If so then why do they delay in signing him to a long term deal? Has there been any news on talks at least? Are they waiting for? Are they happy letting him play on a one year franchise tag deal? I only ask due to the long term signing deadline is in 2 weeks and it would cost them 14.78 million for him to play under the tag. They could lower that number to say 10 mil per year if they sign him to a long term deal.
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The question is how much trust they feel they can place in his work ethic and spine.
He's going to play on the Tag this season.
The reality is, you sometimes have to overpay for guys like this, because there aren't many of them out there, and you also have to take a bit of a leap of faith on the player and his commitment once the $$ is already in the bank.
Tying up that much money in one player makes no sense, it makes you hostage to an injury, JPP at 14 mil. is not as good as say three very good players at 5 mil. each.
His talent says that he is a top flight player but it doesn't translate to the field enough to warrant a top DE payday.
He plays with a tag in 2015 and walks after that, regardless of how well he plays.
We should sticky it.
Let me ask you this, why would you want the team to make him one of the top five paid DE in the league? He is not even close to top 5, and I am not sure I consider him top 10
$15M is a lot for 1 season even if he plays well. It's up to OO and Moore to show they can step in. Moore really needs to get better vs. the run. This will be his 3rd year in the NFL so I hope he's strong enough to hold the POA.
Some team will pay JPP a fortune. I wouldn't. 2 real good players at $7M per would probably help more than JPP alone.
Problem is, JPP is a double edged sword....
Teams are tight up against the cap and a lot of players, especially guys on the LOS suffer some significant injury during their first contract that can impact their play under a second contract. GMs want a hometown discount or at least to resign them at what the team see as market value. If that player demands premium money, he can be franchised until the team finds a replacement and then he can walk.
Unfortunately they are interchangeable parts in the NFL.
A very good, but not great player. You can't pay him top 5-10 money. As mrvax said, pay 2 guys $7MM per each.
How much time left to make another run with Eli? The quickest path to get there would be to lock JPP up and hope Spags can rebuild the next generation of our pass rush with Odi and Moore alongside. But you exit him and that point suddenly looks much much further away. There are things in place already on the offensive side, outside of needs at OL, but it is the guys up front who make it work on the other side of the ball. Moving him also probably means investing more high draft picks at the position which could otherwise address other needs. I say this because you aren't finding that kind of pass rushers in the FA market without spending the cash, if any are available at all, and let's not forget, the top rookie pass rushers are often more 3-4 LB types, so that ain't easy either.
IMO, this is a situation where you may just have to over pay a little due to the significance/fit/importance to your team.
I've heard a lot about him...
All this hype of JPP is reminding me of the Ron Dayne years where every single damn off season everyone would get excited, and to top it off he was seemingly a all pro during the preseason games! Then of course, once the season rolled around he was horrible as usual.
I am not saying JPP is as a big of a disappointment in anyway compared to what Ron Dayne was, but the off season talk about him is just as high as usual. If he disappoints this season, how many more will you deal with and still promote him as some elite football player.
I am not ready to give up on him yet completely, but if he doesn't post 10+ sacks this year and be strong in the run game as he was last year then I think its time for him to go. Either way, if he has a poor season he is still going to command a lot more money than he is worth on the open market. I guess if the Giants see what they are liking out of him by mid-season they will work something out, if not then he is as good as gone.
JPP = Ron Dayne
Unfortunately for you there isn't a delete button here because that is the dumbest fucking thing I have heard on BBI. Maybe somebody has topped it. Maybe somethingin the early years. I've only been here since 2001. But that kind of comparison is a rare kind of stupid.
Who the hell in your lifetime puts that up "consistently"?
Strahan had 3 15 sack seasons in his career.
Richard Dent had 2.
Neil Smith had 1.
Howie Long not even one.
But that JPP slacker can't do it consistently. Clealry he's Ron Dayne.
T. Suggs will go to the HOF and has 1 year over 12 sacks, none at 15
J. Peppers has had 2 seasons over 12 none at 15
M. Williams has no 15 sack seasons and in his last 7 years been over 12 twice
R. Mathis had 1 yr over 11.5
D. Freeney in the yr after his lone 15 sack season had more than 11 once in the next 10 years
J. Abraham had 1 year over 13 sacks
L. Oneil 2 yrs over 12 and 1 15 sack season
J. taylor did it once and still had only 6 of 15 yrs over 9.5
C. Haley had 1 season over 12.5
I don't know but my hope is he plays well this year and the Giants make the right decision on him. If we get a #3 comp pick for him so be it.
why weren't they prepared to replace him? It was pretty obvious he was declining from his peak. It was pretty obvious he was going to want huge dollars based on his peak. It's glaringly obvious now that they're not sold on him because they're shelling out 15 mil on a show me deal instead of paying him long term.
the other side (Tuck/kiwi) was getting old and declining.
