the flag isn't about hate? Nooooooo of course not.
Oh give it a break. Because of my father’s job I lived a good portion of my youth in the south, and can tell you from firsthand experience that the confederate flag has different meaning to different people. For most people from the south it is a symbol of southern pride and heritage, for many in the African American community it is understandably a symbol of oppression, discrimination and slavery, and for a very small minority it is a symbol of their hate (KKK, Neo-Nazis, Skinheads, etc…). The haters don’t need a flag to hate.
Are people still defending the flag? It's a flag that was used during a war that was based on slavery & then re-appeared during the '50s & '60s during the Civil Rights Movement.
It's a symbol of racism and hatred.
There are a lot of myths and hateful rhetoric... Â
about the Confederate flag. As a 'symbol' it becomes and object of feelings over facts. The idea that the current Confederate flag re-appeared is a false narrative...
The Confederacy created several battle flags to differentiate the "Stars and Bars" flag of the Confederacy from the U.S. flag. So, there were actually a variety of battle flags used by the Confederacy but the one we all know as the "Confederate flag" was carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and a few other isolated Confederate armies. By far, it was not the most prolific of the Confederate battle flags.
•The flag didn't become a symbol of the South as a whole during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It became a symbol in the years following the end of the war. For the most part, older veterans of the Confederacy adopted it as their symbol and it was used in Confederate monuments throughout the South (starting in the 1880s).
Unfortunately, the "Confederate Flag" first became used as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s. It was used as a symbol for the extremist wing of the Southern Democrat party called the "Dixiecrat Party" They broke away from the Democratic Party over segregation and a national effort to repeal Jim Crow laws. It was after that it began to be used by segregationist groups and as a symbol against the civil rights movement.
I know people have a lot of feelings about the Confederate Flag, but it's important that some understanding of the facts behind the 'symbol' before you go blathering about your moral superiority. Hating has many forms... ignorance is the common theme of haters.
RE: There are a lot of myths and hateful rhetoric... Â
about the Confederate flag. As a 'symbol' it becomes and object of feelings over facts. The idea that the current Confederate flag re-appeared is a false narrative...
The Confederacy created several battle flags to differentiate the "Stars and Bars" flag of the Confederacy from the U.S. flag. So, there were actually a variety of battle flags used by the Confederacy but the one we all know as the "Confederate flag" was carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and a few other isolated Confederate armies. By far, it was not the most prolific of the Confederate battle flags.
•The flag didn't become a symbol of the South as a whole during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It became a symbol in the years following the end of the war. For the most part, older veterans of the Confederacy adopted it as their symbol and it was used in Confederate monuments throughout the South (starting in the 1880s).
Unfortunately, the "Confederate Flag" first became used as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s. It was used as a symbol for the extremist wing of the Southern Democrat party called the "Dixiecrat Party" They broke away from the Democratic Party over segregation and a national effort to repeal Jim Crow laws. It was after that it began to be used by segregationist groups and as a symbol against the civil rights movement.
I know people have a lot of feelings about the Confederate Flag, but it's important that some understanding of the facts behind the 'symbol' before you go blathering about your moral superiority. Hating has many forms... ignorance is the common theme of haters.
Regardless of any and all of that - ALL Confederate flags/symbology should have been deemed illegal immediately after the Civil War, just as Nazi symbology was banned in Germany after WW2.
ALL Confederate Flags, battle or otherwise ARE FLAGS OF TREASON. More Federal American troops killed by these most despicable of ALL Americans in our history than by ANY other army, including Germany or Japan in WW2.
Think about that.
This IS a teachable moment. Americans who are so quick to throw the word 'TREASON' around need to really take a look at what the Civil War truly represented - a literal, bloody, murderous, treasonous rebellion that killed over 600,000 troops AND an iconic President - for people so freaked out over Al Queda and ISIS, I find it amazing how willingly Americans trivialize the Civil War.
Southern Pride kiss my ass. Stars and Bars had no business ever flying in this country after 1865.
Also, this just in: "Pastors receive threatening letters"... Â
Female AME Pastors In South Carolina Receive Threatening Letters
Two Clarendon County, South Carolina pastors say they have been targeted with threats of violence just because they are women. The writer identified him or herself as Apostle Prophet Harry Leon Fleming, and said in the letter "the woman cannot be head of the man in church, home and the world."
"The Devil always use a woman to bring down a good man," the letter states.
In one section of the letter it states, "…you and your children will die."
about the Confederate flag. As a 'symbol' it becomes and object of feelings over facts. The idea that the current Confederate flag re-appeared is a false narrative...
The Confederacy created several battle flags to differentiate the "Stars and Bars" flag of the Confederacy from the U.S. flag. So, there were actually a variety of battle flags used by the Confederacy but the one we all know as the "Confederate flag" was carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and a few other isolated Confederate armies. By far, it was not the most prolific of the Confederate battle flags.
