I thought a second was market value all along. But when Lehner fetched a first, the market seemed overheated, and the Rangers should have been able to extract a first, perhaps by adding another piece.
But I think they did alright with that deal. The cap issues are well documented and Hags is the type of guy you've gotta make the tough decisions on when it comes to approaching free agency. A very solid player but pretty well established as a 3rd liner and not quite enough offense to be a top 6 guy. Would love to keep everybody but with Stepan needing a big deal and JT needing to be locked up as an RFA, something had to give. It's too bad but understandable.
Etem sounds like he may have a bit more offensive upside and is younger and cheaper.
Overplayed his hand with Talbot? How do you know he did not end up getting more than he had been offered? Of wait - you read a blog and that said teams were lining up with #1s and more. Love BBIers who are smarter than the guys actually on the phone fielding offers. How about credit for getting anything for a goalie who played college hockey in Alabama.
Stop acting like there was no basis for it. Darren Dreger reported it. Along with Bob McKenzie, Dreger is the most reliable NHL reporter out there. Also, let's not forget what Robin Lehner fetched
to trade him. So the question is would you rather have Klein and Glass or Hagelin for 4.5 million per? Still hoping we trade Glass this offseason. We also need to extend Stepan, Etem, Miller, Fast, Kreider, Hayes and Yandle. And now, we need a backup Goalie. Look for Viktor Fasth or Ray Emery.
He's lost it. Past time to be put out to pasture. And not in the president's office where he can fuck up Jeff Gorton's chance to put his stamp on the roster. He doesn't even want to do it anymore. He knows the team is close and wants one last hurrah heading into the sunset. As a result he's making short sighted moves to 'win now'.
But I think they did alright with that deal. The cap issues are well documented and Hags is the type of guy you've gotta make the tough decisions on when it comes to approaching free agency. A very solid player but pretty well established as a 3rd liner and not quite enough offense to be a top 6 guy. Would love to keep everybody but with Stepan needing a big deal and JT needing to be locked up as an RFA, something had to give. It's too bad but understandable.
Etem sounds like he may have a bit more offensive upside and is younger and cheaper.
Hags sucks. Glad to see him go, and if he commanded 4.25 mil and we paid it, we would have been fools. Anything we get back is a steal for him, he has tons of speed but hands of stone.
DCOrange was the clear frontrunner for clueless hockey post of the day
Let's trade Sather. The S-O-B is ruining our team. Etem is a stiff -- a 1st round pick who has five goals at age 23. There's nothing there. Hagelin is more than the sum of his point totals. He will be missed. But we can always rely on our first round picks, right? Oh, wait...
@AdamHerman_BSB: On the Talbot saga, Gorton also admitted that "at times it looked like it would be a better deal, and it didn't manufacture that way."
With his speed, the fact that he only accounts for 18 assists and less than half a point a game, is criminal. Only in the mind of a guy who overrates his own players is he worth 4.25 million. I agree, though, if Hags has hands he would be a 7-8 million guy a year because he would score 80-90 points a year. If the queen had balls she would be king. He doesn't, and just is not productive enough to keep at any salary close to 4.25, might as well get something back.
Because making two mistakes is better than making one. Explain to me how he is worth 4.25 million, under what metric. If I am wrong, I am wrong. But I don't see it with my eyes or with his numbers. He had a nice first year here in 2012, since then he has been mediocre, at best. Not at all sad to see him leave .
guy puts up 1st line production even strength. Is Claude Giroux good? Because Hags has more 5v5 points over 3 years than Giroux, I believe in fewer games. Consistent 17 goal/year guy (that pace each of the last 3 years when you adjust the lockout games to 82).
Very, very good defensively and a key PKer.
And his speed adds a dimension that doesnt show up in his personal stats. Specifically, Hags routinely reversed the ice -- he come one the ice with the puck in our defensive zone, and leaves with the puck in the other team's zone.
