Heading to the game today to see Matz. He went to my high school (Ward Melville), he's a few years younger than me. Really pulling for him and super pumped to see him pitch.
Michael Baron@michaelgbaron
RT @justmets: UPDATE: In addition to the #Cubs , the #Dodgers have expressed interest in acquiring Jon Niese: http://t.co/FbkXwQC00x #Mets
I never understood SA with the Byrd situation. If the Mets were looking at a stop-gap then why not just resign Byrd. Cuddyer is not a better player and cost the Mets a pick.
Total miscalculation and maybe more to please Wright than anything
B/c of an error or wild pitch more than a sac fly or, God forbid, an actual hit. True story.
I was thinking passed ball or balk. Cuddyer/Duda need to be platooned, and in addition to Murphy they need to add another bat. With the Dodgers rumored to like Niese, I wonder if they'd give up Scott Van Slyke. That type of guy would be a nice pickup.
I never understood SA with the Byrd situation. If the Mets were looking at a stop-gap then why not just resign Byrd. Cuddyer is not a better player and cost the Mets a pick.
Probably a "favor" to the guy who played about one week this season and probably won't play again (Wright)
Byrd would have made way more sense as a 1 year bridge to Conforto.
Cespedes, Alex Gordon, Upton, Heyward, Fowler, Spann, Desmond.
Upton will break the bank, but I don't know that any of the other guys will.
Depends on the years and numbers. All good players that could help. But a couple of those guys will be MASSIVELY overpaid. Hopefully the quantity available will help out the trade market though.
We all though Peralta got overpaid a couple years ago when he got more than 3/36. Turns out that would have been highway robbery in hindsight and he probably got severely underpaid with 4/56.
Conforto, Nimmo, Cecchini, Rosario, Smith, Beccerra, Morris, Meisner, Fulmer, Molina (even if he's hurt he's still a few years away). Hopefully a few guys from this past draft (and last year's) continue the trend.
Conforto, Nimmo, Cecchini, Rosario, Smith, Beccerra, Morris, Meisner, Fulmer, Molina (even if he's hurt he's still a few years away). Hopefully a few guys from this past draft (and last year's) continue the trend.
Respectfully, they're supposed to do this. Meanwhile, none of those bats are close and the Mets need them now. Maybe Conforto is closer yet we're looking 2017/18 if this hierarchy waits.
this FO definitely knows what they're doing in the minors
Conforto, Nimmo, Cecchini, Rosario, Smith, Beccerra, Morris, Meisner, Fulmer, Molina (even if he's hurt he's still a few years away). Hopefully a few guys from this past draft (and last year's) continue the trend.
Respectfully, they're supposed to do this. Meanwhile, none of those bats are close and the Mets need them now. Maybe Conforto is closer yet we're looking 2017/18 if this hierarchy waits.
Respectfully, 29 other teams are supposed to do it also and they aren't. And for 20+ years this team didn't do it as well as they are apparently doing it now.
I completely agree that none of these guys will make an impact at the MLB level any time soon (maybe Conforto). That's a totally separate discussion though.
Nice to see Granderson come through with guys on base
hasn't gotten many opportunities to do so during this hot streak. Would be nice to blow this one open here to really take some good mojo in the Cubs series.
Take a closer look. I know we're feeling good today but let's think the Mets have a laundry list of prospects while other have a bare system. There are a lot of young kids in systems out there. Other teams ARE doing this.
Take a closer look. I know we're feeling good today but let's think the Mets have a laundry list of prospects while other have a bare system. There are a lot of young kids in systems out there. Other teams ARE doing this.
They've been among the top 5 systems in baseball going on 3 years in a row, so they are doing it better than most. That's with graduating heralded prospects like Harvey, Wheeler, TdA and unheralded guys like JdG, Familia, Lagares, Mejia. Hard to find any metric of any org getting more out of their farm system right now. Entire team is homegrown. The external moves are the issue.
is by adding a veteran 4th OFer and an IFer who give them more professional AB's than the Campbell/Mayberry/Ceccilliani/Kirk and even Tejada. That's not a high bar to clear and they are going to save about $5M on Wright's contract they weren't expecting to.
RE: RE: So the Mets are the only team with propects now?
Take a closer look. I know we're feeling good today but let's think the Mets have a laundry list of prospects while other have a bare system. There are a lot of young kids in systems out there. Other teams ARE doing this.
They've been among the top 5 systems in baseball going on 3 years in a row, so they are doing it better than most. That's with graduating heralded prospects like Harvey, Wheeler, TdA and unheralded guys like JdG, Familia, Lagares, Mejia. Hard to find any metric of any org getting more out of their farm system right now. Entire team is homegrown. The external moves are the issue.
The team can't hit, play sound defense, demonstrate any speed, etc. They can pitch and perhaps have graduated more pitchers than anybody else yet they're flirting with dead last as far as position players with nothing on deck.
So great to watch him come out and have a debut like this. I know we may have to trade some young talent to strengthen the hitting eventually but I really, really pray it's not him. I want him to be a Met for the next 10 years.
When he gets hot like this, he's ridiculous. Unfortunately, equally intense cold streaks usually follow to offset them.
Yup - another good reason to add another LF option and put Cuddyer into a platoon. Will be plenty of opportunities for him to find some PT, if he can earn it. Seems like he's been needing more and more days off recently anyway.
This offense is 1000 times better with a healthy DW, TdA, and Murphy. One big bat added to those three would go a long way.
Problem is...DW is probably done, Murphy is probably gone after this year, and TdA can't be relied on to be healthy. Everyone else is either bad, outrageously streaky, or "potential." Their offense is in shambles.
When he gets hot like this, he's ridiculous. Unfortunately, equally intense cold streaks usually follow to offset them.
Yup - another good reason to add another LF option and put Cuddyer into a platoon. Will be plenty of opportunities for him to find some PT, if he can earn it. Seems like he's been needing more and more days off recently anyway.
Agreed. Cuddyer is killing us.
The big problem is that Duda is pitiful right now and I'm not sure why. Not sure if it's an injury or what because he was quite good in April/May but has just been so, so bad since.
But if we could get Duda back to what he was the 2nd half of last year and early this year, get Murphy back in the lineup and maybe get Conforto up here at some point.. maybe the offense will be more passable. It would really help if we could swing a trade (not a blockbuster, just a mid-scale trade that gets us depth and a decent player)
Frustrating to have a staff this good and just have a lineup so deficient.
RE: Aaaaaand, there it is...incapable of having an adult conversation
yet a Zobrist (hopefully for little) and promoting Conforto would be nice.
They need more regular day bat and a bench. I think the pitchers should be bench bat considerations b/c they're showing more promise than the current bench.
arc, in regard to Duda, I don't think it's an injury
He is just flat out swinging at bad pitches. The balls on the outside of the plate and the pitches down and it. He wasn't doing that in the beginning of the year. Now he can't lay off them. I don't think that's injury related. Just a bad approach and not seeing the pitches.
But we'd have to be sure he can play SS long-term. I personally think he can, but... I also thought Wilmer could.
If Duda is fine, hopefully he can make the right adjustments. It's weird that he just suddenly hit a snag and has been in a mega black hole since but we desperately need him to hit like he was before if we're going to have any chance here.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a room with all these
Do they know they are a part of a potentially historic rotation or are they just fed up with the lack of offense? Maybe both? Interesting stuff though.
Both can play a good LF and then shift around the other positions if you need to get Cuddyer more AB's or rest others.
