Mets
Curtis Granderson, RF
Juan Lagares, CF
Lucas Duda, 1B
Michael Cuddyer, DH
Travis d'Arnaud, C
Wilmer Flores, SS
John Mayberry Jr., LF
Ruben Tejada, 3B
Dilson Herrera, 2B
Bartolo Colon, RHP
Blue Jays
Jose Reyes, SS
Josh Donaldson, 3B
Jose Bautista, DH
Justin Smoak, 1B
Chris Colabello, LF
Russell Martin, C
Ezequiel Carrera, RF
Kevin Pillar, CF
Ryan Goins, 2B
R.A. Dickey, RHP
Oh wait, I'm so exited I almost forgot.
Over/under for hits tonight?
Why not just wait and sign him in the offseason if you want him. I wouldnt do that one.
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for Upton on the condition that he signs an extension. ;)
Why not just wait and sign him in the offseason if you want him. I wouldnt do that one.
Because we are in first place almost half way through the year and that might make us a legit WS contender. In the land of things that would never happen, that has to be towards the top of the list.
Cechinni. Who knows?
We would have to find a taker on Cuddyer. Doubt we can move Granderson.
Sorry, but I'll pass on Dale, given he's been retired for 22 years...
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but just wait until Dale Murphy comes back!!!!!
Sorry, but I'll pass on Dale, given he's been retired for 22 years...
Nice to see you botched the message like a Mets fielder.
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In comment 12333931 Giants2012 said:
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but just wait until Dale Murphy comes back!!!!!
Sorry, but I'll pass on Dale, given he's been retired for 22 years...
Nice to see you botched the message like a Mets fielder.
Just poking fun at your ridiculous typo. Lighten up, Francis
Just poking fun at your ridiculous typo. Lighten up, Francis
Wasn't a typo dipshit
Your type is just too dumb.
Its hard for these pitchers to keep overcoming this defense. Herrera error. Tejada not fielding what should have been a DP. And I'm not sure why Wilmer didnt catch that out there.
It comes from almost every INF spot.
Funny thing...I've seen him make a lot of really good plays going to his left. Maybe it's a little tougher when the ball is hit back up the middle at 100 mph. Maybe?
Flores missed a ball hit directly to him
Missed a DP good slide, but a SS makes that play.
And comes no where near a ball hit five feet to his left.
Colon should have already been out of the inning. Same with the run that scored in the 2nd inning.
Teams have put up some pretty big innings against Dickey so far this year, so let's not waive the white flag just yet.
Hes made pitches. How about they catch the ball. Its hard to pitch when you can't trust your defense.
Plus defenders - Lagares
Neutral - TdA, Duda, Herrera, Tejada
Below Average - Granderson, Cuddyer, Flores, Murphy (when he returns)
And that's with fairly generous evaluations of Herrera (who is inconsistent) and Duda who is really average at best. The numbers may say otherwise, but this is a very bad defensive team that's somehow masked from a metrics standpoint thanks to an abundance of power pitching.
Flores missed a ball hit directly to him
Missed a DP good slide, but a SS makes that play.
And comes no where near a ball hit five feet to his left.
Dude those were rockets hit up the middle. Nobody gets to those. He flubbed a knuckle ball right at him that wasn't even scored an error. And its totally fine to have Colon give up 16 hits after that with two outs? Fucking ridiculous effort from Colon.
I have too. Don't understand the comment.
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In this inning alone.
Flores missed a ball hit directly to him
Missed a DP good slide, but a SS makes that play.
And comes no where near a ball hit five feet to his left.
Dude those were rockets hit up the middle. Nobody gets to those. He flubbed a knuckle ball right at him that wasn't even scored an error. And its totally fine to have Colon give up 16 hits after that with two outs? Fucking ridiculous effort from Colon.
A line drive hit directly to him.
A routine double play and he didn't avoid the slide.
You'd be mad at a high school kid that made those plays.
Fuckin' Flores...he makes everyone get out on offense too.
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Seriously does this happen to other teams as regularly as it seems to happen to us?
Fuckin' Flores...he makes everyone get out on offense too.
lol. I have such a hard time understanding where you stand on things (except Flores & Collins, i'm clear on both of those issues).
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In comment 12334057 Shecky said:
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In this inning alone.
Flores missed a ball hit directly to him
Missed a DP good slide, but a SS makes that play.
And comes no where near a ball hit five feet to his left.
Dude those were rockets hit up the middle. Nobody gets to those. He flubbed a knuckle ball right at him that wasn't even scored an error. And its totally fine to have Colon give up 16 hits after that with two outs? Fucking ridiculous effort from Colon.
A line drive hit directly to him.
A routine double play and he didn't avoid the slide.
You'd be mad at a high school kid that made those plays.
It was not a routine double play. The runner was on top of him as soon as he caught the ball. Should he have stepped aside and recorded no outs??
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In comment 12334065 Eric on Li said:
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Seriously does this happen to other teams as regularly as it seems to happen to us?
Fuckin' Flores...he makes everyone get out on offense too.
lol. I have such a hard time understanding where you stand on things (except Flores & Collins, i'm clear on both of those issues).
Haha, what can I clear up for you?
