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NFT: Knicks Chat: 3 trades the Knicks should consider?

DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 8:13 am
"Here are three trades that might make sense for both teams:

1. Sixers send three 2016 first-round picks (Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat and Oklahoma City Thunder) to Knicks for No. 4 overall.

For the Knicks, this deal knocks them out of the first-round this year, but it does set the up to be major players next year. The Knicks, like the Sixers do now, would own potentially as many as four first-round picks in the 2016 NBA Draft, and would also have a ton of cap space to spend on free agents. Not getting a player this year would sting, but in the long run, this deal would set the Knicks up to re-build quickly.

2. Knicks send Jose Calderon (3 years, $7 million per) and No. 4 overall to Sixers for Henry Sims (1 year, $900,000), and two future-first round draft picks

If the Knicks want to spend big on free agents this year, getting bad money off the books is key. Signing Calderon has proven to be a mistake, and his contract is the worst on the Knicks payroll (unless you want to count Carmelo Anthony's deal). The Sixers would essentially be buying the pick, as well as giving up two future assets.

3. Knicks send Andre Bargnani (1 year, $11 million) and No. 4 overall to Sixers for Henry Sims (1 year, $900,000) and two future first-round picks

This deal is similar to the previous one, only it opens up more cap space this year for the Knicks. There are a number of marque free agents expected to be available, including Cleveland Cavalier forward Kevin Love. The Knicks would free up $11 million in cap space and collect two future first-round picks. The Sixers would get to pick at No. 3 and No. 4, and would likely buyout Bargnani."
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Underrated  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 3:37 pm : link
stupid move we all ignore

"On October 27, 2014, Outlaw was traded, along with a 2019 second-round draft selection and the option exchange 2018 second-round draft selections, to the Philadelphia 76ers in exchange for Arnett Moultrie.[10] "
2nd rounders are easily attainable, aren't they?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2015 3:46 pm : link
That's how Early was drafted.
RE: 2nd rounders are easily attainable, aren't they?  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12339348 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That's how Early was drafted.


I was just told in an above post that people no longer give them away. How can it go both ways?
Dan  
djm : 6/23/2015 3:57 pm : link
The Knicks gave away the 2nd because they wanted to shed salary. The Mavs gave up two seconds and 2 players to acquire Chandler.

Like I said, the Knicks weren't turning chicken shit into chicken salad this last calendar year. Phil is officially on the clock as we speak. IF this team isn't showing progress by Christmas or at least flashing some serious young talent, then get on Phil. Until then it's premature.
RE: RE: 2nd rounders are easily attainable, aren't they?  
djm : 6/23/2015 3:58 pm : link
In comment 12339360 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12339348 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


That's how Early was drafted.



I was just told in an above post that people no longer give them away. How can it go both ways?


Dan I was making a point. You can deflect all you want but you started this whole debate by shitting on Phil's statement that he did a great job shedding salary.

And no, team's don't just give picks away. Don't act stupid.
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 3:59 pm : link
In comment 12339367 djm said:
Quote:
The Knicks gave away the 2nd because they wanted to shed salary. The Mavs gave up two seconds and 2 players to acquire Chandler.

Like I said, the Knicks weren't turning chicken shit into chicken salad this last calendar year. Phil is officially on the clock as we speak. IF this team isn't showing progress by Christmas or at least flashing some serious young talent, then get on Phil. Until then it's premature.


Isn't Outlaw a FA now? How did this deal him the Knicks? Unless I'm reading his contract wrong we gave up a 2nd rounder to rid ourselves of a guy who was going to be a FA anyway, Mills claimed it was because we liked... Travis Wear. Very few on here are trashing Phil Jackson at this point but it's 100% fair to say he hasn't done much in the positive either.
djm  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:00 pm : link
you can honestly deep down say you believe Phil Jackson has been "impressive" or "excellent" to this point? I think you would be 100% in the minority. Every Knicks fan I speak to says "lets wait and see", I've yet to see one prior to you who has been "impressed", I'm not being snarky. I don't even see the most homerific Knicks fans on BBI saying they are "impressed".
you gotta give to get  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:01 pm : link
if you're getting 2nd rounders back then you either gave up a player of value or you took on a player with too much salary or some combo of both. Chandler was a little bit of both in my view. Solid player but getting older and making a lot of money. That's why he didn't net us more in return. Mosgov isn't the player Chandler is but he's younger and cheaper. That's why he fetched more.