Sandy said he's got 1 bullet, he's willing to overpay and we know he's had conversations with Oakland. Maybe it's yet another banana in the tailpipe, but short of something unexpected coming along I suspect he deals some combination of Reynolds/Montero/Robles/Fulmer/Mejia for 1 of them. Worst case scenario he has to get a Parra type of guy.
Perfect bench pieces, not saviors. And certainly not worth overpaying for. Supplementary pieces, not the big piece we desperately want and need. Just my humble opinion.
But we'd have to be sure he can play SS long-term. I personally think he can, but... I also thought Wilmer could.
If Duda is fine, hopefully he can make the right adjustments. It's weird that he just suddenly hit a snag and has been in a mega black hole since but we desperately need him to hit like he was before if we're going to have any chance here.
Last year I thought it was a foregone conclusion Bogaerts would be moved off SS. this year he's been better, so I guess there's a shot.
Wheeler's injury hurts for a lot of reasons, but among them is the fact I had him pegged as the guy to trade. I like him, but I viewed his ceiling as lower than Thor, Matz, or Harvey, wasn't sure about deGrom. Now I view Wheeler as probably less than deGrom too.
but he still has top of the rotation upside, so it's not some huge gap.
it's a conundrum, I don't want to trade any of Harvey, Thor, deGrom or Matz, but how do you get a big bat otherwise.
on the one hand we're seeing a potential historic rotation forming. On the other hand the offense is dismal and the organization continues to remind you that they're still the Mets.
If the Mets traded for Zobrist (for little I hope)
I am completely sold on him as a hitter. I think he's 100% legit. But the guy just cannot stay on the field. Even if they're freak injuries and seem totally random and not recurring they just keep happening. It's a bummer.
and Plaw hasn't proven he's MLB caliber yet, but what about TdA in the outfield? He's a decent enough athlete, and it might keep him healthier. I think he's got a good enough bat to have value as a RFer.
and Plaw hasn't proven he's MLB caliber yet, but what about TdA in the outfield? He's a decent enough athlete, and it might keep him healthier. I think he's got a good enough bat to have value as a RFer.
lol - the thought of him at 3rd crossed my mind. How to keep an injury prone player healthy (he's already going to be 27).
Perfect bench pieces, not saviors. And certainly not worth overpaying for. Supplementary pieces, not the big piece we desperately want and need. Just my humble opinion.
I don't disagree - this team needs a Gomez/Upton/Tulo type of presence playing every day. I just don't think it's realistically happening right now. Honestly don't think it will happen unless Wright retires.
He's having a good, but not great year, he has a lingering thumb injury that seems more nuisance than injury, he's probably achieved some level of persona non grata in Milwaukee, and he's got some very public baggage.
A change of scenery might be best for both parties there, and the Brewers are bad again.
And the Brewers apparently would like to move him and not eat any of his salary.
On the Mets he can play OF or 3B.
Not sure what it takes to get that done. If it can somehow be without Thor, Matz, Harvey or DeGrom I do it in a heartbeat.
I don't see the Mets ownership adding that cash though. He's owed 100M or so. But he's 36/37 when the contract ends, not one that goes into his later 30's/40 year old season like some of them.
isn't mainly that they don't have a huge bat in the middle of the lineup. Its that this year they've had way too many ABs from really bad hitters, or at least from hitters who are hitting very badly. A lot of it is injury related, but its also having an absolutely terrible bench.
The Mets have gotten 617 ABs - or about 25 percent of the non-pitcher ABs - from these 8 players: Ceciliani, Mayberry, Herrera, Plawecki, Campbell, Recker, Muno, Monell, and Nieuwenhuis.
Combined they have a .181 batting average. I can't be bothered to run the other numbers but needless to say that's absolutely dreadful when a quarter of your position player ABs have resulted in a .181 BA.
So while getting a slugger would be great, strengthening the bench would be a much more cost effective way to improve the offense. Getting guys healthy will of course help too. And bringing up Conforto which bounces Cuddyer to the bench immediately makes the bench stronger.
This could be a historic rotation IF Wheeler comes back
he's been way down since the whole steroid thing. The hasn't exactly been "Ryan Braun" for going on three years now and that scares me at his age.
Upton is an ideal target but not at a 189 to 200 million pricetag. I know that's what he'll command but I just don't think he's worth that much. Plus he strikes out a lot. But he's young.
Phi - above I posted some guys I'd be interested in next year who are FA. I'd be ok with Braun only if it's a Matt Kemp type trade (Tulo is in same category). Injuries scare me with both (Braun has a nerve problem with his thumb that's being treated but is likely a long term concern).
If Wright retires, which I doubt unless he has another setback, I think they'd have to go after Upton. If he doesn't retire I'd be ok with them going after some combo of a solid regular SS (Desmond may be a steal after this shitty season) and a mid-tier OF (like Spann, Zobrist or Fowler). The need for 2 bats is accounting for the likelihood Murphy is gone as well, with Herrera or Flores playing 2B.
isn't mainly that they don't have a huge bat in the middle of the lineup. Its that this year they've had way too many ABs from really bad hitters, or at least from hitters who are hitting very badly. A lot of it is injury related, but its also having an absolutely terrible bench.
The Mets have gotten 617 ABs - or about 25 percent of the non-pitcher ABs - from these 8 players: Ceciliani, Mayberry, Herrera, Plawecki, Campbell, Recker, Muno, Monell, and Nieuwenhuis.
Combined they have a .181 batting average. I can't be bothered to run the other numbers but needless to say that's absolutely dreadful when a quarter of your position player ABs have resulted in a .181 BA.
So while getting a slugger would be great, strengthening the bench would be a much more cost effective way to improve the offense. Getting guys healthy will of course help too. And bringing up Conforto which bounces Cuddyer to the bench immediately makes the bench stronger.
Excellent post. Strengthening the bench was a huge missed opportunity in the offseason.
post, other than I disagree with it, is that more than 33% of those at-bats are from 2 guys. Herrera and Plawecki - who both project to be better than the guys they'd acquire to strengthen the "bench" and one is a backup catcher.
Monell, Kirk N, Recker, Muno, these guys all have less than 50 at-bats, they're not why the Mets offense is anemic.
It's not those guys or the bench, it's the regulars. Duda, Cuddyer, Granderson (until lately), Flores, Lagares (5 out of 8 have been pretty consistently playing) - have all been below average. If they were playing to their expectations the injury fill-ins wouldn't be dooming the team.
RE: I do like the idea of Ryan Braun, but he'll be 32 next season and
he's been way down since the whole steroid thing. The hasn't exactly been "Ryan Braun" for going on three years now and that scares me at his age.
Upton is an ideal target but not at a 189 to 200 million pricetag. I know that's what he'll command but I just don't think he's worth that much. Plus he strikes out a lot. But he's young.
What we needed was a healthy David Wright.
Agree, healthy dw makes a big difference.
Zach wheeler has much upside as any of these guys. Odds are not all of them are going to be aces but a #3 production from your 5th spot is awfully good.
The Wilpons need to then sell at a huge profit to a deep pocketed group like Dodgers did and sign each one of these pitchers to a long term deal including Familia.
post, other than I disagree with it, is that more than 33% of those at-bats are from 2 guys. Herrera and Plawecki - who both project to be better than the guys they'd acquire to strengthen the "bench" and one is a backup catcher.
Monell, Kirk N, Recker, Muno, these guys all have less than 50 at-bats, they're not why the Mets offense is anemic.
It's not those guys or the bench, it's the regulars. Duda, Cuddyer, Granderson (until lately), Flores, Lagares (5 out of 8 have been pretty consistently playing) - have all been below average. If they were playing to their expectations the injury fill-ins wouldn't be dooming the team.
