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NFT: Knicks Chat: 3 trades the Knicks should consider?

DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 8:13 am
"Here are three trades that might make sense for both teams:

1. Sixers send three 2016 first-round picks (Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat and Oklahoma City Thunder) to Knicks for No. 4 overall.

For the Knicks, this deal knocks them out of the first-round this year, but it does set the up to be major players next year. The Knicks, like the Sixers do now, would own potentially as many as four first-round picks in the 2016 NBA Draft, and would also have a ton of cap space to spend on free agents. Not getting a player this year would sting, but in the long run, this deal would set the Knicks up to re-build quickly.

2. Knicks send Jose Calderon (3 years, $7 million per) and No. 4 overall to Sixers for Henry Sims (1 year, $900,000), and two future-first round draft picks

If the Knicks want to spend big on free agents this year, getting bad money off the books is key. Signing Calderon has proven to be a mistake, and his contract is the worst on the Knicks payroll (unless you want to count Carmelo Anthony's deal). The Sixers would essentially be buying the pick, as well as giving up two future assets.

3. Knicks send Andre Bargnani (1 year, $11 million) and No. 4 overall to Sixers for Henry Sims (1 year, $900,000) and two future first-round picks

This deal is similar to the previous one, only it opens up more cap space this year for the Knicks. There are a number of marque free agents expected to be available, including Cleveland Cavalier forward Kevin Love. The Knicks would free up $11 million in cap space and collect two future first-round picks. The Sixers would get to pick at No. 3 and No. 4, and would likely buyout Bargnani."
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really hope  
Steve in Greenwich : 6/23/2015 10:05 am : link
that NYG16 is correct - there is not a single trade that I would make at this point. The further and further we get into this draft process the more I don't want a trade at all. Even in the pie in the sky scenario that we get Bledsoe and drop back to 13 and get WCS, I still believe the only way the Knicks win a championship is to land a franchise player. Yea, Mudiay, Russell, Okafor or Porzingas may be gigantic flops, but they all could become franchise players. I think WCS could be a nice player, Winslow could be a nice player, Trey Lyles could be a nice player and if you team them up with Bledsoe, Monroe and Melo you could have a very good team. But the only way the Knicks can build a real championship contender is to take on the risk of one of the top 5 guys and hope they hit. If they fail they fail, much like the last 20 years. But one thing I can say without certainty is that no team has won in the past 20 years by collecting the spare parts of other teams without having a backbone built through the draft.
Also if you trade for Bledsoe  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:08 am : link
and Calderon is not involved...Guess what? your not adding Monroe, Knicks would only have around 12 million to spend
The Dallas Mavericks?  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 10:09 am : link
Dirk is the only player they drafted. Technically, Kidd too but he was essentially a free agent acquisition.
After WCS  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 10:10 am : link
I really don't like too many of the rest of the guys in the draft, except maybe Dekker and Booker. Huge concerns with most of the other prospects. Not really for a trade back.
thats one of those scenarios...  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 10:12 am : link
where you could maybe stretch calderon to get the extra few mill needed for Monroe. I remember Monroe/Bledsoe seemed like the dream offseason last year when it looked like both would be UFA this offseason.

Chris Mannix at SI just posted his latest mock that has us taking KP. Seems to be a common pick right now. I always wonder if each reporter is hearing the same stuff or if they are all just parroting like a Chad Ford.
RE: The Dallas Mavericks?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:12 am : link
In comment 12338568 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Dirk is the only player they drafted. Technically, Kidd too but he was essentially a free agent acquisition.


So Dirk was not the backbone of that team?

Spurs: Duncan, Ginobli, parker, Leonard
Heat: Wade and haslem
Celtics: paul Pierce
Lakers: Kobe
Warriors: Curry and Klay

you need to draft a superstar player to get over the top because of the salary cap...you then have a star player cost controlled...you then can add the spare parts around him a lot easier with more money..
RE: thats one of those scenarios...  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12338575 Italianju said:
Quote:
where you could maybe stretch calderon to get the extra few mill needed for Monroe. I remember Monroe/Bledsoe seemed like the dream offseason last year when it looked like both would be UFA this offseason.

Chris Mannix at SI just posted his latest mock that has us taking KP. Seems to be a common pick right now. I always wonder if each reporter is hearing the same stuff or if they are all just parroting like a Chad Ford.


Givony has us taking him as well and he 100% does have league sources. Hahn also implied he's legit on our radar.


KP TIME BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: thats one of those scenarios...  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:15 am : link
In comment 12338575 Italianju said:
Quote:
where you could maybe stretch calderon to get the extra few mill needed for Monroe. I remember Monroe/Bledsoe seemed like the dream offseason last year when it looked like both would be UFA this offseason.