Whatever...it's like watching a monkey fuck a football with this debate. ONe I seem to be having with myself. Carry on with your angst ridden speculation. It's certainly entertaining.
RE: djm  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:04 pm : link
In comment 12339374 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
you can honestly deep down say you believe Phil Jackson has been "impressive" or "excellent" to this point? I think you would be 100% in the minority. Every Knicks fan I speak to says "lets wait and see", I've yet to see one prior to you who has been "impressed", I'm not being snarky. I don't even see the most homerific Knicks fans on BBI saying they are "impressed".


No I don't think he's been excellent but I don't think he's done anything wrong either. And I don't really give a crap if Phil answers a loaded question from the media by saying he did an excellent job. That's just lip service of course the guy is gonna say that. You took the guy to task for responding with a BS answer to a BS question. That's kind of weak.

oh and when I say carry on with the angst ridden speulation  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:05 pm : link
I wasn't saying Dan I was saying everyone...lol
changing gears  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:07 pm : link
FWIW, Winslow is on FAN as we speak....

I'll try and transcribe:

-Worked out last friday--no more workouts...kind of stressful but fun...(who cares)

-Rooted for the Rockets as a kid (who cares)

-likes to travel (who cares)

-
i'm already bored...
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:09 pm : link
have nothing against Phil Jackson and I'm happy they hired him. I just haven't seen anything "impressive" yet and quite honestly his comments come off as pretty egotastic. He rips teams shooting the 3 ball when I believe the final 4 teams alive all were top 4 in 3 point attempts, he says the modern offense sucks etc. His BFF Rosen says things like we need a Kaminsky type for the offensve to work, he apparently loves Lyles. I just want some reason to believe that Phil Jackson is some genius in talent evaluation and roster construction. He's upset players care about their "brand"? It's 2015, deal with it.
Apparently  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:10 pm : link
quite a few teams have inquired into Royce White, one would think in a perfect would he'd be absolutely PERFECT in the triangle.
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:11 pm : link
Per USA Today, "We have zero interest in moving Cousins, so I don't know where that's coming from," Ranadive said when asked about an ESPN.com report in which a Kings-Los Angeles Lakers-Orlando Magic trade scenario was discussed. "But if you like, you should talk to (Kings vice president of basketball and franchise operations) Vlade (Divac), because I know Vlade feels exactly the same way. And I'm deferring to Vlade on everything. We have no interest in moving him. From my perspective, it's really simple: we feel that he's a one-of-a-kind player, and we have a group of players right now and we're going to build on it."
some more...  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:14 pm : link
-roommates with "G Money"--(the dude that carried Duke down the stretch in the final game, name escapes me)

-the entire process is crazy...working out for different teams...flying here and there...crazy process. Teams probe every way imaginable

-Winslow was never planning on going one and done..things obviously changed and it was time to declare

-feels his game is all about versatility - was asked to do a lot on the court despite playing with talented players

-doesn't know where he's gonna be drafted. No idea...

-no preference

it's still going but nothing major is being said...
Knicks  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:14 pm : link
worked out Joshua Smith. He's not projected to be drafted but MASSIVE body, upside. Why not?
Scouts  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:15 pm : link
apparently think Phil may be high on Looney if we trade for a later lotto pick using #4
RE: I  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:15 pm : link
In comment 12339391 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have nothing against Phil Jackson and I'm happy they hired him. I just haven't seen anything "impressive" yet and quite honestly his comments come off as pretty egotastic. He rips teams shooting the 3 ball when I believe the final 4 teams alive all were top 4 in 3 point attempts, he says the modern offense sucks etc. His BFF Rosen says things like we need a Kaminsky type for the offensve to work, he apparently loves Lyles. I just want some reason to believe that Phil Jackson is some genius in talent evaluation and roster construction. He's upset players care about their "brand"? It's 2015, deal with it.


Fair enough...let's just hope he gets these next 5 months right. I never liked the guy either...I do think he's patient enough to get the Knicks right...but time will tell..

RE: RE: 2nd rounders are easily attainable, aren't they?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2015 4:16 pm : link
In comment 12339360 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12339348 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


That's how Early was drafted.



I was just told in an above post that people no longer give them away. How can it go both ways?


I don't know how to answer your question, but they got two second round picks as part of what they got from trading Chandler and Felton. And haven't 2nd round picks been straight up bought with cash?
Winslow  
djm : 6/23/2015 4:17 pm : link
met with Phil. Watched vid of himself...discussed triangle shit a little bit but nothing crazy. Basic stuff...loves playing at MSG...etc.etc..

Video  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:20 pm : link
of Smith
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Knicks  
kash94 : 6/23/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12339404 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
worked out Joshua Smith. He's not projected to be drafted but MASSIVE body, upside. Why not?


I'm a current Georgetown student so this is pretty interesting to me. Just to give you an overview.

