he's been way down since the whole steroid thing. The hasn't exactly been "Ryan Braun" for going on three years now and that scares me at his age.
Upton is an ideal target but not at a 189 to 200 million pricetag. I know that's what he'll command but I just don't think he's worth that much. Plus he strikes out a lot. But he's young.
What we needed was a healthy David Wright.
Agree, healthy dw makes a big difference.
Zach wheeler has much upside as any of these guys. Odds are not all of them are going to be aces but a #3 production from your 5th spot is awfully good.
The Wilpons need to then sell at a huge profit to a deep pocketed group like Dodgers did and sign each one of these pitchers to a long term deal including Familia.
post, other than I disagree with it, is that more than 33% of those at-bats are from 2 guys. Herrera and Plawecki - who both project to be better than the guys they'd acquire to strengthen the "bench" and one is a backup catcher.
Monell, Kirk N, Recker, Muno, these guys all have less than 50 at-bats, they're not why the Mets offense is anemic.
It's not those guys or the bench, it's the regulars. Duda, Cuddyer, Granderson (until lately), Flores, Lagares (5 out of 8 have been pretty consistently playing) - have all been below average. If they were playing to their expectations the injury fill-ins wouldn't be dooming the team.
Plaw and Dilson have done better then the rest so taking them out makes the bench look even worse. Exclude them and you've got 402 or 17% of the teams positional player ABs resulting in a BA of .164. Again these are not pitcher ABs.
So the bench has absolutely been a huge problem. It would be much cheaper to upgrade the bench and 17% of the teams ABs from a miserable .164 to a respectable .250 than it would be get a similar upgrade for Lagares, Cuddyer and/or Flores.
I'm using BA for OPS because its much easier to calculate.
get back to me in 2018 with that nonsense. The 2 fielding plays that Matz made should not get lost. The bunt by Hamilton and more impressive was the 1-6-3 DP when he was in a jam, got the cimebacker and wsited till he found his SS
Under contract through 2018. FA in 2019. I agree that it's silly to think about and I won't shed any tears if we don't sign him to an 8 year contract at age 30.
This Harvey to the Yankees bullshit is something that has 0 substance
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
RE: Isn't Harvey under contract for like 3-4 more years?
Yes, his earliest FA year is 2019 and I think given his age it would be insane for him to turn down 100M+ when he's already had TJS, Boras or not. Turning down 1M because you didn't get 2M is one thing, turning down 100M+ guaranteed would moderately insane. Stanton and Trout didn't do it. I know Boras has been all over the place with Harper's contract status, but again all those guys are hitters who don't have to think about the ever-growing epidemic of elbows blowing out on guys who throw 95+. 2019 isn't "right around the corner" either.
is upgrading the bench bats doesn't make the regular starters any better.
that's the problem.
that 17% won't make enough of a difference to outweigh the awfulness of the 83% of at-bats of the regulars (or whatever it is).
I'm not saying don't try and upgrade those at-bats. I'm just saying I don't think they will be cost-effective, since I don't see a major impact.
Need to get the starters on track.
I hear what you're saying, but upgrading a starter is like 10-12% of the ABs so that's less opportunity for an impact than those 17% ABs which have been so God awful. As bad as our starters have been, they haven't been as bad as most of the bench guys. I just think the bench is low hanging fruit right now. Basically what we're looking for is upgrades over Ciciliani/Nieuwenhuis and Campbell. How hard can that be?
In August I'd like to see a regular lineup like this:
it is the reality of TJ. You have good days and set backs. You work through the setbacks and have less of them. He should be his old self next spring. I expect the same thing for Wheeler
the amazing thing is that deGrom is almost Harvey like now
I know Phi hates the idea, but I'd literally rather roll the dice on Rollins and let him hit 2nd before putting Lagares or Tejada there for the next 3+ months. Even in a terrible season with a BABIP of .229 he has 7 HRs, positive defensive ratings, and 6 SBs. Tejada has 8 HR's in his entire CAREER.
