You do realize that Fulgencio Batista was dictator, right. Sure there were wealthy people in Cuba, but most of the country was dirt poor. Batista whored his country out to mobsters and other moneyed interests while his people starved.
Castro was worse, but the Cuban people rebelled for a reason.
Gary,
Check with the people that lived there even with Batista, he was just a whore for the Gringos. However the poverty you speak of must have been well hidden, in any case the revolution in Cuba was supported by the left in the US...
Citations? Sources?
Do you think people in this country outside of Miami under 35
You do realize that Fulgencio Batista was dictator, right. Sure there were wealthy people in Cuba, but most of the country was dirt poor. Batista whored his country out to mobsters and other moneyed interests while his people starved.
Castro was worse, but the Cuban people rebelled for a reason.
Gary,
Check with the people that lived there even with Batista, he was just a whore for the Gringos. However the poverty you speak of must have been well hidden, in any case the revolution in Cuba was supported by the left in the US...
I agree with establishing relations with them. It is a relic of the past. I have an uncomfortable feeling that the fugitive issue will be handled in January 2017 by a pardon. Hope this turns out to be wrong.
I doubt it. If Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich continues to be a minor sour note with respect to his legacy, the pardon of a convicted cop killer would have a significant impact on Obama's. But what they've just done is pretty much given up the possibility of extradition for, as far as I can tell, nothing.
Chesimard was charged as an accomplice to murder, not for the actual act of murder of the state trooper. The evidence in the case demonstrated that she never held or fired off any weapon.
I'm not going to argue that she's a innocent person or deserves a pardon, but the idea of cutting off commerse and relations to a neighboring country because they gave asylum over 30 years ago, to someone who never actually killed anyone, is pretty foolish.
diplomatic relations does not mean condoning the current and past behavior of the Cuban regime or releasing both parties of all historic claims (extradition requests, expropriation of land and other property). a lot has changed in the last 25 years - a communist v capitalist nuclear armaggeddon is no longer the global risk that it once was. with ISIS, other Islamic terrorist cells throughout the middle east and Africa, lone wolf/home grown terrorists, an unstable personality cult regime in north korea, China's south china sea expansionism, Russia's expansionist creep.....does anyone see Cuba as a significant threat or mortal enemy of the US anymore? while Cuba is certainly a communist relic where basic freedoms for citizens are curtailed, it does not possess a major threat to the US and vice versa.
RE: I don't think a lot of people realize that Joanne
Chesimard was charged as an accomplice to murder, not for the actual act of murder of the state trooper. The evidence in the case demonstrated that she never held or fired off any weapon.
I'm not going to argue that she's a innocent person or deserves a pardon, but the idea of cutting off commerse and relations to a neighboring country because they gave asylum over 30 years ago, to someone who never actually killed anyone, is pretty foolish.
It doesn't matter if you held the trigger. You are still guilty if you participated in the crime.
if you knowingly participated in the commission of one. But there's a substantial difference between being the person who pulls the trigger and the person who doesn't. New Jersey's criminal code didn't differentiate between the two in the 70's, and sentenced her as if she actually committed the murder herself.
You do realize that Fulgencio Batista was dictator, right. Sure there were wealthy people in Cuba, but most of the country was dirt poor. Batista whored his country out to mobsters and other moneyed interests while his people starved.
Castro was worse, but the Cuban people rebelled for a reason.
Gary,
Check with the people that lived there even with Batista, he was just a whore for the Gringos. However the poverty you speak of must have been well hidden, in any case the revolution in Cuba was supported by the left in the US...
Citations? Sources?
My own personal experience
In other areas I'd accept your experience, but not in this one. To clarify, I'm referring only to your assertion that the revolution was supported by the U.S. left. Are you averring that they were the driving force behind Castro, or what? I'm not clear on this statement.
Having an Embassy with Diplomats that can move about the country and enable the Cuban people access to the Embassy and having the big Neighbor to the North spending money and interacting with the Cuban people will spread the seeds of change directly with the people of Cuba. Isolating them has not worked, why not try something new and engage them?
