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NFT: Mike Trout

Victor in CT : 6/30/2015 8:40 am
WOW! What a talent. Crushes a HR into the rock pile, makes 2 great catches in deep CF, steals a base. If there is anything to reincarnation, this kid is Mickey Mantle.

Scary part is that he is just 23 yrs old and scratching the surface of his talent. I wish he played on the East Coast.
More importantly  
JonC : 6/30/2015 8:41 am : link
I hope the Yanks find a way to get him, or Harper, eventually.
Maybe  
spike : 6/30/2015 8:47 am : link
They can sign both Harper and Trout
Yup  
Sec 103 : 6/30/2015 8:50 am : link
Mickey reincarnate!
JonC and Spike, a worthy sentiment for sure to see great players in  
Victor in CT : 6/30/2015 8:53 am : link
pinstripes, but it would be nice to see the Yanks develop a few of their own for a change. Been a long time since Bernie Williams, Jeter and Posada came up.

And Trout was not taken in the Top 20 even. #25 overall.

But what a talent. He is one of the few players that are worth the price of admission on their own.
Picked  
CromartiesKid21 : 6/30/2015 9:33 am : link
with the supplemental draft choice from the Teixera signing. Trout was the Yankees target all along that year as not many scouts bother to look into North East prospects but the Angels did that year.
Angels proceeded to take Trout 4 picks before the Yankees very own supplemental pick at #25. Yankees ended up selecting Slade Heathcott at #29 instead.
If the Angels had chosen to resign K-Rod or Teixera that year its likely Mike Trout would have been a Yankee or even a Met.
The only chance that Yankees get either of those guys  
superspynyg : 6/30/2015 9:48 am : link
Is late in their careers and by over paying by a lot.
I thought the Yankees picked 26th that year  
The 12th Man : 6/30/2015 10:08 am : link
Angels took him right before them. The Yankees did want him as he is a kid from NJ.
RE: The only chance that Yankees get either of those guys  
cokeduplt : 6/30/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12348932 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Is late in their careers and by over paying by a lot.


Harper will be a free agent when he's 26 so it's a possibility
Trout will be UFA at 28-29  
JonC : 6/30/2015 10:21 am : link
still prime years in baseball, and Harper will only be 26. That's who teams SHOULD overpay for, not whom the Yanks have historically overpaid for.
RE: Picked  
Danny Kanell : 6/30/2015 10:21 am : link
In comment 12348902 CromartiesKid21 said:
Quote:
with the supplemental draft choice from the Teixera signing. Trout was the Yankees target all along that year as not many scouts bother to look into North East prospects but the Angels did that year.
Angels proceeded to take Trout 4 picks before the Yankees very own supplemental pick at #25. Yankees ended up selecting Slade Heathcott at #29 instead.
If the Angels had chosen to resign K-Rod or Teixera that year its likely Mike Trout would have been a Yankee or even a Met.


Everything about this is so painful to read.
FWIW both Trout and Harper were big Yankees fans growing up  
Greg from LI : 6/30/2015 10:25 am : link
If they ever snagged one I'd bet it would be Harper. I truly don't believe he has any intention of staying in DC long term.
...  
26.2 : 6/30/2015 10:37 am : link
regarding Harper - us nats fans are all but certain that he will bolt for the Yankees when he's a FA (I believe after the 2017 season - so a lot could happen between then and now). we're hoping he'll sign some kind of extension before then, but I doubt it. not after what he's doing this season.
A NJ kid  
Canton : 6/30/2015 10:38 am : link
Highlights starting with the draft and all his "firsts" in the big leagues.
Link - ( New Window )
Unbelievable hops  
Canton : 6/30/2015 10:39 am : link
stealing homeruns
IIRC  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/30/2015 10:41 am : link
The Angels had back-to-back picks in that draft. While they took Trout with the pick they got from us for Teixeira, I thought I read somewhere that they would have taken him 24th if they only had one pick but it was about slotting or something like that. Someone like Dunedin would be better able to answer that, though.
RE: IIRC  
Greg from LI : 6/30/2015 10:42 am : link
In comment 12349018 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
The Angels had back-to-back picks in that draft. While they took Trout with the pick they got from us for Teixeira, I thought I read somewhere that they would have taken him 24th if they only had one pick but it was about slotting or something like that. Someone like Dunedin would be better able to answer that, though.