Chris Mannix at SI just posted his latest mock that has us taking KP. Seems to be a common pick right now. I always wonder if each reporter is hearing the same stuff or if they are all just parroting like a Chad Ford.


Porzingis is the new flavor of the week because they had him in for a workout yesterday...so now every beat writer thinks the Knicks are taking him...
but didnt a lot of mocks like...  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 10:18 am : link
ford and DX have him to us prior to the workout on Monday? His size is so intriguing. I was watching the NBA draft show on NBA tv last night and they were talking about him for a bit and showed a lot of video on him, he is def a guy you can get excited about.
Wasn't necessarily disagreeing with his point  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 10:18 am : link
Just saying outside Dirk that team was pretty much spare parts. Don't think current Melo is that much worse than Dirk was that championship year. Not saying its going to happen but the blueprint is there.
I'll  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 10:19 am : link
get blasted for it... but how about giving the fans some excitement level. Not that you can get excited over some of the other names but there is something about the "unknown" that makes Porzingis so intriguing. He doesn't sound like a "Euro pussy" in interviews either. in fact, personality wise he sounds more like Dirk.
I wonder if all this press for Porzingis, especially w/the Knicks  
TheMick7 : 6/23/2015 10:20 am : link
working him out yesterday is a way of forcing the Magic to move up one, giving the Knicks an asset & the 5th pick?
RE: I wonder if all this press for Porzingis, especially w/the Knicks  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2015 10:22 am : link
In comment 12338589 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
working him out yesterday is a way of forcing the Magic to move up one, giving the Knicks an asset & the 5th pick?


That's the most sensible explanation. If they love him enough to just take him, however, I'd applaud them for being bold.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 10:22 am : link
know most have seen this video already but boy is this kid fluid for his size. He doesn't remind me of Bargnani or Weis at all.
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RE: Wasn't necessarily disagreeing with his point  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:25 am : link
In comment 12338584 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Just saying outside Dirk that team was pretty much spare parts. Don't think current Melo is that much worse than Dirk was that championship year. Not saying its going to happen but the blueprint is there.




Dirk absolutely dominated that playoffs and carried that team...

He averaged 27 points 8 rebounds and 2.5 assists that playoffs shooting 48% and 46% FROM 3...

i wish Melo played like that a couple of years ago in the playoffs
The chance that KP will go at 4 is very real, I think.  
manh george : 6/23/2015 10:25 am : link
The chances that the Knicks will keep the pick are much less so. Several scenarios have the trade happening after the draft, not at it, because the Knicks need to know how far any players they are targeting are going to fall.

The thing about WCS is that the Knicks seem to have scouted him pretty extensively. IF--and a big one at that--they believe he has substantial offensive upside, then he really fits them well, because his defense is strong and his athleticism is off the charts, and he would thus work well along side Murray. They know what they got out of workouts on that score, we will find out.

And, of course, I very much doubt it would be at the #4 slot. If they can get another rotation player or the elimination of Calderon's contract with a trade down, it becomes more intriguing.

One article last night indicated that he might have a problem with a surgical pin in his foot, though.

With the trades for future picks, the Knicks suck again this year. I doubt Jackson has the balls to take that risk. Dropping out of the playoffs in a year we don't even have our own #1 is incredibly risky. The mess of non-owned future draft picks is probably Jackson's biggest headache.
knicks could also be pushing ORL...  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 10:25 am : link
to make a deal with PHI for KP which would push Russell down to us.

Also:
Al Iannazzone ‏@Al_Iannazzone 4m4 minutes ago
Pistons president/coach Stan Van Gundy says he's "not entirely optimistic" about re-signing Greg Monroe, who many expect to be a Knick.
If the Cousins trade does go through, it would not surprise me one bit  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 10:26 am : link
if the Magic took Porzingis over Okafor and then Okafor would fall to the Knicks.
..  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:26 am : link
Al Iannazzone ‏@Al_Iannazzone 7m7 minutes ago
Pistons president/coach Stan Van Gundy says he's "not entirely optimistic" about re-signing Greg Monroe, who many expect to be a Knick.
Who  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 10:28 am : link
knows how true it is but the "experts" seem to believe Russell is #1 on Phil's list but doesn't see him there at 4.
I dont think the Knicks are trading out  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:30 am : link
but maybe that is just because i trust my source...
I'd like to see them take Porzingas  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2015 10:32 am : link
For the simple reason that he seems like the guy with the highest upside. Gamble on greatness. If it takes him a few seasons to get there, so what?
Anyone know what this is about?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:32 am : link
Shams Charania ‏@ShamsCharania 1m1 minute ago
NBPA told agents in meeting Monday that it is researching Philadelphia for possible violation of collective bargaining, sources tell RealGM.
..  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:33 am : link
Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 1m1 minute ago
He's 100% right RT @GwashburnGlobe: Danny Ainge: "There should be a lot of movement on draft night, so stay tuned."
wonder what PHI could have done...  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 10:35 am : link
..

