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Walter Thurmond: Coughlin doesn't believe in modern medicine

Danny Kanell : 6/29/2015 8:19 pm
In an interview with Bleacher Report, Thurmond was asked to compare the three coaches. And, in doing so, Thurmond revealed that one of the two older coaches does not believe in "modern medicine."

According to Thurmond, that coach is Coughlin, who coaches the Giants -- a team that has been ravaged by injuries in the last two seasons.

This is what Thurmond told Bleacher Report about Coughlin's old-school ways:

"Coach Coughlin is the same type of person, but we battled through injuries last season. Yes, he's a little old-school, but he's starting to come around to the times. He doesn't believe in the sport-science aspect like Coach Carroll or Coach Kelly and the newfound technology for the players. His style takes a hit, because he doesn't believe in this aspect. He believes in winning, but he doesn't believe in the modern medicine to progress the players to that next level."

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RE: Blah blah blah  
chris r : 6/29/2015 10:06 pm : link
In comment 12348537 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
Interpretation, he said she said. Whatevs. track who believes this as gospel.. (Sanfran)


Of course you'd never believe anything negative about the Giants. Only good rumors and hearsay are believable.
It isnt really medical advice  
robbieballs2003 : 6/29/2015 10:08 pm : link
Thurmond is obviously saying modern medicine but meaning sports science. He isn't overruling his medical staff unless the Giants just recently hired a new medical staff that has done extensive reseach and has experience in the field of sports science in terms of the way Thurmond is used to seeing.

What did Thurmond say that was so controversial? You would think he called TC a racist or something. All he said was that he does things differently than Carroll and Kelly and that he doesn't seem to really buy into the whole sports science thing. Woah, lets tar and feather this hooligan.
If you want to believe rumors  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/29/2015 10:12 pm : link
That's fine. At least choose believable rumors.

The idea that TC is at all irresponsible with the health of his players is a huge jump to make.

The idea that Tom handles how his players are medically treated is ludicrous. That's a franchise-level decision.

And the idea that even if the above two were true, in an era where players more than ever are coming face to face with health concerns, only Walter Thurmond had the guts to be the hero whistleblower, is even more hard to believe.
More On Coughlin And Modern Medicine  
Trainmaster : 6/29/2015 11:33 pm : link
but somehow we are limiting injuries with a GPS system?  
EricJ : 6/30/2015 12:02 am : link
i guess it is important to know WHERE you are when you get hurt?
RE: Bunch of players also think Chip is a racist..  
SGMen : 6/30/2015 12:38 am : link
In comment 12348521 Sean said:
Quote:
like SFGF said, ex players opinions can't be always taken seriously.
Exactly!
RE: ...  
BlueLou : 6/30/2015 2:56 am : link
In comment 12348568 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Parcells was pretty old school, right? We didn't seem to have these issues when we were "old fashioned".


Eric, no, Parcells was not old school in the least re strength and conditioning. His strength and conditioning head coach, Johnnie Parker, was using Soviet Block training methods, the most radically modern sports science stuff available then. The Giants were prolly among the most juiced teams in the league. They looked pumped up compared to others, as I recall.
He doesn't even say what "Modern Medecine" is  
UberAlias : 6/30/2015 3:25 am : link
The shit Chip Kelly is pushing is not modern. It is at best cutting edge, meaning shit he's trying out which no one else is doing, and at worst, experimental or even controversial. The Giants recently employed GPS tracking devises on players to monitor things and regulated it to ensure they weren't overworking. That flies flat in the face of Thurmond's comments. And the characterizing it as modern medicine is a joke. It is more like utilizing technology in unproven/experimental training methods.
Didn't we just read the Giants were using drones to film practices?  
UberAlias : 6/30/2015 3:40 am : link
i.e using thecnology to advance training? This notion that TC is hell bent on the stone age is a joke. Fine, he's not the mad scientist Kelly is. Most of them aren't. There not a lot of actual science behind what Kelly is doing because there isn't a lot of data to show its effectiveness. But if you don't think the team isn't exploring every angle on this, you don't know what you are talking about.
Relax, it's not like he said  
aquidneck : 6/30/2015 6:42 am : link
"Coughlin doesn't believe in global warming." It's clear from the GPS thing, from the change in diet choices offered at training camp last year, and from the drone experiment this year, that the Giants do not want to be behind the curve when it comes to innovation.

That definitely happened to this franchise in the late 60s and 70s. Teams like Dallas lapped us when it came to implementing computer tecnology and running our draft process. Pretty sure anyone connected to the Mara family remembers.