This place would be better if you were demoted.
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Frustrating error. But it's a lot more frustrating watching him try to go to his left each night.
Funny thing...I've seen him make a lot of really good plays going to his left. Maybe it's a little tougher when the ball is hit back up the middle at 100 mph. Maybe?
And not to make excuses but this is astro turf so the balls get on you much faster than on grass.
Exactly. And you can make a case for one hard hit or whatever. But how many runs did he give up? A player making a mistake doesn't give a pitcher free reign to get their brains beat in for 6 more batters.
Thanks FATTY!
Colon pitched poorly and Flores made an error, they at least share the blame for the inning.
The damage reasonably should have been less than it was so Colon didn't help matters when his defense behind him faltered.
Colon pitched poorly and Flores made an error, they at least share the blame for the inning.
The damage reasonably should have been less than it was so Colon didn't help matters when his defense behind him faltered.
Of course. And this is why I said If Colon gave up a run or two I think it would be pretty even. But how many hits and runs can a pitcher give up when he only needs to get one more out before the blame shifts back to him?
Colon pitched poorly and Flores made an error, they at least share the blame for the inning.
The damage reasonably should have been less than it was so Colon didn't help matters when his defense behind him faltered.
9 hits and 7 runs for Toronto and it's turned into a Flores and Defense bitchfest again. Not much bitching (if any) about the shitty pitcher giving up rockets all game. That's what the issue is.
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why it's mutually exclusive.
Colon pitched poorly and Flores made an error, they at least share the blame for the inning.
The damage reasonably should have been less than it was so Colon didn't help matters when his defense behind him faltered.
9 hits and 7 runs for Toronto and it's turned into a Flores and Defense bitchfest again. Not much bitching (if any) about the shitty pitcher giving up rockets all game. That's what the issue is.
Yup. Basically. That and RA Dickey baffling our lineup.
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was promoted.
This place would be better if you were demoted.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Quote of the year!!!!!
The line drive hit directly to Flores has to be caught, no if's and's or but's. The DP ball was very difficult, the base runner was on top of him in a hurry, no doubt about it.
The fact that this team has had well documented difficulties completing DP's has been brought up time and again by our own broadcast team, it's a problem. Is it a lack of chemistry, lack of communication or lack of cohesion due to the influx of different faces in the infield or is it a question of youth, skill and instincts? Who the hell knows but a DP in a key spot sure as hell can give a team a lift and help the guy out on the mound.
And yes, of course, The Big Greasy should bear down and overcome weak infield play but there's no question you that can't keep giving the opposition extra outs without getting hurt somewhere along the line.
Bottom line, make the routine plays and the plays you're supposed to make on a consistent basis and it'll go a long way to this teams success.
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why it's mutually exclusive.
Colon pitched poorly and Flores made an error, they at least share the blame for the inning.
The damage reasonably should have been less than it was so Colon didn't help matters when his defense behind him faltered.
9 hits and 7 runs for Toronto and it's turned into a Flores and Defense bitchfest again. Not much bitching (if any) about the shitty pitcher giving up rockets all game. That's what the issue is.
It's 1-0 if Flores can turn a fairly standard double play. Or catch a line drive right at him.
Not sure why they'd be excused, just terrible plays.
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was promoted.
This place would be better if you were demoted.
Need a hug . . . again or just a job?
The line drive hit directly to Flores has to be caught, no if's and's or but's. The DP ball was very difficult, the base runner was on top of him in a hurry, no doubt about it.
The fact that this team has had well documented difficulties completing DP's has been brought up time and again by our own broadcast team, it's a problem. Is it a lack of chemistry, lack of communication or lack of cohesion due to the influx of different faces in the infield or is it a question of youth, skill and instincts? Who the hell knows but a DP in a key spot sure as hell can give a team a lift and help the guy out on the mound.
And yes, of course, The Big Greasy should bear down and overcome weak infield play but there's no question you that can't keep giving the opposition extra outs without getting hurt somewhere along the line.
Bottom line, make the routine plays and the plays you're supposed to make on a consistent basis and it'll go a long way to this teams success.
How about a couple of young, talented players playing in their first full season, one of which is the youngest position player in baseball.
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In comment 12334090 pjcas18 said:
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why it's mutually exclusive.
Colon pitched poorly and Flores made an error, they at least share the blame for the inning.
The damage reasonably should have been less than it was so Colon didn't help matters when his defense behind him faltered.
9 hits and 7 runs for Toronto and it's turned into a Flores and Defense bitchfest again. Not much bitching (if any) about the shitty pitcher giving up rockets all game. That's what the issue is.
It's 1-0 if Flores can turn a fairly standard double play. Or catch a line drive right at him.
Not sure why they'd be excused, just terrible plays.
Conversely, it would be 1-0 if Colon isn't out there throwing batting practice.
Not sure why he would be excused, just terrible pitching.
There's plenty of blame to go around, Flores included. But as usual, the focus is mostly on Flores. Weird.
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are when watching what appears to me like the Mets - Jays game ...
The line drive hit directly to Flores has to be caught, no if's and's or but's. The DP ball was very difficult, the base runner was on top of him in a hurry, no doubt about it.