Strenghts:
-Massive massive body and frame
-Very solid post game with good footwork and touch. One of the more efficient players in college in this regard.
-Pretty decent passer for a guy of his size. Won't make flashy passes but is definitely above average. Georgetown big men are often designed plays which require them to pass.
-Was a 5 star recruit coming out of HS. At this point doesn't make a difference really but worth throwing that in there.
-Played against good competition in the big east.
-His production numbers per minute were excellent. Almost 20 ppg on over 60% shooting.

Weaknesses:
-Conditioning a major issue. Lost like 20 lbs before his senior year but Georgetown had to pull him out of games because he couldn't run up and down the court a lot
-Poor defender
-Poor shotblocker
-Not a great rebounder. Had a few games where he'd literally have 2-3 rebounders which is not great considering his size and position
-No outside shot at all

In terms of player comparisons I would think of Eddy Curry in the sense that he's a very talented player offensively but has little else to offer.

For a team with 0 bigs he'd be a good camp invite. I can see why Phil may be interested in him as he's a big who can post up and pass but he's not more then a bench player; certainly won't go drafted.
Also  
kash94 : 6/23/2015 4:27 pm : link
he had significant foul trouble in a few games.
And finally  
kash94 : 6/23/2015 4:28 pm : link
he's had some issues with academics and off the court stuff as he was suspended for a season. He apparently skipped one of his finals which caused him to fail the class and get the suspension lol.

Not sure how big a deal this is but worth mentioning I think.
RE: Apparently  
BeerFridge : 6/23/2015 4:37 pm : link
In comment 12339393 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
quite a few teams have inquired into Royce White, one would think in a perfect would he'd be absolutely PERFECT in the triangle.


Heh, what contract would you give that guy?
Second rounders easy to obtain?  
manh george : 6/23/2015 4:37 pm : link
Absolutely, if you mean second rounders past the first 10 or so, or as part of a trade where you give up something of value in return.

Teams LOVE the top of the second round, because you get players that may end up as good as the back of the first round, but with no guaranteed cash involved. People have been
talking for years about the Knicks buying second round picks, but we virtually never have been able to get one at the top of the second for cash, only as part of a trade. And it wasn't a matter of being cheap--we paid pretty well for low second round picks, several times.
RE: Don't want Cousins  
AgentZero : 6/23/2015 4:43 pm : link
In comment 12339324 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
I'm tired of not having picks and guys with Cousins attitude. I think he's great and all, and I may be in the minority but I think he is a bit overrated. He was putting up numbers on a bad team, as indicated by his low FG%. For around 40% of his field goal attempts being jump shots he is not very good at hitting them.


For the record I agree with you but wasn't this what everyone was going crazy over Lebron in the finals?
RE: RE: Apparently  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:46 pm : link
In comment 12339451 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
In comment 12339393 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


quite a few teams have inquired into Royce White, one would think in a perfect would he'd be absolutely PERFECT in the triangle.



Heh, what contract would you give that guy?


Non-guarantee deal with a promise of a chance to get minutes if he keeps his head on straight.
RE: RE: Knicks  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:47 pm : link
In comment 12339428 kash94 said:
Quote:
In comment 12339404 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


worked out Joshua Smith. He's not projected to be drafted but MASSIVE body, upside. Why not?



I'm a current Georgetown student so this is pretty interesting to me. Just to give you an overview.

Strenghts:
-Massive massive body and frame
-Very solid post game with good footwork and touch. One of the more efficient players in college in this regard.
-Pretty decent passer for a guy of his size. Won't make flashy passes but is definitely above average. Georgetown big men are often designed plays which require them to pass.
-Was a 5 star recruit coming out of HS. At this point doesn't make a difference really but worth throwing that in there.
-Played against good competition in the big east.
-His production numbers per minute were excellent. Almost 20 ppg on over 60% shooting.

Weaknesses:
-Conditioning a major issue. Lost like 20 lbs before his senior year but Georgetown had to pull him out of games because he couldn't run up and down the court a lot
-Poor defender
-Poor shotblocker
-Not a great rebounder. Had a few games where he'd literally have 2-3 rebounders which is not great considering his size and position
-No outside shot at all

In terms of player comparisons I would think of Eddy Curry in the sense that he's a very talented player offensively but has little else to offer.

For a team with 0 bigs he'd be a good camp invite. I can see why Phil may be interested in him as he's a big who can post up and pass but he's not more then a bench player; certainly won't go drafted.