As mentally tough as Matt is you have to be thinking about the arm and the torque. Am I throwing too many off speed pitches. A million things. He's only human. I'll be surprised if Harvey doesn't win a Cy Young during the balance of his Mets contract.
Can you imagine these guys all healthy and in form
is on a roll or is just going to be like this forever, Harvey has been up and down, Syndergaard if you notice has much better results at home as his babip on the road is a crazy .426.
Reds coming into this game in the last 4 games scored 21 runs on 54 hits but scored just 4 runs on 22 hits in this series with 11 of those hits in the suspended game. Meaning they had just 11 hits on the other two games. If you can pitch like that, you really dont need a lot of hitting seriously.
RE: Can you imagine these guys all healthy and in form
and slow rollers more than Thor has endured since he's come up. As good as Thor has been, he's also been extremely unlucky. And if he continues to improve and locate/select pitches better, he'll be as advertised also. All good stuff.
RE: This Harvey to the Yankees bullshit is something that has 0 substance
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
big bucks to give you some bang. Cuddyer is killing them by not being average. Lucas Duda has regressed and is back to swinging at breaking balls in the dirt and his swing added length. Flores is a tease that flahes at times but becomes invisible at the plate. Lagares gets himself out more than any other guy in the lineup. Granderson is as advertised streaky. TDA can't stay healthy and Murphy is a professional hitter, Ahealthy DW was hitting .333 and driving the ball for 2 weeks and now this. Tejada get exposed at the plate with too much playing time. Dilson Herrera is an interesting possibility that hasn't flashed much. Ceciliani is a nice 4th IF that can steal a base. Mayberry reminds me of Preston Wilson Mookies son, he looks the part but that is about it. This is a mish mosh with no stabilizing bat to anchor the lineup.
RE: I've never seen a pitcher give up more dinks, dunks, broken bat hits
and slow rollers more than Thor has endured since he's come up. As good as Thor has been, he's also been extremely unlucky. And if he continues to improve and locate/select pitches better, he'll be as advertised also. All good stuff.
All Thor needs to do is have command of that curveball. When he does, he's is lights out.
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Can we stop the chicken little "Harvey is going to YANKEEZ!!!" BS?
It's baseless speculation from paranoid fans. How about enjoying him while he's here? He might only be here another few years but regardless.. he's not going anywhere for a while. There's literally no reason to worry about this now.
Chances are, his best work will be done here in Flushing as a Met. He's not going anywhere any time soon. Let it go.
Right now I pitch for the Mets. That becomes interpreted as I was a Yankee fan growing up as a kid in Connecticut and I'm stuck with the Mets who drafted me. The Mets are just a stepping stone to my ultimate dream of pitching for the Yankees. I went to Derek Jeters last game, I mean can I be more clear what my intentions are?
then he should go, but I can't forsee him deciding NOT to take the money to buy out his arbitration years here now, and take a chance on hunting for some sucker team to throw $200m on a 30 year old SP.
but someone who was at the game said the place was electric throughout and it was palpable. You can tell me all the other stadiums rock during special games but I say that there is a no more passionate fan base going back to 1962 than the NY Mets. Shea Stadium literally swayed at times and sitting in the upper deck I thought it was going to collapse. Met fans are unique. Flame away
RE: RE: RE: RE: This Harvey to the Yankees bullshit is something that has 0 substance
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Lol, how else am I supposed to take that line if not literally? You specifically said that people were taking "that" routine when absolutely nobody was. You can call people out for things they didn't say. You were obviously exaggerating/fabricating stuff to support your point.
And, yes, Harvey going to the Yankees is baseless and silly. But Harvey being all about $$ is absolutely not baseless. Not that it's much of a stretch anyway since most pro athletes are all about money. Do a little research on Harvey and you'll understand.
Right now I pitch for the Mets. That becomes interpreted as I was a Yankee fan growing up as a kid in Connecticut and I'm stuck with the Mets who drafted me. The Mets are just a stepping stone to my ultimate dream of pitching for the Yankees. I went to Derek Jeters last game, I mean can I be more clear what my intentions are?
