Can Knicks use their cap space and then go over the cap to sign shved. Nothing crazy, but if shved wants $3mm per year is that option available. I read somewhere that maybe we can do that as long as we don't renounce his rights? I would like to bring him back if possible.
According to an NBA executive, Jacksons recruiting strategy is to home in on selling the game and winning not outside business ventures found in Manhattan. Jackson does not want to repeat the same mistake made by the Knicks in 2010, when they last enjoyed enormous cap space.
The organization got so caught up in selling free agents such as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh on New York being the haven to expand their celebrity and brand, the club forgot about the basics winning.
NBA Flash News @NBAFLASHNEWS 26m26 minutes ago
The New York Knicks have declined to extend a qualifying offer worth $1.181M to Quincy Acy. (Via Marc J. Spears - Yahoo Sports)
But Biyombo is a force at the basket, and he could develop into a threatening pick-and-roll dunk machine. Nabbing Biyombo at $3 million or $4 million per season might turn into a bargain, especially after the cap leaps in 2016-17. That kind of salary is already a team-friendly price for a backup big who can start in a pinch, provided the right kind of personnel is around him.
Other BBI mentioned guys: O'Quinn, Joseph
An interesting name I hadn't considered. Derrick Williams. Could be an interesting guy to split time at the 4 with KP. NBA Groupon shopping - ( New Window )
one would show up. Im deleting mine but here is what i had, some is a repeat of what Dan said but it was easier to copy the whole thing:
Quote:
Free agency officially starts at Midnight tonight!
-Aldridge already has 2 meetings scheduled for tonight (LA and HOU). All teams will meet with him in LA. Knicks get the last meeting with him tomorrow. I doubt you can read anything into that, but its nice to have the last word.
-Gasol isnt even taking meetings
-According to Woj knicks are frontrunners for Monroe and Afflalo.
-Knicks will meet with D. Jordan on Thursday (I think).
-Mavs and Raptors showing early interest in Mathews who apparently is recovering really well.
-Jackson is expected to sell guys on winning and not on all the marketing opportunities in NY.
Quote:
According to an NBA executive, Jacksons recruiting strategy is to home in on selling the game and winning not outside business ventures found in Manhattan. Jackson does not want to repeat the same mistake made by the Knicks in 2010, when they last enjoyed enormous cap space.
The organization got so caught up in selling free agents such as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh on New York being the haven to expand their celebrity and brand, the club forgot about the basics winning.
-Sounds like there is mutual interest between the Knicks and Danny Green but it seems like his preference is to return to SA.
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA 11h11 hours ago
That said, I think there might be more Biyombo interest on Twitter than in real NBA. 1 team mentioned often --BOS-- not super interested yet
The Knicks still dont fucking get the summer of LeBron
the lesson there was that three players wanted to team up together, and only the Heat could facilitate that. It didnt hurt that Wade was already there and a champion, and that Miami is not a bad town to live or play in.
Im fine with 60/4 for Monroe. Other signings should be guys like the ones on Lowe's list. You sign 3 of them and one or two will out perform their contract significantly. In salary cap sports you need to out perform contracts. Playing full price for guys like Afflalo and Carroll is a mistake IMO; they're not going to exceed their contract price.
Get the next 3 and D guy. Dont pay for yesterday's 3 and D guy.
Also, while that team isn't better than a 40 win team, its an honest day's work team without the drama, unprofessionalism, defensive indifference that has marked this franchise in recent years (i.e. 10 years).
was just someone connecting the dots and seeing how much the knicks had left after signing monroe. If we are offering 12 mill that should be enough to get Green or Mathews and both are better then afflalo. That said id be pretty nervous signing Green to 12 mill, the Knicks are not the spurs. Much more of a focus will be on Green. I joked yesterday, but id give Wade 12 mill before afflalo, at least you get good or better production for the 60 games he will play.
but i get your point. Afflalo to me is a middle of the pack SG. He can def be a solid starter on a good team. That said he isnt worth 12 mill. Maybe when you factor in the cap increase he will be, but that doesnt do us a ton of good right now.
some left, but I don't think he's worth whatever hes going to get from some team. I still think he is a top SG, and that may be more of an indictment of the lack of elite 2 guards but still.
if we got Jordan. If that team hit the playoffs healthy it could do some damage in a shitty east. You would need to waive/stretch Calderon to get that extra 3-4 mill but you would prolly get some solid vets to play with Melo, Wade, Jordan.
I know it's never going to happen because of the stupid shit he said about Melo, but if the guy to look at as a 3-D shooting guard is Jared Dudley. He is a good perimeter defender, his DRPM was better than both Matthews and Green last year, he is a career 40% 3pt shooter, and he will probably cost half as much as the other guys being mentioned.
Again I know it probably won't happen because of his comments about Melo being overrated, but I'd probably rather have him at 6 mil or so per year rather than Afflalo or Green at 12.
aren't going to resign Bismack Biyombo. Horrific offensive player, but if signed for a reasonable amount as a match-up defender, he'd be a good fit for the Knicks.
A reasonable amount is the key, though. Don't overpay for a one-dimensional guy who still is raw in many aspects.
I really, really hope that whatever FA plan they're working off of involves giving him 25-30 minutes a game this seasion. Not necessarily 25 minutes from Day 1 - it's OK to give him a few games to get his sea legs - and not necessarily as a starter, but since the Knicks have chosen the option with the steepest development curve, the only way this is likely to work out is if they actually commit to playing him and don't pull back if there are some serious growing pains. Because there are almost certainly going to be stretches where Porzingis looks like a fish out of water.
Melo has talked to Jordan, Monroe and Affalo as well...
Stein said on SC that theKnicks and MAvs are the biggest threats to take Jordan from the clippers and the Knicks are confident in their pitch to him...
RE: Now that the Knicks have committed to Porzingis
I really, really hope that whatever FA plan they're working off of involves giving him 25-30 minutes a game this seasion. Not necessarily 25 minutes from Day 1 - it's OK to give him a few games to get his sea legs - and not necessarily as a starter, but since the Knicks have chosen the option with the steepest development curve, the only way this is likely to work out is if they actually commit to playing him and don't pull back if there are some serious growing pains. Because there are almost certainly going to be stretches where Porzingis looks like a fish out of water.
Porzingis is going to play from day 1...he has a skill that will translate well to the NBA and will get him onto the court for at least 25 minutes a game...
If Knicks sign Jordan, i would have no problem starting him next to Melo and Jordan day 1..he would be a great fit next to those 2..
affalo is no better then a rich mans alan Anderson... who is a vet min type guy... give him those minutes and he can put up 12 pts a game and actually play better defense.
afflalo had 1 excellent stretch on a decent team and its got him paid and a reputation.
Marc Berman @NYPost_Berman 26m26 minutes ago
As I wrote, FA Travis Wear will be on #Knicks summer-league team and could be at training camp. That's why no "6'' for Porzingis in Vegas
the lesson there was that three players wanted to team up together, and only the Heat could facilitate that. It didnt hurt that Wade was already there and a champion, and that Miami is not a bad town to live or play in.
it's been mentioned but I'd be careful to not spend all our cap space this summer for the sake of using it. Knicks need to be strategic and if that involves having a solid amount of space left over going into the season, that's fine. Would rather do that than lock the team up into bad deals again.
RE: RE: The Knicks still dont fucking get the summer of LeBron
the lesson there was that three players wanted to team up together, and only the Heat could facilitate that. It didnt hurt that Wade was already there and a champion, and that Miami is not a bad town to live or play in.
It wasnt the fucking pitch.
As long as we know that's all I care about.
With Melo already out recruiting, i think they know that..
it's been mentioned but I'd be careful to not spend all our cap space this summer for the sake of using it. Knicks need to be strategic and if that involves having a solid amount of space left over going into the season, that's fine. Would rather do that than lock the team up into bad deals again.
Even if they use all of their cap space they will not be locked into this team...
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 23s24 seconds ago
Brook Lopez is expected to re-sign with the Nets. He wants to stay. Lionel Hollins & Billy King want him back & Mason Plumlee was traded.
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 59s60 seconds ago
Sources: Tobias Harris would prefer not to return to the Orlando Magic and play for Scott Skiles, who previously coached him in Milwaukee.
As of yesterday, the Knicks were trying to pry him away from Minnesota. He has until 7/10 to sign a contract. I don;t know exactly what the Knicks could offer the Wolves, but if Bjelica really wants the Knicks, he can hold off until the last day or so and try to force the Wlves' hand.
And I suspect there will be one or two minimum/near minimum salary players whose names haven't surfaced yet.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 2m2 minutes ago
Free agent I'm hearing that LeBron James would love the Cavs to sign: Chicago's Mike Dunleavy
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 56s57 seconds ago
But all the latest signals continue to stress that both Jimmy Butler and Mike Dunleavy are HIGHLY likely to be back with the Bulls
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 59s60 seconds ago
Sources: Tobias Harris would prefer not to return to the Orlando Magic and play for Scott Skiles, who previously coached him in Milwaukee.
As of yesterday, the Knicks were trying to pry him away from Minnesota. He has until 7/10 to sign a contract. I don;t know exactly what the Knicks could offer the Wolves, but if Bjelica really wants the Knicks, he can hold off until the last day or so and try to force the Wlves' hand.
And I suspect there will be one or two minimum/near minimum salary players whose names haven't surfaced yet.
Boy do I wish they could dump Calderon. Link - ( New Window )
We dont know if the Knicks can dump Calderon, Phil may be waiting to get commitments first then dump him...he may have a deal ready just in case they get commitments and need the money...
I would be ok with Grant and Galloway as the PGs going into the season..
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 59s60 seconds ago
Sources: Tobias Harris would prefer not to return to the Orlando Magic and play for Scott Skiles, who previously coached him in Milwaukee.
Just don't like the fit at this point.
If you get Jordan, i dont mind Harris because then play Melo and Harris at the 3-4 wont kill you because you have a very good defensive 5 BUT i dont know if Harris is worth the money is going to get...
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 23s24 seconds ago
Brook Lopez is expected to re-sign with the Nets. He wants to stay. Lionel Hollins & Billy King want him back & Mason Plumlee was traded.
i said that yesterday. Wade can ask for whatever he wants, but teams are just not going to be crazy bout giving out 40+ mill to a guy who plays 60 games a year and is getting older. I think MIA will end up overpaying him a bit, but if they dont i think he will have to sign a reasonable deal.
i just dont see how you can pay Wade 16 per for 3 years. 2/30 like Dan said i might be ok with, but that third year would kill me. Like i said earlier though if you sign a Jordan then bringin in Wade makes some sense. If healthy that team could do some damage in the playoffs. Especially if Grant/KP improve as the year goes on. With Melo, Wade, and Jordan we would have some very solid vets who get stuck without deals come sign on for the min if i had to guess.
is a bit overstated. He's not really an iso ball player. He is a stretch 4 that can take advantage of smaller guys in the post. He get a decent amount of point off putbacks. He is athletic enough to become a decent defender at the 4 as well. I'm not sure where he gets the perception that he plays like Melo, just look at his career high, not many of his points come for isolations.
That said, he is not as good of a passer as Monroe and therefore not as good of a fit for the triangle. At that point, its a question if you value fit over floor spacing. Link - ( New Window )
if Miami does not. He went to college over there and Jason Kidd loves savvy vets like him. They would need to clear some cap space for him, but I am sure there would be takers for OJ Mayo (Dallas for one) and can pair Zaza to go along with him.
he put up solid numbers on a crap team. He also plays average at best D which is another reason that him and Melo would be a bad fit. You would be asking Jordan to really carry the D.
Even if they use all of their cap space they will not be locked into this team...
The will be if they make shitty signings. If they Afflalo is owed $25 million in years 2-3 and is playing like a $2 million player, we're locked into him.
I'm fine giving big money deals to Aldridge, Jordan, and Monroe. But I really dont want to pay $10+ million per for guys like Afflalo, Matthews, Carroll and Green.
What team was successful paying well above MLE rates to incoming UFA role players when you didnt have a core of 2-3 stars in place already? People see teams winning with these guys making $2-3 million and think it is therefore fine to pay them $10 million. I just dont think the league works like that.
Take a bunch of fliers on $2-4 million guys. See who works, and resign them next offeseason (with cheap cap holds, so you sign better UFAs first).
one is a PF/C and one is a SF. Monroe also is an elite rebounder which Harris isnt and a better passer. He had a per of 21 vs 16 for Harris. I also think its easier to find a SF who can do what Harris can do then it is to find a big that can do what Monroe can do,.
I dont not like Harris, i dont like his fit, and im not sold on him yet.
"If you think Kyle OQuinn has some unrealized upside, and no one is offering him more than $3 million per season, why not see if you can get him on a three-year, $12 million with the mid-level?"
I am not sure if thats an accurate indication of O'Quinn's value, but if we can get Afflalo at $9million or below and give O'quinn 3 years, $12 million I would be totally alright with that.
This is assuming we strikeout on Aldridge or Jordan, which I think we will.