I do remember that - someone from the Angels said it wouldn't have mattered if the Yankees hadn't signed Teixeira because Trout would have been the pick even if they only had one pick.
RE: RE: Picked  
GentleGiant : 6/30/2015 10:52 am : link
In comment 12348990 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 12348902 CromartiesKid21 said:


Quote:


with the supplemental draft choice from the Teixera signing. Trout was the Yankees target all along that year as not many scouts bother to look into North East prospects but the Angels did that year.
Angels proceeded to take Trout 4 picks before the Yankees very own supplemental pick at #25. Yankees ended up selecting Slade Heathcott at #29 instead.
If the Angels had chosen to resign K-Rod or Teixera that year its likely Mike Trout would have been a Yankee or even a Met.



Everything about this is so painful to read.



It shouldn't be, the Yankees won a WS with Teixeira playing a pivotal role so even if it did somehow preclude them from landing Trout it still worked out. The Angels haven't even won a playoff game in the 4 years Trout has been an all-world talent for them.
He was drafted with a compensation pick  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/30/2015 11:04 am : link
Not a supplemental pick. He was taken with the 25th pick, which was the Yankees regular draft pick that they gave up for signing Teixeira.
RE: FWIW both Trout and Harper were big Yankees fans growing up  
Victor in CT : 6/30/2015 11:07 am : link
In comment 12348996 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they ever snagged one I'd bet it would be Harper. I truly don't believe he has any intention of staying in DC long term.


That figures, Harper is the one who always gets hurt. :-)

Harper  
Deej : 6/30/2015 11:20 am : link
is a Boras client. Historically, he has steered his clients to actually get to UFA rather than resigning long term while still under exclusive team control.
Trout..  
BillKo : 6/30/2015 11:36 am : link
is the best player on the planet.

And the kid carries himself the right way, which in today's age of athletes, is almost as impressive...........
He's gonna be good someday  
old man : 6/30/2015 12:22 pm : link
;-)
I just wish Trout played on the East Coast  
gmen9892 : 6/30/2015 1:04 pm : link
So that I could watch him play more often. Guy is and absolute monster.
Trout is a great player  
nygnyy274 : 6/30/2015 2:03 pm : link
But he seems to ware down at the end of the year. I would take Stanton over him any day. I also dropped Trout last year for Michael Cuddyer in the fantasy championship and that moved payed off for me,Trout was in an awful slump that entire month and Cuddyer went on a tear for me for a few games and I won the league because of it. It was a nice 100 bucks in my pocket from yahoo.
I love Stanton  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/30/2015 2:06 pm : link
but Trout is so much better than him.

Bryce Harper was the best player in the game before he got hurt though. Trout is a better all-around player but Harper's bat is just insane.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/30/2015 2:10 pm : link
No one hits the ball harder than Stanton but you're nuts if you'd take him over Trout.
RE: I love Stanton  
BillKo : 6/30/2015 2:11 pm : link
In comment 12349322 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
but Trout is so much better than him.

Bryce Harper was the best player in the game before he got hurt though. Trout is a better all-around player but Harper's bat is just insane.


Trout is better all around, but Harper is the best in the game?

His bat is THAT much better than Trout?
the way Harper was hitting before he got hurt?  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/30/2015 2:15 pm : link
Absolutely.

Harper had a 221 OPS+ through 70 games which is as close to Barry Bonds territory as anyone has reached since the man himself was roided out of his mind.