Plaw and Dilson have done better then the rest so taking them out makes the bench look even worse. Exclude them and you've got 402 or 17% of the teams positional player ABs resulting in a BA of .164. Again these are not pitcher ABs.
So the bench has absolutely been a huge problem. It would be much cheaper to upgrade the bench and 17% of the teams ABs from a miserable .164 to a respectable .250 than it would be get a similar upgrade for Lagares, Cuddyer and/or Flores.
I'm using BA for OPS because its much easier to calculate.
get back to me in 2018 with that nonsense. The 2 fielding plays that Matz made should not get lost. The bunt by Hamilton and more impressive was the 1-6-3 DP when he was in a jam, got the cimebacker and wsited till he found his SS
Under contract through 2018. FA in 2019. I agree that it's silly to think about and I won't shed any tears if we don't sign him to an 8 year contract at age 30.
This Harvey to the Yankees bullshit is something that has 0 substance
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
RE: Isn't Harvey under contract for like 3-4 more years?
Yes, his earliest FA year is 2019 and I think given his age it would be insane for him to turn down 100M+ when he's already had TJS, Boras or not. Turning down 1M because you didn't get 2M is one thing, turning down 100M+ guaranteed would moderately insane. Stanton and Trout didn't do it. I know Boras has been all over the place with Harper's contract status, but again all those guys are hitters who don't have to think about the ever-growing epidemic of elbows blowing out on guys who throw 95+. 2019 isn't "right around the corner" either.
is upgrading the bench bats doesn't make the regular starters any better.
that's the problem.
that 17% won't make enough of a difference to outweigh the awfulness of the 83% of at-bats of the regulars (or whatever it is).
I'm not saying don't try and upgrade those at-bats. I'm just saying I don't think they will be cost-effective, since I don't see a major impact.
Need to get the starters on track.
I hear what you're saying, but upgrading a starter is like 10-12% of the ABs so that's less opportunity for an impact than those 17% ABs which have been so God awful. As bad as our starters have been, they haven't been as bad as most of the bench guys. I just think the bench is low hanging fruit right now. Basically what we're looking for is upgrades over Ciciliani/Nieuwenhuis and Campbell. How hard can that be?
In August I'd like to see a regular lineup like this:
it is the reality of TJ. You have good days and set backs. You work through the setbacks and have less of them. He should be his old self next spring. I expect the same thing for Wheeler
the amazing thing is that deGrom is almost Harvey like now
I know Phi hates the idea, but I'd literally rather roll the dice on Rollins and let him hit 2nd before putting Lagares or Tejada there for the next 3+ months. Even in a terrible season with a BABIP of .229 he has 7 HRs, positive defensive ratings, and 6 SBs. Tejada has 8 HR's in his entire CAREER.
As mentally tough as Matt is you have to be thinking about the arm and the torque. Am I throwing too many off speed pitches. A million things. He's only human. I'll be surprised if Harvey doesn't win a Cy Young during the balance of his Mets contract.
Can you imagine these guys all healthy and in form
is on a roll or is just going to be like this forever, Harvey has been up and down, Syndergaard if you notice has much better results at home as his babip on the road is a crazy .426.
Reds coming into this game in the last 4 games scored 21 runs on 54 hits but scored just 4 runs on 22 hits in this series with 11 of those hits in the suspended game. Meaning they had just 11 hits on the other two games. If you can pitch like that, you really dont need a lot of hitting seriously.
RE: Can you imagine these guys all healthy and in form
and slow rollers more than Thor has endured since he's come up. As good as Thor has been, he's also been extremely unlucky. And if he continues to improve and locate/select pitches better, he'll be as advertised also. All good stuff.
RE: This Harvey to the Yankees bullshit is something that has 0 substance
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
big bucks to give you some bang. Cuddyer is killing them by not being average. Lucas Duda has regressed and is back to swinging at breaking balls in the dirt and his swing added length. Flores is a tease that flahes at times but becomes invisible at the plate. Lagares gets himself out more than any other guy in the lineup. Granderson is as advertised streaky. TDA can't stay healthy and Murphy is a professional hitter, Ahealthy DW was hitting .333 and driving the ball for 2 weeks and now this. Tejada get exposed at the plate with too much playing time. Dilson Herrera is an interesting possibility that hasn't flashed much. Ceciliani is a nice 4th IF that can steal a base. Mayberry reminds me of Preston Wilson Mookies son, he looks the part but that is about it. This is a mish mosh with no stabilizing bat to anchor the lineup.
RE: I've never seen a pitcher give up more dinks, dunks, broken bat hits
and slow rollers more than Thor has endured since he's come up. As good as Thor has been, he's also been extremely unlucky. And if he continues to improve and locate/select pitches better, he'll be as advertised also. All good stuff.
All Thor needs to do is have command of that curveball. When he does, he's is lights out.
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Can we stop the chicken little "Harvey is going to YANKEEZ!!!" BS?
It's baseless speculation from paranoid fans. How about enjoying him while he's here? He might only be here another few years but regardless.. he's not going anywhere for a while. There's literally no reason to worry about this now.
Chances are, his best work will be done here in Flushing as a Met. He's not going anywhere any time soon. Let it go.
Right now I pitch for the Mets. That becomes interpreted as I was a Yankee fan growing up as a kid in Connecticut and I'm stuck with the Mets who drafted me. The Mets are just a stepping stone to my ultimate dream of pitching for the Yankees. I went to Derek Jeters last game, I mean can I be more clear what my intentions are?
then he should go, but I can't forsee him deciding NOT to take the money to buy out his arbitration years here now, and take a chance on hunting for some sucker team to throw $200m on a 30 year old SP.
but someone who was at the game said the place was electric throughout and it was palpable. You can tell me all the other stadiums rock during special games but I say that there is a no more passionate fan base going back to 1962 than the NY Mets. Shea Stadium literally swayed at times and sitting in the upper deck I thought it was going to collapse. Met fans are unique. Flame away
RE: RE: RE: RE: This Harvey to the Yankees bullshit is something that has 0 substance
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Lol, how else am I supposed to take that line if not literally? You specifically said that people were taking "that" routine when absolutely nobody was. You can call people out for things they didn't say. You were obviously exaggerating/fabricating stuff to support your point.
And, yes, Harvey going to the Yankees is baseless and silly. But Harvey being all about $$ is absolutely not baseless. Not that it's much of a stretch anyway since most pro athletes are all about money. Do a little research on Harvey and you'll understand.
Right now I pitch for the Mets. That becomes interpreted as I was a Yankee fan growing up as a kid in Connecticut and I'm stuck with the Mets who drafted me. The Mets are just a stepping stone to my ultimate dream of pitching for the Yankees. I went to Derek Jeters last game, I mean can I be more clear what my intentions are?
Come on HH, it's more than that and you know it. Not it was as simple as that then this wouldn't even be a conversation. Stop exaggerating.
Of course he's going to take the most money when he gets a chance.
They all do. There's no research necessary here. He's an athlete who will do the same thing every one of his peers does.
That day is a ways away, though. Why worry about it now?
That's the thing, I'm not worrying about it at all. I was just responding to a comment spike made last night. I even followed that up by saying it was silly to worry about it now.
But people have a way of overly exaggerating what other people say and I just wanted to clarify why I made the statement. It's just my opinion anyway...no big deal.
I was really just responding to the general idea a lot of Met fans have. Wasn't really directed toward or anyone specific. I have friends who just won't shut up about how Harvey just can't wait to be a Yankee. It's so silly.