Darnell Mayberry
@DarnellMayberry
The Thunder has traded the contract of Luke Ridnour to Toronto along with cash to create a $2.85 million trade exception.
so I was going off of that. I guess when you are playing Aaron Gordon and Harris together, you have 2 tweeners together and assign them arbitrary positions.
im still expecting at least Bismack to get more then 5. But hey if your getting them for those costs then great, im on board. Im just saying the idea that we can get a bunch of cheap guys with upside is very unlikely. I have a feeling people are going to be "shocked" by the kind of deals guys get.
He seems to think a lot of those guys can be had for 4 or less. We know Biyambo will make less than $5.5, or else MJ would have been able to trade him. Carroll made $2.5 million x2.
But yeah, cheap guys. Im not convinced that there is a lot of consistency in the mid level of production anyway. With age, situation, scheme, etc., it's entirely likely to me that from a hand full of bargain bin guys you get one surprise starter and a good rotation guy.
at first has pretty much left me after hearing about a potential $39 million deal. If for his value we could instead get O'Quinn, Biyombo, and Gerald Green, I would not even think about Afflalo.
Darnell Mayberry
@DarnellMayberry
The Thunder has traded the contract of Luke Ridnour to Toronto along with cash to create a $2.85 million trade exception.
Good lord, this guy and Steve Blake are like pass around joints. Puff Puff now pass it on.
and advanced stats on both ends of the floor than Afflalo. He averaged more PPG than afflalo did in 19 minutes a game...
2 years ago, he averaged 16 PPG on 40% shooting. I know he has some JR Smith to him, but to get a better player than Afflalo at 1/4 the cost is a no brainer.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA 57s58 seconds ago
Yahoo Sources: Sacramento probing Kentucky's John Calipari about interest in running front office and coaching.
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard 23s24 seconds ago
Sources: After CHI offered @JimmyButler max 5/$90-plus Mon, JB postponed meeting w/LAL, BOS, PHI, DAL. JB deciding how many yrs 2 sign w/CHI
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
didn't get the QO doesn't mean he won't get 5.5. A team would have to give up something to trade for him, but now its just money. Also its Jordan we are talking about, has he ever made the right move?
Again I'm on board with Bismack. His offense is atrocious though so he def has his issues, which is why you can get him for 5-7 mill or whatever.
Im a pretty optimistic fan, but id have a real hard time dealing with a 3/38 mill deal for Afflalo. Its just such a gross overpay for a guy who doesn't even have upside, i mean he is what he is at this point.
could be a solid player, but I think Afflalo is the better player. That said id much rather sign G. Green (is he a FA?) for 5 then afflalo for 12. I really don't want to pay afflalo more then 8-9 and he is def going to get more then that.
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
You can substitute Danny or Gerald Green in that and it still would work. We can go back and forth arguing how Afflalo is a better defender despite having worse advanced numbers in every category, but that doesn't justify being paid 4 times as much as him.
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
My mistake. I still think Danny Green would be a perfect fit. No way SA can afford to keep him, he's a Long Island native who spends much of the offseason back home. I think it would be a nice move for him and us
could be a solid player, but I think Afflalo is the better player. That said id much rather sign G. Green (is he a FA?) for 5 then afflalo for 12. I really don't want to pay afflalo more then 8-9 and he is def going to get more then that.
This is a reasonable way to look at it. Gerald Green is talented but flawed. He's not better than Afflalo. But if the contract is much less, he could be the better value. The thing about Green is that every coach he's had has sent him packing. He's not easy to coach. The Knicks could really use some solid veterans in the mix and Afflalo offers that in spades.
now saying the Knicks WILL getting a meeting with Gasol, Marc Stein says Gasol won't be meeting with other teams... who is right?
with San Antonio seemingly out of the picture due to their pursuit of LMA, I would think Gasol needs another team in the running to force Memphis to go the full 5 year max.
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
My mistake. I still think Danny Green would be a perfect fit. No way SA can afford to keep him, he's a Long Island native who spends much of the offseason back home. I think it would be a nice move for him and us
Yes, they can only keep him if they don't go for LMA. And the Knicks should be picking at the edges of their roster as much as possible, too. Cory Joseph, for example.
What is clear is that teams such as the Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Milwaukee Bucks -- all of whom had designs on making a run at the Spaniard in free agency -- have essentially abandoned those plans.
The same goes for the San Antonio Spurs, who were widely believed to be the only team that had a shot at luring Gasol out of his Memphis comfort zone that dates back to his high school days when brother Pau was still playing for the Grizzlies.
What is clear is that teams such as the Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Milwaukee Bucks -- all of whom had designs on making a run at the Spaniard in free agency -- have essentially abandoned those plans.
made sense before you drafted Grant. I think Green might be gone with our without LMA. If the knicks have even thought about offering Afflalo 10+ id assume they would give it to Green and even without LMA I'm not sure SA offers Green that much money. They still have to resign Duncan, Ginobili, and Leonard and I'm guessing they would like to keep Joseph as well.
At some point, signing young guys is going to inhibit the growth of our current young guys. I might be more optimistic on Galloway than anyone else here, but he can hit 3s, can create shots, and is an active defender. I'd like to see what he can do when he isn't the primary focus of the offense. You can have Grant guard 2s and stick him on 1s on defense. I think he works out well playing alongside starting caliber NBA players. Could give us 12 points and 4 assists per game I think.
Don't think we're going to see any major moves at the stroke of midnight. Most of the top FAs have meetings Wed/Thurs. As much as I would like good news quickly, I think we will have to wait a couple of days at least! (hope I'm wrong-lol)
But that roster looks like the money was burning a hole in our pocket and we just had to spend it.
Like Monroe.
Would only like West on the cheap, which is highly unlikely.
Pass hard on Afflalo at the numbers floated.
Aminu is interesting.
Yep. Went from being "smart" about free agency this year and next to hey someone, anyone take Dolan's money. What's the plan Phil?
This is my real concern. That we treat FA like the old version of Wheel of Fortune, where the winner of every round had to spend all their winnings on the few pieces of shit that were put on the stage.
We should be focused on acquiring assets smartly. I dont really care if we havent spent our UFA bucks 3 weeks from today. You can make trades now, or go into the season under the cap and be a facilitator in a trade.
Just dont hand out untradable garbage contracts to guys exiting their prime years. That's just stupid. For once dont be the stupid money at the table.
According to Wojnarowski's report, the Kings are reportedly searching for ways to terminate Karl for "cause" and get out from under the three years and nearly $10 million they owe him guaranteed. That would be based around Karl's behind-the-scenes machinations to deal Cousins.
As one league official familiar with Ranadive's mindset told Yahoo Sports, "He's trying to find a magic button to push that'll fix everything."
According to Wojnarowski's report, the Kings are reportedly searching for ways to terminate Karl for "cause" and get out from under the three years and nearly $10 million they owe him guaranteed. That would be based around Karl's behind-the-scenes machinations to deal Cousins.
As one league official familiar with Ranadive's mindset told Yahoo Sports, "He's trying to find a magic button to push that'll fix everything."
this is like Larry Brown, Dolan, and Isiah all over again.
For those who said the 5th year would be a big deal
Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard 35s36 seconds ago
Sources: @deandrejordan6 likely to do 4-yr deal, player opt after 3, no matter where he signs. Allows him 2,capitalize on new TV $ n few yrs
ohn Calipari @UKCoachCalipari 29s29 seconds ago
For the 100th time, I have the best basketball coaching position in the world. I am not looking for any other coaching position.
towards leaving LAC? Otherwise why not sign a 5 year deal with an opt out after 3. Or it could just be broussard passing off common knowledge as some sort of rumor.
Sasha Kaun is close to signing a contract with the Nets, according to the Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union.
Kaun will have to pass the physicals before signing with the Nets.
Kaun retired from European basketball looking for a deal in the NBA.
His NBA rights are owned by the Cavaliers so if he wants to sign with the Nets he has to be traded to Brooklyn first.
"1. TRADE BORIS DIAW WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Diaw is one of the team's most important players, but started to slow down during the regular season. He signed a four-year, $28 million deal in the summer of 2014. The deal declines each season, is partially-guaranteed in Year 3 and fully unguaranteed in Year 4.
Any team with cap space that's looking for a playmaking power forward might give him a look, but the Spurs may have to attach additional draft picks and/or the rights to players the Spurs have stashed overseas to entice teams. They might still do that if it means keeping Splitter. Diaw turns 33 and could see his production nosedive on a different team."
2. TRADE TIAGO SPLITTER WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Splitter has value as one of the league's top defensive centers, but struggled with a calf injury last year. He has two years and just under $17 million left on his deal, which is excellent value if he stays healthy, but that's a big if. He's also turning 31 next season and would become somewhat redundant if the Spurs sign Aldridge.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
2016 $3M guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 6/30/16
2017 non-guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 7/15/17
$500k unlikely incentives (meets certain weight requirements throughout the season)
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on Oct. 25
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on the first Tuesday after the All-Star Game
$200,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on April 1
Source: PBT
2. TRADE TIAGO SPLITTER WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Splitter has value as one of the league's top defensive centers, but struggled with a calf injury last year. He has two years and just under $17 million left on his deal, which is excellent value if he stays healthy, but that's a big if. He's also turning 31 next season and would become somewhat redundant if the Spurs sign Aldridge.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
I would take Splitter. 50-50 on Diaw - would have to be a good package. Diaw is solid but has 2 years left before a team option in 2017. Don't want to get into another Calderon situation.
2016 $3M guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 6/30/16
2017 non-guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 7/15/17
$500k unlikely incentives (meets certain weight requirements throughout the season)
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on Oct. 25
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on the first Tuesday after the All-Star Game
$200,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on April 1
Source: PBT
2. TRADE TIAGO SPLITTER WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Splitter has value as one of the league's top defensive centers, but struggled with a calf injury last year. He has two years and just under $17 million left on his deal, which is excellent value if he stays healthy, but that's a big if. He's also turning 31 next season and would become somewhat redundant if the Spurs sign Aldridge.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
I would take Splitter. 50-50 on Diaw - would have to be a good package. Diaw is solid but has 2 years left before a team option in 2017. Don't want to get into another Calderon situation.
Sounds like Diaw only has 3 million guaranteed if waived after this upcoming season
2. TRADE TIAGO SPLITTER WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Splitter has value as one of the league's top defensive centers, but struggled with a calf injury last year. He has two years and just under $17 million left on his deal, which is excellent value if he stays healthy, but that's a big if. He's also turning 31 next season and would become somewhat redundant if the Spurs sign Aldridge.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
I would take Splitter. 50-50 on Diaw - would have to be a good package. Diaw is solid but has 2 years left before a team option in 2017. Don't want to get into another Calderon situation.
Sounds like Diaw only has 3 million guaranteed if waived after this upcoming season
Yea didn't know that when I originally posted that haha
When the Cavs were looking for a Center post Varejao injury, they viewed Mozgov and Koufos as roughly on the same tier and had comparable trade offers out for both, but neither team bit. They then threw in an extra pick for Mozgov because they were desperate and he was under contract for an extra year than Koufos. They are very arguably on the same tier as players, when they were on the same team Koufos even started ahead of him
Sure I take Diaw. That's a smart move IMO. Hell, if we need the cap space next year we can trade Diaw, $3 million, and an asset (a #2, extra $400k) to a rebuilding team. They cut Diaw, no cost to them, pocket a little something for their trouble.
is going to be signed as team President for $20m a year for 10 years when he is done. Watch
I think they sell him a 10% stake in the team. Price will be a little cheap, but not outrageous. They will lend him the money on very easy terms, backed only by his stake in the team. With a little bit here and there on such a deal, you can easily give a guy $100 million effectively under the table.
Is that when Marc Gasol, the DPOY caliber big that he is, went to he bench.... Not only did the Grizzlies not suffer defensively with Koufos behind him, they were actually much better. They played to a 96.8 defensive rating this season in 1,348 minutes with Koufos on the floor, which is pretty ridiculous. Damn near 10 points better than league average.
In a lot of ways I view Koufos in the same boat as a Marcin Gortat a few years back, when he was backing up Dwight Howard. He is overshadowed by the guy in front of him, but he's more than capable of being a very serviceable starter
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania 8m8 minutes ago
Free agent pursuing the Miami Heat 2-guard spot if Dwyane Wade leaves: Monta Ellis, sources tell RealGM. Sides plan to discuss July visit.
Ian Begley @IanBegley 1m1 minute ago
Don't think the money will work but #Knicks are among teams on Wes Matthews' radar in free agency, sources w/knowledge of his thinking say.
and can hit a baseline J. For all those who were cracking the whole "fit" thing, DJ doesn't fit as well as Koufos does, and has shown he could flash just as much defensive prowess. And hit FTs. As highly touted as DJ is, the Clippers had a middle of the pack defense, despite having better defenders than we do in Chris Paul and Matt barnes.
is coming off injury. I can't imagine he's going to be able to demand a salary. I am sure his agent will try but I am pretty sure he's going to be disappointed to see what the market is for his services. He's not a star player that can demand money no matter where he goes.
Free agent DeAndre Jordan is likely looking to sign a four-year deal that allows him to opt out after three seasons, which would nullify the Los Angeles Clippers' advantage in keeping the center, sources told ESPN on Tuesday.