It's a position they value and spend a lot of ka-ching and high draft picks on.
so, how come the Giants look so flat footed when it comes to DE options?
more and more, it seems this Giants regime spends it's time putting out brush fires instead of getting ahead of the game or is incompetent in getting ahead of the game.
If I'm rating him on what he's shown so far I rate him as an average player who can sometimes surprise with exceptional play. So I agree with those saying the Giants are playing their cards right with JPP.
Nothing is as obvious as you claim, other than the idea that JPP - still only 26 - is going to want top dollar, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Rather than "declining from his peak," 2014 was his best season since his monster 2011. A healthy, motivated, in-shape JPP could put up even bigger numbers in 2015. Still, though, the Giants have questions when it comes to locking him up long-term for big money, and I don't blame them. If they're going sign him to a contract comparable to (or better than) what the top-tier DEs are getting, I'm sure they'd like to see him come to camp in shape (which he hasn't always done), stay healthy and motivated, play smart football, and maintain or increase the level of production he gave them last year.
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Statements like these are just plain silly. What team doesn't have its share of "brush fires" in the offseason? Do you think the Patriots were happy to have to replace their entire secondary? Do you think the Seahawks aren't concerned about keeping Wilson? Do you think the Cowboys are happy that Bryant is making a lot of noise about his future, short-term and long-term? How about the Chiefs and Justin Houston? Is everything hunky-dory in Philly and Washington? Pity the poor Broncos who lost not only their starting LT, but the TE they drafted to replace Julius Thomas. I could go on and on but it would be pointless. Anyone who writes something like that has already made up his mind about the Giants' front office.
right now we have no idea who can man the other end, or whether they'll pan out, let alone replace JPP. there's a lot of hope, but there's a lot of room for disappointment, too.
The Giants are very much flat footed right now. The anchor on the line is a guy who they don't even know if they want to commit to long term. you said it yourself. they're shelling out 15 mil this year because they're not ready to replace him.
2014 was a rebound year for him. that means he was declining from his peak. the Giants got a better year from him and they still don't know if they want him.
no team is ever going to be 100 % ahead of the game. but we've had a lot of years of the core eroding through very meh drafting. thus we're bringing in FA Ol, RB, CB, LB, pretty much everywhere. that's what I mean by fighting brushfires. Our original plans for continuity are routinely failing.
Moore is a guy who only saw the field when every other option was carted off on a stretcher. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect more from a second year guy, but that's life in today's NFL. He's a high draft pick who we have hopes for, but very few people are definitively predicting him being a solid starter. the talk overall on the DE position is JPP, and a lot of rotation second string/borderline first string/potential but who knows if the potential will ever be attained. When there were a couple of years of JPP questionable years, Tuck/Kiwi getting older, being in the DE position we are now is flat footed.
You could replace "very meh drafting" with "an inordinate amount of catastrophic injuries," but you won't because you're just looking for things to bitch about. Except for the Packers, I'd say the Giants are on par with the rest of the league when it comes to free agent activity, and their recent drafts are looking pretty good. But what do you know about the Giants' "original plans for continuity," and what does that mean, anyway?
If a 3rd round pick never amounts to more than a situational pass-rusher and core special-teamer, I'd say the Giants got good value for him. Still, your assessment of him is pretty lame. Per snaps played, Moore was very productive, and if the issue with his shoulder is behind him, I expect that production to increase.
Why wouldn't the talk be about JPP? He's the best DE on the team and his future is in question. As for the rest of the DEs that you so cavalierly dismiss, you don't know what you have until the games are played. Guys like Wynn, Moore, and Odighizuwa may exceed their potential or they may not, but they'll all have their opportunities and it's up to them to make the most of those opportunities. That's why they were drafted/signed while JPP was still on the team. That's also why the Giants signed Ayers and Selvie, who may not be in JPP's league talent-wise, but have shown that they can play in this league.
But you still accuse the Giants of being caught flatfooted, so tell me, what would you have done in JPP's "declining years" to avoid that? Who would you have drafted? What free agents would you have signed? How would you have prepared for Life After JPP?
I agree that the team is better with him than without him. short term. long term remains to be seen.