The fact that this team has had well documented difficulties completing DP's has been brought up time and again by our own broadcast team, it's a problem. Is it a lack of chemistry, lack of communication or lack of cohesion due to the influx of different faces in the infield or is it a question of youth, skill and instincts? Who the hell knows but a DP in a key spot sure as hell can give a team a lift and help the guy out on the mound.
And yes, of course, The Big Greasy should bear down and overcome weak infield play but there's no question you that can't keep giving the opposition extra outs without getting hurt somewhere along the line.
Bottom line, make the routine plays and the plays you're supposed to make on a consistent basis and it'll go a long way to this teams success.
How about a couple of young, talented players playing in their first full season, one of which is the youngest position player in baseball.
I believe I referenced the word "YOUTH" in my post. So tell me, how long are we to excuse poor play especially where it's legitimately unwarranted? Let me know what the book is on that and I'd be happy to comply.
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In comment 12334111 Stufftherun said:
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are when watching what appears to me like the Mets - Jays game ...
The line drive hit directly to Flores has to be caught, no if's and's or but's. The DP ball was very difficult, the base runner was on top of him in a hurry, no doubt about it.
The fact that this team has had well documented difficulties completing DP's has been brought up time and again by our own broadcast team, it's a problem. Is it a lack of chemistry, lack of communication or lack of cohesion due to the influx of different faces in the infield or is it a question of youth, skill and instincts? Who the hell knows but a DP in a key spot sure as hell can give a team a lift and help the guy out on the mound.
And yes, of course, The Big Greasy should bear down and overcome weak infield play but there's no question you that can't keep giving the opposition extra outs without getting hurt somewhere along the line.
Bottom line, make the routine plays and the plays you're supposed to make on a consistent basis and it'll go a long way to this teams success.
How about a couple of young, talented players playing in their first full season, one of which is the youngest position player in baseball.
I believe I referenced the word "YOUTH" in my post. So tell me, how long are we to excuse poor play especially where it's legitimately unwarranted? Let me know what the book is on that and I'd be happy to comply.
Poor play?? Flores has like one error in the last 6 weeks and has positive defensive ratings in just about every category imaginable. Herrera? What has he played in? 17 games? Guess what? he also is rated positive in just about every defensive category. They are both having solid defensive seasons. Herrera made one of the most ridiculous plays Ive ever seen from a 2ndbaseman Sunday. Neither of these kids are allowed to make a mistake?? They are supposed to have amazing chemistry from day one? 17 games!
Very entertaining baseball.
So it's okay that the Jays teed off on him after the two bad plays? Just give up?
Sometimes the defense is bad and the pitcher has to pick them up.
Sometimes the pitcher is bad and the defense has to pick him up.
That's baseball. The pitcher can't fall apart because his defense doesn't make a play or two. But colon has been really bad for a while but he gets a pass, right?
Your act is tired and a bore. Yawn...
You are so miserable. You probably go to Little League games and mock the 8 years olds too.
No free passes to Duda slow to the mound for the cutoff, Herra botch or Tejada Olay.
Murphy's defense and bat will save us.
My post was sensible and fair and if you don't care for it because it bruises your sensitvities and differs from your opinion then try your level best to move on. Not one player at this level should be above reproach, period.
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When he dives and comes up empty, they don't count those as errors whereas a SS with range gets to the ball. He's been diving for almost two games and come up empty. Take off the blinders.
Your act is tired and a bore. Yawn...
You are so miserable. You probably go to Little League games and mock the 8 years olds too.
My act? Stop jerking it to a Flores Blowup doll and find a woman. You're nuts
Pretty standard play. Avoid the slide, make the throw.
Is he related somehow? Seems the only way this makes sense.
LOL.. I saw that too and started laughing.
My post was sensible and fair and if you don't care for it because it bruises your sensitvities and differs from your opinion then try your level best to move on. Not one player at this level should be above reproach, period.
How is that sensitive? lol. They are both incredibly young in their first full season. They have a whopping 17 games of chemistry together. How anybody would expect this to go 1000 percent perfect from day one is beyond me. Obviously you aren't a fan of advanced stats but they are both well above average defensively for their positions.
And this is nothing personal man. Im talking in general to everyone who is so ridiculously hard on these kids the second they make a mistake.
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In comment 12334134 Giants2012 said:
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When he dives and comes up empty, they don't count those as errors whereas a SS with range gets to the ball. He's been diving for almost two games and come up empty. Take off the blinders.
Your act is tired and a bore. Yawn...
You are so miserable. You probably go to Little League games and mock the 8 years olds too.
My act? Stop jerking it to a Flores Blowup doll and find a woman. You're nuts
Lol, yeah I'm nuts. Okay.
Back to pretending you don't exist...just like everyone else. Later.
Remember these quotes?
This team needed a lot more.
Lol, yeah I'm nuts. Okay.
Back to pretending you don't exist...just like everyone else. Later.
Thank you - the fewer trolls with Flores blow up dolls the better
I'll post with the fans and not the cheerleaders
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you need to take a step back from the keyboard or the Mets for a while. You're so incredibly defensive in nature ...it's either due to selective reading, blind emotion or lack of understanding.