The Clippers could offer Jordan a deal that includes a fifth year worth $27 million.
but I'm not sure he's a legitimate superstar either. He's a rebounding machine and an alley oop guy, but you don't really want to have the guy in your top 3 of payroll when he doesn't score, and isn't a game-changer on defense.
Free agent DeAndre Jordan is likely looking to sign a four-year deal that allows him to opt out after three seasons, which would nullify the Los Angeles Clippers' advantage in keeping the center, sources told ESPN on Tuesday.
The Clippers could offer Jordan a deal that includes a fifth year worth $27 million.
This is an interesting dynamic this year. The same is true for Gasol and LMA. The extra year the home teams have is not as big a draw when the cap is about to blow up. Even Melo is gonna look pretty affordable at the end of his deal.
overpaying for someone like Monroe because he's fairly young and should be worth it in the long run, but I am not overpaying Arron Afflalo and Wesley Matthews.
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 1m1 minute ago
Also hearing rumblings that Arron Afflalo is open to--and may ultimately seek--a short term contract that frees him in a year or two.
Alan Hahn @alanhahn 32s32 seconds ago
Don't be surprised if the #Knicks wind up with short-term deals on players. Gives both parties flexibility in the rising cap era.
Free agent DeAndre Jordan is likely looking to sign a four-year deal that allows him to opt out after three seasons, which would nullify the Los Angeles Clippers' advantage in keeping the center, sources told ESPN on Tuesday.
The Clippers could offer Jordan a deal that includes a fifth year worth $27 million.
This is an interesting dynamic this year. The same is true for Gasol and LMA. The extra year the home teams have is not as big a draw when the cap is about to blow up. Even Melo is gonna look pretty affordable at the end of his deal.
The cap exploding presents a different dynamic for DJ than the other two. Gasol and LMA will both be 30 at the start of the season so if they did a 3 year deal like DJ, they'd be looking for another deal as they (likely) start declining. DJ in 3 years will likely be towards the tail end of his prime but still playing at a high enough level for one more big payday.
Wouldnt it be funny if every GM got smart at the same time
and the middle class got frozen out of stupid money contracts?
Seems like there are fewer dumb organizations across all sports these days. I was just thinking about it in the NHL, where so many teams are successfully building by bottoming out for a few seasons.
Alan Hahn @alanhahn 35s35 seconds ago
Basketball IQ is a top priority for #Knicks in their free agency quest. Don't look for names, look for intelligence. #learners
Alan Hahn @alanhahn 35s35 seconds ago
Basketball IQ is a top priority for #Knicks in their free agency quest. Don't look for names, look for intelligence. #learners
These are actual quotes from various scouts on KP--these came right before the draft. I saw some of these quotes in the week or two leading up to the draft and one or two of these had me hopeful the Knicks would draft this kid. Seeing 15 or so of them has me even more excited that we did draft this kid...
Quote:
Scott Roth, KP's former head coach at Sevilla: "He handled himself really well. He's very mature for his age. He has a great family and a base around him. He's a great, humble kid who's a worker. He's very competitive. He has a lot of intensity and competitive fight in him. That's the most critical component to his success in my opinion."
Roth: "He's going to make open shots. You're going to have to guard him from 15 feet to the 3-point line. His stroke is great. I had Dirk as a rookie. Dirk had more range. But the fluidity and grace of the shot is Dirk-like. He's athletic enough to run the floor. He's deceivingly good as a weak side shot blocker. He's actually very good down in the post. He just doesn't have the strength to maintain his position in the paint. And maybe most importantly, no one will out work him."
NBA GM: "I was watching him warm up and had flashbacks to when I saw Pau Gasol take the floor for the first time in Spain, only this kid is much more athletic than Gasol and plays with that same fluidity. I've been asking my team since then: Are you sure he's not the No. 1 guy? Are these guys in college really better than him?"
Long-time NBA scout: "[Saying they're more] established has nothing to do with [drafting the top Americans over KP]. That's code for, 'I won't get fired if I draft Okafor and he turns into Greg Oden. But I will get fired if Porzingis is the next Darko.'"
Roth:"Most of the international guys that busted didn't love the game. They failed because of a lack of passion and work ethic. It was convenient for them to come over and make a lot of money. Zinger's more in the Dirk mode, in that you can't get him out of the gym. He's also more in the Gasol mode, because he's so skilled. I hate to throw Dirk's name out there so flippantly. He's been so great. I don't think anyone thought when we drafted him he'd be this great. Zinger has some characteristics of Pau. Some of Dirk. But what he becomes? I can't tell you. But I don't think he'll be a bust. At worst he's a really good player. At best, a potential all-star. He's just too skilled, and too competitive to fail."
Long-time NBA GM: "Throw a Kentucky or a Duke jersey on him and you're in a heated debate about who is No. 1 in this draft. He has Dirk's shooting ability and moves and Kirilenko's athleticism. Think about it. What if Dirk had been a better athlete and defender? What if Kirilenko was four or five inches taller and could shoot it? That doesn't come along in the draft every year. I'm not sure it's ever come along in the draft."
NBA GM who had previously been critical of KP's weight/body: "His upper body needs a lot of work, but actually his lower body is pretty good. And for a player like him, that's the half of the body that matters defensively. It could get better, but it's not bad like I thought it was. In a couple of years, it's not going to be an issue."
Roth: "I had Gasol as a rookie in Memphis. They have the same body structure. It's a work in progress. It's not going to be totally fixed in six months. He's going to be 22 or 23 when he gets 20 or 30 pounds. But once his body catches up, he's going to be a monster."
Roth: "I've been around a lot of Europeans; things like passion or the ability for him to make the transition, it's not an issue with him. You put him in competitive situations he'll play as hard as anyone. He got beat up a lot. His competitive fire is as high as anyone. You just don't see 7-1 guys who love to play like he does. You have to kick him out of the gym. He knows the NBA. It's a passion and love for him and that will vault him into being a great player in the NBA."
NBA GM on why KP can't go first overall: "I just think Towns is the best player in the draft. I'm not sure Minnesota knows that yet, but I think they will be the end of the process. And if they don't, it's because Flip [Saunders] fell in love with Okafor."
Long-time international scout: "He's my favorite player in this draft. I keep telling my staff: This one is not like other international players. He's the real deal. He's special in all the ways a player can be special. He just needs to get stronger. That's it. He's going to be a big-time pro."
Western Conference executive: The kid can flat-out shoot. Now hes really, really thin, but hes athletic. A 7-footer who can step out and hit 3s is something.
Bobby Marks, former BKN Asst. GM: Id take Porzingis at four. Then Im talking to the fans and the media about how the team is going to be built going forward. Id make sure the pressure on Porzingis is not too high, and I think that hes a piece of the puzzle.
Fran Fraschilla: If youre picking four, youre essentially gambling. I dont know how you can come up with a better gamble than a guy thats 7-feet-1 on his way to 7-2, whos athletic, graceful, shoots the ball from 3, blocks shots and is 19 years old. I get the idea of the buzz factor, but after Okafor, Towns and Russell are gone, you might as well gamble and draft a kid who potentially could be along the lines of Dirk Nowitzki, (Pau) Gasol, (Andrei) Kirilenko. Hes a graceful player. His English is great. Hes a basketball junkie.
Gregg Polinsky, BKN Dir. of Player Personnel: Hes got a chance to be very good. The body is not there yet; hes very thin. Everyone talks about how he shoots the basketball, but what separates him is hes really competitive. Hes so skinny yet hes willing to take a pounding. Most guys built like that are not. He has that special quality mentally to go along with a skill thats valued in our league.
Chris Ekstrand, NBA consultant: Youre talking about a league that values speed and shooting ability. You dont see Charles Oakley and Dale Davis and Otis Thorpe anymore, so hes not going to have to play those types. Its made for a stretch-4, guys who are tall and can shoot away from the basket. Thats what Porzingis does.
Larry Sanders, former Pistons trainer, current Sevilla trainer: "When you grow (as fast Kris has), your body has a whole new neural field, basically. Your body doesn't really know where it is in space, so it's really hard to take contact or deliver contact when your body doesn't really know where you are. So for him, we had to get him used to his body before we could work on getting him stronger. Any kind of excess weight is just not functional. You try to make the body as efficient a machine as possible."
Sanders: "If you notice, he jumps really well off of both his right and left legs independently. That's not by accident. His core is unbelievable. At the beginning of the season, I could get leverage on him and all of that. But toward the end of the season, he learned how to absorb contact and not only hold his ground, but also hold his ground to where he could change direction."
Sanders: "When I was with the Pistons, we were doing pre-draft workouts and looking into John Henson. With him, his ratio of shoulder-to-hip is smaller than his hips. He didn't have much room to grow. With Kris, it's opposite. He has track legs and has a built lower body to go with broader shoulders."
Eastern Conference GM: I think there is a strong chance he lands in the top four picks. The Lakers, Knicks and 76ers are all possible options. He has the length and athleticism of Andrei Kirilenko and stroke and footwork like Dirk Nowitzki. He will be the best prospect in this draft while also having the best upside.
A different Eastern Conference GM: Hes really good and I think he should be in the conversation at No. 2."
5/15/15
NBA GM: "He could go two. He's that good. Nobody says anything bad about him."
NBA Head of Basketball Operations: "I think he's a lock for the top five and I wouldn't be surprised to see him go as high as top three. He's good. We all like to do our comparables. He's like Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol...I'd take him ahead of (Jahlil) Okafor."
A former NBA Executive of the Year: If the draft was one year from now, I think Porzingis goes No. 1. Hes just not fully formed yet and thats getting in the way of peoples decisions. But one more year, and I think it would be him and then [Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell and Okafor].
NBA GM: If Karl Towns doesnt turn out, you could survive that. If Porzingis is a bust, youre probably getting canned.
Maybe just maybe we look back at those two annoying wins down the stretch of the season as the best thing this franchise ever did. If the Knicks lose those games and end up picking 1-2 maybe they don't take KP. Maybe they take Oke if Philly takes Mudiay...who knows...but I can't wait to see what this kid can do over the next few years. Fans have been so negative calling in to espn and fan..blaming the team for winning 2 games down the stretch, they are losing sight of what this team finally has here...two young talents in Grant and KP and a star scorer in Melo...we finally have hope.
on the air waves lately and I just can't see why fans aren't more hopeful and excited about the future. This young talent combo of Grant and KP...we have NEVER had a day like this in draft history going back to the 80! Never! Maybe these guys bust but how any fan can focus on bad luck lottery shit or winning two games down the stretch or MElo's window...just amazing to me. Further validates my belief that fans like to be miserable. The media serves it up and so many fans suck it up.
I'm sure i'm setting myself up for misery but I am so pumped about the Knicks right now. Seems I am not alone on BBI...Just do yourself a favor and turn the radio down because it will damper your mood before too long.
thanks for the post. Really gets my hyped up for him. I hope he is able to get healthy and play in Summer League. If not, thats alright. Isn't he going to be playing in some European competition later this summer?
"You dont see Charles Oakley and Dale Davis and Otis Thorpe anymore"
they all have the same exact thing to stay. Stephen A. Smith, Mike and Mike, Broussard, Cowherd, etc. etc. Not one mentions the type of prospect KP is, or even talks about the whole thought process behind the pick. Yeah, I get its cool to make of of Phil jackson nowadays, but its not like hes some fuck that's making irrational decisions. Did you not think that Phil expected this sort of reaction from unknowledgable basketball fans and media? Move past that and try analyzing it on a deeper approach.
Ryen Russillo and Chad Ford respected the decision. Amin Al-Hassan, a former EXECUTIVE, said it was the best think the Knicks could've done. I'm starting to get sick of it.
I may be holding him a bit higher now that he is a Knick, but I got pretty scared on him a few days before the draft, maybe even irrationally so. I wouldn't set the bar at Dirk or Pau and analyze him from the standard. All players are different to an extent, and he is about as different from any player I have seen as can be, for better or worse. It's a unique, mysterious situation and I just want to see for myself instead of speculating what he is going to become.
Anyone who can shoot like that has a chance to be a special
Besides, he brings three things in rare combination: the shooting, the ridiculous height, and quickness/agility. That is an amazing place to start from, even for next year.
Yes, he will get pushed around under the boards and on defense, but who is going to guard him? PFs will want no part of going out to his shooting range and trying to chase him.
Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA 48s48 seconds ago
Dallas, New York, Chicago, Cleveland and, of course, Houston are among the teams interested in Patrick Beverley (@patbev21), per sources.
Bargs was so much stronger and seems to be more skilled at the same stage. But you can tell that Porzingis is a much more fluid athlete with better balance.
Bargs is such a sloth these days but his Euro highlights were damn impressive. There's a reason he went #1. I'd say Bargs was a better prospect than KP at the same stage, but KP is a better athlete which could help him translate into the NBA better.
with EVERY decent free agent. Just like the fateful summer of 2010! It's really going to be deja vu when I'm sitting on the beach this weekend checking twitter every 90 seconds.
but he did have seasons where he averaged 17, 19.5 and 21 PPG. Say what you want about his defense and rebounding, but everyone knew about those flaws going in and he did not really have the athleticism to improve upon those things.