As others have pointed out, Coughlin is not a bleeding edge type of guy. He doesn't want to waste time with superflous stuff. OTOH he is as detailed a leader as there is. Interested in any possible edge others might get or he might get in competition with them.

Not a luddite. But he doesn't have to run this aspect of the Giants business either. The Giants will hire young, progeressive trainers, nutritionists, etc. if they see a possible benefit. Based on what we've seen in the recent past, I bet they all ready do.
RE: Relax, it's not like he said  
SGMen : 6/30/2015 6:55 am : link
In comment 12348755 aquidneck said:
Quote:
"Coughlin doesn't believe in global warming." It's clear from the GPS thing, from the change in diet choices offered at training camp last year, and from the drone experiment this year, that the Giants do not want to be behind the curve when it comes to innovation.

That definitely happened to this franchise in the late 60s and 70s. Teams like Dallas lapped us when it came to implementing computer tecnology and running our draft process. Pretty sure anyone connected to the Mara family remembers.

As others have pointed out, Coughlin is not a bleeding edge type of guy. He doesn't want to waste time with superflous stuff. OTOH he is as detailed a leader as there is. Interested in any possible edge others might get or he might get in competition with them.

Not a luddite. But he doesn't have to run this aspect of the Giants business either. The Giants will hire young, progeressive trainers, nutritionists, etc. if they see a possible benefit. Based on what we've seen in the recent past, I bet they all ready do.
Agreed. I bet the Giants training, nutrition and medical approaches are all state of the art.
would help  
bc4life : 6/30/2015 7:19 am : link
if he identified specific practices.
RE: ...  
barens : 6/30/2015 7:39 am : link
In comment 12348568 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Parcells was pretty old school, right? We didn't seem to have these issues when we were "old fashioned".


Parcells teams didn't seem to get as many injuries as other teams across the league from what I remember.
Seems like  
TMS : 6/30/2015 8:31 am : link
Thurman should have given at least a couple of specifics about this claim against TC. This guy was injured most of the year and this could be a sour grapes charge otherwise. Of course the media will run with anything for a story.
Can you blame him?! They never had injuries like this  
Victor in CT : 6/30/2015 8:35 am : link
in the "neanderthal" '80s.
RE: robbieballs200  
AnishPatel : 6/30/2015 8:59 am : link
In comment 12348596 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Because if he's been here less than one year, he has no reference to say something like "he's been getting better".

He signed in March 2014 and was put on IR in September. How many practices did he go through here? 30?


Players talk. Perhaps while on IR, he talked to others that are on IR and that's what they told him, and so now in the interview he is repeating it.
RE: If you want to believe rumors  
nicky43 : 6/30/2015 10:35 am : link
In comment 12348626 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That's fine. At least choose believable rumors.

The idea that TC is at all irresponsible with the health of his players is a huge jump to make.

The idea that Tom handles how his players are medically treated is ludicrous. That's a franchise-level decision.

And the idea that even if the above two were true, in an era where players more than ever are coming face to face with health concerns, only Walter Thurmond had the guts to be the hero whistleblower, is even more hard to believe.


Hammer pegs it! Tom leaves this stuff up to the medical team. Knowing Tom, he probably just hasn't seen enough substantial evidence in the benefits of some of this modern medicine stuff to speak highly of it. It doesn't mean he is telling the medical team not to employ any of those methods. He leaves this stuff up to them and he'll be the first to tell you he's not qualified to make those decisions.


One dope talking  
Blackbeard : 6/30/2015 11:10 am : link
plus one dope interpreting and writing equals this kind of garbage.
It happens every summer.
Wasn't the GPS something they basically ripped off from the Eagles  
Mason : 6/30/2015 11:12 am : link
LAST YEAR.

Even Mara said they were behind with training and strength and condition but he has invested money recently into fixing the issue. Why the hell are some acting like this is new info about Coughlin in this thread and something unreasonable.

There have been threads calling for Ronnie Barnes and Jerry Palmieri's heads.
LOL....  
BillKo : 6/30/2015 11:37 am : link
Thurmond talks like his troubles just started in 2014........
wasn't Thurmond suspended for substance abuse  
jcp56 : 6/30/2015 12:08 pm : link
Maybe Seattle Washington let players use certain "medicinals."
well  
giantfan2000 : 6/30/2015 12:20 pm : link
the Strength and Conditioning Coach has been with TC since Boston College so it is doubtful there are getting much modern strength and conditioning techniques
Injuries during Coughlin's tenure  
RobCarpenter : 6/30/2015 12:46 pm : link
Have been a problem, period.

