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NFT: Knicks Chat: 3 trades the Knicks should consider?

DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 8:13 am
"Here are three trades that might make sense for both teams:

1. Sixers send three 2016 first-round picks (Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat and Oklahoma City Thunder) to Knicks for No. 4 overall.

For the Knicks, this deal knocks them out of the first-round this year, but it does set the up to be major players next year. The Knicks, like the Sixers do now, would own potentially as many as four first-round picks in the 2016 NBA Draft, and would also have a ton of cap space to spend on free agents. Not getting a player this year would sting, but in the long run, this deal would set the Knicks up to re-build quickly.

2. Knicks send Jose Calderon (3 years, $7 million per) and No. 4 overall to Sixers for Henry Sims (1 year, $900,000), and two future-first round draft picks

If the Knicks want to spend big on free agents this year, getting bad money off the books is key. Signing Calderon has proven to be a mistake, and his contract is the worst on the Knicks payroll (unless you want to count Carmelo Anthony's deal). The Sixers would essentially be buying the pick, as well as giving up two future assets.

3. Knicks send Andre Bargnani (1 year, $11 million) and No. 4 overall to Sixers for Henry Sims (1 year, $900,000) and two future first-round picks

This deal is similar to the previous one, only it opens up more cap space this year for the Knicks. There are a number of marque free agents expected to be available, including Cleveland Cavalier forward Kevin Love. The Knicks would free up $11 million in cap space and collect two future first-round picks. The Sixers would get to pick at No. 3 and No. 4, and would likely buyout Bargnani."
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Now they are saying  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 7:17 pm : link
the Knicks should take stein at 4
really hopeing for russel to fall to 4  
ADeP7 : 6/23/2015 7:23 pm : link
If not im happy with mudiay

Unfortunately knowing the knicks they dont draft any of the top 4 and this whole season was worth absolutely nothing
I just realized that Russell  
Jon in NYC : 6/23/2015 7:26 pm : link
actually reminds me of Joe Johnson quite a bit.
All this Russell chatter is irritating.  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2015 7:28 pm : link
I like Hahn, but what can the Knicks do to prevent LA or Philly from taking Russell? Should they just pack up and go home once he's picked ahead of them? Russell's been my guy all year, but it'll take a miracle at this point.
Looks like a lot of people have come around on Russell.  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2015 7:29 pm : link
I was one of the only people who wanted him a few weeks ago. Mudiay was all the rage.
RE: Looks like a lot of people have come around on Russell.  
Jon in NYC : 6/23/2015 7:34 pm : link
In comment 12339581 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I was one of the only people who wanted him a few weeks ago. Mudiay was all the rage.


My concern with Russell is and was his inability to defend at a high level. I also just think he's kind of a dick.
Russell and Joe Johnson are pretty different players.  
Ash_3 : 6/23/2015 7:37 pm : link
I think Russell is going to be a better long range shooter and passer.
Berman was just on sportscenter  
Stu11 : 6/23/2015 7:37 pm : link
said the party line that seems to be coming together today- they are desperate for Russel, if not him they are looking to trade out of the pick. Doesn't think they will be able to trade it though. When asked for his gut feeling he said they keep the pick and that they like Winslow's intangibles, Mudiay's athleticism, and then there is always WCS. Said one of them will be a Knick.
RE: Russell and Joe Johnson are pretty different players.  
Jon in NYC : 6/23/2015 7:40 pm : link
In comment 12339583 Ash_3 said:
Quote:
I think Russell is going to be a better long range shooter and passer.


Johnson was both a phenomenal shooter and passer. He's a career .371 from 3 and averages over 4 assists despite playing off the ball.
Russell just looks to me like he has a "feel" for the game.  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2015 7:41 pm : link
I don't know if Mudiay really has that because I obviously haven't seen much of him. I like the athleticism Mudiay has and he'll probably be better defensively but I think Russell is going to be the goods in the offensive end and I think he'll be passable defensively.
RE: I just realized that Russell  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 7:43 pm : link
In comment 12339579 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
actually reminds me of Joe Johnson quite a bit.