Sounds worthy of a summer league invite based on size/some offensive ablity alone. I've read his post game is above average,
Wasn't whites big issue is  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 4:49 pm : link
He wouldn't fly? If he hasn't overcome that then signing him is pointless.
RE: Wasn't whites big issue is  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:50 pm : link
In comment 12339472 Italianju said:
Quote:
He wouldn't fly? If he hasn't overcome that then signing him is pointless.


Well considering a "few" teams are talking to him one has to assume there is some remedy no?
,,  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:53 pm : link
Royce White is on the verge of making an NBA comeback.

Drafted 16th overall in 2012 by the Houston Rockets, the 24-year-old has played in just three regular-season tilts to date. He's spent the last three years bouncing around, going from Houston to the Philadelphia 76ers to the Sacramento Kings.

As USA Today's Sam Amick noted back in February 2014, he "struggled to adjust to the NBA lifestyle," in large part because he suffers from an anxiety disorder. But White isn't thinking about that now. He's ready to return.

"I don't even believe in that, in case it doesn't work out," he said of his return, per KSTP.com. "It's gonna work out, it's gonna work out."

It's unlikely that White lands a prominent role anywhere. But teams will always make room for a versatile forward with first-round upside. The best fits will be squads that can capitalize on his skill set and surround him with the right leadership.

Rumors will play a factor in determining White's best potential destinations. Past ties to coaches and play styles will count heavily as well.

Potential playing time matters, but it's not everything. White needs to be on a good team that can be patient and bring him along slowly as he tries to make up for three seasons' worth of lost time.
Bulls  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 4:53 pm : link
considered the favorites due to Hoiberg

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Bulls, Pelicans emerging as suitors for Royce White's NBA comeback in July, sources tell RealGM. Former 16th pick is deciding among several.
I'd take a shot on him if he has got over  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 4:55 pm : link
That issue. Although it doesn't sound like we are a favorite.
Hoiberg makes sense.  
BeerFridge : 6/23/2015 4:56 pm : link
.
AgentZero  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 4:59 pm : link
I'm not sure I understand the Lebron comparison. Are you talking about his jump shot?

I was simply saying Cousins is too in love with the jump shot for never being able to hit it consistently when he has good face up, post, and passing skills. Doesn't have any business shooting it that much, unlike Lebron, who had no teammates.

Cousins just doesn't translate to winning too many games on his own. I think if they were to get a solid defensive presence like WCS he could thrive. I just do not see Cousins as the type of player to carry a team to the playoffs let alone win. He could be very successful in a great team dynamic, but the jury is still out on what that dynamic specifically is. I'm sure George Karl can figure something out if he chooses to keep him, but I'm not sure he wants to. But what I am saying is I do not want the Knicks to be the laboratory to figure out how Cousins can fit into a winning culture, because as history indicates, those experiments tend to fail in NY.
White certainly has some skills  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 5:01 pm : link
He was tearing up the D-league for what it is worth. If he is over his anxiety issues I think he'll end up as a starter somewhere in a few years.
Pfft. Boogie is so much fun.  
BeerFridge : 6/23/2015 5:02 pm : link
You hope and pray that Mudiay or Porzingis would be as good as Boogie Cousins - there's a good chance they won't and a slim chance they'd be better. And he's so damn entertaining. Melo would be by far the best player he's every played with and in the East he would be a true force.

I'd totally trade the #4 for Boogie in a freakin' heart beat.
RE: Pfft. Boogie is so much fun.  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 5:05 pm : link
In comment 12339494 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
You hope and pray that Mudiay or Porzingis would be as good as Boogie Cousins - there's a good chance they won't and a slim chance they'd be better. And he's so damn entertaining. Melo would be by far the best player he's every played with and in the East he would be a true force.

I'd totally trade the #4 for Boogie in a freakin' heart beat.


If it was just this years 1st rounder I would do it. But if they aren't accepting the Lakers #2 and Randle that clearly wouldn't cut it. I wouldn't trade the 2017 first, Galloway, THJR, Early, etc, etc. in order to get him.
RE: RE: Pfft. Boogie is so much fun.  
giants#1 : 6/23/2015 5:07 pm : link
In comment 12339496 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 12339494 BeerFridge said:


Quote:


You hope and pray that Mudiay or Porzingis would be as good as Boogie Cousins - there's a good chance they won't and a slim chance they'd be better. And he's so damn entertaining. Melo would be by far the best player he's every played with and in the East he would be a true force.

I'd totally trade the #4 for Boogie in a freakin' heart beat.



If it was just this years 1st rounder I would do it. But if they aren't accepting the Lakers #2 and Randle that clearly wouldn't cut it. I wouldn't trade the 2017 first, Galloway, THJR, Early, etc, etc. in order to get him.