My post was sensible and fair and if you don't care for it because it bruises your sensitvities and differs from your opinion then try your level best to move on. Not one player at this level should be above reproach, period.
How is that sensitive? lol. They are both incredibly young in their first full season. They have a whopping 17 games of chemistry together. How anybody would expect this to go 1000 percent perfect from day one is beyond me. Obviously you aren't a fan of advanced stats but they are both well above average defensively for their positions.
And this is nothing personal man. Im talking in general to everyone who is so ridiculously hard on these kids the second they make a mistake.
We're on an island alone, my friend. It's funny how things work out sometimes, lol.
Granderson and Cuddyer kill this team. Really, they do. Other guys are garbage offensively but the other guys are young or relatively decent for the positions they play. It's these corner outfielders thats the main reason our offense is overall terrible this year.
The Nats have been killed with injuries also. Otherwise, they are presumably much better. They are right in the thick of things so I'm sure Williams is fine.
Granderson and Cuddyer kill this team. Really, they do. Other guys are garbage offensively but the other guys are young or relatively decent for the positions they play. It's these corner outfielders thats the main reason our offense is overall terrible this year.
Holy shiat!!!!!! Somebody gets it. A far cry for the spring training prediction hype. Questions around the diamond
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you need to take a step back from the keyboard or the Mets for a while. You're so incredibly defensive in nature ...it's either due to selective reading, blind emotion or lack of understanding.
My post was sensible and fair and if you don't care for it because it bruises your sensitvities and differs from your opinion then try your level best to move on. Not one player at this level should be above reproach, period.
How is that sensitive? lol. They are both incredibly young in their first full season. They have a whopping 17 games of chemistry together. How anybody would expect this to go 1000 percent perfect from day one is beyond me. Obviously you aren't a fan of advanced stats but they are both well above average defensively for their positions.
And this is nothing personal man. Im talking in general to everyone who is so ridiculously hard on these kids the second they make a mistake.
Dude, I typed the words "youth" and "chemistry" in my original post then you regurgitate them in explaining away why we're witnessing what we are on the field? If you'd prefer justifying matters on the field with advanced stats that's fine but when a player makes a mistake, whether mental or physical, I don't care to gloss over it.
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I'm starting to wonder how Matt Williams still has a job. And holy shit, people actually wanted the Mets to give up top prospects for Ian Desmond before the season? Massive, massive bullet dodged.
The Nats have been killed with injuries also. Otherwise, they are presumably much better. They are right in the thick of things so I'm sure Williams is fine.
They've had their share of injuries but they have a bunch of guys underperforming. No one seems to feel sorry for us or think we can use injuries as an excuse, so..
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In comment 12334152 Stufftherun said:
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you need to take a step back from the keyboard or the Mets for a while. You're so incredibly defensive in nature ...it's either due to selective reading, blind emotion or lack of understanding.
My post was sensible and fair and if you don't care for it because it bruises your sensitvities and differs from your opinion then try your level best to move on. Not one player at this level should be above reproach, period.
How is that sensitive? lol. They are both incredibly young in their first full season. They have a whopping 17 games of chemistry together. How anybody would expect this to go 1000 percent perfect from day one is beyond me. Obviously you aren't a fan of advanced stats but they are both well above average defensively for their positions.
And this is nothing personal man. Im talking in general to everyone who is so ridiculously hard on these kids the second they make a mistake.
Dude, I typed the words "youth" and "chemistry" in my original post then you regurgitate them in explaining away why we're witnessing what we are on the field? If you'd prefer justifying matters on the field with advanced stats that's fine but when a player makes a mistake, whether mental or physical, I don't care to gloss over it.
Well than I apologize. I guess I have no idea what you were talking about then. It sounded like you are saying at what point do these kids be held accountable for their actions. At least thats how I took it. And Flores was excellent turning the double play last year and among the leaders this year. I haven't seen anything from herrera that tells me its an issue there either.
Just because we haven't turned a lot this year doesn't mean much to me when we had Cambell and Muno manning two spots for huge chunks of the season.
The line drive hit directly to Flores has to be caught, no if's and's or but's. The DP ball was very difficult, the base runner was on top of him in a hurry, no doubt about it.
The fact that this team has had well documented difficulties completing DP's has been brought up time and again by our own broadcast team, it's a problem. Is it a lack of chemistry, lack of communication or lack of cohesion due to the influx of different faces in the infield or is it a question of youth, skill and instincts? Who the hell knows but a DP in a key spot sure as hell can give a team a lift and help the guy out on the mound.
And yes, of course, The Big Greasy should bear down and overcome weak infield play but there's no question you that can't keep giving the opposition extra outs without getting hurt somewhere along the line.
Bottom line, make the routine plays and the plays you're supposed to make on a consistent basis and it'll go a long way to this teams success.
Very good, sensible post. I actually would go even stronger to say the plays they should make are absolutely necessary since they only have a few guys with plus range who can make the spectacular play. IMO they also need to add at least 1 legitimately plus defender to the infield. Not necessarily saying it has to happen right this second, but to build the strongest team possible Flores either moves over to 2B or 3B and the overall defense up the middle is strengthened with a strong defender at SS.
Verrett did better today than his previous outings with the Orioles and Rangers.