That's one of the better ones I've heard. I think Russell has better PG skills and is a bit more shifter and creative whereas Johnson bullies smaller guys on the block. But I like that one more than Harden.

It's puzzling that Russell and Winslow have been both been drawing James Harden comparisons and neither are similar to each other in any way.
The biggest plus for Russell to me  
Deej : 6/23/2015 7:51 pm : link
are those bonkers passes. If he really pans out he could be the sort of player that guys want to team up with. Though on the downside he could be a huge dick.

Im still not very comfortable with him because of defensive concerns. I think I still prefer Mudiay.
I still  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2015 7:52 pm : link
Prefer Mudiay but I'm getting a strong feeling it's going Towns, Okafor, Zinger or Mudiay and Russell. I won't be unhappy. I have him 5th on my "board" so I can't be mad at 4
Here is what i am skeptical about  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 7:52 pm : link
the Knicks have had no leaks about who they are interested in...so now all of sudden everyone knows the Knicks love russell? seems fishy to me...

Also really Berman? so the Knicks could trade out but you dont think they will, so they may draft winslow Mudiay or stein...umm really how is that news?
.  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 7:53 pm : link
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m2 minutes ago
ESPN sources say Nets continue to explore trade possibilities with their Team USA center Mason Plumlee in advance of Thursday's NBA Draft
everything im seeing is 76ers taking russell and are locked in on him  
ADeP7 : 6/23/2015 8:00 pm : link
But i am now seeing porzingis linked to them any truth to that or is it just smoke
Joe Johnson is a good  
Ash_3 : 6/23/2015 8:06 pm : link
shooter. He is not a phenomenal shooter. That's gross exaggeration.
RE: .  
hitdog42 : 6/23/2015 8:10 pm : link
In comment 12339598 Anakim said:
Quote:
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m2 minutes ago
ESPN sources say Nets continue to explore trade possibilities with their Team USA center Mason Plumlee in advance of Thursday's NBA Draft


pls do he stinks
LOL  
MookGiants : 6/23/2015 8:14 pm : link
at Team USA center.

Easy to make the team when you played in college for the coach of the team and he wants to help his recruiting.
RE: everything im seeing is 76ers taking russell and are locked in on him  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 8:15 pm : link
In comment 12339601 ADeP7 said:
Quote:
But i am now seeing porzingis linked to them any truth to that or is it just smoke


This week everything is smoke...you think teams are really leaking who they really want? the only team that can do that is Minnesota...

You notice which player is surprisingly quiet and very little hype?
If the Knicks are really that high on Russell then they need to get on  
Lopes1984 : 6/23/2015 8:18 pm : link
the phone with Philly and see what it would take to move up to 3. I have a feeling that a lot of the talks linking Russell and Philly over the past few days have been meant to entice that exact move. It sucks to have to give up a guy or a pick to do it, but if Jackson feels that strongly about Russell compared to the other options that would be available then you just have to pull the trigger on a move up.
RE: RE: everything im seeing is 76ers taking russell and are locked in on him  
ADeP7 : 6/23/2015 8:21 pm : link
In comment 12339613 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12339601 ADeP7 said:


Quote:


But i am now seeing porzingis linked to them any truth to that or is it just smoke



This week everything is smoke...you think teams are really leaking who they really want? the only team that can do that is Minnesota...

You notice which player is surprisingly quiet and very little hype?


I figure everything is smoke this week but it makes me wonder where mudiay falls
I hope he doesn't get past the Knicks but I'm really wondering is Russell the top choice for the Knicks
Is the 76ers top choice actually mudiay and they are just not letting leak
I still trust my source  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 8:24 pm : link
when it comes to Mudiay but it gets hard when you see all these reports about the Knicks trading down, or watning Porzingis or Winslow...

RE: I still trust my source  
ADeP7 : 6/23/2015 8:25 pm : link
In comment 12339624 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
when it comes to Mudiay but it gets hard when you see all these reports about the Knicks trading down, or watning Porzingis or Winslow...