Not one person has made one legitimate argument that Hags is worth 4 million and that is what this is all about. To say that it is a different discussion is absurd, it is the discussion.
George Richards @GeorgeRichards 11m11 minutes ago
When asked what the #FlaPanthers offered for Cam Talbot, Dale Tallon spit "a lot. A whole lot." Sounds like he thought Panthers had it.
Not one person has made one legitimate argument that Hags is worth 4 million and that is what this is all about. To say that it is a different discussion is absurd, it is the discussion.
You said he "sucks" and completely failed to validate that opinion, so...
RE: Did Slats really want Talbot out West that badly?
George Richards @GeorgeRichards 11m11 minutes ago
When asked what the #FlaPanthers offered for Cam Talbot, Dale Tallon spit "a lot. A whole lot." Sounds like he thought Panthers had it.
I have a hard time thinking the Rangers didn't fuck this up.
They got more than what I thought fair value was... But I can't help but be disappointed.
I am sure there was a lot of smoke out there but it just seemed like there were too many rumors that had us potentially netting more than we did for us to have truly maximized our return.
guy puts up 1st line production even strength. Is Claude Giroux good? Because Hags has more 5v5 points over 3 years than Giroux, I believe in fewer games. Consistent 17 goal/year guy (that pace each of the last 3 years when you adjust the lockout games to 82).
Very, very good defensively and a key PKer.
And his speed adds a dimension that doesnt show up in his personal stats. Specifically, Hags routinely reversed the ice -- he come one the ice with the puck in our defensive zone, and leaves with the puck in the other team's zone.
Besides last year, where he was very close to a point a game scorer, Giroix has always been above a point a game. Who cares where he gets his goals, what the PP doesn't count? Giroux is good because Giroix produces. Hagelin is mediocre, because he doesn't produce. This is not rocket science. And I agree hags is a good penalty killer, but am I going to pay him for that?
Not one person has made one legitimate argument that Hags is worth 4 million and that is what this is all about. To say that it is a different discussion is absurd, it is the discussion.
You said he "sucks" and completely failed to validate that opinion, so...
That is fine if you disagree. but, again, I said he sucks in the context of a 4.25 million number, and I think you just need to look at his stat line to begin and end that argument. To make your guys point, somebody said he had more 5 on 5 production than Giroux, do I think Giroux is good? That is an argument, Giroux gets his points, where do you care where he gets it from. That is why he gets paid. Hagelin doesn't get his points. If he was anything more than mediocre with his speed, he would get more assists than 18.
My answer to him is maybe why do we complain every year when we don't score on the PP in the playoffs when we invest resources in players that he says "stinks" on the PP
Or should I say he wants to invest resources in a player
My answer to him is maybe why do we complain every year when we don't score on the PP in the playoffs when we invest resources in players that he says "stinks" on the PP
Yandle and Boyle were brought in for the PP. The PP hasn't failed due to a lack of investment.
I can at least understand an argument that says within the context of our cap situation, he's not worth that allocation but in a vacuum, outside of a salary cap crunch and relative only to his peers, I think he is absolutely worth 4+ per. So he sucks on the power play and doesn't get chances there. Big deal. He kills penalties, he's very good defensively, he forces defensemen to think twice about joining rushes and can change a game at any given moment with his wheels by creating an odd man.
He's a very, very good player overall. So he doesn't have great hands and doesn't score a ton of goals. Big deal
Your're investing in the right area, but not making wise decisions. To invest outside that area with 6% of your cap in one player, seems to me to be a bad investment if you are looking to improve the PP.
Is it smarter to invest this much on your 3rd pair?
You cant be serious in equating 5v5 scoring and PP scoring. PP is a special high change opportunity that only some players get (Giroux gets 4 mpg). Getting PP time makes it a lot easier to score (I feel like an idiot for even having to explain this).
Also Giroux would get 9-10 million as a UFA. And Benoit Pouliot got 4 million AAV for 5 years off a 15 goal season in NY (and an otherwise VERY disappointing career).