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Lol, how else am I supposed to take that line if not literally? You specifically said that people were taking "that" routine when absolutely nobody was. You can call people out for things they didn't say. You were obviously exaggerating/fabricating stuff to support your point.
And, yes, Harvey going to the Yankees is baseless and silly. But Harvey being all about $$ is absolutely not baseless. Not that it's much of a stretch anyway since most pro athletes are all about money. Do a little research on Harvey and you'll understand.
You took a tongue-in-cheek line (one that was making light of how we're long accustomed to letdowns as Mets fans) and interpreted it as me saying "You guys want to get rid of Harvey." Since you clearly took that line the wrong way, let me clarify: I did not say you guys said "Let's get rid of Harvey". I was alluding to you guys accepting his departure at the end of his current contract as a foregone conclusion. You misinterpreted an analogy made in jest and are making a fuss about it. Take your own advice and stop calling people out for things they didn't say.
Shitty of a season Addison Russell is having. He's young but the worst fielding percentage of any 2ndbaseman in baseball?? And the bat has been very underwhelming.
No chance I would trade Thor or Matz for him. Zero.
That's silly. He's been up for like 2 months. He was a consensus top 5 prospect coming into this year. Very few hitters come into baseball at age 21 and light the world on fire from day one.
That's silly. He's been up for like 2 months. He was a consensus top 5 prospect coming into this year. Very few hitters come into baseball at age 21 and light the world on fire from day one.
He has been a disgrace defensively. All those "tools" should have at least allowed him to be decent playing 2nd base. Of course he's young and his bat can get better but there is no chance I would trade a bonafied young ace like Thor or Matz for some kid that has tools that may or may not translate some day.
Russell is going to get a lot better. You're severely underselling him and I don't think you have to worry about Thor/Matz getting dealt for him because the Cubs would turn us down anyway.
Russell is going to get a lot better. You're severely underselling him and I don't think you have to worry about Thor/Matz getting dealt for him because the Cubs would turn us down anyway.
Likewise, I think Sandy would laugh them off the phone in reverse.
Granderson's recent hot streak really elevated him into "really good" territory. His OPS is over .800 now.. he's hitting about .260 which he's only done once since 2008, getting on base.
He's already about a 2 WAR player this year in 77 games. He was a 1.2 WAR player through ALL of last season.
He's got to avoid one of those black hole ice cold streaks, though.. because if he follows this up with one of those, everything will sink back into "average-below average" territory.
Trio of young middle infielders havent exactly panned out so far.
Exactly. And I'm not saying Russell won't be good. Just irks me that people act like this is the "chosen one" when he's been kicking the ball all over the infield all season. I'm sure he's going to be good player someday but Matz and Syndergaard are already good.
Granderson's recent hot streak really elevated him into "really good" territory. His OPS is over .800 now.. he's hitting about .260 which he's only done once since 2008, getting on base.
He's already about a 2 WAR player this year in 77 games. He was a 1.2 WAR player through ALL of last season.
He's got to avoid one of those black hole ice cold streaks, though.. because if he follows this up with one of those, everything will sink back into "average-below average" territory.
Yup. And even when he was cold he was still walking and getting on base. I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for the season he's having. And his hot streaks can last a while. This might not even be the peak yet.
do. Sometimes a 21 year old just becomes a 22 year old. Lasting Milledge, Fernando Martinez, Gregory Polanco to name a few of the top prospects in the game that fizzled. Pro Sports is littered with the carcasses of can't miss
prospects. You name the sport I'll give you a can't miss that did, then another, then another
Yes, there are guys who miss and never pan out but making much of anything out of Russell's first 2 months in the bigs is a waste of time. People thought Harper was underwhelming or not living up to the hype at one point, too.
It certainly didn't come off as tounge in cheek or in jest...but I guess that's the trouble with humor over the Internet, lol.
As for Addison Russell, I questioned his pedestrian stats a while back. I guess it's just a product of our environment but we are quick to question our own young players while giving the benefit of the doubt to other teams young players...but I guess that's just because we see them all the time.
I wouldn't feel good about trading Thor or Matz for the "potential" that Russell "might" become. If I'm trading those types of pitchers, I wasn't proven taken in return. Not potential. We already have potential.
I'm not writing off or building up anyone after 2 months
which takes pretty much all prospects off the table. Puig or Frazier? Sure, if it's this generation's Piazza trade that's something to think about. But I'd be very hesitant to use our "1 bullet", as Sandy said, to put the weight of the world on a 21/22 year old.
RE: I wouldn't trade Matz or Thor for anything other than a sure thing
that is crazy, however; to deny that consensus top 5 picks in any sport can bust is just as crazy.
You are right, it happens all the time. It would be a big big risk to trade our starting pitcher depth for Russell. Especially since Russell's minor league stats aren't that dissimilar from our own "potential" player Flores.
Listening to Francesa talk about trade possibilities
I think Gomez is the best possible pie in the sky option. He's an impending FA who isn't having his best season. Not sure it will be possible to get him without giving up Thor/Matz/Conforto, but if it is he'd be a great fit. Can play all 3 OF positions, hit 1st or 2nd, and would bring a ton of energy to this club.
Herrera, Nimmo, Montero or Mejia?
He also brought up Hanley, but his injury stuff is scary and he's probably too much $. Does have 15 HRs though.
Yes Gomez has had a bad year, but if he was having a normal year (20 hrs / 30 steals / gold glove) you'd have to give up Matz or Thor for him, no question. You still might.
Rotate Cuddyer in a little bit with those 3 guys, and honestly with the way Lagares has played, it's 50-50 whether or note Gomez ends up in a corner or CF. Put a 20 HR/30 steal guy with his kind of speed at the top of the lineup and it changes this lineup in a big way.
for Carlos Gomez who has one year left before he's a free agent. I'm not sure I'd do it even if I had a chance to negotiate an extension with him first.
It just doesn't make any sense.
if I'm trading one of them it's for a young cost-controlled OFer with all-star potenital. Not a season and a half rental who will be 31 when the extension kicks in.
Thor/Matz 22/23 year old stud top of the rotation starter under team control for 5+ years for 1 year of Carlos Gomez.
The entire thought was proposed as can you get him without giving up one of them since he's close to FA and having a bad year? Does some combo of Nimmo/Herrera/Montero/Robles/etc. get it done?
I think that's the most realistic "big get" that could happen for this team, though still obviously a long shot.
Total nonsense trade proposal strictly for discussion
this isn't directed at you, but these ridiculous WFAN trades only serve to say their guy is better than our guy. I've never seen one of these that doesn't imply I wish the Mets had that guy. Harvey for Harper? Harvey for Trout? Get my drift?
RE: Total nonsense trade proposal strictly for discussion
If the cubs approached me and not the other way around, i would ask for more plus Bryant, Harvey is a bit more established than Bryant (rookie). Call me crazy but I would try to get more for Harvey.
this isn't directed at you, but these ridiculous WFAN trades only serve to say their guy is better than our guy. I've never seen one of these that doesn't imply I wish the Mets had that guy. Harvey for Harper? Harvey for Trout? Get my drift?
Funny you should say that. It's just something that was thrown out there on ESPN radio from Ryan Ruocco.
"Metro2007 wrote:
I just can't knock taking a lefty who throws low 90's, good frame, plus slider and local... plus "Lets go Matz" will be awesome! lol"
how Frazier has gone absolutely nuts ever since his name came up in possible trades. He's a stud.
3rd in fwar and top 10 in bwar, metrics love him. Kipnis is tied with Frazier in fwar btw.