I've seen a couple of posts about it but I never really saw what your info was, can you post your knowledge of the situation
16...  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2015 8:26 pm : link
I probably missed it but what was your scoop re: Mudiay? The Knicks plan on taking him?
RE: 16...  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 8:31 pm : link
In comment 12339626 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I probably missed it but what was your scoop re: Mudiay? The Knicks plan on taking him?


basicaly if the top 3 goes as planned Knicks take Mudiay...

I am not sure if someone falls how the Knicks would proceed...

They have been in contact with Mudiay since his workout and it is the reason he has not worked out for teams outside the top 4...that part makes me think he has a promise from the Knicks BUT my source would not go into detail...
Thanks for sharing..  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2015 8:52 pm : link
If the top 3 go KAT, Okafor and Russell (which unfortunately, I expect).. I do hope they take Mudiay.

My fears about Porzi are probably unwarranted but whatever. And I just don't feel like WCS is worth the 4th pick. If we're taking him it would have to be in a situation where we move down a few spots somehow.
I'd prefer Mudiay a bit more than  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 9:34 pm : link
Russell but I'd be more excited about Russell if that makes any sense. Like I'd probably go and buy Russell's jersey (granted from alibaba for like $10) just cuz of his game in college. He's a personality that you can get behind as a fan.

I don't think he's done anything to warrant being considered a "dick". He was known for his swagger but that doesn't make him a "dick". He's pretty down to earth. On an interview on the Ryen Russilo show someone brought up a scouts comment about being obliterated on times on defense and being apathetic on that end and Russell responded by saying that he's probably right. He said that he didn't care about playing defense until the end of the season where he finally understood that defense is heavy effort based. He understands where he is and is honest about it. Whether he makes strides is another story but he's not an asshole or anything.

And Joe Johnson was a pretty damn good shooter. For the amount of terrible shots he attempted he averaged about 38% 3 point shooting while attempting more than 5 a game.

.  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 9:42 pm : link
Frank Isola ‏@FisolaNYDN 26m26 minutes ago
If the first three picks go Towns, Okafor and Russell, the feeling is that the Knicks will trade down. Trey Lyles? Frank Kaminsky?
Forget Isola!!!!  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2015 9:48 pm : link
We got 16 telling us what's really going to happen! Hello Mr. Minding!!!! Cause top 3 will be chalk!
Mundiay  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2015 9:49 pm : link
Damn IPhone!!!!
I really wish I had a better idea  
Italianju : 6/23/2015 9:58 pm : link
Of what we could get in a trade down. Hard to decide how annoyed I'd be without knowing the return.
trade down would annoy me  
MookGiants : 6/23/2015 10:00 pm : link
sit through that garbage season and dont even come away with a guy who has much potential, awesome
I'd only trade down  
Aspano! : 6/23/2015 10:08 pm : link
with Orlando, since they're sitting at 5 and highly doubtful that they will take Mudiay. Even if it's a small chip like a 2nd rounder or something. The Knicks should be flooding the press with Porzingis to the Knicks rumors as much as possible right now.
..  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2015 10:09 pm : link
Michael Scotto ‏@MikeAScotto 44s45 seconds ago
Sources: Knicks are doubtful to trade the 4th pick outside the top 10 unless a good young player & an additional pick is offered. #NBADraft
Only way trading down makes any sense  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2015 10:10 pm : link
is if you know Gasol or Aldridge is coming here in FA and you want to fill out the supporting cast around he and Melo. And we know that ain't happening. Still can't believe we have the fourth fucking pick.
RE: ..  
Jon in NYC : 6/23/2015 10:11 pm : link
In comment 12339707 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Michael Scotto ‏@MikeAScotto 44s45 seconds ago
Sources: Knicks are doubtful to trade the 4th pick outside the top 10 unless a good young player & an additional pick is offered. #NBADraft


Bledsoe...