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are when watching what appears to me like the Mets - Jays game ...
The line drive hit directly to Flores has to be caught, no if's and's or but's. The DP ball was very difficult, the base runner was on top of him in a hurry, no doubt about it.
The fact that this team has had well documented difficulties completing DP's has been brought up time and again by our own broadcast team, it's a problem. Is it a lack of chemistry, lack of communication or lack of cohesion due to the influx of different faces in the infield or is it a question of youth, skill and instincts? Who the hell knows but a DP in a key spot sure as hell can give a team a lift and help the guy out on the mound.
And yes, of course, The Big Greasy should bear down and overcome weak infield play but there's no question you that can't keep giving the opposition extra outs without getting hurt somewhere along the line.
Bottom line, make the routine plays and the plays you're supposed to make on a consistent basis and it'll go a long way to this teams success.
Very good, sensible post. I actually would go even stronger to say the plays they should make are absolutely necessary since they only have a few guys with plus range who can make the spectacular play. IMO they also need to add at least 1 legitimately plus defender to the infield. Not necessarily saying it has to happen right this second, but to build the strongest team possible Flores either moves over to 2B or 3B and the overall defense up the middle is strengthened with a strong defender at SS.
Oh so your saying Flores should be good at making plays "in his zone" then right. I guess its good that he does then. ;)
Atlanta and Washington are both currently losing. Braves are just 3.5 games behind the Mets.
Cechinni might be cooling off a little.
Ok thats fair. I was just ribbing you because you just pointed out Flores was amongst the leaders in that category and was arguably the best in baseball last year.
So, Flores moves out of the way and the base runner extends his leg to take him out...THATS what your bitching about? Ho Lee Shit.
So, Flores moves out of the way and the base runner extends his leg to take him out...THATS what your bitching about? Ho Lee Shit.
THANK YOU!
His range is fine.
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In comment 12334158 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 12334152 Stufftherun said:
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you need to take a step back from the keyboard or the Mets for a while. You're so incredibly defensive in nature ...it's either due to selective reading, blind emotion or lack of understanding.
My post was sensible and fair and if you don't care for it because it bruises your sensitvities and differs from your opinion then try your level best to move on. Not one player at this level should be above reproach, period.
How is that sensitive? lol. They are both incredibly young in their first full season. They have a whopping 17 games of chemistry together. How anybody would expect this to go 1000 percent perfect from day one is beyond me. Obviously you aren't a fan of advanced stats but they are both well above average defensively for their positions.
And this is nothing personal man. Im talking in general to everyone who is so ridiculously hard on these kids the second they make a mistake.
Dude, I typed the words "youth" and "chemistry" in my original post then you regurgitate them in explaining away why we're witnessing what we are on the field? If you'd prefer justifying matters on the field with advanced stats that's fine but when a player makes a mistake, whether mental or physical, I don't care to gloss over it.
Well than I apologize. I guess I have no idea what you were talking about then. It sounded like you are saying at what point do these kids be held accountable for their actions. At least thats how I took it. And Flores was excellent turning the double play last year and among the leaders this year. I haven't seen anything from herrera that tells me its an issue there either.
Just because we haven't turned a lot this year doesn't mean much to me when we had Cambell and Muno manning two spots for huge chunks of the season.
Hence my reference to the "influx" of different faces in the infield. I get the feeling you read the first sentence of my post then indiscrimanantely fired of your retort.
Bottom line is, it's ok to criticize this team when it's performing at a Double A level and conversely it's ok to celebrate their successes.
Agree to disagree. Most of the names you mentioned are average. Granderson hasn't made a single great catch since he's been here.
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currently Tejada, Herrera, Lagares, and Granderson all have above average range. Tejada is filling in for a gold glover so Id count that as an above average position right now. Catcher doesn't count. Duda and Flores have been at least average. So who has no range? Cuddyer? Sure. Ill go with that.
Agree to disagree. Most of the names you mentioned are average. Granderson hasn't made a single great catch since he's been here.
Yeah but he covers ground and there are actual numbers that show this. His issue is his weak ass arm. Thats fine though. Hope you have a nice night.
His range is fine.
That's such BS. You also think Grandy has good range.
I figured that to be the case. Gonna have to ratchet back a bit, it's going to be a long and bumpy ride ...again.
And weirdly Cuddyer actually has above average range ratings this year currently as well. You have to remember that the majority of corner outfielders are big lumbering power hitters. Even somebody like Stanton who is still very young has historically had very poor defensive ratings and has shown little to no range. He's doing a little better this year but it doesn't change my point.
Yup. And I'm by no means innocent, but I think we really all need to find the happy medium, lol.
Ive never seen so many anti and pro fans of one player in I really don't know when. Its amazing what fuels this Flores nonsense day in and day out.
Ugh. Should have sold high on Colon when we had the chance! lol
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the same shit on every Mets game thread.
Ive never seen so many anti and pro fans of one player in I really don't know when. Its amazing what fuels this Flores nonsense day in and day out.
Everyone needs a scapegoat. Flores was that guy before ever stepping on the field.
Ugh. Should have sold high on Colon when we had the chance! lol
at least COlon wins games.. I hope that trend continues..