Takes longer to buy into the late bloomers (Ortiz, Bautista etc) but Frazier is the goods. He's MVP caliber good this season (no exaggeration) and has been all-star good for a few years now.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 47s47 seconds ago
As for Rockets, like we reported last week, Houston WANTS to get in the game for both Aldridge and Kevin Love. Needs to shed salary, tho
I wouldn't mind taking Clint Capela as part of a deal.
I think best case Van Slyke, but honestly I'd even consider taking back Rollins in a worst case. Yes he's be terrible, but all you need is a good 3 months of him and he still has as many HRs this year as Tejada does in his entire career.
RE: Dan - you see any realistic way to get Gomez w/o Thor/Matz?
if anything at all to what we already have. Van Slyke or Rollins add zip. Gomez can help with his defense. He only had a few good years with his bat and he's not a great base stealing threat any more. I'd try to package Niese with another player or prospect to get someone good. We already have enough mediocre position players.
"Metro2007 wrote:
I just can't knock taking a lefty who throws low 90's, good frame, plus slider and local... plus "Lets go Matz" will be awesome! lol"
:)
Wow Dan, how did you find THAT??? Hat tip to you by the way.
is already 34 years old. he can't play SS (if that was even a consideration), and if you plan to put him in the OF he's not a corner OFer from a production standpoint.
what would you do with Zobrist? 2b?
he'd be Murphy 2.0 with possibly better D.
I see no point in acquiring Zobrist if Murphy is healthy unless you tell me what you plan to do with him.
On the downside of his career. He's at the age where his defense is already taking a hit. His career numbers aren't really that impressive and I think he's had his big two 20 home run seasons. I'd take him over Lagares but would hate him in a corner.
I'd play Zobrist mostly in the LF (Mets LFs currently have a -WAR)
and his production is 100% strong enough to upgrade that spot significantly. His best defensive position the past few years has been 2B so theoretically if Flores struggles he could slide in there as well. Zobrist currently has a 125wRC+, which is just above his own career average (119) and 15+ points higher than Murphy's numbers from this year and last (110 & 108 respectively). In a year where he got off to a very slow start his numbers would still easily make him the 3rd best player on this team behind only Duda and Granderson. Of course adding Zobrist isn't a long term piece, but for this season he'd give you depth at a number of positions that have been problematic and a very solid bat hitting 2nd or 4th/5th (i'd imagine in a pinch he could play SS or 3B as he's done previously).
Several years ago,meh was baseballs most underrated player. But he is now a super sub guy. Not a star the Mets need. If you are paying for his current and future role, perfect fit. If the cost is for "Ben Zobrist", thanks but thanks.
If he's part of a deal for Baez there almost certainly has to be something significant going back to them with him. I mean, there were rumors the Brewers turned down Aramis Ramirez for Niese straight up just a couple weeks ago.
I think a 3rd/4th OFer from the Dodgers or Rollins is about as much as can possibly be expected for him. Though supposedly the Blue Jays are looking for pitching now as well, and they have always loved Niese.
which means his defense was likely worse by their internal metrics than what we think. They were the last ones who wanted to admit they were wrong. Barring an injury I just don't see them going back again.
If that is indeed the case, Tejada & Rollins rest of season, who are you taking?
All all seriousness, I'm just not keen on adding an
ancient player that is having an awful year offensively. I honestly think that Tejada may actually be the better offensive player at this point. And that says a lot. Rollins has never been a great offensive player so it's not like he could potentially add that much if he has a hot streak. Tejada could have a hot streak also. Any player can. Just not a fan of adding Rollins. But you know this, lol.
You are not going to bait me into saying I'll stick with Tejada
He was worth 4 WAR last year with 17 HRs and he's on the same power pace this year, just a brutal BABIP. Despite that his OPS is still only like 30 or 40 points off of Tejada, who has basically played his absolute best. Rollins knows this division, plays solid d, can steal a few bases, and in a big spot I would 10000000% rather see him up there than Tejada.
Ha - and my last post was in response to your first response
They are the figment of sports writers or worse bloggers imaginations that take on a life of their own. When real trades come down it usually is I didn't see that coming, nobody was mentioning those names. It's all bullshit to fill space
RE: Ha - and my last post was in response to your first response
your last response makes you #teamtejada chairman.
Haha, you got me. That made me laugh. Didn't know his BAPIP was so bad...maybe I'll soften on my Rollins stance. He can come to the Mets but only if he publicly states that "we are the team to beat."
When a player in his upper thirties goes into a sharp
After they finish the suspended game from yesterday, and weather permitting. They had 3 innings to play.
When is Vic Black returning?
When is Vic Black returning?
He's not
Nice two plays by shoemaker.
28 rbis not hrs
Quote:
is not getting it done as the cleanup hitter
28 rbis not hrs
Haha, I was trying to figure out that first post
Michael Baron@michaelgbaron
RT @justmets: UPDATE: In addition to the #Cubs , the #Dodgers have expressed interest in acquiring Jon Niese: http://t.co/FbkXwQC00x #Mets
Work the phones Sandy
Only the mets can get Jason Bay...twice.
welcome to the team.
Gotta get a new starting RF by the deadline.
I never understood SA with the Byrd situation. If the Mets were looking at a stop-gap then why not just resign Byrd. Cuddyer is not a better player and cost the Mets a pick.
Silly to burn your long man Verrett
R U f'ing kidding me?
I'd still make the trade.
Duda and Cadaver aint gonna do shit
Churchill couldn't inspire this offense.
Quote:
But they still won. Still does nothing to inspire the offense.
Churchill couldn't inspire this offense.
Lol.
I was thinking passed ball or balk. Cuddyer/Duda need to be platooned, and in addition to Murphy they need to add another bat. With the Dodgers rumored to like Niese, I wonder if they'd give up Scott Van Slyke. That type of guy would be a nice pickup.
Thank you. LOL. Best line of the week.
Also whos getting sent down for Matz?
Quote:
Wouldn't have lost the pick.
I never understood SA with the Byrd situation. If the Mets were looking at a stop-gap then why not just resign Byrd. Cuddyer is not a better player and cost the Mets a pick.
Probably a "favor" to the guy who played about one week this season and probably won't play again (Wright)
Byrd would have made way more sense as a 1 year bridge to Conforto.
Also whos getting sent down for Matz?
Don't have to announce until Tuesday since the previous game got delayed.
On this team they can DH.
Problem is. To get some real hitting, they'll likely have to give up some of that good pitching
Quote:
era of pitching for them I'm going to lose it. Just assemble an average lineup and this team will be very good for years.
Problem is. To get some real hitting, they'll likely have to give up some of that good pitching
Or spend money/take on a risky contract or 2.
Sick stuff
Quote:
era of pitching for them I'm going to lose it. Just assemble an average lineup and this team will be very good for years.
Problem is. To get some real hitting, they'll likely have to give up some of that good pitching
I'd like to think they could spend a little money to ensure that the best young pitching they've had maybe ever isn't wasted.
Upton will break the bank, but I don't know that any of the other guys will.
Upton will break the bank, but I don't know that any of the other guys will.
Depends on the years and numbers. All good players that could help. But a couple of those guys will be MASSIVELY overpaid. Hopefully the quantity available will help out the trade market though.
Open the wallet and buy the hitting. People are going to come see these guys pitch. Attendance will improve and can not be used as any excuse.
The opportunity is there to capitalize on this pitching and still keep it all
Brender just tweeted he's through 8 with the PG still in tact. Anyone have a report on him? First i've heard his name.
Respectfully, they're supposed to do this. Meanwhile, none of those bats are close and the Mets need them now. Maybe Conforto is closer yet we're looking 2017/18 if this hierarchy waits.