While none of the advanced stats say anything good about him, when we talk about busts, we talk about Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams. I'd hardly consider him in the same breath as those guys. If you're telling me KPs absolute floor is a 37% 3 point shooting stretch big that can give at least average defense and 15 PPG, I'll take it.
But Bargs was a net-negative player and everyone realized that despite the PPG numbers. Even when he was dropping 20 a game for the Raptors, he was hurting the team because of everything else he absolutely sucked at.
So while a guy like Anthony Bennett provided 0 value for his team, Bargnani provied a ton of negative value for his team because he played so much and so poorly.
That's the argument for Bargs as an all-time bust.
Bargs did not reach his potential for a number of reasons
You have to really want it in the NBA, and by all accounts he didnt. He was also coddled even though Sam Mitchell wanted to ride him; had he not received kid gloves treatment his defense and maybe rebounding would have been better. He was a stretch 4 (really a 3 in a big's body) miscast as a center because Bosh wasnt really a center either.
But in any event, they're very different players. And so much of getting from great prospect to greatness is mental: will and work ethic.
compared to KP, which is why I am not as worried about things like running the floor, team defense, and moving off the ball. There was an expectation for Bargs to develop into a sort of player that Kevin Love ended up becoming; sure, he's unathletic, but Love was able to develop into a highly efficient, team-oriented player that could at least rebound even if he couldn't provide anything on defense. Bargs never came close to that.
narrative, it's "during the summer [of '08] he worked hard on his body, putting up some more weight (adding some 15 pounds of muscle)". The next season, his stats jumped from 10 ppg to 15 ppg and he shot 40% from 3. He was listed as 225 on draft net and is now at 245.
I think the focus is on KP to gain that type of weight now. It looks like he's never really lifted heavy before, so I wouldn't think it would be ridiculous for him to be even 10 pounds heavier at the start of this season, as skinny guys tend to balloon up in the first few months of actual lifting.
But the stereotyping and profiling of euro prospects is just so silly. They are where black qbs were post Warren Moon and pre Mcnabb from a perception standpoint. And it's really silly, because there have been a ton of European impact players and several all stars. People want to make a big deal about the recent drought of euro lotto prospects becoming all stars (even though several non lotto euro prospects have made all star games in that time, and several more are on their way), but that has nothing whatsoever to do with each individual case. Sometimes things just happen randomly. Duke had a run of iffy prospects, then things changed a bit. Jeff tedford qbs sucked, then came Aaron Rodgers. And the book is not out yet on some of those lotto picks who haven't been all stars
But the stereotyping and profiling of euro prospects is just so silly. They are where black qbs were post Warren Moon and pre Mcnabb from a perception standpoint. And it's really silly, because there have been a ton of European impact players and several all stars. People want to make a big deal about the recent drought of euro lotto prospects becoming all stars
Exactly. How many top 5-10-20 picks every year become all-stars? Not many. Otherwise every team would be dripping with them. A lot more guys fail in the NBA than succeed.
still believe Darko could have been a difference maker at the NBA level. I can't blame it all on Larry Brown because Darko isn't even playing in Europe (he's kickboxing) but of the Euro busts we hear mentioned I really don't think Darko was a bust due to scouting. His "gifts" were legit.
lottery Euros have sucked as bad as they have over the past 10 years is absolutely relevant imo. Especially since so many non-Lottery Euros have developed into legit players.
Makes me think that the NBA scouting of Int'l prospects is still lacking because the guys we expect to be stars are busts and the guys we expect to be JAGs turn out to be valuable players more often than the lottery guys.
I definitely buy that aspect of it. It's a lot tougher to get a gauge on these guys even if you make a concerted effort to have an organizational presence overseas. An added barrier is that many are barely even playing for their teams in Europe when they are draft age, because unlike American college players they are in leagues with grown men
I think you have to take the lottery euros on a case by case basis.
lottery Euros have sucked as bad as they have over the past 10 years is absolutely relevant imo. Especially since so many non-Lottery Euros have developed into legit players.
I think a lot of that also has to do with high draft pick Euro's typically are coming over immediately; lower picks get time to develop there before coming over.
But the stereotyping and profiling of euro prospects is just so silly. Jeff tedford qbs sucked, then came Aaron Rodgers. And the book is not out yet on some of those lotto picks who haven't been all stars
I totally agree. The odd thing is Mario Hezonja wasn't painted with the same brush... it's only tall white Europeans who're supposed to be "the next Dirk Nowitzki". However, I would like to SEE Zingis play well before being told how great he is.
have been so good up to a point where they have been taken in the lottery. Does that mean if KP went 15th, you suddenly bring up the list of all the recent non-lottery euros and say he is going to be great? No.
You take the damn player where he is supposed to go. His success is not dependant on where he was taken in the draft.
There's been so many Euro's that have been making noise recently, I don't get the whole xenophobia thing. Mirotic, Giannis, Dragic, Pekovic, Schroder. Enough with the few busts over the last 20 years that have been making a bad name for the many that have broken onto the scene recently.
There are many issues I have with the misleading nature....
Of that lotto european stat espn kept giving out all draft coverage. But in addition to the fact that non lotto guys have thrived, I also dont know why we have to separate Europeans from foreign players in general. Yao among went 1st overall and was a terrific nba player, and if anything coming from china is an even bigger/tougher transition than coming from Europe.
I think the difference is that its easy to "see" Hezonja play in the NBA. He is a shooter that fits an existing mold in terms of height and athleticism.
With KP, its hard to see how he fits because there is really no precedent for him. His weight is the biggest thing that scares people away, but if you think about an athletic 7'2" player with a 7'6 wingspan that can hit 3s and block shots, there's some sort of "too good to be true" aspect that also scares people away.
KP is as unique as they come, and people area always hesitant on the "unique" players. Jan Vesley was seen as unique with his combination of size, athleticism, and ball handling. But so was Kevin Durant. Its that mysterious aspect that I think scares people off.
Throw Gobert in as a guy who is on his way to being a beast. He can win a DPOY some day. I think Valencunas of the Raps is destined for a productive 12+ year career and could sneak his way onto an all star team or two. If Gallinari can ever stay healthy I think he could be euro rashard Lewis, late last year he had a 47 point game and was showing signs of rounding into form. We are both just going off the top of out heads here with young players (or young-ish in the case of Gallinari), there are a ton of guys. The league is pushing 30% foreign as a whole
significantly higher than that of American born players?
I can't imagine it is. There are a shitload of busts in every draft, most of whom are black Americans. It's basically restricted to tall white guys and the "next Dirk" thing/style of play. I think not seeing these players has a major effect too. For example, no one is going to be screaming bust when Domantas Sabonis turns pro.
and should be made between Euro's and other foreigners. It definitely tells you something about the competition level the prospect was facing. Obviously the better the competition, the easier it is to evaluate a player.
Rather than lumping all foreign players together, ESPN should go the other way and do a break down based on players coming from the different Euro leagues.
Is that non-Euro lottery picks sometimes fail, but often become mega-stars. Realistically speaking, what Euro's besides Nowitzki and Gasol are mega-stars?
If history holds, you are betting that your Euro lottery pick ends up being at best a complementary fringe starter or role player. At worst, he becomes a complete bust.
History changes. I'm just not sure I'd take that chance.
significantly higher than that of American born players?
I can't imagine it is. There are a shitload of busts in every draft, most of whom are black Americans. It's basically restricted to tall white guys and the "next Dirk" thing/style of play. I think not seeing these players has a major effect too. For example, no one is going to be screaming bust when Domantas Sabonis turns pro.
A lot of it is perception. Many NBA fans at least casually follow CBB so they've seen most of the top prospects from CBB dominate at that level and partly expect them to continue that performance at the next level. So as the scouts/GM in that blog post above regarding Porz point out, if you miss on an American CBB prospect, you try again. If you're the GM that misses on one of these Euros (who most fans haven't heard of until "draft season"), you lose your job.
significantly higher than that of American born players?
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
The talent pool for American players is significantly larger, so the odds of an American being a star are a lot higher. It's pointless to bring that into the equation.
Is that non-Euro lottery picks sometimes fail, but often become mega-stars. Realistically speaking, what Euro's besides Nowitzki and Gasol are mega-stars?
If history holds, you are betting that your Euro lottery pick ends up being at best a complementary fringe starter or role player. At worst, he becomes a complete bust.
History changes. I'm just not sure I'd take that chance.
But what percentage of american born players drafted have become megastars? Do the 2 stars mentioned above out of a smaller total pool stack up percentage-wise?
Is that non-Euro lottery picks sometimes fail, but often become mega-stars. Realistically speaking, what Euro's besides Nowitzki and Gasol are mega-stars?
If history holds, you are betting that your Euro lottery pick ends up being at best a complementary fringe starter or role player. At worst, he becomes a complete bust.
History changes. I'm just not sure I'd take that chance.
But what percentage of american born players drafted have become megastars? Do the 2 stars mentioned above out of a smaller total pool stack up percentage-wise?
significantly higher than that of American born players?
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
The talent pool for American players is significantly larger, so the odds of an American being a star are a lot higher. It's pointless to bring that into the equation.
How is it pointless to point out that none of the most hyped Euro prospects ended up doing much?
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
The talent pool for American players is significantly larger, so the odds of an American being a star are a lot higher. It's pointless to bring that into the equation.
How is it pointless to point out that none of the most hyped Euro prospects ended up doing much?
I didn't say that part was pointless. I said it was pointless to relate it to American stars, when you usually have 2 or 3 Europeans considered lottery talents yet you have 4 times as many American players considered lottery talents.
lottery Euros have sucked as bad as they have over the past 10 years is absolutely relevant imo. Especially since so many non-Lottery Euros have developed into legit players.
Makes me think that the NBA scouting of Int'l prospects is still lacking because the guys we expect to be stars are busts and the guys we expect to be JAGs turn out to be valuable players more often than the lottery guys.
Who are you talking about? The lottery Euros over the last 10 drafts (exclusive of 2015) are:
2011 - #3 Kanter, #5 JV on Toronto (both 20+ PER last season)); #6 Vesely looks like a bust, just like American #2 D. Williams. My recollection was that this was considered a 4 player draft, with the first two, Williams and Irving (Thompson was a surprise at #4, and I dont really like his game).
2009 - Rubio #5. I'd argue injury has played a huge role here, but part of the problem was shooting that everyone knew would always be a problem. Not a bust at ~15 PER (see, e.g., #2 Thabeet and #6 Johnny Flynn).
2008 - #6 Gallo. But for the back injury I think he's a better version of Peja. Better than #7-9 picks Gordon, Alexander, and Augustin.
2006 - #1 Bargs. Not an all star but there have been more disappointing #1s. Horrible top 5 outside of Aldridge -- hello Morrison, Ty Thomas, and Shelden Williams!
2005 - #11 Vazquez never came over. #12 Korolev I guess is a bust, but really #11-16 were all <10 win share players. It's the late lottery.
Overall, I dont think lottery Euros have been so bad over the last 10 drafts. No superstars, but only one top 2 pick, and that in a horrible draft. Rubio and Gallo have turned into okay players despite injuries, and as mid lottery picks that's really fine. The two 2011 guys look pretty good.
Serviceable might be selling short, though. there are many knowledgeable basketball people who feel he is a star in the making. Will he be a star in year 1? Probably not. But, how many are. he certainly sounds like a guy they can build with to win while Anthony is still here.
so you are banking on your lottery Euro being at best a servicable guy.
huh? Why restrict it to the lottery? Considering so few are drafted in the lottery (especially the high lottery) it's a completely arbitrary end point.
I hear you and don't completely disagree. But, with so many people talking him up, and this goes back to before the draft, I feel a lot better. This isn't Frederic Weiss. This is a much more talented and polished player who actually played against decent competition. The point is, I don't think Phil views this pick as a reach and neither do a lot of other people.
and cringe when there are actually analysts that made that comment.
My take would just be that if you were looking for a big Euro who could pass well and have a decent perimeter shot, then those guys exist at pick 34. If you are drafting on potential, hell, Winslow has the potential to be a future HOF. He also has a potential to be a bust.
I guess what I'd say based on history is that even the top Euro's potential seems to top out at decent, reliable, complementary player.
But the stereotyping and profiling of euro prospects is just so silly. They are where black qbs were post Warren Moon and pre Mcnabb from a perception standpoint. And it's really silly, because there have been a ton of European impact players and several all stars. People want to make a big deal about the recent drought of euro lotto prospects becoming all stars (even though several non lotto euro prospects have made all star games in that time, and several more are on their way), but that has nothing whatsoever to do with each individual case. Sometimes things just happen randomly. Duke had a run of iffy prospects, then things changed a bit. Jeff tedford qbs sucked, then came Aaron Rodgers. And the book is not out yet on some of those lotto picks who haven't been all stars
Especially when these guys are in the NBA currently
Dirk, Parker, Ibaka (African I get it), Gortat, Gobert, Pau and Marc Gasol, Dragic, Mirotic, Greek Freak, Vucevic (yes played some college ball), Batum, Gallo etc etc. There are dozens of international players in the NBA who are having/will have better careers than most of the lotto picks.
does a player being picked in the lottery have to do with anything? Do we suddenly throw out a guy like Dragic (a top 10 NBA PG because he "wasn't lottery"? Ibaka? Koufas? Pekovic? Mirotic? Fournier? Greek Freak doesn't count because he went 15th?
as you see, there aren't enough Euro's to make a statistically significant estimate to say that the odds are against them being stars. Why look only at the lottery? You can't say "oh, if we pick him in the lottery, he has a worse chance of being a star". That throws everything about scouting out the window.