Come on HH, it's more than that and you know it. Not it was as simple as that then this wouldn't even be a conversation. Stop exaggerating.
Of course he's going to take the most money when he gets a chance.
They all do. There's no research necessary here. He's an athlete who will do the same thing every one of his peers does.
That day is a ways away, though. Why worry about it now?
That's the thing, I'm not worrying about it at all. I was just responding to a comment spike made last night. I even followed that up by saying it was silly to worry about it now.
But people have a way of overly exaggerating what other people say and I just wanted to clarify why I made the statement. It's just my opinion anyway...no big deal.
I was really just responding to the general idea a lot of Met fans have. Wasn't really directed toward or anyone specific. I have friends who just won't shut up about how Harvey just can't wait to be a Yankee. It's so silly.
Upton is an ideal target but not at a 189 to 200 million pricetag. I know that's what he'll command but I just don't think he's worth that much. Plus he strikes out a lot. But he's young.
What we needed was a healthy David Wright.
Agree, healthy dw makes a big difference.
Zach wheeler has much upside as any of these guys. Odds are not all of them are going to be aces but a #3 production from your 5th spot is awfully good.
Monell, Kirk N, Recker, Muno, these guys all have less than 50 at-bats, they're not why the Mets offense is anemic.
It's not those guys or the bench, it's the regulars. Duda, Cuddyer, Granderson (until lately), Flores, Lagares (5 out of 8 have been pretty consistently playing) - have all been below average. If they were playing to their expectations the injury fill-ins wouldn't be dooming the team.
Plaw and Dilson have done better then the rest so taking them out makes the bench look even worse. Exclude them and you've got 402 or 17% of the teams positional player ABs resulting in a BA of .164. Again these are not pitcher ABs.
So the bench has absolutely been a huge problem. It would be much cheaper to upgrade the bench and 17% of the teams ABs from a miserable .164 to a respectable .250 than it would be get a similar upgrade for Lagares, Cuddyer and/or Flores.
I'm using BA for OPS because its much easier to calculate.
pinstripes. He will go where the biggest contract will be.
that's the problem.
that 17% won't make enough of a difference to outweigh the awfulness of the 83% of at-bats of the regulars (or whatever it is).
I'm not saying don't try and upgrade those at-bats. I'm just saying I don't think they will be cost-effective, since I don't see a major impact.
Need to get the starters on track.
Absolutely. The Nats had the best pitching in baseball last year and STILL went out and signed one of, if not the best pitcher in baseball.
You never know what'll happen with these pitchers but I agree that Harvey will be a goner. He's 100% about the money.
Under contract through 2018. FA in 2019. I agree that it's silly to think about and I won't shed any tears if we don't sign him to an 8 year contract at age 30.
Yes, his earliest FA year is 2019 and I think given his age it would be insane for him to turn down 100M+ when he's already had TJS, Boras or not. Turning down 1M because you didn't get 2M is one thing, turning down 100M+ guaranteed would moderately insane. Stanton and Trout didn't do it. I know Boras has been all over the place with Harper's contract status, but again all those guys are hitters who don't have to think about the ever-growing epidemic of elbows blowing out on guys who throw 95+. 2019 isn't "right around the corner" either.
He'll be in pinstripes.
that's the problem.
that 17% won't make enough of a difference to outweigh the awfulness of the 83% of at-bats of the regulars (or whatever it is).
I'm not saying don't try and upgrade those at-bats. I'm just saying I don't think they will be cost-effective, since I don't see a major impact.
Need to get the starters on track.
I hear what you're saying, but upgrading a starter is like 10-12% of the ABs so that's less opportunity for an impact than those 17% ABs which have been so God awful. As bad as our starters have been, they haven't been as bad as most of the bench guys. I just think the bench is low hanging fruit right now. Basically what we're looking for is upgrades over Ciciliani/Nieuwenhuis and Campbell. How hard can that be?