Text Book
Quote:
Conforto, Nimmo, Cecchini, Rosario, Smith, Beccerra, Morris, Meisner, Fulmer, Molina (even if he's hurt he's still a few years away). Hopefully a few guys from this past draft (and last year's) continue the trend.
Respectfully, they're supposed to do this. Meanwhile, none of those bats are close and the Mets need them now. Maybe Conforto is closer yet we're looking 2017/18 if this hierarchy waits.
Respectfully, 29 other teams are supposed to do it also and they aren't. And for 20+ years this team didn't do it as well as they are apparently doing it now.
I completely agree that none of these guys will make an impact at the MLB level any time soon (maybe Conforto). That's a totally separate discussion though.
With the injuries and the bad hitting and the bad defense they're still above .500 and hopefully getting Murphy back.
They've been among the top 5 systems in baseball going on 3 years in a row, so they are doing it better than most. That's with graduating heralded prospects like Harvey, Wheeler, TdA and unheralded guys like JdG, Familia, Lagares, Mejia. Hard to find any metric of any org getting more out of their farm system right now. Entire team is homegrown. The external moves are the issue.
Quote:
Take a closer look. I know we're feeling good today but let's think the Mets have a laundry list of prospects while other have a bare system. There are a lot of young kids in systems out there. Other teams ARE doing this.
They've been among the top 5 systems in baseball going on 3 years in a row, so they are doing it better than most. That's with graduating heralded prospects like Harvey, Wheeler, TdA and unheralded guys like JdG, Familia, Lagares, Mejia. Hard to find any metric of any org getting more out of their farm system right now. Entire team is homegrown. The external moves are the issue.
The team can't hit, play sound defense, demonstrate any speed, etc. They can pitch and perhaps have graduated more pitchers than anybody else yet they're flirting with dead last as far as position players with nothing on deck.
Never heard of him before. He's on Kingsport.
They need at least two bats to bring it together.
Quote:
its just absurd the talent in that rotation.
They need at least two bats to bring it together.
Yup. Hopefully Confroto is one of them.
Yup - another good reason to add another LF option and put Cuddyer into a platoon. Will be plenty of opportunities for him to find some PT, if he can earn it. Seems like he's been needing more and more days off recently anyway.
Problem is...DW is probably done, Murphy is probably gone after this year, and TdA can't be relied on to be healthy. Everyone else is either bad, outrageously streaky, or "potential." Their offense is in shambles.
Now back to the grown ups...
Quote:
When he gets hot like this, he's ridiculous. Unfortunately, equally intense cold streaks usually follow to offset them.
Yup - another good reason to add another LF option and put Cuddyer into a platoon. Will be plenty of opportunities for him to find some PT, if he can earn it. Seems like he's been needing more and more days off recently anyway.
Agreed. Cuddyer is killing us.
The big problem is that Duda is pitiful right now and I'm not sure why. Not sure if it's an injury or what because he was quite good in April/May but has just been so, so bad since.
But if we could get Duda back to what he was the 2nd half of last year and early this year, get Murphy back in the lineup and maybe get Conforto up here at some point.. maybe the offense will be more passable. It would really help if we could swing a trade (not a blockbuster, just a mid-scale trade that gets us depth and a decent player)
Frustrating to have a staff this good and just have a lineup so deficient.
Now back to the grown ups...
Threatening to kill somebody. F'off psycho
Quote:
Yesterday's game was so nice without you...wish you would have stayed there.
Now back to the grown ups...
Threatening to kill somebody. F'off psycho
Please explain how I threatened to kill you, liar. I'll wait.
They need more regular day bat and a bench. I think the pitchers should be bench bat considerations b/c they're showing more promise than the current bench.
If Duda is fine, hopefully he can make the right adjustments. It's weird that he just suddenly hit a snag and has been in a mega black hole since but we desperately need him to hit like he was before if we're going to have any chance here.
Do they know they are a part of a potentially historic rotation or are they just fed up with the lack of offense? Maybe both? Interesting stuff though.
Sandy said he's got 1 bullet, he's willing to overpay and we know he's had conversations with Oakland. Maybe it's yet another banana in the tailpipe, but short of something unexpected coming along I suspect he deals some combination of Reynolds/Montero/Robles/Fulmer/Mejia for 1 of them. Worst case scenario he has to get a Parra type of guy.
If Flores is going to be the 2nd baseman and they can solidify 3rd then Herera is a trade chip for SS (maybe).
IDK, they need to add offense somewhere, somehow and at least by 2016.
If Duda is fine, hopefully he can make the right adjustments. It's weird that he just suddenly hit a snag and has been in a mega black hole since but we desperately need him to hit like he was before if we're going to have any chance here.
Last year I thought it was a foregone conclusion Bogaerts would be moved off SS. this year he's been better, so I guess there's a shot.
Wheeler's injury hurts for a lot of reasons, but among them is the fact I had him pegged as the guy to trade. I like him, but I viewed his ceiling as lower than Thor, Matz, or Harvey, wasn't sure about deGrom. Now I view Wheeler as probably less than deGrom too.
but he still has top of the rotation upside, so it's not some huge gap.
it's a conundrum, I don't want to trade any of Harvey, Thor, deGrom or Matz, but how do you get a big bat otherwise.
Beane does like to make moves.
lol - the thought of him at 3rd crossed my mind. How to keep an injury prone player healthy (he's already going to be 27).
He has to stay on the field.
I don't disagree - this team needs a Gomez/Upton/Tulo type of presence playing every day. I just don't think it's realistically happening right now. Honestly don't think it will happen unless Wright retires.
He's having a good, but not great year, he has a lingering thumb injury that seems more nuisance than injury, he's probably achieved some level of persona non grata in Milwaukee, and he's got some very public baggage.
A change of scenery might be best for both parties there, and the Brewers are bad again.
And the Brewers apparently would like to move him and not eat any of his salary.
On the Mets he can play OF or 3B.
Not sure what it takes to get that done. If it can somehow be without Thor, Matz, Harvey or DeGrom I do it in a heartbeat.
I don't see the Mets ownership adding that cash though. He's owed 100M or so. But he's 36/37 when the contract ends, not one that goes into his later 30's/40 year old season like some of them.
AGREE
The Mets have gotten 617 ABs - or about 25 percent of the non-pitcher ABs - from these 8 players: Ceciliani, Mayberry, Herrera, Plawecki, Campbell, Recker, Muno, Monell, and Nieuwenhuis.
Combined they have a .181 batting average. I can't be bothered to run the other numbers but needless to say that's absolutely dreadful when a quarter of your position player ABs have resulted in a .181 BA.
So while getting a slugger would be great, strengthening the bench would be a much more cost effective way to improve the offense. Getting guys healthy will of course help too. And bringing up Conforto which bounces Cuddyer to the bench immediately makes the bench stronger.
Upton is an ideal target but not at a 189 to 200 million pricetag. I know that's what he'll command but I just don't think he's worth that much. Plus he strikes out a lot. But he's young.
What we needed was a healthy David Wright.
If Wright retires, which I doubt unless he has another setback, I think they'd have to go after Upton. If he doesn't retire I'd be ok with them going after some combo of a solid regular SS (Desmond may be a steal after this shitty season) and a mid-tier OF (like Spann, Zobrist or Fowler). The need for 2 bats is accounting for the likelihood Murphy is gone as well, with Herrera or Flores playing 2B.
The Mets have gotten 617 ABs - or about 25 percent of the non-pitcher ABs - from these 8 players: Ceciliani, Mayberry, Herrera, Plawecki, Campbell, Recker, Muno, Monell, and Nieuwenhuis.