I am criticizing them for not knowing what they have. it's what 5 years? they don't know what they have?
what would I have done? drafted a replacement. you need one for one side at minimum. I'm not NFL management material. I recognize that it's not as easy as that. but I also recognize that the Giants are not really doing that great of a job of it. which is why JPP has them over a barrel. which means I'm agreeing with you. I'm not quite sure why we seem to be in an argument when I agree with you. they don't have a replacement for him. they don't know if they want to commit long term. there are question marks at DE. even if JPP were signed long term, there's still a question on the other side. this is an area of emphasis for the Giants. and there's questions about JPP and questions about who is going to man the other side. maybe I'm over expecting what should have happened, or overselling why I expected it. but the bottom line is that DE is one huge question mark. we saw this coming. we don't know what will happen come september.
It's not a question of the Giants not knowing what they have in JPP after five years. The question is do they want to lock him up long-term on their terms or his? There are also forces in play beyond the Giants' control. See the other thread where Suh's and Robert Quinn's contracts are being discussed, along with J.J. Watt's (and I'd throw Cam Jordan's in there, too). Like every other team, the Giants do not have infinite resources at their disposal, so the correct allocation of what resources they do have is paramount. Clearly, the Giants want to keep him, since they've already put an offer on the table. It's also clear that in light of some other recent signings, JPP wants more than the Giants are willing to pay him. Whether or not they can strike a happy medium remains to be seen. In the meantime, even if they can't come to an agreement on a long-term deal in the next two weeks, he'll most likely sign his tag and play out the year...a year where it would be well worth his while to be as dominating as he can be.
You keep asking questions about the other DEs, but these questions can only be answered by seeing how they play in 2015. So, you would have already drafted JPP's replacement? Who? Other than the DEs they've already drafted (or signed), who else would you have drafted (or signed), and who would you not have drafted to add another DE? What would you have done to avoid being held over a barrel by JPP? Would you just prefer to meet his demands? If that's the case, then say so.
I just find it hard to believe that he would risk a season where he may get injured or have an "average" year.....I think he signs by the July whatever deadline.....
There is a lot of "hype" in the NFL and 2011's performance and pub still has some weight since JPP is very young still. I just don't think he's worth the $14 million we are paying him for one year BUT also understand why we are doing it (leverage for future) so only time will tell.
I mean, if during camp he is showing well and looking positive do you approach his agent with a slightly better deal? The NFL is full of injuries so big money today may be worth more than big money next year (theoretically anyway....)??
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It is the reason why they franchise tagged him. You don't pay the average DE $14.78 million to play for one season. As far as contracts are concerned, they are taken care of at the discretion of the NY Giants. There is no rush to get the deal done now.
I think the Giants would LOVE to get JPP done long-term but only if it is at a fair price. Remember, JPP was down 2012 thru early 2014. He really doesn't warrant the kind of money he imagines in his head.
There is a lot of "hype" in the NFL and 2011's performance and pub still has some weight since JPP is very young still. I just don't think he's worth the $14 million we are paying him for one year BUT also understand why we are doing it (leverage for future) so only time will tell.
I mean, if during camp he is showing well and looking positive do you approach his agent with a slightly better deal? The NFL is full of injuries so big money today may be worth more than big money next year (theoretically anyway....)??
I have no idea what kind of numbers he is looking for. Obviously he wants to make more money and he should get it. Need to see another full solid season from him. I consider 2011 a career highlight and not a yearly expectation. He is young enough to post those kind of numbers again.
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In comment 12353978 The Tempest said:
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It is the reason why they franchise tagged him. You don't pay the average DE $14.78 million to play for one season. As far as contracts are concerned, they are taken care of at the discretion of the NY Giants. There is no rush to get the deal done now.
I think the Giants would LOVE to get JPP done long-term but only if it is at a fair price. Remember, JPP was down 2012 thru early 2014. He really doesn't warrant the kind of money he imagines in his head.
There is a lot of "hype" in the NFL and 2011's performance and pub still has some weight since JPP is very young still. I just don't think he's worth the $14 million we are paying him for one year BUT also understand why we are doing it (leverage for future) so only time will tell.
I mean, if during camp he is showing well and looking positive do you approach his agent with a slightly better deal? The NFL is full of injuries so big money today may be worth more than big money next year (theoretically anyway....)??
I have no idea what kind of numbers he is looking for. Obviously he wants to make more money and he should get it. Need to see another full solid season from him. I consider 2011 a career highlight and not a yearly expectation. He is young enough to post those kind of numbers again.
Eli is a no-brainer to retain and he will be paid. But if JPP put up a 16 sack, solid run defend year with some highlight real forced fumbles and/or interception do we try to keep both him, Eli and Prince? I'm not so sure. Something has to give I'd think??