We can't use examples like Giannis or Kanter or Gobert yet to say they are All-star caliber players yet, so that creates a biased argument against KP becoming a star. All 3 of those guys are below 23 and are nowhere close to their respective ceilings. Gobert can become a perennial All-Defensive player candidate, Kanter has flashed signs of being a 20 and 10 guy, and Giannis has all the makings of being a transcendent player.
silly to just lump in "euros" it's like saying a guy playing well in AA at 19 is the same as a guy playing well in indy ball. Not all "euro leagues" are the same level of play.
does a player being picked in the lottery have to do with anything? Do we suddenly throw out a guy like Dragic (a top 10 NBA PG because he "wasn't lottery"? Ibaka? Koufas? Pekovic? Mirotic? Fournier? Greek Freak doesn't count because he went 15th?
That's what I'm saying. So should all the times let KP slide so he had a better shot of becoming good if he went 11 picks later? Fuck no. Dumbass argument.
is that it doesnt take into consideration strength of the prospect. I'll grant you that there was a time more than a decade ago that Euros were getting overdrafted -- notably it was the same era as prep-to-pros going high too.
But in the last 10 years you've had one Euro taken in the top 2 picks -- Bargs. Aldridge turned out better, but the bigger issue is that it was a HORRIFIC top of the draft. Kanter was a #3 pick, again in a weak draft, and I'd rather have him that Thompson, Knight, Kemba or Jimmer -- the next American players to go. The top 3 -- that's where superstars tend to come from.
So what should the Knicks have done? The next picks were another Euro (Hezonja), non-superstar potential guy WCS, and Mudiay (great Chinese league track record?). Stanimal is going to be a superstar? Frank the Tank? Everyone's in love with Justice Winslow. Except the 9 GMs who passed on him.
So we should have skipped over the 4th best prospect because people from the continent he comes from who get picked much lower and/or in crappy drafts have not been all around superstars? For guys like the #10 pick. Got it.
is that it doesnt take into consideration strength of the prospect. I'll grant you that there was a time more than a decade ago that Euros were getting overdrafted -- notably it was the same era as prep-to-pros going high too.
But in the last 10 years you've had one Euro taken in the top 2 picks -- Bargs. Aldridge turned out better, but the bigger issue is that it was a HORRIFIC top of the draft. Kanter was a #3 pick, again in a weak draft, and I'd rather have him that Thompson, Knight, Kemba or Jimmer -- the next American players to go. The top 3 -- that's where superstars tend to come from.
So what should the Knicks have done? The next picks were another Euro (Hezonja), non-superstar potential guy WCS, and Mudiay (great Chinese league track record?). Stanimal is going to be a superstar? Frank the Tank? Everyone's in love with Justice Winslow. Except the 9 GMs who passed on him.
So we should have skipped over the 4th best prospect because people from the continent he comes from who get picked much lower and/or in crappy drafts have not been all around superstars? For guys like the #10 pick. Got it.
This is a MAJOR issue I have with people who hated the pick. I wanted Mudiay the most (because I strongly feel we need an upgrade at PG and I think the FA market is pathetic). I didn't expect to pick up grant and I had Zinger as my #2 want. All of that said... who did we pass on that makes gambling on a 7'3 kid with 3 point range, who can run, who loves the game etc etc the wrong move? I didn't even love Okafor and yet, if the Knicks passed on an Okafor or a Russell... I would understand the outrage. Mudiay has many of the same concerns (though I think odds are he has a better rookie season than Zinger). The Knicks took the BPA and they should be commended.
Why is Miami being crowned the winner of this draft? I don't think personally that Winslow is better than Frank or Stanley, but it should say something that even with the choice between Stanley and Winslow, Stan van gundy still chose Winslow over him, and Charlotte did not only pass on a 6 pick offer for their pick, they went with Frank over Winslow. The Magic chose Hezonja over Winslow and Denver, a team that its in a perfect position to take BPA, went with Mudiay over Winslow as well. So there were 5 teams that were given the opportunity to take the best guy on the board, and each of the 5 teams passed up on him.
Everyone assumes that Miami gets the best out of their drafted rookies, but since Wade, how many of these guys succeeded? Beasley? Chalmers? Cole. I'd wait before we call Winslow a "steal"
Porzingas could be a true difference maker. Virtually none of the guys taken after him have that kind of potential. The worst thing an NBA team can be is reliably decent, in 48 win purgatory.
I wasn't in favor of the pick at the time, but I'm warming up to it.
One reason is, I've seen how quick he is inside dunking over players. Another is that he already has a quick release on his jump shot. At 230, he can put on 10-15 pounds fairly soon and earn some playing time. He does need more weight to play major minutes, but he should be able to contribute at some point in this season.
RE: I'd rather gamble on greatness than take a safer, lower ceiling guy
Porzingas could be a true difference maker. Virtually none of the guys taken after him have that kind of potential. The worst thing an NBA team can be is reliably decent, in 48 win purgatory.
This. The other gambles on greatness were the next two picks -- a Euro and a kid who barely played in China last year.
Is anyone inside the league criticizing the pick? You hear fans (who essentially dont know the player) and media members (same, and particularly biased to not cover rebuilding teams). But has any talent evaluator said "he aint it"? I
person I hear trash KP was Dan Dakich, who coached half a year at IU as an interim coach and bowling green for 10 years. He said that KP doesn't "have good eyes", and that he can tell who is going to be a good player by how "good their eyes are". Don't know if I buy that as a scouting report.
person I hear trash KP was Dan Dakich, who coached half a year at IU as an interim coach and bowling green for 10 years. He said that KP doesn't "have good eyes", and that he can tell who is going to be a good player by how "good their eyes are". Don't know if I buy that as a scouting report.
RealGM @RealGM 21m21 minutes ago
Derrick Williams To Receive Interest From Kings, Wizards, Rockets, Lakers, Heat, Suns, Knicks
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 28m28 minutes ago
Source: Knicks have some interest in Paul Millsap, but his possible price range of $17-19 million per season would be too high for New York.
doesn't that mean we could technically add a second, near max contract? Not that I see another player worthy of giving it to, unless of course it's deandre and Monroe, which negates the whole deandre a s a second option selling point.
If Afflalo could dumb down his demands to $8-10 million we could squeeze koufos in there for around $6-7 million. I'm afraid koufos will get offered more than that, however, and I'd priortize him over Afflalo. I'd let the market play out for Afflalo as I'd be truly astonished if he got more than $10 million by another team. Portland possibly gives him that, but what other team is going to come up with an offer like that?
doesn't that mean we could technically add a second, near max contract? Not that I see another player worthy of giving it to, unless of course it's deandre and Monroe, which negates the whole deandre a s a second option selling point.
Berger didn't mention it, but the cap increase would also increase the max contract amounts. So I don't think it gives them the ability to sign a second mac player.
Monroe and Knicks deal could get done quickly according to what he is hearing...
If that's true, it tells me that Phil already has a trade lined up for Calderon if need be. Why bother meeting with Jordan and Aldridge if he already knows he is going to be giving more than half of the cap room to Monroe? Can't sign 2 of those players unless Calderon is moved.
Monroe and Knicks deal could get done quickly according to what he is hearing...
If that's true, it tells me that Phil already has a trade lined up for Calderon if need be. Why bother meeting with Jordan and Aldridge if he already knows he is going to be giving more than half of the cap room to Monroe? Can't sign 2 of those players unless Calderon is moved.
Or he has been told he has no chance at Aldridge or Jordan
would be an insane front court. DJ, Monroe, Melo.....holy hell, how do you stop that. I could play SG and we'd make the playoffs. Keep in mind I was my 7/8th grade basketball camp defensive MVP.
person I hear trash KP was Dan Dakich, who coached half a year at IU as an interim coach and bowling green for 10 years. He said that KP doesn't "have good eyes", and that he can tell who is going to be a good player by how "good their eyes are". Don't know if I buy that as a scouting report.
I heard the same. That he lacks court awareness. When he drives to the basket he looks down to the floor. Hopefully it's coachable. Only time will tell.
The organization got so caught up in selling free agents such as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh on New York being the haven to expand their celebrity and brand, the club forgot about the basics winning.
But an NBA source said West, at his age, is not coming to the Knicks because he wants to play for a team closer to title contention.
The New York Knicks have declined to extend a qualifying offer worth $1.181M to Quincy Acy. (Via Marc J. Spears - Yahoo Sports)
First day players can sign is 7/9
I still think we need to add 3 guys. Monroe/DJ, a SG, and big man depth.
Other BBI mentioned guys: O'Quinn, Joseph
An interesting name I hadn't considered. Derrick Williams. Could be an interesting guy to split time at the 4 with KP.
NBA Groupon shopping - ( New Window )
-Aldridge already has 2 meetings scheduled for tonight (LA and HOU). All teams will meet with him in LA. Knicks get the last meeting with him tomorrow. I doubt you can read anything into that, but its nice to have the last word.
-Gasol isnt even taking meetings
-According to Woj knicks are frontrunners for Monroe and Afflalo.
-Knicks will meet with D. Jordan on Thursday (I think).
-Mavs and Raptors showing early interest in Mathews who apparently is recovering really well.
-Jackson is expected to sell guys on winning and not on all the marketing opportunities in NY.
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According to an NBA executive, Jacksons recruiting strategy is to home in on selling the game and winning not outside business ventures found in Manhattan. Jackson does not want to repeat the same mistake made by the Knicks in 2010, when they last enjoyed enormous cap space.
The organization got so caught up in selling free agents such as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh on New York being the haven to expand their celebrity and brand, the club forgot about the basics winning.
-Sounds like there is mutual interest between the Knicks and Danny Green but it seems like his preference is to return to SA.
That said, I think there might be more Biyombo interest on Twitter than in real NBA. 1 team mentioned often --BOS-- not super interested yet
It wasnt the fucking pitch.
PF: David West, Kristaps Porzingis, Lou Amundson
SF: Melo, Al Farooq Aminu, Cleanthony Early
SG: Aaron Affaolo, Alexi Schved, Atetokuompo
PG: Jerian Grant, Jose Calderon, Langston Galloway
Get the next 3 and D guy. Dont pay for yesterday's 3 and D guy.
PF: David West, Kristaps Porzingis, Lou Amundson
SF: Melo, Al Farooq Aminu, Cleanthony Early
SG: Aaron Affaolo, Alexi Schved, Atetokuompo
PG: Jerian Grant, Jose Calderon, Langston Galloway
There is no way that they can sign Monroe, Afflalo, and West without moving Calderon.
Also, while that team isn't better than a 40 win team, its an honest day's work team without the drama, unprofessionalism, defensive indifference that has marked this franchise in recent years (i.e. 10 years).
Like Monroe.
Would only like West on the cheap, which is highly unlikely.
Pass hard on Afflalo at the numbers floated.
Aminu is interesting.
Grant/Vet
Wade/Galloway
Melo/Early
Vet/KP
Jordan/Aldrich/Vet
I wouldnt hate it, of course we are the knicks so in the opening game im sure Wade's leg would fall off.
Again I know it probably won't happen because of his comments about Melo being overrated, but I'd probably rather have him at 6 mil or so per year rather than Afflalo or Green at 12.
Affalo at 36-39 or Wade at 3 for 48 I'll take Wade
Give me the guy who's going to play more than 50 games and be 4 mill cheaper and able to play defense
A reasonable amount is the key, though. Don't overpay for a one-dimensional guy who still is raw in many aspects.
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$16 anyday over Afflalo at $12.
Give me the guy who's going to play more than 50 games and be 4 mill cheaper and able to play defense
Metrics suggest Affalo's defense is actually overrated. Affalo also isn't exactly an iron man. From 2012-2014 he's missed 20, 18 and 9 games.
Stein said on SC that theKnicks and MAvs are the biggest threats to take Jordan from the clippers and the Knicks are confident in their pitch to him...
Porzingis is going to play from day 1...he has a skill that will translate well to the NBA and will get him onto the court for at least 25 minutes a game...
If Knicks sign Jordan, i would have no problem starting him next to Melo and Jordan day 1..he would be a great fit next to those 2..
afflalo had 1 excellent stretch on a decent team and its got him paid and a reputation.
Cleveland's Mike Miller has opted into his $2.8M deal for 2015-16, league source tells RealGM.
As I wrote, FA Travis Wear will be on #Knicks summer-league team and could be at training camp. That's why no "6'' for Porzingis in Vegas
Link - ( New Window )
It is not bad hips, it is soreness from working out so much..Brother said he would be back on the court in a couple of days, just needed some rest...
It wasnt the fucking pitch.