Combined they have a .181 batting average. I can't be bothered to run the other numbers but needless to say that's absolutely dreadful when a quarter of your position player ABs have resulted in a .181 BA.
So while getting a slugger would be great, strengthening the bench would be a much more cost effective way to improve the offense. Getting guys healthy will of course help too. And bringing up Conforto which bounces Cuddyer to the bench immediately makes the bench stronger.
Excellent post. Strengthening the bench was a huge missed opportunity in the offseason.
Four studs is more than enough. Teams don't go through five starters in the playoffs anyway.
One stud pitcher for a stud bat increases the likelihood of success rather than an extra pitcher every five days and one less bat everyday.
Monell, Kirk N, Recker, Muno, these guys all have less than 50 at-bats, they're not why the Mets offense is anemic.
It's not those guys or the bench, it's the regulars. Duda, Cuddyer, Granderson (until lately), Flores, Lagares (5 out of 8 have been pretty consistently playing) - have all been below average. If they were playing to their expectations the injury fill-ins wouldn't be dooming the team.
Upton is an ideal target but not at a 189 to 200 million pricetag. I know that's what he'll command but I just don't think he's worth that much. Plus he strikes out a lot. But he's young.
What we needed was a healthy David Wright.
Agree, healthy dw makes a big difference.
Zach wheeler has much upside as any of these guys. Odds are not all of them are going to be aces but a #3 production from your 5th spot is awfully good.
Monell, Kirk N, Recker, Muno, these guys all have less than 50 at-bats, they're not why the Mets offense is anemic.
It's not those guys or the bench, it's the regulars. Duda, Cuddyer, Granderson (until lately), Flores, Lagares (5 out of 8 have been pretty consistently playing) - have all been below average. If they were playing to their expectations the injury fill-ins wouldn't be dooming the team.
Plaw and Dilson have done better then the rest so taking them out makes the bench look even worse. Exclude them and you've got 402 or 17% of the teams positional player ABs resulting in a BA of .164. Again these are not pitcher ABs.
So the bench has absolutely been a huge problem. It would be much cheaper to upgrade the bench and 17% of the teams ABs from a miserable .164 to a respectable .250 than it would be get a similar upgrade for Lagares, Cuddyer and/or Flores.
I'm using BA for OPS because its much easier to calculate.
pinstripes. He will go where the biggest contract will be.
that's the problem.
that 17% won't make enough of a difference to outweigh the awfulness of the 83% of at-bats of the regulars (or whatever it is).
I'm not saying don't try and upgrade those at-bats. I'm just saying I don't think they will be cost-effective, since I don't see a major impact.
Need to get the starters on track.
Absolutely. The Nats had the best pitching in baseball last year and STILL went out and signed one of, if not the best pitcher in baseball.
You never know what'll happen with these pitchers but I agree that Harvey will be a goner. He's 100% about the money.
Under contract through 2018. FA in 2019. I agree that it's silly to think about and I won't shed any tears if we don't sign him to an 8 year contract at age 30.
Yes, his earliest FA year is 2019 and I think given his age it would be insane for him to turn down 100M+ when he's already had TJS, Boras or not. Turning down 1M because you didn't get 2M is one thing, turning down 100M+ guaranteed would moderately insane. Stanton and Trout didn't do it. I know Boras has been all over the place with Harper's contract status, but again all those guys are hitters who don't have to think about the ever-growing epidemic of elbows blowing out on guys who throw 95+. 2019 isn't "right around the corner" either.
He'll be in pinstripes.
that's the problem.
that 17% won't make enough of a difference to outweigh the awfulness of the 83% of at-bats of the regulars (or whatever it is).
I'm not saying don't try and upgrade those at-bats. I'm just saying I don't think they will be cost-effective, since I don't see a major impact.
Need to get the starters on track.
I hear what you're saying, but upgrading a starter is like 10-12% of the ABs so that's less opportunity for an impact than those 17% ABs which have been so God awful. As bad as our starters have been, they haven't been as bad as most of the bench guys. I just think the bench is low hanging fruit right now. Basically what we're looking for is upgrades over Ciciliani/Nieuwenhuis and Campbell. How hard can that be?
In August I'd like to see a regular lineup like this:
Granderson
Tejada/Lagares
Duda
TdA
Murphy
Flores
Conforto
Lageres/Tejada
Pitcher
With a bench of:
Cuddyer
Plawecki
OF acquisition > Ceciliani
IF aquisition > Campbell
Reds coming into this game in the last 4 games scored 21 runs on 54 hits but scored just 4 runs on 22 hits in this series with 11 of those hits in the suspended game. Meaning they had just 11 hits on the other two games. If you can pitch like that, you really dont need a lot of hitting seriously.
DeGrom should have the best shot at accomplishing that.
But I wouldn't be surprised if it was a no-decision 9 inning no hitter
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
All Thor needs to do is have command of that curveball. When he does, he's is lights out.
What?! Must be some interesting family dynamic for that to happen. I wonder who sits where during thanksgiving.
I don't think his brother was ever in the picture after he was born.
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but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
Link - ( New Window )
https://vine.co/v/MZEIQArWevv
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In comment 12347194 Headhunter said:
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but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
It's baseless speculation from paranoid fans. How about enjoying him while he's here? He might only be here another few years but regardless.. he's not going anywhere for a while. There's literally no reason to worry about this now.
Chances are, his best work will be done here in Flushing as a Met. He's not going anywhere any time soon. Let it go.
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In comment 12347231 stillpoe said:
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In comment 12347194 Headhunter said:
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but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Lol, how else am I supposed to take that line if not literally? You specifically said that people were taking "that" routine when absolutely nobody was. You can call people out for things they didn't say. You were obviously exaggerating/fabricating stuff to support your point.
And, yes, Harvey going to the Yankees is baseless and silly. But Harvey being all about $$ is absolutely not baseless. Not that it's much of a stretch anyway since most pro athletes are all about money. Do a little research on Harvey and you'll understand.
Come on HH, it's more than that and you know it. Not it was as simple as that then this wouldn't even be a conversation. Stop exaggerating.
That day is a ways away, though. Why worry about it now?
That day is a ways away, though. Why worry about it now?
That's the thing, I'm not worrying about it at all. I was just responding to a comment spike made last night. I even followed that up by saying it was silly to worry about it now.
But people have a way of overly exaggerating what other people say and I just wanted to clarify why I made the statement. It's just my opinion anyway...no big deal.
I just hope he makes it through the next 3 and a half seasons without any significant injuries.
and we can cross the bridge of where does he go when we get there if he hasn't been extended by then.
I just hope he makes it through the next 3 and a half seasons without any significant injuries.
and we can cross the bridge of where does he go when we get there if he hasn't been extended by then.
You are right. I hope all five will have long lasting careers as a Met
As a Mets fan, you look at the calendar and worry.
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In comment 12347261 PhiPsi125 said:
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In comment 12347231 stillpoe said:
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In comment 12347194 Headhunter said:
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but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Lol, how else am I supposed to take that line if not literally? You specifically said that people were taking "that" routine when absolutely nobody was. You can call people out for things they didn't say. You were obviously exaggerating/fabricating stuff to support your point.
And, yes, Harvey going to the Yankees is baseless and silly. But Harvey being all about $$ is absolutely not baseless. Not that it's much of a stretch anyway since most pro athletes are all about money. Do a little research on Harvey and you'll understand.