I'd also take Lawson and WCS for no. 4.
How's Dragic  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 10:16 pm : link
for a Russell comp? Took a few years for dragic to get acclimated to the league relying on shiftiness and ball skills because of his lack of athleticism. Think Russell would be better right out of the gate too
And a 6'5" Kyle Lowry for Mudiay?  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2015 10:19 pm : link
lowry had s**t for a jump shot coming into the league, I think Mudiay has a better shot than a rookie lowry as well as better passing skills. And plus he's pretty ripped and Lowry has some chub to him.
Well...alrighty then  
Anakim : 6/23/2015 11:28 pm : link
HOT 97 ‏@HOT97 57m57 minutes ago
NBA: Demarcus Cousins Is Looking To Get Traded To The Knicks
Everyone not named Towns has serious bust potential imo  
Torrag : 6/23/2015 11:40 pm : link
Okafor is a defensive problem and by some accounts not a dedicated player. The second part of that scares me more than the first.

Russell projects poorly at the defensive end of the floor. There are also concerns he'll have trouble penetrating off the dribble to break down defenses. Is he better suited to play SG? Would that downgrade his value?

Mudiay? Guards need to be able to shoot the basketball. If opponents don't respect his perimeter game he'll have trouble capitalizing on his strengths.

Porzingis is going to take time and organizational patience to develop. Since when has that been the Knicks modus operandi? His body has a ways to go and no guarantees he's going to get there.

Winslow isn't nearly the positional fit that a big man or point guard would be for the roster. That's the big knock on him for me as a Knicks fan. He's the second safest prospect after Towns imo. There are few holes in his game. I like his athletic ability, transition game, makeup, basketball IQ and physique. He can score in a variety of ways as well as rebound and defend his position.

WCS hasn't proven he has a perimeter game in a competitive setting. Likewise for a big man he doesn't project as an elite defensive rebounder to date. Finally only the doctors know the risk attached to his surgically repaired foot.

The Knicks must pick their poison and hope they hit the lottery in real since the ping pong balls didn't exactly come up smelling of roses did they?

If the Knicks are willing to bide their time drafting Porzingis could have huge returns. I don't think they will. Barring that I'd target Winslow...maybe not at four but I'd find a way to get him.

Torrag  
manh george : 6/24/2015 12:09 am : link
So you know with a fair amount of confidence that Mudiay, a 19-year-old with great ball handling and leaping skills and size and athleticism won't be able to learn how to shoot?

And you know this how?
Seems to me that every team linked to trading for the fourth  
Lurts : 6/24/2015 12:31 am : link
pick is looking at Zinger. Which leads me to believe that any pick other than Zinger is a lesser commodity that will better fit in the Melo window. Which is the short-sighted thinking that has kept the Knicks in a rut all these years.

There is no need for Phil to prove he is the smartest guy in the room. He's got the rings.

Just get the best talent.

A highly competitive and co-ordinated, non ball-dependent 7'1" gym rat with a natural stroke, experience at the highest non NBA level, and a 7'6" wingspan is both tough to trump and seems a pretty good complement to Melo.

In fact, with a little familiarity, I think he's a fairly perfect complement, with his ability to hit the three or cut to the hole without clogging the lane.
manh george  
Torrag : 6/24/2015 1:03 am : link
The fact that he isn't a good shooter now is enough to characterize his 'bust' factor as significant imo. I don't need more than that to make my case.
Is it not possible  
giantsfan44ab : 6/24/2015 1:14 am : link
that the teams looking to trade up for Porz may view him as a better fit than anything else?

I agree with you to an extent, but what are the teams that have been legitimatey linked to him? The Magic? They are set at the 1-3 and the 5. Porz skill set is the perfect fit there because they need a guy that can potentially stretch the floor and maybe one day provide some rim protection. He slots in fine at the 4 between Vucevic and Harris/Gordon.

And I think we are at a point where PGs are becoming the QBs of the NBA. It's a requirement not a necessity. Mudiay has a legitimate chance to be the best PG in the East not named Irving or Wall given his skills and athleticism. His size is tremendous and is much much more fluid athlete than MCW, which provides a lot of versatility in the front court.