From the link below on Adjusted Games Lost (AGL):

"Then we have the Giants, looking to put together an injury dynasty. After setting the benchmark with 141.3 AGL in 2013, the 2014 club has the second-worst AGL on record at 137.1. Running back and defensive back remained two major problem areas despite new roster additions, but wide receiver was also hit hard, as were the linebackers."
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RE: RE: ...  
nyynyg : 6/30/2015 12:48 pm : link
In comment 12348778 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 12348568 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Parcells was pretty old school, right? We didn't seem to have these issues when we were "old fashioned".



Parcells teams didn't seem to get as many injuries as other teams across the league from what I remember.


Two completely different eras, you can't compare the two. Pro sports has changed a ton in 15-20 years.

Simply, what Thurmond said doesn't bother me either way and I don't know if it is true or not.

All I do know is that the injury history with this team needs to be red flagged more than any position that we talk about ad nauseum on BBI. The injury history here and number of guys out on a week to week basis and over the course of the season is by far a bigger impact than any one guy being injured or us being weak at one position.
Thurmond doesn't expand much on his comments  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/30/2015 12:57 pm : link
hard to know what he means by this in anything but a broad sense, so I think it's difficult to really accept or discount his opinion since it isn't very clear beyond a very vague notion that Coughlin is more old school in his approach than Kelly. Maybe there is something here, maybe not.

RE: RE: I'd like to know what  
UConn4523 : 6/30/2015 1:07 pm : link
In comment 12348566 Joe in Cambridge said:
Quote:
In comment 12348558 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


means to Thurmond. I didn't clink the link so maybe it's there, but there's an entire staff in place. Hard to believe 1 guy, HC or not, would be able to completely change the medical culture of a team. Seems like a bitter jab and nothing more.

Coughlin is the head coach. I would be surprised if he didn't have that kind of power. He picks the staff. Who's going to tell him no?


That would mean TC is overriding medical advice and treatment. Yeah, I don't buy that.
RE: RE: RE: I'd like to know what  
ron mexico : 6/30/2015 2:32 pm : link
In comment 12349247 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 12348566 Joe in Cambridge said:


Quote:


In comment 12348558 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


means to Thurmond. I didn't clink the link so maybe it's there, but there's an entire staff in place. Hard to believe 1 guy, HC or not, would be able to completely change the medical culture of a team. Seems like a bitter jab and nothing more.

Coughlin is the head coach. I would be surprised if he didn't have that kind of power. He picks the staff. Who's going to tell him no?



That would mean TC is overriding medical advice and treatment. Yeah, I don't buy that.


Sports science is about how they train, diet and recover. Not how they treat injuries

Saying TC is not as on the cutting edge as Chip in this is probably the biggest "no shit" statement you could make.

That is not necessarily a bad thing, time will tell if Chips's methods have merit and become standard or gets passed over like many fads before it.
RE: RE: RE: I'd like to know what  
Mason : 6/30/2015 3:42 pm : link
In comment 12349247 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 12348566 Joe in Cambridge said:


Quote:


In comment 12348558 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


means to Thurmond. I didn't clink the link so maybe it's there, but there's an entire staff in place. Hard to believe 1 guy, HC or not, would be able to completely change the medical culture of a team. Seems like a bitter jab and nothing more.

Coughlin is the head coach. I would be surprised if he didn't have that kind of power. He picks the staff. Who's going to tell him no?



That would mean TC is overriding medical advice and treatment. Yeah, I don't buy that.


???? Coughlin is the Head Coach and both the Strength and Conditioning Coach and Team Trainers fall under positions that he is responsible for managing. Any new treatments, exercises and training have to be reviewed and approved by the head coach not the other way around.

Why is new info on a football forum?
heh  
The Tempest : 6/30/2015 6:12 pm : link
Tom Coughlin probably doesn't believe in using modern medicine as an excuse for under performing. If you aren't tough enough to survive practice, what happens during the regular season?
He probably wouldn't be too happy about cutting practice shorter while trying to install a new offense or getting a number of new players on defense on the right page. The CBA reduced the amount of time and quality of practices prior to the start of the season and it hasn't helped players stay healthy.
What does he mean by "modern medicine"?  
SomeFan : 7/1/2015 6:29 am : link
That is the question to be answered.
Why would being with TC since the BC days  
SomeFan : 7/1/2015 6:35 am : link
mean there are no changes. These. Guys done read or consult? Are they doing this coaching and strength training on a remote island? Anyone can read about or consult with specialists on new methods and techniques for anything. It is not that hard to do or learn about.
TC must not be into  
SomeFan : 7/1/2015 6:38 am : link
pilates, yoga or zumba. I think that is what he means.
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