Whatever it is they should probably take their pick away...
.  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 10:38 am : link
Kurt Helin ‏@basketballtalk 51s51 seconds ago
Report: Kings shopping Rudy Gay, trying to create cap space to sign Rajon Rondo http://dlvr.it/BJL2Gr
I would be fine with them taking any of the top 4  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2015 10:39 am : link
Of those guys, maybe Russell is a bit less 'whelming', but I've heard he's a hell of a passer.
RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2015 10:39 am : link
In comment 12338630 Anakim said:
Quote:
Kurt Helin ‏@basketballtalk 51s51 seconds ago
Report: Kings shopping Rudy Gay, trying to create cap space to sign Rajon Rondo http://dlvr.it/BJL2Gr


LOL Rondo and Karl.

Two toxins that might explode, or neutralize each other.
Sounds like the Kings are the new Knicks.  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2015 10:39 am : link
There's hope for us yet...
RE: I'd like to see them take Porzingas  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 10:40 am : link
In comment 12338616 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
For the simple reason that he seems like the guy with the highest upside. Gamble on greatness. If it takes him a few seasons to get there, so what?


I agree
Lets trade one way overpriced descent player...  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 10:42 am : link
so that we can overpay another descent player. Sounds like a smart move
Knicks aren't taking Porzingis  
Aspano! : 6/23/2015 10:44 am : link
They'll either take Mudiay or Russell if he's there. They might also try to get everyone to believe they'll take Porzingis for a potential trade, but they're only going to draft players who can penetrate.
What are we even gonna do if Russell falls to us?  
Deej : 6/23/2015 10:44 am : link
Russell, Melo, Monroe. That's your core 3 players? That's some shitty defense right there. Not awful -- each is probably underrated defensively -- but you have to worry. You'd want your #4-6 players to be defensive stalwarts, and one of those starters would have to be a defensive captain type who drives the younger guys to try harder. Melo will just have to motivate himself on defense; which he might do since he's rarely played with firepower like Monroe and Russell (two legit efficient scorers/passers).

A kid like Mudiay makes a lot more sense to me for the Knick.
it's frightening  
MookGiants : 6/23/2015 10:46 am : link
to me how many Knicks fans are in a rush to be the 5th seed and lose in the 2nd round at best every year
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 10:47 am : link
want Monroe but he's not underrated defensively. He's an awful defensive player unless you are giving him credit for rebounding as part of defense or simply being a large body. Foot speed is awful, agility is awful, can't jump.
I haven't seen anyone...  
manh george : 6/23/2015 10:50 am : link
who thinks we take Mudiay if Russell is still on the board.

The strong consensus seems to be that right now for Jackson, there is a first plateau of 3, and Mudiay isn;t in it. Of course, Jackson has been silent since about Mudiay since the interview/workout, which could mean that he is playing possum.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2015 10:51 am : link
If Russell is there you have to take him.

I don't think he's going to be, but.. I am trying to hold out hope.
I can not believe someone got paid  
Sgrcts : 6/23/2015 10:51 am : link
to write that article.

Knicks should trade a guy who is a free agent to clear cap space? And give up the #4 pick in the draft for the privilege to do it?

Or the fact the guy says Calderon was a bad "signing"......


I think Russell can end up a solid...  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 10:52 am : link
defender. Melo is fine and Monroe can be ok. Guys who are great offensively and defensively are rare and not available so. You get a defensive big to go with Monroe and a defensive 2 guard. Pretty much what we have all been saying all season.
RE: RE: Wasn't necessarily disagreeing with his point  
Lopes1984 : 6/23/2015 10:54 am : link
Quote:
Dirk absolutely dominated that playoffs and carried that team...

He averaged 27 points 8 rebounds and 2.5 assists that playoffs shooting 48% and 46% FROM 3...

i wish Melo played like that a couple of years ago in the playoffs


In Melo's defense, ask Lebron James how easy it is trying to win in the postseason with JR Smith as your second best player. I know Lebron filled up the stat sheet, but his shooting numbers and efficiency were way off from what they normally are. Lebron for that one series got a taste of what Carmelo has had to deal with for basically his whole tenure as a Knick.
Part  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 11:00 am : link
2 of the Porzingis feature
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RE: it's frightening  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2015 11:01 am : link
In comment 12338643 MookGiants said:
Quote:
to me how many Knicks fans are in a rush to be the 5th seed and lose in the 2nd round at best every year


If there's a plan that guarantees something beyond that, we're all ears. I'd love to draft Russell and sign Gasol, and get another big fish next offseason, but teams owned by James Dolan in cold-weather climates with 40-year championship droughts aren't able to execute Plan A all that often.