•The flag didn't become a symbol of the South as a whole during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It became a symbol in the years following the end of the war. For the most part, older veterans of the Confederacy adopted it as their symbol and it was used in Confederate monuments throughout the South (starting in the 1880s).
Unfortunately, the "Confederate Flag" first became used as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s. It was used as a symbol for the extremist wing of the Southern Democrat party called the "Dixiecrat Party" They broke away from the Democratic Party over segregation and a national effort to repeal Jim Crow laws. It was after that it began to be used by segregationist groups and as a symbol against the civil rights movement.
I know people have a lot of feelings about the Confederate Flag, but it's important that some understanding of the facts behind the 'symbol' before you go blathering about your moral superiority. Hating has many forms... ignorance is the common theme of haters.
Regardless of any and all of that - ALL Confederate flags/symbology should have been deemed illegal immediately after the Civil War, just as Nazi symbology was banned in Germany after WW2.
ALL Confederate Flags, battle or otherwise ARE FLAGS OF TREASON. More Federal American troops killed by these most despicable of ALL Americans in our history than by ANY other army, including Germany or Japan in WW2.
Think about that.
This IS a teachable moment. Americans who are so quick to throw the word 'TREASON' around need to really take a look at what the Civil War truly represented - a literal, bloody, murderous, treasonous rebellion that killed over 600,000 troops AND an iconic President - for people so freaked out over Al Queda and ISIS, I find it amazing how willingly Americans trivialize the Civil War.
Southern Pride kiss my ass. Stars and Bars had no business ever flying in this country after 1865.
In America, the default is to protect liberty. I'd be happy to never see that flag again, and as I've said elsewhere, I'm averse to it, but to make it *illegal* seems a dangerous precedent. We aren't Germany.
Shall we also make illegal Swastikas, Iron Crosses, etc.?
The point of it being a symbol for treason seems to have merit Â
at least, to me. I don't think you can make it illegal, but to have the flag of a treasonous state flying on government buildings, that absolutely can be forbidden.
people will object to the Confederate flag flying on Gov't building, but it is going a little far when people call for banning the General Lee and any general merchandise.
Gov't shouldn't validate the flag, but don't censor it for the populace.
the flag of the confederacy is the "Stars and Bars." The current flag is a battle flag. If you're about banning flags of treason, you'll have to include the most iconic flag of the revolutionary war, the Gasdsen Flag.
The flag of the confederacy (the Confederate States of America)
It's fine to be offended by whatever you choose. It's not my place to tell you what you should be offended by. At least know a little about what you're offended by.
RE: RE: RE: There are a lot of myths and hateful rhetoric... Â
Shall we also make illegal Swastikas, Iron Crosses, etc.?
Hell no. No symbol should be made illegal. BUT, we should all agree to make fun of the douchebags displaying all those symbols, and the government should definitelt not be issuing license plates with them on there, or flying those flags in public buildings.
RE: The point of it being a symbol for treason seems to have merit Â
at least, to me. I don't think you can make it illegal, but to have the flag of a treasonous state flying on government buildings, that absolutely can be forbidden.
I'm still unclear as to whether it actually was treason. Someone tried to explain it to me here but it seemed like there is ambiguity about the answer.
at least, to me. I don't think you can make it illegal, but to have the flag of a treasonous state flying on government buildings, that absolutely can be forbidden.
I'm still unclear as to whether it actually was treason. Someone tried to explain it to me here but it seemed like there is ambiguity about the answer.
Seem's like they nailed it to me.
"Treason: the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government"
RE: RE: RE: The point of it being a symbol for treason seems to have merit Â
at least, to me. I don't think you can make it illegal, but to have the flag of a treasonous state flying on government buildings, that absolutely can be forbidden.
I'm still unclear as to whether it actually was treason. Someone tried to explain it to me here but it seemed like there is ambiguity about the answer.
Seem's like they nailed it to me.
"Treason: the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government"
They did none of those things.
This idea that you can boil the Civil War down... Â
to something so simplistic troubles me. It was the defining event in the history of the South, still referred to as "The War" long after WWI and II (which most of the rest of the country referred to as The War). Viewed objectively the war was fought over slavery, even if some of its Southern participants felt otherwise. And certainly the treatment of Southern blacks for a century plus after the war was tragic. But the conflation of secession with treason is something that came after that. The country had seen several secessionist movements prior to the Civil War, it took the war to finally determine that the Union was indissoluble. To reach back through history and to effectively impose our view of it 150 years on, to turn the flag into something that can only symbolize hatred, to airbrush out monuments to war dead, to valor and sacrifice, and to do so motivated at least in part by modern-day grievances, just looks Orwellian.
(maybe tomorrow for the lucky people who don't happen to work for Dictator Andy...sigh, no holiday for us) we celebrate America's ultimate treason. Maybe make the stars and stripes illegal?
why were none of the South's generals tried for and executed for treason?