You took a tongue-in-cheek line (one that was making light of how we're long accustomed to letdowns as Mets fans) and interpreted it as me saying "You guys want to get rid of Harvey." Since you clearly took that line the wrong way, let me clarify: I did not say you guys said "Let's get rid of Harvey". I was alluding to you guys accepting his departure at the end of his current contract as a foregone conclusion. You misinterpreted an analogy made in jest and are making a fuss about it. Take your own advice and stop calling people out for things they didn't say.
No chance I would trade Thor or Matz for him. Zero.
He has been a disgrace defensively. All those "tools" should have at least allowed him to be decent playing 2nd base. Of course he's young and his bat can get better but there is no chance I would trade a bonafied young ace like Thor or Matz for some kid that has tools that may or may not translate some day.
Likewise, I think Sandy would laugh them off the phone in reverse.
No to Russel while Familia for Tulo will happen.
He's already about a 2 WAR player this year in 77 games. He was a 1.2 WAR player through ALL of last season.
He's got to avoid one of those black hole ice cold streaks, though.. because if he follows this up with one of those, everything will sink back into "average-below average" territory.
Exactly. And I'm not saying Russell won't be good. Just irks me that people act like this is the "chosen one" when he's been kicking the ball all over the infield all season. I'm sure he's going to be good player someday but Matz and Syndergaard are already good.
He's already about a 2 WAR player this year in 77 games. He was a 1.2 WAR player through ALL of last season.
He's got to avoid one of those black hole ice cold streaks, though.. because if he follows this up with one of those, everything will sink back into "average-below average" territory.
Yup. And even when he was cold he was still walking and getting on base. I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for the season he's having. And his hot streaks can last a while. This might not even be the peak yet.
prospects. You name the sport I'll give you a can't miss that did, then another, then another
Yes, there are guys who miss and never pan out but making much of anything out of Russell's first 2 months in the bigs is a waste of time. People thought Harper was underwhelming or not living up to the hype at one point, too.
It takes time.
As for Addison Russell, I questioned his pedestrian stats a while back. I guess it's just a product of our environment but we are quick to question our own young players while giving the benefit of the doubt to other teams young players...but I guess that's just because we see them all the time.
I wouldn't feel good about trading Thor or Matz for the "potential" that Russell "might" become. If I'm trading those types of pitchers, I wasn't proven taken in return. Not potential. We already have potential.
You are right, it happens all the time. It would be a big big risk to trade our starting pitcher depth for Russell. Especially since Russell's minor league stats aren't that dissimilar from our own "potential" player Flores.
Herrera, Nimmo, Montero or Mejia?
He also brought up Hanley, but his injury stuff is scary and he's probably too much $. Does have 15 HRs though.
First time ever through deGrom-Thor-Harvey-Matz rotation, they went...
3-0, 29.2 IP, 19 H, 5 BB, 21 K
1.21 ERA, 0.81 WHIP
IT'S HAPPENING!
IT'S HAPPENING! [/quote]
The PhenoMETnals
granderson has a higher bwar, gomez isn't having a great season.
Familia will be a likely selection but you never know about all star relievers.
is he available for pinch hitting duties?
IT'S HAPPENING!
The PhenoMETnals [/quote]
worst nickname ever.
If they somehow got in the playoffs, who's in your playoff rotation?
Rotate Cuddyer in a little bit with those 3 guys, and honestly with the way Lagares has played, it's 50-50 whether or note Gomez ends up in a corner or CF. Put a 20 HR/30 steal guy with his kind of speed at the top of the lineup and it changes this lineup in a big way.
It just doesn't make any sense.
if I'm trading one of them it's for a young cost-controlled OFer with all-star potenital. Not a season and a half rental who will be 31 when the extension kicks in.
Thor/Matz 22/23 year old stud top of the rotation starter under team control for 5+ years for 1 year of Carlos Gomez.
Not if I were the GM.
I think that's the most realistic "big get" that could happen for this team, though still obviously a long shot.
Matt Harvey for Kris Bryant.
Go.
Matt Harvey for Kris Bryant.
Go.
If the cubs approached me and not the other way around, i would ask for more plus Bryant, Harvey is a bit more established than Bryant (rookie). Call me crazy but I would try to get more for Harvey.
Funny you should say that. It's just something that was thrown out there on ESPN radio from Ryan Ruocco.
"Metro2007 wrote:
I just can't knock taking a lefty who throws low 90's, good frame, plus slider and local... plus "Lets go Matz" will be awesome! lol"
:)
3rd in fwar and top 10 in bwar, metrics love him. Kipnis is tied with Frazier in fwar btw.
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how Frazier has gone absolutely nuts ever since his name came up in possible trades. He's a stud.
3rd in fwar and top 10 in bwar, metrics love him. Kipnis is tied with Frazier in fwar btw.
Takes longer to buy into the late bloomers (Ortiz, Bautista etc) but Frazier is the goods. He's MVP caliber good this season (no exaggeration) and has been all-star good for a few years now.
familia should make it as well
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 47s47 seconds ago
As for Rockets, like we reported last week, Houston WANTS to get in the game for both Aldridge and Kevin Love. Needs to shed salary, tho
I wouldn't mind taking Clint Capela as part of a deal.
Matt Harvey for Kris Bryant.
Go.
I know it's just a hypothetical but no way would the Cubs ever do that trade
Wish we can get both
I'd deal Nimmo as a headliner for Reddick without thinking twice.
Conforto/Lagares/Reddick
I'm still doubting the return on Niese but I'd LOVE to pry away De Leon
I don't give up a Thor or Matz for a Gomez rental.
Wish we can get both
Nimmo Plus IMO
Wouldn't mind an Alex Guerrero who could play both 3rd and OF whereas i beleive Reddick only plays the OF (yet he's more proven than Guererro.
If Flores is going to remain at 2nd then maybe Herera becomes a trade chip.
Would be nice to land one or maybe both. (of course, Mav f'ed up LF so).
"Metro2007 wrote:
I just can't knock taking a lefty who throws low 90's, good frame, plus slider and local... plus "Lets go Matz" will be awesome! lol"
:)
Wow Dan, how did you find THAT??? Hat tip to you by the way.
what would you do with Zobrist? 2b?
he'd be Murphy 2.0 with possibly better D.
I see no point in acquiring Zobrist if Murphy is healthy unless you tell me what you plan to do with him.
I'm convinced hitting coach is about as useless as ice to an eskimo.
you have seen what the Astros are doing with Dave Hudgens as hitting coach, right?
Same guy who with the Mets had near the bottom production, in Houston (5th in runs, 9th in OPS, #1 in MLB in HRs)
Mets are near the bottom in every category.
So rave about Long all they want, he's not making them hit better.
Yeah, that Anthony Recker.
Agreed - and I think he'd be an excellent fit at the top of the lineup.
If Baez is any good, he would be up in the ML right now.
His value has taken a hit, while Niese's stock has risen as a legit ML #3 starter.
I think a 3rd/4th OFer from the Dodgers or Rollins is about as much as can possibly be expected for him. Though supposedly the Blue Jays are looking for pitching now as well, and they have always loved Niese.
2015 Rollins - 7HR
Ruben Tejada Career - 8HR
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Lol, Eric
2015 Rollins - 7HR
Ruben Tejada Career - 8HR
2015 Flores - 10 HR
Haha, Flores FTW!!
If that is indeed the case, Tejada & Rollins rest of season, who are you taking?
Haha, you got me. That made me laugh. Didn't know his BAPIP was so bad...maybe I'll soften on my Rollins stance. He can come to the Mets but only if he publicly states that "we are the team to beat."
Rollins is 36 going to be 37 in November. There is not much left at a hefty price tag