find Doomster to be arbitrary or lock-step-defeatist (never mind Klaatu's ad hominem attack on the name).

I guess you don't read many of his posts, or don't read them the same way most of the rest of us do.

"I guess you don't read many of his posts, or don't read them the same way most of the rest of us do."

I couldn't have said it any better!

In comment 12326095 Doomster said:

Quote:

"I guess you don't read many of his posts, or don't read them the same way most of the rest of us do." I couldn't have said it any better!

No, you certainly could not have!

My intention was certainly not to stir the pot for a BBI backlash or whipping post. I doubt to a certainty that Doomster or sb (or I, for that matter) is any less a flat out fan of the NYG than "most of the rest of us". All of us are on this board to share mutual interests, opinions, passions for the team; equally so, many of us have different perspectives or approaches in looking at the players and what the FO is doing to improve. I'm sure Doomster and sb (and certainly I) want the very best on the field from the NYG, championships galore, but that's not the same as averring that the current team or recent teams are always "the best", or that we're going to kick ass, whether in the NFC East, Conference or League. It's not being disloyal or any less a fan to assess frankly the roster's weaknesses and questionmarks as we see them: not to see the issues raised in this thread as really big uncertainties in evaluating the Giants' likely performance this season to me is the classic sporting of rose colored lenses. (Even with the Giants twice victorious over the Patriots in the last eight years in the SB, that organization's overall excellence (deflate gate aside) and consistency is what I would like for our team. Being playoffs-less in the last three years sucks big time! I know I should not put this parenthetical in this post because it will serve as a red herring.)

Maybe these are differences in temperament, personality, outlook, call it what you will, but I'm not willing to shed pre-season skepticism (as well as questioning many of the FO's moves/non-moves) solely to qualify for potential admission to BBI's "true fan" club. I know I wouldn't be admitted under any circumstances anyway. LOL

In comment 12325961 George from PA said:

Quote:

I see Ellis playing decent at NT in a 3-4 with a top defensive front on the Jets....translating very well into our 4-3. He might not be exciting on his own but moving Hankins to the pentrating DT changes the dynamics to a new level which is Very exciting and it will also have a ripple effect with DEs. Kennard is the key to the lbers. JT impact is above coverage. JT showed more in his game against us that Williams did in all his years. Beason contribution is gravy.

This, Hankins had 7 sacks last year. Which is a breakout in its own right, but I think he's poised for even more production with sacks and QB pressures...assuming Elis can be a load to block.

when he gave his "new head coach" speech.

The enormous number of starters lost is just f'ing unreal. Year after year. Seems like several Eagle fans got together and sold their reprehensible souls to Satan to curse our team.

Mara should do what he can to look into this. What if anything will it take to keep these guys as healthy as an average NFL team?

Beason's participation has a big impact on wins and losses.

and that was getting rid of Perry Fewell. We have a lot of young players for this defense now plus a new DC who knows how to apply pressure, something Fewell could never do.......

In comment 12325992 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 12325975 Giants2012 said: Quote: The Giants are built like the Redskins have been built for years. Good starters and no depth behind the starters. All these backups have something to prove well beyond their paperweight. Oh really? Can you name many teams who have wonderful depth behind the starters? You and Doomster should run together

Yeah, look at the Giants past two Super Bowl teams. Look at New England, San Fran for years, Seattle, Baltimore was very deep on the LOS, Denver has had depth, Green Bay on offense, Philly had been doing well for a while.

Just accept the reality that he's likely to miss part of, if not most, of the season.

the Giants have been a garbage defensive team since the end of 2008. Awful.

They do not deserve any benefit of the doubt at all. It's on the defense to prove that they're competent because we haven't seen that around here in a long time.