As long as we know that's all I care about.
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the lesson there was that three players wanted to team up together, and only the Heat could facilitate that. It didnt hurt that Wade was already there and a champion, and that Miami is not a bad town to live or play in.
It wasnt the fucking pitch.
As long as we know that's all I care about.
With Melo already out recruiting, i think they know that..
Even if they use all of their cap space they will not be locked into this team...
Brook Lopez is expected to re-sign with the Nets. He wants to stay. Lionel Hollins & Billy King want him back & Mason Plumlee was traded.
Sources: Tobias Harris would prefer not to return to the Orlando Magic and play for Scott Skiles, who previously coached him in Milwaukee.
And I suspect there will be one or two minimum/near minimum salary players whose names haven't surfaced yet.
Boy do I wish they could dump Calderon.
Link - ( New Window )
Free agent I'm hearing that LeBron James would love the Cavs to sign: Chicago's Mike Dunleavy
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 56s57 seconds ago
But all the latest signals continue to stress that both Jimmy Butler and Mike Dunleavy are HIGHLY likely to be back with the Bulls
Sources: Tobias Harris would prefer not to return to the Orlando Magic and play for Scott Skiles, who previously coached him in Milwaukee.
Just don't like the fit at this point.
And I suspect there will be one or two minimum/near minimum salary players whose names haven't surfaced yet.
Boy do I wish they could dump Calderon. Link - ( New Window )
We dont know if the Knicks can dump Calderon, Phil may be waiting to get commitments first then dump him...he may have a deal ready just in case they get commitments and need the money...
I would be ok with Grant and Galloway as the PGs going into the season..
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Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 59s60 seconds ago
Sources: Tobias Harris would prefer not to return to the Orlando Magic and play for Scott Skiles, who previously coached him in Milwaukee.
Just don't like the fit at this point.
If you get Jordan, i dont mind Harris because then play Melo and Harris at the 3-4 wont kill you because you have a very good defensive 5 BUT i dont know if Harris is worth the money is going to get...
Brook Lopez is expected to re-sign with the Nets. He wants to stay. Lionel Hollins & Billy King want him back & Mason Plumlee was traded.
championship
Same
Would you guys do it?
Jordan gets his max..
wade gets 3 years 16 million to start...
Like Monroe.
Would only like West on the cheap, which is highly unlikely.
Pass hard on Afflalo at the numbers floated.
Aminu is interesting.
Yep. Went from being "smart" about free agency this year and next to hey someone, anyone take Dolan's money. What's the plan Phil?
I'd rather spend on Harris instead of the role player wings (Afflalo, Carroll, Green, etc) and worry bout fit later.
Would you guys do it?
Jordan gets his max..
wade gets 3 years 16 million to start...
3 years for Wade would be lunacy.
That said, he is not as good of a passer as Monroe and therefore not as good of a fit for the triangle. At that point, its a question if you value fit over floor spacing.
Link - ( New Window )
Defensively Butler and Grant would be great. Aldridge fits real nice in triangle
17/6 at 22 with 3 point range? If that's a role player then sign me up.
And this is different from Monroe how exactly?
Even if they use all of their cap space they will not be locked into this team...
The will be if they make shitty signings. If they Afflalo is owed $25 million in years 2-3 and is playing like a $2 million player, we're locked into him.
I'm fine giving big money deals to Aldridge, Jordan, and Monroe. But I really dont want to pay $10+ million per for guys like Afflalo, Matthews, Carroll and Green.
What team was successful paying well above MLE rates to incoming UFA role players when you didnt have a core of 2-3 stars in place already? People see teams winning with these guys making $2-3 million and think it is therefore fine to pay them $10 million. I just dont think the league works like that.
Take a bunch of fliers on $2-4 million guys. See who works, and resign them next offeseason (with cheap cap holds, so you sign better UFAs first).
I dont not like Harris, i dont like his fit, and im not sold on him yet.
I am not sure if thats an accurate indication of O'Quinn's value, but if we can get Afflalo at $9million or below and give O'quinn 3 years, $12 million I would be totally alright with that.
This is assuming we strikeout on Aldridge or Jordan, which I think we will.
Darnell Mayberry
@DarnellMayberry
The Thunder has traded the contract of Luke Ridnour to Toronto along with cash to create a $2.85 million trade exception.
Tobias Harris? He's a SF in every sense of the word.
Anyways, I am not really trying to argue this, like I said, I like Monroe, I just think Harris is more versatile.
But yeah, cheap guys. Im not convinced that there is a lot of consistency in the mid level of production anyway. With age, situation, scheme, etc., it's entirely likely to me that from a hand full of bargain bin guys you get one surprise starter and a good rotation guy.
Darnell Mayberry
@DarnellMayberry
The Thunder has traded the contract of Luke Ridnour to Toronto along with cash to create a $2.85 million trade exception.
Good lord, this guy and Steve Blake are like pass around joints. Puff Puff now pass it on.
2 years ago, he averaged 16 PPG on 40% shooting. I know he has some JR Smith to him, but to get a better player than Afflalo at 1/4 the cost is a no brainer.
I'd rather carry the cap space into the season and potentially rent it out for a pick then spend it on this guy.
Yahoo Sources: Sacramento probing Kentucky's John Calipari about interest in running front office and coaching.
Sources: After CHI offered @JimmyButler max 5/$90-plus Mon, JB postponed meeting w/LAL, BOS, PHI, DAL. JB deciding how many yrs 2 sign w/CHI
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
Again I'm on board with Bismack. His offense is atrocious though so he def has his issues, which is why you can get him for 5-7 mill or whatever.
Im a pretty optimistic fan, but id have a real hard time dealing with a 3/38 mill deal for Afflalo. Its just such a gross overpay for a guy who doesn't even have upside, i mean he is what he is at this point.
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3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
You can substitute Danny or Gerald Green in that and it still would work. We can go back and forth arguing how Afflalo is a better defender despite having worse advanced numbers in every category, but that doesn't justify being paid 4 times as much as him.
Quote:
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
My mistake. I still think Danny Green would be a perfect fit. No way SA can afford to keep him, he's a Long Island native who spends much of the offseason back home. I think it would be a nice move for him and us
This is a reasonable way to look at it. Gerald Green is talented but flawed. He's not better than Afflalo. But if the contract is much less, he could be the better value. The thing about Green is that every coach he's had has sent him packing. He's not easy to coach. The Knicks could really use some solid veterans in the mix and Afflalo offers that in spades.
with San Antonio seemingly out of the picture due to their pursuit of LMA, I would think Gasol needs another team in the running to force Memphis to go the full 5 year max.
Quote:
In comment 12349075 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
3 point shooter and a better defender then Afflalo IMO.. two things this team absolutely needs. He is also youger. Green, Monroe and O'quinn or Koufos would be a nice haul. Or Deandre and Green
He was talking about Gerald Green, to be clear.
My mistake. I still think Danny Green would be a perfect fit. No way SA can afford to keep him, he's a Long Island native who spends much of the offseason back home. I think it would be a nice move for him and us
Yes, they can only keep him if they don't go for LMA. And the Knicks should be picking at the edges of their roster as much as possible, too. Cory Joseph, for example.
If Phil pulls a rabbit out of his hat and finds a way..
The same goes for the San Antonio Spurs, who were widely believed to be the only team that had a shot at luring Gasol out of his Memphis comfort zone that dates back to his high school days when brother Pau was still playing for the Grizzlies.
What is clear is that teams such as the Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Milwaukee Bucks -- all of whom had designs on making a run at the Spaniard in free agency -- have essentially abandoned those plans.
Quote:
now saying the Knicks WILL getting a meeting with Gasol, Marc Stein says Gasol won't be meeting with other teams... who is right?
If Phil pulls a rabbit out of his hat and finds a way..
Sell him on a short deal, another star next year, and the promise of Dolan's checkbook as he ages.
Don't think we're going to see any major moves at the stroke of midnight. Most of the top FAs have meetings Wed/Thurs. As much as I would like good news quickly, I think we will have to wait a couple of days at least! (hope I'm wrong-lol)
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But that roster looks like the money was burning a hole in our pocket and we just had to spend it.
Like Monroe.
Would only like West on the cheap, which is highly unlikely.
Pass hard on Afflalo at the numbers floated.
Aminu is interesting.
Yep. Went from being "smart" about free agency this year and next to hey someone, anyone take Dolan's money. What's the plan Phil?
This is my real concern. That we treat FA like the old version of Wheel of Fortune, where the winner of every round had to spend all their winnings on the few pieces of shit that were put on the stage.
We should be focused on acquiring assets smartly. I dont really care if we havent spent our UFA bucks 3 weeks from today. You can make trades now, or go into the season under the cap and be a facilitator in a trade.
Just dont hand out untradable garbage contracts to guys exiting their prime years. That's just stupid. For once dont be the stupid money at the table.
Tell me somethin' good!
As one league official familiar with Ranadive's mindset told Yahoo Sports, "He's trying to find a magic button to push that'll fix everything."
As one league official familiar with Ranadive's mindset told Yahoo Sports, "He's trying to find a magic button to push that'll fix everything."
this is like Larry Brown, Dolan, and Isiah all over again.
Sources: @deandrejordan6 likely to do 4-yr deal, player opt after 3, no matter where he signs. Allows him 2,capitalize on new TV $ n few yrs
For the 100th time, I have the best basketball coaching position in the world. I am not looking for any other coaching position.
if the case to replace plumlee- they have to give the cavs something. should be solid lopez back up on defensive end.
Sasha Kaun is close to signing a contract with the Nets, according to the Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union.
Kaun will have to pass the physicals before signing with the Nets.
Kaun retired from European basketball looking for a deal in the NBA.
His NBA rights are owned by the Cavaliers so if he wants to sign with the Nets he has to be traded to Brooklyn first.
"1. TRADE BORIS DIAW WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Diaw is one of the team's most important players, but started to slow down during the regular season. He signed a four-year, $28 million deal in the summer of 2014. The deal declines each season, is partially-guaranteed in Year 3 and fully unguaranteed in Year 4.
Any team with cap space that's looking for a playmaking power forward might give him a look, but the Spurs may have to attach additional draft picks and/or the rights to players the Spurs have stashed overseas to entice teams. They might still do that if it means keeping Splitter. Diaw turns 33 and could see his production nosedive on a different team."
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
2016 $3M guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 6/30/16
2017 non-guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 7/15/17
$500k unlikely incentives (meets certain weight requirements throughout the season)
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on Oct. 25
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on the first Tuesday after the All-Star Game
$200,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on April 1
Source: PBT
He needs that or else he will be a disaster.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
I would take Splitter. 50-50 on Diaw - would have to be a good package. Diaw is solid but has 2 years left before a team option in 2017. Don't want to get into another Calderon situation.
2016 $3M guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 6/30/16
2017 non-guaranteed, fully if not waived on or before 7/15/17
$500k unlikely incentives (meets certain weight requirements throughout the season)
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on Oct. 25
$150,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on the first Tuesday after the All-Star Game
$200,000 weigh less than or equal to 254 pounds on April 1
Source: PBT
Ah did not know that about 2016 - interesting
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2. TRADE TIAGO SPLITTER WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Splitter has value as one of the league's top defensive centers, but struggled with a calf injury last year. He has two years and just under $17 million left on his deal, which is excellent value if he stays healthy, but that's a big if. He's also turning 31 next season and would become somewhat redundant if the Spurs sign Aldridge.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
I would take Splitter. 50-50 on Diaw - would have to be a good package. Diaw is solid but has 2 years left before a team option in 2017. Don't want to get into another Calderon situation.
Sounds like Diaw only has 3 million guaranteed if waived after this upcoming season
Quote:
In comment 12349160 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
2. TRADE TIAGO SPLITTER WHILE TAKING NO SALARY BACK: Splitter has value as one of the league's top defensive centers, but struggled with a calf injury last year. He has two years and just under $17 million left on his deal, which is excellent value if he stays healthy, but that's a big if. He's also turning 31 next season and would become somewhat redundant if the Spurs sign Aldridge.
The issue is that San Antonio must complete this trade quickly to get Aldridge. They do not have the luxury of letting free-agent centers sign and then seeking out the teams that miss on them as trade partners.
I would take Splitter. 50-50 on Diaw - would have to be a good package. Diaw is solid but has 2 years left before a team option in 2017. Don't want to get into another Calderon situation.
Sounds like Diaw only has 3 million guaranteed if waived after this upcoming season
Yea didn't know that when I originally posted that haha
I think they sell him a 10% stake in the team. Price will be a little cheap, but not outrageous. They will lend him the money on very easy terms, backed only by his stake in the team. With a little bit here and there on such a deal, you can easily give a guy $100 million effectively under the table.
In a lot of ways I view Koufos in the same boat as a Marcin Gortat a few years back, when he was backing up Dwight Howard. He is overshadowed by the guy in front of him, but he's more than capable of being a very serviceable starter
Free agent pursuing the Miami Heat 2-guard spot if Dwyane Wade leaves: Monta Ellis, sources tell RealGM. Sides plan to discuss July visit.
Don't think the money will work but #Knicks are among teams on Wes Matthews' radar in free agency, sources w/knowledge of his thinking say.