I'm also hoping that Herrrara, who looks like a slick fielding 2nd basemen, has enough range up the middle, to take pressure off Flores. But, Flores nay not make errors now but does not get to lots of balls that a good SS should get to or just makes mistakes that don't show up in the box score. Looking at him any other way is looking thru rose colored glasses.
But, the fact that people are focusing on THAT unturned DP in tonight's game is proof that people are so over the top, irrational about Flores' defense. That's what makes these threads so hard to stomach. It's less about me or Z being Flores "cheerleaders" and more about being more realistic on why we lost the game. But everyone thinks they are right...so...this is what we get. Then add the village idiot running around the place looking for his helmut while spouting off the ignorant ramblings of a turnip.
We all want Simmons at SS...Flores will never be that. But we could do a lot worse. There was plenty of blame to go around tonight. A lot should be on Colon. He got a raw deal tonight, for sure, but he was also really bad.
But, the fact that people are focusing on THAT unturned DP in tonight's game is proof that people are so over the top, irrational about Flores' defense. That's what makes these threads so hard to stomach. It's less about me or Z being Flores "cheerleaders" and more about being more realistic on why we lost the game. But everyone thinks they are right...so...this is what we get. Then add the village idiot running around the place looking for his helmut while spouting off the ignorant ramblings of a turnip.
We all want Simmons at SS...Flores will never be that. But we could do a lot worse. There was plenty of blame to go around tonight. A lot should be on Colon. He got a raw deal tonight, for sure, but he was also really bad.
Post of the year. Because it was sound as a pound and I almost spit up my drink laughing on the village idiot part. lol
fact that people are focusing on THAT unturned DP in tonight's game is proof that people are so over the top, irrational about Flores' defense. .
Lol - you're a joke. You defended Flores and had not even watched the game. You referred to highlights later and still don't recognize many, including the Mets announcer and the post game show, were on Flores for the botched line drive. You're nuts.
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
Great post as usual. And oh they'll offer up great alternatives like Castro and Desmond in the offseason and then go into hiding about those players after realizing that Flores has been better than them all.
And why does moving a player who's greatest asset is his bazooka of an arm to 2nd make any sense anyway? I could see 3rd base possibly in his future down the road, but right now we have Wright and Murphy in his way.
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
Thank you... all this whining and complaining when as you said there are no viable alternatives. And forget the fact, Flores is playing his 1st full season at SS at 23 yrs old. And forget the fact, he has also WON a few games for the Mets and has been getting more and more comfortable playing everyday which has shown with his play on the field and at the plate. He's improving folks and WILL CONTINUE to improve.
You hypocrite lol
You never even leave the keyboard and respond to to 90% of the posts here. Most of the cheerleaders go nuts defending or praising anything in Flores direction. Nobody can post about the guy without the cheerleaders chiming in.
Good lord - it's supposed to be discussing baseball not "he's the greatest, a target, you're a troll' BS.
but the offense would really take off when TDA and Herera returned.
The "fucking" blue jays? You mean that had won 10 in a row before Monday, and had scored 80+ runs during that time? Those Blue Jays??
It's not like they lost to the Phillies, for crissakes. They got blown out. It happens.
Comical, eh? Alright Maverick.. let's hear your plan.
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What a fucking disgrace
The "fucking" blue jays? You mean that had won 10 in a row before Monday, and had scored 80+ runs during that time? Those Blue Jays??
It's not like they lost to the Phillies, for crissakes. They got blown out. It happens.
Oh so the blue jays are some juggernaut now? Didn't the mets win 11 in a row also? How is that working out for them?
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In comment 12334308 Giants4246 said:
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What a fucking disgrace
The "fucking" blue jays? You mean that had won 10 in a row before Monday, and had scored 80+ runs during that time? Those Blue Jays??
It's not like they lost to the Phillies, for crissakes. They got blown out. It happens.
Oh so the blue jays are some juggernaut now? Didn't the mets win 11 in a row also? How is that working out for them?
Ummm - Mets won 11 games back in April, clearly they have struggled since then. Blue Jays JUST won 10 games in a row, and have been playing out of their freakin' minds. Mets are the only team to beat them in the last two weeks.
Do you really not see the difference?
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
That's the sad part of it all, with the dearth of potential solutions there isn't anything to offer. Regardless of whether it's the SS position, 3rd base, LF, RF or a given SP, we have every concern and right to reference a miscue or poor play if it's warranted. And for those who aren't comfortable with the concept of criticism, take a step back and understand that it's nothing more than frustration ...it's not a personal affront.
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In comment 12334314 speedywheels said:
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In comment 12334308 Giants4246 said:
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What a fucking disgrace
The "fucking" blue jays? You mean that had won 10 in a row before Monday, and had scored 80+ runs during that time? Those Blue Jays??
It's not like they lost to the Phillies, for crissakes. They got blown out. It happens.
Oh so the blue jays are some juggernaut now? Didn't the mets win 11 in a row also? How is that working out for them?
Ummm - Mets won 11 games back in April, clearly they have struggled since then. Blue Jays JUST won 10 games in a row, and have been playing out of their freakin' minds. Mets are the only team to beat them in the last two weeks.
Do you really not see the difference?