Now I don't think Harper can maintain a 200+ OPS+, but it speaks to his greatness at the plate that he broke out in such an incredible fashion.
I think Trout and Harper are 1a and 1b  
RasputinPrime : 6/30/2015 2:17 pm : link
and health will dictate who has a better career.
comparing Trout and Harper's triple slashes  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/30/2015 2:18 pm : link
.300/.390/.583
.339/.465/.715

I'd still take Trout #1 if we are having a Franchise Draft. Trout has been the best player in the game for years and is simply more proven than Harper. But as far as this season goes, Harper was on a completely different level at the plate before he got hurt.
RE: comparing Trout and Harper's triple slashes  
RasputinPrime : 6/30/2015 2:39 pm : link
In comment 12349333 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
.300/.390/.583
.339/.465/.715

I'd still take Trout #1 if we are having a Franchise Draft. Trout has been the best player in the game for years and is simply more proven than Harper. But as far as this season goes, Harper was on a completely different level at the plate before he got hurt.


Reminds me of Guerrero vs. Pujols back a decade. Vlad had more raw talent but you had the feeling he would never harness it consistently. That made Pujols the better player. Same is likely to apply to Trout here.
Osi....  
BillKo : 6/30/2015 2:40 pm : link
you're making your basis on simply half a season. On that...I'd agree. But half a season doesn't make him the better player (which we concur on).

In fact, Trout buries Harper over the last three years.

And now Harper is hurt.....

I think Trout is amazing  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/30/2015 2:47 pm : link
After the first month of watching Trout, I was close to posting a "Mike Trout: Baseball Jordan?" thread. I was sold on him from the start. I've started atleast a couple of "Mike Trout is amazing" threads over the years. Trust me, I think the guy is a phenomenal ballplayer and I like him as a person a hell of a lot better than Harper.

Over the past handful of seasons there is no question that Trout was miles and miles ahead of Harper.

But what Harper was doing at the plate this year before he got hurt was nothing short of preposterous. Sure it was only a half-season, but Trout has never hit that level for a half-season in his entire career.

Trout is a more complete player since he can field and run the bases better. And Trout has been by far the better player over the previous handful of seasons. But before he got hurt this year, Harper was the best player in baseball because of what he was doing at the plate.
RE: Trout is a great player  
GMENGianni : 6/30/2015 2:52 pm : link
In comment 12349315 nygnyy274 said:
Quote:
But he seems to ware down at the end of the year. I would take Stanton over him any day. I also dropped Trout last year for Michael Cuddyer in the fantasy championship and that moved payed off for me,Trout was in an awful slump that entire month and Cuddyer went on a tear for me for a few games and I won the league because of it. It was a nice 100 bucks in my pocket from yahoo.


Stanton? He is not a 5 tool player like Mike Trout. Stanton is 5 tool, yes, but not even close to Trout. Trout is the best player on this Earth and the only one close to him is Harper.
RE: RE: Trout is a great player  
RasputinPrime : 6/30/2015 3:01 pm : link
In comment 12349380 GMENGianni said:
Quote:
In comment 12349315 nygnyy274 said:


Quote:


But he seems to ware down at the end of the year. I would take Stanton over him any day. I also dropped Trout last year for Michael Cuddyer in the fantasy championship and that moved payed off for me,Trout was in an awful slump that entire month and Cuddyer went on a tear for me for a few games and I won the league because of it. It was a nice 100 bucks in my pocket from yahoo.



Stanton? He is not a 5 tool player like Mike Trout. Stanton is 5 tool, yes, but not even close to Trout. Trout is the best player on this Earth and the only one close to him is Harper.


Stanton is only a five tool player because of assumptions about the proportionality of his lumber.
thought this was interesting  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/30/2015 4:56 pm : link
obviously, fangraphs WAR is not the only thing to look at when comparing players ,but I do think it provides the most most complete snapshot over any other individual metric.

Mike Trout: 8/7/91. Played 40 games in 2011
Bryce Harper 10/16/92. Came up in 2012
Gian Stanton: 11/8/89. Played 100 games in 2010

Since the start of 2012, when Harper came up, here are the top 10 position players in fangraphs WAR (and Harper).