I think you just dont understand how much UFAs cost. Im reasonably sure Hags would get $5 million as a UFA.
Etem sounds like he may have a bit more offensive upside and is younger and cheaper.
He posted this one a little earlier:
@NYP_Brooksie: Trade driven by cap considerations...Etem is impending RFA without arb rights, qualifier 850,500...Hagelin would have been at least 3.5
I assume that second tweet meant for the year or two, while the first was for a long term deal.
Stop acting like there was no basis for it. Darren Dreger reported it. Along with Bob McKenzie, Dreger is the most reliable NHL reporter out there. Also, let's not forget what Robin Lehner fetched
I know I know, no team would ever do that.
Etem sounds like he may have a bit more offensive upside and is younger and cheaper.
Hags sucks. Glad to see him go, and if he commanded 4.25 mil and we paid it, we would have been fools. Anything we get back is a steal for him, he has tons of speed but hands of stone.
Rangers on verge of completing trade for goaltender.
Rangers on verge of completing trade for goaltender.
I know exactly what I am watching and i know exactly what he is worth, the bupkis we got back for him, was fine.
He doesn't suck compared to Tanner Glass, but if we paid him 4+ he would definitely suck. It is all in context.
But at least he's unambiguous about it. That should count for something.
Very, very good defensively and a key PKer.
And his speed adds a dimension that doesnt show up in his personal stats. Specifically, Hags routinely reversed the ice -- he come one the ice with the puck in our defensive zone, and leaves with the puck in the other team's zone.
George Richards @GeorgeRichards 11m11 minutes ago
When asked what the #FlaPanthers offered for Cam Talbot, Dale Tallon spit "a lot. A whole lot." Sounds like he thought Panthers had it.
You said he "sucks" and completely failed to validate that opinion, so...
George Richards @GeorgeRichards 11m11 minutes ago
When asked what the #FlaPanthers offered for Cam Talbot, Dale Tallon spit "a lot. A whole lot." Sounds like he thought Panthers had it.
I have a hard time thinking the Rangers didn't fuck this up.
They got more than what I thought fair value was... But I can't help but be disappointed.
Very, very good defensively and a key PKer.
And his speed adds a dimension that doesnt show up in his personal stats. Specifically, Hags routinely reversed the ice -- he come one the ice with the puck in our defensive zone, and leaves with the puck in the other team's zone.
Besides last year, where he was very close to a point a game scorer, Giroix has always been above a point a game. Who cares where he gets his goals, what the PP doesn't count? Giroux is good because Giroix produces. Hagelin is mediocre, because he doesn't produce. This is not rocket science. And I agree hags is a good penalty killer, but am I going to pay him for that?
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Not one person has made one legitimate argument that Hags is worth 4 million and that is what this is all about. To say that it is a different discussion is absurd, it is the discussion.
You said he "sucks" and completely failed to validate that opinion, so...
That is fine if you disagree. but, again, I said he sucks in the context of a 4.25 million number, and I think you just need to look at his stat line to begin and end that argument. To make your guys point, somebody said he had more 5 on 5 production than Giroux, do I think Giroux is good? That is an argument, Giroux gets his points, where do you care where he gets it from. That is why he gets paid. Hagelin doesn't get his points. If he was anything more than mediocre with his speed, he would get more assists than 18.
Yandle and Boyle were brought in for the PP. The PP hasn't failed due to a lack of investment.
He's a very, very good player overall. So he doesn't have great hands and doesn't score a ton of goals. Big deal
b) we decided to spend precious cap space on Glass and extending Girardi
Also Giroux would get 9-10 million as a UFA. And Benoit Pouliot got 4 million AAV for 5 years off a 15 goal season in NY (and an otherwise VERY disappointing career).
I think you just dont understand how much UFAs cost. Im reasonably sure Hags would get $5 million as a UFA.