What exactly is your point? Are you defending being shut out last night and then following that up tonight with 3 goddamn hits? Can this team play one fucking game without making an error?
No, it doesn't excuse scoring one run in two games, or playing such poor defense.
But its not "a fucking disgrace" to lose to a team that hadn't lost in almost two weeks.
Shit happens. Back at it tomorrow..
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Presenting the question like it's a new idea is comical.
Comical, eh? Alright Maverick.. let's hear your plan.
Again so you can claim anybody who you disagrees with you is the dumbest poster here? Thanks but I'll stick with those who don't go flying off the handles like they got hit in the head with a Flying Puck.
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What the hell is the alternative?
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
That's the sad part of it all, with the dearth of potential solutions there isn't anything to offer. Regardless of whether it's the SS position, 3rd base, LF, RF or a given SP, we have every concern and right to reference a miscue or poor play if it's warranted. And for those who aren't comfortable with the concept of criticism, take a step back and understand that it's nothing more than frustration ...it's not a personal affront.
That's fine.. I didn't say to never criticize anyone. But this is where we are at right now. We are hoping Flores continues to improve or that one of the kids in the pipe will force our hand and take over the position. There's really not an obvious alternative staring us in the face that would improve the situation right now and to be honest, we have bigger issues than the IF defense.
Its' just grating when every single thread turns into this same thing after a loss.
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In comment 12334309 Giants2012 said:
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Presenting the question like it's a new idea is comical.
Comical, eh? Alright Maverick.. let's hear your plan.
Again so you can claim anybody who you disagrees with you is the dumbest poster here? Thanks but I'll stick with those who don't go flying off the handles like they got hit in the head with a Flying Puck.
That's what I thought. You've got nothing.
Complain away, Maverick.
That's what I thought. You've got nothing.
Complain away, Maverick.
Crosby lol - you got schooled both here and in the NHL thread. Don't blame me b/c you can't learn or recall. I posted my solutions here like the NHL threads. You're the one with nothing more than a Flying Puck to the arrogant mouth. Man up or Crosby off as usual.
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What the hell is the alternative?
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
That's the sad part of it all, with the dearth of potential solutions there isn't anything to offer. Regardless of whether it's the SS position, 3rd base, LF, RF or a given SP, we have every concern and right to reference a miscue or poor play if it's warranted. And for those who aren't comfortable with the concept of criticism, take a step back and understand that it's nothing more than frustration ...it's not a personal affront.
"it's not a personal affront"
Neither is our defense of Flores. There two differing points. I think us Flores supporters have very good points against those who are acting out of frustration.
Criticism is fine...illogical or unreasonable criticism is fair game to be debated. I could easily say that the Flores critics shouldn't be so close minded. Goes both ways.
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That's what I thought. You've got nothing.
Complain away, Maverick.
Crosby lol - you got schooled both here and in the NHL thread. Don't blame me b/c you can't learn or recall. I posted my solutions here like the NHL threads. You're the one with nothing more than a Flying Puck to the arrogant mouth. Man up or Crosby off as usual.
C'mon.. let's talk baseball, Maverick. What's your solution for the infield. I'm giving you the mic. Let's hear it.
No, it doesn't excuse scoring one run in two games, or playing such poor defense.
But its not "a fucking disgrace" to lose to a team that hadn't lost in almost two weeks.
Shit happens. Back at it tomorrow..
Ok so the jays have been hot the past few weeks but make no mistake about it, they are a mediocre team. As a matter of fact, they were 7 games under .500 before their miracle 11 game win streak. So no, i'm not impressed with the jays. The mets can just as easily get outscored 15-1 in 2 games to the phillies. Thats the fucking disgrace. The offense sucks, the defense sucks, godforbid colon or harvey have a hiccup and get bombed, this team has no shot in those games.
Gosh guys, get a grip. It's a baseball thread.
Lol. You think nicer thoughts than me. Ill hope thats the case. At first I just thought he was really young but now Im genuinely scared we are all dealing with somebody who really doesn't know any better.
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In comment 12334292 arcarsenal said:
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What the hell is the alternative?
If we move Flores off SS, where are we putting him? If you put him at 3B, there's nowhere to put Murphy. If Wright does come back, you have to take him out of the lineup.
There's no way we're moving Herrera off 2B.
And the even bigger question is who do people want to play SS instead? Tejada? No thank you. Reynolds isn't going to be the answer. Cecchini isn't ready. Rosario is 2 years away.. at least.
Are we supposed to unload top prospects for Tulo, who, value-wise hasn't provided much more than Flores, who is injury prone and whose numbers will almost assuredly dip some once he leaves Coors?
Where is this defensive whiz that we're supposed to plug in at SS who won't be a major downgrade offensively from Wilmer?
There's so much complaining and whining about the IF situation but no one seems to offer up any viable alternatives.
That's the sad part of it all, with the dearth of potential solutions there isn't anything to offer. Regardless of whether it's the SS position, 3rd base, LF, RF or a given SP, we have every concern and right to reference a miscue or poor play if it's warranted. And for those who aren't comfortable with the concept of criticism, take a step back and understand that it's nothing more than frustration ...it's not a personal affront.