Well first and foremost most of them were dead. But they also understood the need for reconciliation, not necessarily for moral reasons but because they didn't want to chase holdouts the length of Appalachia for 20 years.
the flag of the confederacy is the "Stars and Bars." The current flag is a battle flag. If you're about banning flags of treason, you'll have to include the most iconic flag of the revolutionary war, the Gasdsen Flag.
The flag of the confederacy (the Confederate States of America)
It's fine to be offended by whatever you choose. It's not my place to tell you what you should be offended by. At least know a little about what you're offended by.
I don't see why the flag of the army of the confederacy should change anyone's stance.
So, instead of it being the official flag of the illegitimate government, it's the flag of the army that killed Americans trying to uphold and defend the US government.
If it was treason
buford : 1:46 pm : link : reply
why were none of the South's generals tried for and executed for treason?
I read things like this and the next day I wonder why both my palm and my forehead are bruised.
I get a mental image of "Glory, Glory Allelujah" being sung while Stork from Animal House is stuttering through a speech to the Dean why they didn't deserve double secret probation.
Ah yes. The poor opressed majority.
Quote:
the flag isn't about hate? Nooooooo of course not.
Oh give it a break. Because of my father’s job I lived a good portion of my youth in the south, and can tell you from firsthand experience that the confederate flag has different meaning to different people. For most people from the south it is a symbol of southern pride and heritage, for many in the African American community it is understandably a symbol of oppression, discrimination and slavery, and for a very small minority it is a symbol of their hate (KKK, Neo-Nazis, Skinheads, etc…). The haters don’t need a flag to hate.
Are people still defending the flag? It's a flag that was used during a war that was based on slavery & then re-appeared during the '50s & '60s during the Civil Rights Movement.
It's a symbol of racism and hatred.
The Confederacy created several battle flags to differentiate the "Stars and Bars" flag of the Confederacy from the U.S. flag. So, there were actually a variety of battle flags used by the Confederacy but the one we all know as the "Confederate flag" was carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and a few other isolated Confederate armies. By far, it was not the most prolific of the Confederate battle flags.
•The flag didn't become a symbol of the South as a whole during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It became a symbol in the years following the end of the war. For the most part, older veterans of the Confederacy adopted it as their symbol and it was used in Confederate monuments throughout the South (starting in the 1880s).
Unfortunately, the "Confederate Flag" first became used as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s. It was used as a symbol for the extremist wing of the Southern Democrat party called the "Dixiecrat Party" They broke away from the Democratic Party over segregation and a national effort to repeal Jim Crow laws. It was after that it began to be used by segregationist groups and as a symbol against the civil rights movement.
I know people have a lot of feelings about the Confederate Flag, but it's important that some understanding of the facts behind the 'symbol' before you go blathering about your moral superiority. Hating has many forms... ignorance is the common theme of haters.
The Confederacy created several battle flags to differentiate the "Stars and Bars" flag of the Confederacy from the U.S. flag. So, there were actually a variety of battle flags used by the Confederacy but the one we all know as the "Confederate flag" was carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and a few other isolated Confederate armies. By far, it was not the most prolific of the Confederate battle flags.
•The flag didn't become a symbol of the South as a whole during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It became a symbol in the years following the end of the war. For the most part, older veterans of the Confederacy adopted it as their symbol and it was used in Confederate monuments throughout the South (starting in the 1880s).
Unfortunately, the "Confederate Flag" first became used as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s. It was used as a symbol for the extremist wing of the Southern Democrat party called the "Dixiecrat Party" They broke away from the Democratic Party over segregation and a national effort to repeal Jim Crow laws. It was after that it began to be used by segregationist groups and as a symbol against the civil rights movement.
I know people have a lot of feelings about the Confederate Flag, but it's important that some understanding of the facts behind the 'symbol' before you go blathering about your moral superiority. Hating has many forms... ignorance is the common theme of haters.
Regardless of any and all of that - ALL Confederate flags/symbology should have been deemed illegal immediately after the Civil War, just as Nazi symbology was banned in Germany after WW2.
ALL Confederate Flags, battle or otherwise ARE FLAGS OF TREASON. More Federal American troops killed by these most despicable of ALL Americans in our history than by ANY other army, including Germany or Japan in WW2.
Think about that.
This IS a teachable moment. Americans who are so quick to throw the word 'TREASON' around need to really take a look at what the Civil War truly represented - a literal, bloody, murderous, treasonous rebellion that killed over 600,000 troops AND an iconic President - for people so freaked out over Al Queda and ISIS, I find it amazing how willingly Americans trivialize the Civil War.
Southern Pride kiss my ass. Stars and Bars had no business ever flying in this country after 1865.