The Clippers could offer Jordan a deal that includes a fifth year worth $27 million.
Unless Wes Matthews thinks he is getting $12+ million? 27 -15 for Monroe leaves 12, right?
Hopefully the money doesnt work for either.
The Clippers could offer Jordan a deal that includes a fifth year worth $27 million.
This is an interesting dynamic this year. The same is true for Gasol and LMA. The extra year the home teams have is not as big a draw when the cap is about to blow up. Even Melo is gonna look pretty affordable at the end of his deal.
Also hearing rumblings that Arron Afflalo is open to--and may ultimately seek--a short term contract that frees him in a year or two.
Don't be surprised if the #Knicks wind up with short-term deals on players. Gives both parties flexibility in the rising cap era.
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Free agent DeAndre Jordan is likely looking to sign a four-year deal that allows him to opt out after three seasons, which would nullify the Los Angeles Clippers' advantage in keeping the center, sources told ESPN on Tuesday.
The Clippers could offer Jordan a deal that includes a fifth year worth $27 million.
This is an interesting dynamic this year. The same is true for Gasol and LMA. The extra year the home teams have is not as big a draw when the cap is about to blow up. Even Melo is gonna look pretty affordable at the end of his deal.
The cap exploding presents a different dynamic for DJ than the other two. Gasol and LMA will both be 30 at the start of the season so if they did a 3 year deal like DJ, they'd be looking for another deal as they (likely) start declining. DJ in 3 years will likely be towards the tail end of his prime but still playing at a high enough level for one more big payday.
Seems like there are fewer dumb organizations across all sports these days. I was just thinking about it in the NHL, where so many teams are successfully building by bottoming out for a few seasons.
Basketball IQ is a top priority for #Knicks in their free agency quest. Don't look for names, look for intelligence.
So rule out DeAndre Jordan.
Basketball IQ is a top priority for #Knicks in their free agency quest. Don't look for names, look for intelligence. #learners
Basketball IQ is a top priority for #Knicks in their free agency quest. Don't look for names, look for intelligence. #learners
Biyombo's out. :)
Scott Roth, KP's former head coach at Sevilla: "He handled himself really well. He's very mature for his age. He has a great family and a base around him. He's a great, humble kid who's a worker. He's very competitive. He has a lot of intensity and competitive fight in him. That's the most critical component to his success in my opinion."
Roth: "He's going to make open shots. You're going to have to guard him from 15 feet to the 3-point line. His stroke is great. I had Dirk as a rookie. Dirk had more range. But the fluidity and grace of the shot is Dirk-like. He's athletic enough to run the floor. He's deceivingly good as a weak side shot blocker. He's actually very good down in the post. He just doesn't have the strength to maintain his position in the paint. And maybe most importantly, no one will out work him."
NBA GM: "I was watching him warm up and had flashbacks to when I saw Pau Gasol take the floor for the first time in Spain, only this kid is much more athletic than Gasol and plays with that same fluidity. I've been asking my team since then: Are you sure he's not the No. 1 guy? Are these guys in college really better than him?"
Long-time NBA scout: "[Saying they're more] established has nothing to do with [drafting the top Americans over KP]. That's code for, 'I won't get fired if I draft Okafor and he turns into Greg Oden. But I will get fired if Porzingis is the next Darko.'"
Roth:"Most of the international guys that busted didn't love the game. They failed because of a lack of passion and work ethic. It was convenient for them to come over and make a lot of money. Zinger's more in the Dirk mode, in that you can't get him out of the gym. He's also more in the Gasol mode, because he's so skilled. I hate to throw Dirk's name out there so flippantly. He's been so great. I don't think anyone thought when we drafted him he'd be this great. Zinger has some characteristics of Pau. Some of Dirk. But what he becomes? I can't tell you. But I don't think he'll be a bust. At worst he's a really good player. At best, a potential all-star. He's just too skilled, and too competitive to fail."
Long-time NBA GM: "Throw a Kentucky or a Duke jersey on him and you're in a heated debate about who is No. 1 in this draft. He has Dirk's shooting ability and moves and Kirilenko's athleticism. Think about it. What if Dirk had been a better athlete and defender? What if Kirilenko was four or five inches taller and could shoot it? That doesn't come along in the draft every year. I'm not sure it's ever come along in the draft."
NBA GM who had previously been critical of KP's weight/body: "His upper body needs a lot of work, but actually his lower body is pretty good. And for a player like him, that's the half of the body that matters defensively. It could get better, but it's not bad like I thought it was. In a couple of years, it's not going to be an issue."
Roth: "I had Gasol as a rookie in Memphis. They have the same body structure. It's a work in progress. It's not going to be totally fixed in six months. He's going to be 22 or 23 when he gets 20 or 30 pounds. But once his body catches up, he's going to be a monster."
Roth: "I've been around a lot of Europeans; things like passion or the ability for him to make the transition, it's not an issue with him. You put him in competitive situations he'll play as hard as anyone. He got beat up a lot. His competitive fire is as high as anyone. You just don't see 7-1 guys who love to play like he does. You have to kick him out of the gym. He knows the NBA. It's a passion and love for him and that will vault him into being a great player in the NBA."
NBA GM on why KP can't go first overall: "I just think Towns is the best player in the draft. I'm not sure Minnesota knows that yet, but I think they will be the end of the process. And if they don't, it's because Flip [Saunders] fell in love with Okafor."
Long-time international scout: "He's my favorite player in this draft. I keep telling my staff: This one is not like other international players. He's the real deal. He's special in all the ways a player can be special. He just needs to get stronger. That's it. He's going to be a big-time pro."
Western Conference executive: The kid can flat-out shoot. Now hes really, really thin, but hes athletic. A 7-footer who can step out and hit 3s is something.
Bobby Marks, former BKN Asst. GM: Id take Porzingis at four. Then Im talking to the fans and the media about how the team is going to be built going forward. Id make sure the pressure on Porzingis is not too high, and I think that hes a piece of the puzzle.
Fran Fraschilla: If youre picking four, youre essentially gambling. I dont know how you can come up with a better gamble than a guy thats 7-feet-1 on his way to 7-2, whos athletic, graceful, shoots the ball from 3, blocks shots and is 19 years old. I get the idea of the buzz factor, but after Okafor, Towns and Russell are gone, you might as well gamble and draft a kid who potentially could be along the lines of Dirk Nowitzki, (Pau) Gasol, (Andrei) Kirilenko. Hes a graceful player. His English is great. Hes a basketball junkie.
Gregg Polinsky, BKN Dir. of Player Personnel: Hes got a chance to be very good. The body is not there yet; hes very thin. Everyone talks about how he shoots the basketball, but what separates him is hes really competitive. Hes so skinny yet hes willing to take a pounding. Most guys built like that are not. He has that special quality mentally to go along with a skill thats valued in our league.
Chris Ekstrand, NBA consultant: Youre talking about a league that values speed and shooting ability. You dont see Charles Oakley and Dale Davis and Otis Thorpe anymore, so hes not going to have to play those types. Its made for a stretch-4, guys who are tall and can shoot away from the basket. Thats what Porzingis does.
Larry Sanders, former Pistons trainer, current Sevilla trainer: "When you grow (as fast Kris has), your body has a whole new neural field, basically. Your body doesn't really know where it is in space, so it's really hard to take contact or deliver contact when your body doesn't really know where you are. So for him, we had to get him used to his body before we could work on getting him stronger. Any kind of excess weight is just not functional. You try to make the body as efficient a machine as possible."
Sanders: "If you notice, he jumps really well off of both his right and left legs independently. That's not by accident. His core is unbelievable. At the beginning of the season, I could get leverage on him and all of that. But toward the end of the season, he learned how to absorb contact and not only hold his ground, but also hold his ground to where he could change direction."
Sanders: "When I was with the Pistons, we were doing pre-draft workouts and looking into John Henson. With him, his ratio of shoulder-to-hip is smaller than his hips. He didn't have much room to grow. With Kris, it's opposite. He has track legs and has a built lower body to go with broader shoulders."
Eastern Conference GM: I think there is a strong chance he lands in the top four picks. The Lakers, Knicks and 76ers are all possible options. He has the length and athleticism of Andrei Kirilenko and stroke and footwork like Dirk Nowitzki. He will be the best prospect in this draft while also having the best upside.
A different Eastern Conference GM: Hes really good and I think he should be in the conversation at No. 2."
5/15/15
NBA GM: "He could go two. He's that good. Nobody says anything bad about him."
NBA Head of Basketball Operations: "I think he's a lock for the top five and I wouldn't be surprised to see him go as high as top three. He's good. We all like to do our comparables. He's like Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol...I'd take him ahead of (Jahlil) Okafor."
A former NBA Executive of the Year: If the draft was one year from now, I think Porzingis goes No. 1. Hes just not fully formed yet and thats getting in the way of peoples decisions. But one more year, and I think it would be him and then [Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell and Okafor].
NBA GM: If Karl Towns doesnt turn out, you could survive that. If Porzingis is a bust, youre probably getting canned.
Maybe just maybe we look back at those two annoying wins down the stretch of the season as the best thing this franchise ever did. If the Knicks lose those games and end up picking 1-2 maybe they don't take KP. Maybe they take Oke if Philly takes Mudiay...who knows...but I can't wait to see what this kid can do over the next few years. Fans have been so negative calling in to espn and fan..blaming the team for winning 2 games down the stretch, they are losing sight of what this team finally has here...two young talents in Grant and KP and a star scorer in Melo...we finally have hope.
O'Quinn-4
Gerald Green-mini MLE
Nobody can actually meet or talk until midnight.
I'm sure i'm setting myself up for misery but I am so pumped about the Knicks right now. Seems I am not alone on BBI...Just do yourself a favor and turn the radio down because it will damper your mood before too long.
Ryen Russillo and Chad Ford respected the decision. Amin Al-Hassan, a former EXECUTIVE, said it was the best think the Knicks could've done. I'm starting to get sick of it.
this is sort of the way it works every year.
Yes, he will get pushed around under the boards and on defense, but who is going to guard him? PFs will want no part of going out to his shooting range and trying to chase him.
Dallas, New York, Chicago, Cleveland and, of course, Houston are among the teams interested in Patrick Beverley (@patbev21), per sources.
Bargs was so much stronger and seems to be more skilled at the same stage. But you can tell that Porzingis is a much more fluid athlete with better balance.
Bargs is such a sloth these days but his Euro highlights were damn impressive. There's a reason he went #1. I'd say Bargs was a better prospect than KP at the same stage, but KP is a better athlete which could help him translate into the NBA better.
Calderon/Grant
Matthews
Melo
KP
Monroe
I would just play small all year. If you can add a Biyombo for cheap do it but playing small ball in the East is definitely doable.
While none of the advanced stats say anything good about him, when we talk about busts, we talk about Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams. I'd hardly consider him in the same breath as those guys. If you're telling me KPs absolute floor is a 37% 3 point shooting stretch big that can give at least average defense and 15 PPG, I'll take it.
I love his tenacity but he's a very limited player whose defense really isn't even that good.
But Bargs was a net-negative player and everyone realized that despite the PPG numbers. Even when he was dropping 20 a game for the Raptors, he was hurting the team because of everything else he absolutely sucked at.
So while a guy like Anthony Bennett provided 0 value for his team, Bargnani provied a ton of negative value for his team because he played so much and so poorly.
That's the argument for Bargs as an all-time bust.
But in any event, they're very different players. And so much of getting from great prospect to greatness is mental: will and work ethic.
I'm assuming that would be for Splitter? Would be a tremendous addition for the Cavs.
I think the focus is on KP to gain that type of weight now. It looks like he's never really lifted heavy before, so I wouldn't think it would be ridiculous for him to be even 10 pounds heavier at the start of this season, as skinny guys tend to balloon up in the first few months of actual lifting.
He's certainly not as skinny as KP, but he wasn't exactly low body fat. KP doesn't have any body fat on him.
2006- 11.6, 42%, 37%
2007- 10.2, 39%, 35%
2008- 15.4, 41%, 41%
2009- 17.2, 47%, 37%
2010- 21.4, 45%, 35%
Issue was that he basically hit a wall after that 2010 season and never really got back up to that level he was in 2009 and 2010.
Obviously never progressed in terms of defense and rebounding as well.
Did this lack of progression have to do with him hitting his athletic ceiling? Was it a lack of passion? Who knows it's a bit tough to tell.
Hopefully if that was the case Porz can progress even further in all areas of the game due his superior athleticism and work ethic.
Exactly. How many top 5-10-20 picks every year become all-stars? Not many. Otherwise every team would be dripping with them. A lot more guys fail in the NBA than succeed.
Makes me think that the NBA scouting of Int'l prospects is still lacking because the guys we expect to be stars are busts and the guys we expect to be JAGs turn out to be valuable players more often than the lottery guys.
Is Kanter a bust? 3rd overall, but not an all star. And not a failed player.
If you believe the history, scouts had Pekovic slotted as a top ten, but something about his weird, expensive euroleague contract scared people away.
I think a lot of that also has to do with high draft pick Euro's typically are coming over immediately; lower picks get time to develop there before coming over.