That's fine.. I didn't say to never criticize anyone. But this is where we are at right now. We are hoping Flores continues to improve or that one of the kids in the pipe will force our hand and take over the position. There's really not an obvious alternative staring us in the face that would improve the situation right now and to be honest, we have bigger issues than the IF defense.
Its' just grating when every single thread turns into this same thing after a loss.
It's compounded by the fact that they weren't even competitive these last two nights. Shutout for the better part of two games and outscored 15 to 1 ...you can't help but shake your head at that shit.
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Very few of his sentences read coherently. They're very oddly structured and hard to follow. It reminds me of Peggy from those Capital One commercials.
Lol. You think nicer thoughts than me. Ill hope thats the case. At first I just thought he was really young but now Im genuinely scared we are all dealing with somebody who really doesn't know any better.
Like I said, a turnip. He literally does nothing but bitch and moan and berate EVERYBODY. It's fascinating really.
Gosh guys, get a grip. It's a baseball thread.
Ah.. folding again, Maverick? All talk. Thought you had all the answers.. you know, since it was so "comical" that I had even questioned it.
Til tomorrow.
Night, gents!
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In comment 12334352 arcarsenal said:
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Very few of his sentences read coherently. They're very oddly structured and hard to follow. It reminds me of Peggy from those Capital One commercials.
Lol. You think nicer thoughts than me. Ill hope thats the case. At first I just thought he was really young but now Im genuinely scared we are all dealing with somebody who really doesn't know any better.
Like I said, a turnip. He literally does nothing but bitch and moan and berate EVERYBODY. It's fascinating really.
I just think he might genuinely have a condition or something. I literally could see him in his living room with his laptop wearing a helmet. Not even joking.
I believe the bigger part of this is a backlash against the FO that they simply have never prioritized defense. They are flanking Lagares with 2 sub standard COF'ers and regardless of the hope we have for Flores to improve we know beyond any doubt Murphy is a bad defensive player. Rubin has been making a lot of comments the past few days on twitter about the FO's stance on defense and to me it's pretty disconcerting in the sense that they just don't think it's that important. They built a team founded on pitching and have left themselves wide open to losing close games because of bad defense. Flores is just a part of that equation for me. Granderson, Cuddyer, Murphy, Duda are equal contributors being average at best defensive players making up an average at best defensive team when the ball's hit anywhere other than CF.
so this team needs to do something. The beauty of 162 games you get to identify the idiots and their responses. You see a response from them, you just go past them. The continuity is off, but you can still enjoy talking baseball with real fans of the team
I believe the bigger part of this is a backlash against the FO that they simply have never prioritized defense. They are flanking Lagares with 2 sub standard COF'ers and regardless of the hope we have for Flores to improve we know beyond any doubt Murphy is a bad defensive player. Rubin has been making a lot of comments the past few days on twitter about the FO's stance on defense and to me it's pretty disconcerting in the sense that they just don't think it's that important. They built a team founded on pitching and have left themselves wide open to losing close games because of bad defense. Flores is just a part of that equation for me. Granderson, Cuddyer, Murphy, Duda are equal contributors being average at best defensive players making up an average at best defensive team when the ball's hit anywhere other than CF.
But there's no opening at 2B long-term. Herrera was hitting like .370 in Vegas.. he has nothing left to learn there. We're not sending him back unless he's like.. woefully terrible for an extended time.
The only way Dilson is going to become the player we have hopes for is for him to play every day at the MLB level now. He's here and 2B is his for the foreseeable future. So moving Wilmer there is basically out of the question as far as I'm concerned.
I think a bigger problem is that we can't score. If we really, really want to prioritize defense we can... but that gives us even less offense. You don't win games by just pitching and defending. There's this misconception that SF just keeps winning WS' by blanking everyone and playing good defense but even they were an above average run-producing team last year.
The Mets will win nothing if they're in the bottom 3rd of the league in runs. Even if the defense were to improve somehow (which, I still don't see any realistic options unless you want to deliberately make the team worse by making Tejada the full time SS again and benching Flores or trading he or Murphy.. even then, if Wright returns, we have another log jam)
Lindsay - ( New Window )
And yes, Herrera has almost certainly reached the point where the only way for him to improve is by getting PT here in the majors. The last guys who deserve criticism on this team are the young players - Flores, Herrera, TdA, Lagares, even Duda. All of them are cheap and way overproducing their expectations/contracts on the aggregate. I do believe it's fair game to criticize the veterans and overall assembly of the roster because the financial resources they are spending are not adding very much. Cuddyer, Granderson, & Murphy make up 1/3 of the proposed opening day lineup and almost 40% of the payroll.
I genuinely believe the core frustration is that this franchise keeps trotting out mostly the same assembly of core every day players hoping for different results. Everyone just has their own unique way of projecting that frustration. Arguing the circumstances of why they've done what they done or haven't done more or the alternatives is futile because we don't truly know whatever other options they've had, but at some point results matter and offensively/defensively they are not good.
That's funny!
I sure am enjoying the Marlins meltdown though...
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they couldn't even beat a hockey team
That's funny!
I sure am enjoying the Marlins meltdown though...
I didn't watch the game last night .. Did Kessel get a hat trick?