Two Clarendon County, South Carolina pastors say they have been targeted with threats of violence just because they are women. The writer identified him or herself as Apostle Prophet Harry Leon Fleming, and said in the letter "the woman cannot be head of the man in church, home and the world."
"The Devil always use a woman to bring down a good man," the letter states.
In one section of the letter it states, "…you and your children will die."
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
about the Confederate flag. As a 'symbol' it becomes and object of feelings over facts. The idea that the current Confederate flag re-appeared is a false narrative...
The Confederacy created several battle flags to differentiate the "Stars and Bars" flag of the Confederacy from the U.S. flag. So, there were actually a variety of battle flags used by the Confederacy but the one we all know as the "Confederate flag" was carried by the Army of Northern Virginia and a few other isolated Confederate armies. By far, it was not the most prolific of the Confederate battle flags.
•The flag didn't become a symbol of the South as a whole during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. It became a symbol in the years following the end of the war. For the most part, older veterans of the Confederacy adopted it as their symbol and it was used in Confederate monuments throughout the South (starting in the 1880s).
Unfortunately, the "Confederate Flag" first became used as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s. It was used as a symbol for the extremist wing of the Southern Democrat party called the "Dixiecrat Party" They broke away from the Democratic Party over segregation and a national effort to repeal Jim Crow laws. It was after that it began to be used by segregationist groups and as a symbol against the civil rights movement.
I know people have a lot of feelings about the Confederate Flag, but it's important that some understanding of the facts behind the 'symbol' before you go blathering about your moral superiority. Hating has many forms... ignorance is the common theme of haters.
Regardless of any and all of that - ALL Confederate flags/symbology should have been deemed illegal immediately after the Civil War, just as Nazi symbology was banned in Germany after WW2.
ALL Confederate Flags, battle or otherwise ARE FLAGS OF TREASON. More Federal American troops killed by these most despicable of ALL Americans in our history than by ANY other army, including Germany or Japan in WW2.
Think about that.
This IS a teachable moment. Americans who are so quick to throw the word 'TREASON' around need to really take a look at what the Civil War truly represented - a literal, bloody, murderous, treasonous rebellion that killed over 600,000 troops AND an iconic President - for people so freaked out over Al Queda and ISIS, I find it amazing how willingly Americans trivialize the Civil War.
Southern Pride kiss my ass. Stars and Bars had no business ever flying in this country after 1865.
In America, the default is to protect liberty. I'd be happy to never see that flag again, and as I've said elsewhere, I'm averse to it, but to make it *illegal* seems a dangerous precedent. We aren't Germany.
Shall we also make illegal Swastikas, Iron Crosses, etc.?
Gov't shouldn't validate the flag, but don't censor it for the populace.
The flag of the confederacy (the Confederate States of America)
It's fine to be offended by whatever you choose. It's not my place to tell you what you should be offended by. At least know a little about what you're offended by.
Quote:
In comment 12352781 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
Shall we also make illegal Swastikas, Iron Crosses, etc.?
Hell no. No symbol should be made illegal. BUT, we should all agree to make fun of the douchebags displaying all those symbols, and the government should definitelt not be issuing license plates with them on there, or flying those flags in public buildings.
I'm still unclear as to whether it actually was treason. Someone tried to explain it to me here but it seemed like there is ambiguity about the answer.
Quote:
at least, to me. I don't think you can make it illegal, but to have the flag of a treasonous state flying on government buildings, that absolutely can be forbidden.
I'm still unclear as to whether it actually was treason. Someone tried to explain it to me here but it seemed like there is ambiguity about the answer.
Seem's like they nailed it to me.
"Treason: the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government"
Quote:
In comment 12353539 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
at least, to me. I don't think you can make it illegal, but to have the flag of a treasonous state flying on government buildings, that absolutely can be forbidden.
I'm still unclear as to whether it actually was treason. Someone tried to explain it to me here but it seemed like there is ambiguity about the answer.
Seem's like they nailed it to me.
"Treason: the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government"
They did none of those things.
Well first and foremost most of them were dead. But they also understood the need for reconciliation, not necessarily for moral reasons but because they didn't want to chase holdouts the length of Appalachia for 20 years.
The flag of the confederacy (the Confederate States of America)
It's fine to be offended by whatever you choose. It's not my place to tell you what you should be offended by. At least know a little about what you're offended by.
I don't see why the flag of the army of the confederacy should change anyone's stance.
So, instead of it being the official flag of the illegitimate government, it's the flag of the army that killed Americans trying to uphold and defend the US government.
buford : 1:46 pm : link : reply
why were none of the South's generals tried for and executed for treason?
I read things like this and the next day I wonder why both my palm and my forehead are bruised.
I get a mental image of "Glory, Glory Allelujah" being sung while Stork from Animal House is stuttering through a speech to the Dean why they didn't deserve double secret probation.
Link - ( New Window )