I'm all for saving the money for a rainy day, however, rather than handing $80 million to Greg Monroe.
Can't we just borrow the blueprint for greatness from Prokie?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2015 11:03 am : link
I think they're done with it.

RE: I  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 11:03 am : link
In comment 12338645 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
want Monroe but he's not underrated defensively. He's an awful defensive player unless you are giving him credit for rebounding as part of defense or simply being a large body. Foot speed is awful, agility is awful, can't jump.


103 defensive rating and his 1.3 DBPM was more than twice his offensive BPM. Whatever he's doing with those slow feet that can't jump is working on that side of the ball.
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 11:05 am : link
Quote:
Defensively, Monroe is big enough to get in the way of opposing scorers but blocks shots at the same rate as Mike Dunleavy. A rim protector he is not; Monroe has neither the feel for coverage nor the vertical lift to really challenge opponents at the basket, making it all the more important that he be flanked by a player who can. At the same time, Monroe's minutes at power forward have illustrated his troubles in recovering out to perimeter threats. The further an opponent strays from the paint the more pressure it puts on Monroe's lumbering recovery. He does his part to chase out to the three-point line when necessary, though rarely does so quickly enough or with enough balance to help steady his team's defense. Monroe is stuck between, in a sense: Not quick enough to hang with most opponents stationed outside and not imposing enough to help anchor a top defense inside.

Given those limitations, how would one go about building a roster to best take advantage of what Monroe's talents? His post work would go most smoothly alongside a stretchy big capable of spreading the floor. His defensive issues, though, need be addressed by a more conventional rim-protecting counterpart. In the frontcourt alone that means Monroe's team would be aiming for a defensive pillar with shooting range -- an intersection of remarkable rarity. Barring an unexpected union with Anthony Davis, Monroe might be faced with a career of somewhat clumsy fits. He's already seen the lot of them in Detroit, where in four seasons the Pistons only managed three positive lineups with Monroe among the 17 that played 100 minutes or more, per NBA.com. Some of that is the mark of a consistently bad, mismanaged team. Another part, though, speaks to the difficulty of finding and acquiring the right kinds of pieces needed to build around a sub-superstar so particular.







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RE: RE: Wasn't necessarily disagreeing with his point  
kash94 : 6/23/2015 11:06 am : link
In comment 12338600 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12338584 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Just saying outside Dirk that team was pretty much spare parts. Don't think current Melo is that much worse than Dirk was that championship year. Not saying its going to happen but the blueprint is there.





Dirk absolutely dominated that playoffs and carried that team...

He averaged 27 points 8 rebounds and 2.5 assists that playoffs shooting 48% and 46% FROM 3...

i wish Melo played like that a couple of years ago in the playoffs


Well two seasons ago with an incredibly shitty roster, Melo averaged 27, 8, 3 shooting 45% and 40% from 3 so it's not that far off. And that was during an entire SEASON.

Melo is also a career 25.7 ppg scorer in the post season including 26+ ppg his last 5 postseasons. Granted, his three point percentage is much lower.

That said Dirk won that year but I feel like that's more of an outlier than the norm.
Monroe is ok 1 on 1  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 11:06 am : link
but he is never going to be a good help defender he is not athletic enough...

Offensively he is the perfect fit for the triangle as a big man...
RE: RE: it's frightening  
MookGiants : 6/23/2015 11:09 am : link
In comment 12338676 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 12338643 MookGiants said:


Quote:


to me how many Knicks fans are in a rush to be the 5th seed and lose in the 2nd round at best every year



If there's a plan that guarantees something beyond that, we're all ears. I'd love to draft Russell and sign Gasol, and get another big fish next offseason, but teams owned by James Dolan in cold-weather climates with 40-year championship droughts aren't able to execute Plan A all that often.

I'm all for saving the money for a rainy day, however, rather than handing $80 million to Greg Monroe.


There is no plan that guarantees something beyond that. But some of the plans people are coming up with guarantee at best that.

Swing for the fences. Nothing gained, nothing lost if it doesn't work out.
It isn't clear, Mook...  
manh george : 6/23/2015 11:10 am : link
what you consider a swing for the fences plan.

Could you clarify?
.  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 11:12 am : link
ProBasketballTalk ‏@nbcprobballtalk 8s9 seconds ago
Report: Julius Randle in play in Lakers-Kings DeMarcus Cousins trade talks
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