KP is my favorite player in the draft and I think he's going to do some nice things, but there's a huge risk with him. He certainly has an extremely high ceiling, but there's a chance that some of the things expected of him never fully come around. He's projected so high because of his potential on defense, but that's all it is right now: potential. He's had some major miscues on defense, including getting pushed around by guards in the post.

I ultimately think KP will be the ideal complimentary player in a situation with other great talents, like Oladipo, Harris and Vucevic. However, I think it's a stretch to believe he is going to be a superstar, ball dominant player that create offense for himself on a consistent basis. On the contrary, I think Mudiay can become a staple franchise PG for over a decade that you can build a franchise around and can rely on him to set the tone on both ends of the court.
RE: manh george  
giantsfan44ab : 6/24/2015 1:18 am : link
In comment 12339795 Torrag said:
Quote:
The fact that he isn't a good shooter now is enough to characterize his 'bust' factor as significant imo. I don't need more than that to make my case.


Based off what? Form is the key when judging shooting more than anything else. He had good form, but he was inconsistent in terms of showing it on catch and shoot situation and with timing the release of the shot. Those things can be fixed, especially with NBA shooting coaches. He's not fucking Michael carter Williams or Rajon Rondo. He has touch, it's not like he was air balling shots left and right.
'Those things can be fixed...'  
Torrag : 6/24/2015 1:25 am : link
Says who? You? There are many examples of players who simply aren't efficient from the perimeter and never will be. You want to project from where he is as a shooter to how good he can be? There is a name for that. It's called guessing. As of now he isn't a good shooter. That classifies a key part of any guards game as a weakness and a risk. Which translates into potential bust. Those are the facts.
Facts, hmm.  
manh george : 6/24/2015 2:18 am : link
You didn't describe the downside of a bust. You described the downside of being a bigger, stronger, taller, more athletic, better rebounding, better defensive Rajon Rondo. And, of course, with a stroke that isn't nearly as bad at 19 as Rondo's was. And with, from every report I've seen, really impressive maturity and leadership skills for a kid of 19 playing overseas.

Yeah, some downside, but also the kind of upside you look for in a big athletic pg. I would probably prefer Russell because he can already shoot, but Mudiay appears to be on par or better in every other department.

A little risk of a bust, perhaps, but with the kind of upside Jackson probably needs to gamble on in the fourth slot, unless he can get a deal with someone who really wants Porzingas, or unless Russell or Okafor fall to 4.
RE: 'Those things can be fixed...'  
giantsfan44ab : 6/24/2015 7:32 am : link
In comment 12339798 Torrag said:
Quote:
Says who? You? There are many examples of players who simply aren't efficient from the perimeter and never will be. You want to project from where he is as a shooter to how good he can be? There is a name for that. It's called guessing. As of now he isn't a good shooter. That classifies a key part of any guards game as a weakness and a risk. Which translates into potential bust. Those are the facts.


Ok now I realize you are spewing arbitrary conjecture more than anything else. I'm assuming you haven't watched anything on his form being broken down. You say Winslow is the safest pick and probably think he's a lights out shooter because he shot 40% from 3 on 1 attempt per game. Winslow has much higher chance of turning into tony Allen than Mudiay has of turning into whatever "bust" you have in mind. Mudiay has a much more established offensive game than winslow.

And John Wall isn't a "bust" is he? It's been 4-5 years and he still hasn't become a league average shooter. So if that never comes around for Mudiay, there are plenty of things to look forward too still. Now I'm not saying he's got John Walls athleticism, but mudiay's athleticism, strength and finishing ability is closer to Wall's than it is to Rondo's, MCWs and Rubio's. And not to mention his jump shot is WAY better than any of theirs at this point in his career.
I was under the impression that lots of players  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/24/2015 8:25 am : link
come into the league with a less than ideal shooting skill and need to improve it over time. Somewhat like WRs entering the NFL and route-running.
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