I totally agree. The odd thing is Mario Hezonja wasn't painted with the same brush... it's only tall white Europeans who're supposed to be "the next Dirk Nowitzki". However, I would like to SEE Zingis play well before being told how great he is.
You take the damn player where he is supposed to go. His success is not dependant on where he was taken in the draft.
There's been so many Euro's that have been making noise recently, I don't get the whole xenophobia thing. Mirotic, Giannis, Dragic, Pekovic, Schroder. Enough with the few busts over the last 20 years that have been making a bad name for the many that have broken onto the scene recently.
With KP, its hard to see how he fits because there is really no precedent for him. His weight is the biggest thing that scares people away, but if you think about an athletic 7'2" player with a 7'6 wingspan that can hit 3s and block shots, there's some sort of "too good to be true" aspect that also scares people away.
KP is as unique as they come, and people area always hesitant on the "unique" players. Jan Vesley was seen as unique with his combination of size, athleticism, and ball handling. But so was Kevin Durant. Its that mysterious aspect that I think scares people off.
I can't imagine it is. There are a shitload of busts in every draft, most of whom are black Americans. It's basically restricted to tall white guys and the "next Dirk" thing/style of play. I think not seeing these players has a major effect too. For example, no one is going to be screaming bust when Domantas Sabonis turns pro.
Rather than lumping all foreign players together, ESPN should go the other way and do a break down based on players coming from the different Euro leagues.
If history holds, you are betting that your Euro lottery pick ends up being at best a complementary fringe starter or role player. At worst, he becomes a complete bust.
History changes. I'm just not sure I'd take that chance.
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
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significantly higher than that of American born players?
I can't imagine it is. There are a shitload of busts in every draft, most of whom are black Americans. It's basically restricted to tall white guys and the "next Dirk" thing/style of play. I think not seeing these players has a major effect too. For example, no one is going to be screaming bust when Domantas Sabonis turns pro.
A lot of it is perception. Many NBA fans at least casually follow CBB so they've seen most of the top prospects from CBB dominate at that level and partly expect them to continue that performance at the next level. So as the scouts/GM in that blog post above regarding Porz point out, if you miss on an American CBB prospect, you try again. If you're the GM that misses on one of these Euros (who most fans haven't heard of until "draft season"), you lose your job.
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significantly higher than that of American born players?
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
The talent pool for American players is significantly larger, so the odds of an American being a star are a lot higher. It's pointless to bring that into the equation.
If history holds, you are betting that your Euro lottery pick ends up being at best a complementary fringe starter or role player. At worst, he becomes a complete bust.
History changes. I'm just not sure I'd take that chance.
But what percentage of american born players drafted have become megastars? Do the 2 stars mentioned above out of a smaller total pool stack up percentage-wise?
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Is that non-Euro lottery picks sometimes fail, but often become mega-stars. Realistically speaking, what Euro's besides Nowitzki and Gasol are mega-stars?
If history holds, you are betting that your Euro lottery pick ends up being at best a complementary fringe starter or role player. At worst, he becomes a complete bust.
History changes. I'm just not sure I'd take that chance.
But what percentage of american born players drafted have become megastars? Do the 2 stars mentioned above out of a smaller total pool stack up percentage-wise?
Technically that's 3 stars: Dirk, Pau, and Marc
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In comment 12349516 Enzo said:
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significantly higher than that of American born players?
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
The talent pool for American players is significantly larger, so the odds of an American being a star are a lot higher. It's pointless to bring that into the equation.
How is it pointless to point out that none of the most hyped Euro prospects ended up doing much?
Enzo : 4:18 pm : link : reply
significantly higher than that of American born players?
don't know if the "bust rate" is higher, but at least from a perception stance, it would seem like the "star rate" is much lower.
I don't know. But the Euro Lottery Star rate has been 0 for a decade now. Obviously there have been American stars since that time.
The talent pool for American players is significantly larger, so the odds of an American being a star are a lot higher. It's pointless to bring that into the equation.
How is it pointless to point out that none of the most hyped Euro prospects ended up doing much?
I didn't say that part was pointless. I said it was pointless to relate it to American stars, when you usually have 2 or 3 Europeans considered lottery talents yet you have 4 times as many American players considered lottery talents.
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is the Euro lottery bust rate
Enzo : 4:18 pm : link : reply
significantly higher than that of American born players?
don't know if the "bust rate" is higher, but at least from a perception stance, it would seem like the "star rate" is much lower.
that's bound to happen given the HUGE difference in sample size.
Gasol --------- 48
Ibaka --------- 24
Gortat -------- 57
Batum --------- 25
Dragic -------- 45
Ilyasova ------ 36
Gallinari ----- 6
Sefolosha ----- 13
Splitter ------ 28
Belinelli ----- 18
Valanciunas --- 5
Pekovic ------- 31
Bargnani ------ 1
Asik ---------- 36
Jerebko ------- 39
Fernandez ----- 24
Mahinmi ------- 28
Kanter -------- 5
Casspi -------- 23
Rubio --------- 5
Makes me think that the NBA scouting of Int'l prospects is still lacking because the guys we expect to be stars are busts and the guys we expect to be JAGs turn out to be valuable players more often than the lottery guys.
Who are you talking about? The lottery Euros over the last 10 drafts (exclusive of 2015) are:
2011 - #3 Kanter, #5 JV on Toronto (both 20+ PER last season)); #6 Vesely looks like a bust, just like American #2 D. Williams. My recollection was that this was considered a 4 player draft, with the first two, Williams and Irving (Thompson was a surprise at #4, and I dont really like his game).
2009 - Rubio #5. I'd argue injury has played a huge role here, but part of the problem was shooting that everyone knew would always be a problem. Not a bust at ~15 PER (see, e.g., #2 Thabeet and #6 Johnny Flynn).
2008 - #6 Gallo. But for the back injury I think he's a better version of Peja. Better than #7-9 picks Gordon, Alexander, and Augustin.
2006 - #1 Bargs. Not an all star but there have been more disappointing #1s. Horrible top 5 outside of Aldridge -- hello Morrison, Ty Thomas, and Shelden Williams!
2005 - #11 Vazquez never came over. #12 Korolev I guess is a bust, but really #11-16 were all <10 win share players. It's the late lottery.
Overall, I dont think lottery Euros have been so bad over the last 10 drafts. No superstars, but only one top 2 pick, and that in a horrible draft. Rubio and Gallo have turned into okay players despite injuries, and as mid lottery picks that's really fine. The two 2011 guys look pretty good.
Like I said - just not a chance I'd take, especially on a 19 year old
huh? Why restrict it to the lottery? Considering so few are drafted in the lottery (especially the high lottery) it's a completely arbitrary end point.
I guess the old adage is there that "we are due", but I sure would have been more confident with a different pick there if I'm the Knicks.
My take would just be that if you were looking for a big Euro who could pass well and have a decent perimeter shot, then those guys exist at pick 34. If you are drafting on potential, hell, Winslow has the potential to be a future HOF. He also has a potential to be a bust.
I guess what I'd say based on history is that even the top Euro's potential seems to top out at decent, reliable, complementary player.
Especially when these guys are in the NBA currently
Dirk, Parker, Ibaka (African I get it), Gortat, Gobert, Pau and Marc Gasol, Dragic, Mirotic, Greek Freak, Vucevic (yes played some college ball), Batum, Gallo etc etc. There are dozens of international players in the NBA who are having/will have better careers than most of the lotto picks.
2011 NBA Lottery:
Euros: kanter, JV, Vesley Busts: Vesley Bust Rate: 33%
American Busts: Fredette, Williams Bust Rate: 20%
2010 NBA Lottery:
Euros: None Bust rate: N/A
American Busts: Turner, Johnson, Udoh, Aminu, Aldrich, Henry
Bust Rate: 50%
2009 NBA lottery:
Euros: Rubio Bust Rate: Depends on your perception of Rubio
American Busts: Thabeet, Flynn, Hill, T Williams, Hansbrough, Henderson, Clark
Bust Rate: 46%
2008 NBA Draft Lottery:
Euros: Gallo Busts: none Bust Rate: 0%
American Busts: Alexander, Beasley, Mayo, Augustin, Bayless, Thompson, Rush, Randolph
Bust Rate: 62%
We can't use examples like Giannis or Kanter or Gobert yet to say they are All-star caliber players yet, so that creates a biased argument against KP becoming a star. All 3 of those guys are below 23 and are nowhere close to their respective ceilings. Gobert can become a perennial All-Defensive player candidate, Kanter has flashed signs of being a 20 and 10 guy, and Giannis has all the makings of being a transcendent player.
That's what I'm saying. So should all the times let KP slide so he had a better shot of becoming good if he went 11 picks later? Fuck no. Dumbass argument.
But in the last 10 years you've had one Euro taken in the top 2 picks -- Bargs. Aldridge turned out better, but the bigger issue is that it was a HORRIFIC top of the draft. Kanter was a #3 pick, again in a weak draft, and I'd rather have him that Thompson, Knight, Kemba or Jimmer -- the next American players to go. The top 3 -- that's where superstars tend to come from.
So what should the Knicks have done? The next picks were another Euro (Hezonja), non-superstar potential guy WCS, and Mudiay (great Chinese league track record?). Stanimal is going to be a superstar? Frank the Tank? Everyone's in love with Justice Winslow. Except the 9 GMs who passed on him.
So we should have skipped over the 4th best prospect because people from the continent he comes from who get picked much lower and/or in crappy drafts have not been all around superstars? For guys like the #10 pick. Got it.
But in the last 10 years you've had one Euro taken in the top 2 picks -- Bargs. Aldridge turned out better, but the bigger issue is that it was a HORRIFIC top of the draft. Kanter was a #3 pick, again in a weak draft, and I'd rather have him that Thompson, Knight, Kemba or Jimmer -- the next American players to go. The top 3 -- that's where superstars tend to come from.
So what should the Knicks have done? The next picks were another Euro (Hezonja), non-superstar potential guy WCS, and Mudiay (great Chinese league track record?). Stanimal is going to be a superstar? Frank the Tank? Everyone's in love with Justice Winslow. Except the 9 GMs who passed on him.
So we should have skipped over the 4th best prospect because people from the continent he comes from who get picked much lower and/or in crappy drafts have not been all around superstars? For guys like the #10 pick. Got it.
This is a MAJOR issue I have with people who hated the pick. I wanted Mudiay the most (because I strongly feel we need an upgrade at PG and I think the FA market is pathetic). I didn't expect to pick up grant and I had Zinger as my #2 want. All of that said... who did we pass on that makes gambling on a 7'3 kid with 3 point range, who can run, who loves the game etc etc the wrong move? I didn't even love Okafor and yet, if the Knicks passed on an Okafor or a Russell... I would understand the outrage. Mudiay has many of the same concerns (though I think odds are he has a better rookie season than Zinger). The Knicks took the BPA and they should be commended.
Everyone assumes that Miami gets the best out of their drafted rookies, but since Wade, how many of these guys succeeded? Beasley? Chalmers? Cole. I'd wait before we call Winslow a "steal"
This. The other gambles on greatness were the next two picks -- a Euro and a kid who barely played in China last year.
Is anyone inside the league criticizing the pick? You hear fans (who essentially dont know the player) and media members (same, and particularly biased to not cover rebuilding teams). But has any talent evaluator said "he aint it"? I
What are you hoping for? That's a best case scenario roster for 2015-16.
What about Bob Whitfield?
Derrick Williams To Receive Interest From Kings, Wizards, Rockets, Lakers, Heat, Suns, Knicks
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 28m28 minutes ago
Source: Knicks have some interest in Paul Millsap, but his possible price range of $17-19 million per season would be too high for New York.
Berger didn't mention it, but the cap increase would also increase the max contract amounts. So I don't think it gives them the ability to sign a second mac player.
This is what it looks like
Yahoo Sources: Kawhi Leonard, Spurs agree to framework of a maximum contract extension.
Yahoo Sources: Kawhi Leonard, Spurs agree to framework of a maximum contract extension.
If that's true, it tells me that Phil already has a trade lined up for Calderon if need be. Why bother meeting with Jordan and Aldridge if he already knows he is going to be giving more than half of the cap room to Monroe? Can't sign 2 of those players unless Calderon is moved.
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Monroe and Knicks deal could get done quickly according to what he is hearing...
If that's true, it tells me that Phil already has a trade lined up for Calderon if need be. Why bother meeting with Jordan and Aldridge if he already knows he is going to be giving more than half of the cap room to Monroe? Can't sign 2 of those players unless Calderon is moved.
Or he has been told he has no chance at Aldridge or Jordan
As @SpearsNBAYahoo noted, Rajon Rondo is not on the Knicks wish list, sources confirm.
As @SpearsNBAYahoo noted, Rajon Rondo is not on the Knicks wish list, sources confirm.
Phil is sitting on a B+ offseason at worst cuz of that.
I heard the same. That he lacks court awareness. When he drives to the basket he looks down to the floor. Hopefully it's coachable. Only time will tell.
Big numbers flying around!
Big numbers flying around!
Wasn't expecting it for that tier of player though. Meh.