1. Mike Trout: 33.1 (530 games)
2. McCutcheon: 24.7
3. Miguel Cabrera: 22.4
4. Buster Posey: 21.0
5. Josh Donaldson: 19.9
6. Robinson Cano: 18.5
7. Alex Gordon: 18.4
8. Adrian Beltre: 18.3
9. Paul Goldschmidt: 18.0
10. Giancarlo Stanton: 17.8 (458 games)
...
21. Bryce Harper: 14.9 (427 games)

Now, this isn't meant to be an official ranking of the "best players in the game" because this doesn't factor in injuries, and doesn't consider that some players are in their primes while others are younger players. Harper I think is the one that is most short-changed here because I think he's just starting to take off.

Stanton won't be 26 until November, Trout turns 24 in 5 weeks, and Harper turns 23 in October. These are all young stars with huge futures ahead of them.

But it is mind-blowing how far ahead Trout measures out compared not only to young stars, but to the rest of the sport.

For those interested, the top 5 pitchers per Fangraphs measurement (which relies heavily on FIP and has its own issues)

1. Clayotn Kershaw, 23.3
2. Felix Hernandez: 19.7
3. Max Scherzer: 19.5
4. David Price: 18.5
5. Chris Sale: 17.8
.  
arcarsenal : 6/30/2015 5:07 pm : link
Trout was like a 10 WAR player right out of the gates. That's basically unprecedented.
over the past 20 years ('96)  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/30/2015 11:41 pm : link
Code:
10+ WAR seasons
Bonds ('02): 12.7
Bonds ('01): 12.5
Bonds ('04): 11.9

Trout ('13): 10.5
Trout ('12): 10.3
Bonds ('03): 10.2
A-Rod ('02): 10.0


Trout came out of the gate as a historic player. The guy is special. Only peak A-Rod and Cyborg Bonds had double digit fangraphs WAR seasons from the past 20 years. Early 00's Bonds is one of the most dominant athletes in the history of sports, I realize he cheated but his performance at that time is the closest we'll ever get to modern Babe Ruth. For a young Trout to immediately step into the sport and be the best thing the game has seen in a long long time besides freakazoid Bonds is just mindblowing.

That being said, Trout's main strength is his all-around game. That game last night vs. the Yankees, if you watched that you knew you were seeing a modern Mays type who can impact the game in so many ways. His hitting by itself is amazing but not something mindblowing.

Trout's peak wRC+ (better OPS+, fantastic stat) season was when he put up a 176 mark in 2013. That only rates as the 28th best wRC+ season from the past 20 years according to Fangraphs.

These are the only 200+ wRC+ seasons from the past 20 seasons

Code:
200+ wRC+
Bonds ('02): 244
Bonds ('01): 235
Bonds ('04): 233

Harper ('15): 217 (70 games)
Bonds ('03): 212
McGwire ('98): 205


Now I expect Harper's hitting to dip some, it's almost impossible to remain at the level he's been at for the 1st half of this season. But the fact that he broke out LIKE THIS is just ridiculous.

When Harper was being hyped, I wondered how much higher than Ryan Braun his ceiling was. I thought Harper could be a better hitter but how much better? Braun was an absolute beast of a player in '11 and '12.

37 HR -- 112 RBI -- .326/.394/.596 (165 wRC+) -- 7.2 WAR

That's what he averaged from '11-'12, those are incredible numbers. Braun led the league in WAR and was 2nd to Cabrera (171) in wRC+ over those two years.

If Harper ended up peaking as Braun but stayed at that level for longer than just the 2 that Braun stayed at, people would be perfectly satisfied with his performance and consider him as a player who lived up to the hype.

50 HR -- 122 RBI -- .340/.464/.715 (217 wRC+) -- 10.3 WAR

That's what Harper is on pace for even accounting for the missed games. Now I doubt he was going to be able to stay at that level for this entire season but THAT's his potential at the plate. And it's a tier or two above what Braun was doing. Braun also stole 30 bases a season for the Brewers those 2 years but that doesn't come close to making up for Harper's edge at the plate.

If 22 year old Harper can do this for half a season, I don't think it's out of the question that a 25 year old Harper could do this over an entire season.

All these pitchers getting hurt sucks, but Harper and Trout look like they're going to be generational talents. Trout already is and Harper was flashing it before he got hurt this year. I really didn't think Harper had this in him. Hopefully he stays healthy and makes this a legit rivalry for league supremacy.
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