I would. Galloway, THJR, Early are spare parts and with Cousins and Melo (in the East), it's unlikely the 2017 first is worth much.
Good for the Kings management backing George Karl down into his seat  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2015 5:32 pm : link
The guy just got that job off the ESPN couch, he's something like 80-140 lifetime in the playoffs, and is a walking first round exit, and all he does is alienate all stars and want to dictate the roster everywhere he goes.
RE: For  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2015 5:49 pm : link
In comment 12339240 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
some reason I think the Knicks are going to end up with the guy (I believe) they want the most of the "realistic" names... I think Russell is a Knick at 4.


From your lips to Phil's basketball god's ears.
Yea but Karl will turn a 9 seed team into  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 5:55 pm : link
A 5 seed team!! And get booted in he first round.
Phil complaining about LeBron traveling  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/23/2015 5:55 pm : link
is hilarious since that's the one thing that I think you can really rip MJ for getting away with.
RE: RE: RE: Knicks  
kash94 : 6/23/2015 6:12 pm : link
In comment 12339468 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12339428 kash94 said:


Quote:


In comment 12339404 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


worked out Joshua Smith. He's not projected to be drafted but MASSIVE body, upside. Why not?



I'm a current Georgetown student so this is pretty interesting to me. Just to give you an overview.

Strenghts:
-Massive massive body and frame
-Very solid post game with good footwork and touch. One of the more efficient players in college in this regard.
-Pretty decent passer for a guy of his size. Won't make flashy passes but is definitely above average. Georgetown big men are often designed plays which require them to pass.
-Was a 5 star recruit coming out of HS. At this point doesn't make a difference really but worth throwing that in there.
-Played against good competition in the big east.
-His production numbers per minute were excellent. Almost 20 ppg on over 60% shooting.

Weaknesses:
-Conditioning a major issue. Lost like 20 lbs before his senior year but Georgetown had to pull him out of games because he couldn't run up and down the court a lot
-Poor defender
-Poor shotblocker
-Not a great rebounder. Had a few games where he'd literally have 2-3 rebounders which is not great considering his size and position
-No outside shot at all

In terms of player comparisons I would think of Eddy Curry in the sense that he's a very talented player offensively but has little else to offer.

For a team with 0 bigs he'd be a good camp invite. I can see why Phil may be interested in him as he's a big who can post up and pass but he's not more then a bench player; certainly won't go drafted.



Sounds worthy of a summer league invite based on size/some offensive ablity alone. I've read his post game is above average,


Post game is tremendous. He's not just strong - he has actual skills. It's the rest of the game that is lacking.
If there is any organization  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 6:12 pm : link
that needs a coach to tear into the ownership its the Kings. Its hard to back anything that team does.

The owner is a straight wacko. One of the worst moves he made was not one of his terrible basketball decisions, but to sign Sim Bhullar as the first Indian player to make a statement. The dude doesn't deserve to play in the D-League despite being 7'6". It was a pathetic and embarrassing move.
that's what I originally thought  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/23/2015 6:20 pm : link
about Bhullar but the guy's NBDL performance was legitimately great.

Vivek is definitely a very annoying owner so far though. I feel for the Kings fans after dealing with the idiot Maloofs forever.
well  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 6:34 pm : link
he's out of the league already if that says anything about him. If Hasheem Thabeet couldn't make it in the league there's no way an overweight 350 pound, unathletic guy who can't run down a court more than once at a time has any business playing in the NBA.
RE: well  
Audible : 6/23/2015 6:59 pm : link
In comment 12339562 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
he's out of the league already if that says anything about him. If Hasheem Thabeet couldn't make it in the league there's no way an overweight 350 pound, unathletic guy who can't run down a court more than once at a time has any business playing in the NBA.


I mean... the court is the same length in the NBDL in the NBA, and Bhullar's team played at an insanely fast pace (they scored 130 points per game). I don't doubt that his conditioning wasn't NBA-caliber, but if his conditioning was really -that- bad he wouldn't be able to survive in the D-League playing at the Bighorns' pace.

I don't think Bhullar failed because he's out of shape, I think he failed because he's not a good enough basketball player. The D-League isn't a great league - the salaries aren't competitive with what fringe guys can get playing overseas - but D-League backcourts are on the whole much better and deeper than D-League frontcourts.
Alan Hahn  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 7:14 pm : link
says it should be Russell or bust for Knicks and if Russell is not there it is a failure...

He said it is a red flag since no one is talking about Mudiay...

Says he would take Winslow at 4 because he is the safest pick after Russell..

Says if Knicks do not get Russell it is like them missing on Curry
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