In August I'd like to see a regular lineup like this:
Granderson
Tejada/Lagares
Duda
TdA
Murphy
Flores
Conforto
Lageres/Tejada
Pitcher
With a bench of:
Cuddyer
Plawecki
OF acquisition > Ceciliani
IF aquisition > Campbell
Reds coming into this game in the last 4 games scored 21 runs on 54 hits but scored just 4 runs on 22 hits in this series with 11 of those hits in the suspended game. Meaning they had just 11 hits on the other two games. If you can pitch like that, you really dont need a lot of hitting seriously.
DeGrom should have the best shot at accomplishing that.
But I wouldn't be surprised if it was a no-decision 9 inning no hitter
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
All Thor needs to do is have command of that curveball. When he does, he's is lights out.
What?! Must be some interesting family dynamic for that to happen. I wonder who sits where during thanksgiving.
I don't think his brother was ever in the picture after he was born.
Quote:
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
Link - ( New Window )
https://vine.co/v/MZEIQArWevv
Quote:
In comment 12347194 Headhunter said:
Quote:
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
It's baseless speculation from paranoid fans. How about enjoying him while he's here? He might only be here another few years but regardless.. he's not going anywhere for a while. There's literally no reason to worry about this now.
Chances are, his best work will be done here in Flushing as a Met. He's not going anywhere any time soon. Let it go.
Quote:
In comment 12347231 stillpoe said:
Quote:
In comment 12347194 Headhunter said:
Quote:
but I will have to endure the next few years here. Last time I'm going to comment on it. Nobody knows what will happen. Do you really think Harvey is worrying about Free Agency 4 years before he is eligible? He by his own admission is having a tougher time working through stuff coming off the TJ. He was a Yankee fan growing up, big whoop, EVERY baseball player was a fan of some team growing up and you rarely if ever hear a guy say I'm going to ---------------- because I rooted for them as a kid. I know his agent is Scott Boras. So what?
+10
Are we, as long suffering Mets fan, so psychologically damaged by years of ineptitude that we are now pulling the "let's break up with the other person first before they break up with us" routine with Harvey? The guy was practically our lone bright spot the past 3 years and now we're okay with the thought of him leaving? He proudly carried the team and gave us a reason to watch the Mets during dark times. Until proven otherwise, he's our guy and we should count our blessings that we have him.
Huh? Who's saying to "get rid of Harvey before he leaves us first" type of comment? Nobody that I've seen here so let's not get carried away. Harvey's history and public comments are less than comforting as mets fans so I can certainly understand why fans might think this way. But it's a long ways away and we should just enjoy him while he's here. Who knows what can happen. Hopefully he working on his third straight World Series championship!
You took that line literally. I wasn't saying that people wanted to get rid of him, but you and others have resigned to the fact that he's
leaving/going to the Yankees. You said he was a "goner" and 100% about the money. I, in turn, agreed with Headhunter that it was baseless. Not sure how that's getting carried away; a few of you are certain he's going to the Yankees, a few of us disagree.
Lol, how else am I supposed to take that line if not literally? You specifically said that people were taking "that" routine when absolutely nobody was. You can call people out for things they didn't say. You were obviously exaggerating/fabricating stuff to support your point.
And, yes, Harvey going to the Yankees is baseless and silly. But Harvey being all about $$ is absolutely not baseless. Not that it's much of a stretch anyway since most pro athletes are all about money. Do a little research on Harvey and you'll understand.
Come on HH, it's more than that and you know it. Not it was as simple as that then this wouldn't even be a conversation. Stop exaggerating.
That day is a ways away, though. Why worry about it now?
That day is a ways away, though. Why worry about it now?
That's the thing, I'm not worrying about it at all. I was just responding to a comment spike made last night. I even followed that up by saying it was silly to worry about it now.
But people have a way of overly exaggerating what other people say and I just wanted to clarify why I made the statement. It's just my opinion anyway...no big deal.
I just hope he makes it through the next 3 and a half seasons without any significant injuries.
and we can cross the bridge of where does he go when we get there if he hasn't been extended by then.
I just hope he makes it through the next 3 and a half seasons without any significant injuries.
and we can cross the bridge of where does he go when we get there if he hasn't been extended by then.
You are right. I hope all five will have long lasting careers as a Met