I don't know that you can say categorically that it hasn't worked. Cuba was exporting revolutionaries to South and Central America, serving as a base for Soviet missiles, sending expeditionary forces to Africa and trying to pass itself off as an example of democracy and self-sufficiency after throwing off the yolk of Yankee imperialism.
So, the embargo did not result in free elections. It did, at least, deprive Cuba of the resources necessary to export expeditionary forces and revolutionaries and serve as a resource sump for the Soviets (and now the Russians). It also shined a continuing light on the fact that the Castros, for all their bullshit about the revolution, are nothing more than tin-pot dictators in charge of a prison camp.
Cuba has always had it within its means to end the embargo at any time by adopting free elections and cutting its ties to the Soviets. The Castros have steadfastly refused to relinquish power-any power- and have turned their island into a prison.
No one seems to want to acknowledge that fact or provide a rational reason as to why these same characters will suddenly reverse course with the cost-free lifting of the embargo and not just prop themselves up further with a new flow of resources. What is more likely to occur is diplomats followed by a cadre of secret police, tourists restricted to certain areas and served by carefully-screened informers, and any Cuban people interacting with Americans questioned by the security forces. Anyone nostalgic for a travel experience akin to the old Soviet Union can now take such an excursion to Cuba.
Quote:
You do realize that Fulgencio Batista was dictator, right. Sure there were wealthy people in Cuba, but most of the country was dirt poor. Batista whored his country out to mobsters and other moneyed interests while his people starved.
Castro was worse, but the Cuban people rebelled for a reason.
Gary,
Check with the people that lived there even with Batista, he was just a whore for the Gringos. However the poverty you speak of must have been well hidden, in any case the revolution in Cuba was supported by the left in the US...
Citations? Sources?
Quote:
In comment 12352752 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
You do realize that Fulgencio Batista was dictator, right. Sure there were wealthy people in Cuba, but most of the country was dirt poor. Batista whored his country out to mobsters and other moneyed interests while his people starved.
Castro was worse, but the Cuban people rebelled for a reason.
Gary,
Check with the people that lived there even with Batista, he was just a whore for the Gringos. However the poverty you speak of must have been well hidden, in any case the revolution in Cuba was supported by the left in the US...
Citations? Sources?
My own personal experience
Quote:
I agree with establishing relations with them. It is a relic of the past. I have an uncomfortable feeling that the fugitive issue will be handled in January 2017 by a pardon. Hope this turns out to be wrong.
I doubt it. If Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich continues to be a minor sour note with respect to his legacy, the pardon of a convicted cop killer would have a significant impact on Obama's. But what they've just done is pretty much given up the possibility of extradition for, as far as I can tell, nothing.
Rich's pardon has had zero effect on his legacy
I'm not going to argue that she's a innocent person or deserves a pardon, but the idea of cutting off commerse and relations to a neighboring country because they gave asylum over 30 years ago, to someone who never actually killed anyone, is pretty foolish.
I'm not going to argue that she's a innocent person or deserves a pardon, but the idea of cutting off commerse and relations to a neighboring country because they gave asylum over 30 years ago, to someone who never actually killed anyone, is pretty foolish.
It doesn't matter if you held the trigger. You are still guilty if you participated in the crime.
Quote:
In comment 12352951 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 12352752 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
You do realize that Fulgencio Batista was dictator, right. Sure there were wealthy people in Cuba, but most of the country was dirt poor. Batista whored his country out to mobsters and other moneyed interests while his people starved.
Castro was worse, but the Cuban people rebelled for a reason.
Gary,
Check with the people that lived there even with Batista, he was just a whore for the Gringos. However the poverty you speak of must have been well hidden, in any case the revolution in Cuba was supported by the left in the US...
Citations? Sources?
My own personal experience
In other areas I'd accept your experience, but not in this one. To clarify, I'm referring only to your assertion that the revolution was supported by the U.S. left. Are you averring that they were the driving force behind Castro, or what? I'm not clear on this statement.
Thanks.
So, the embargo did not result in free elections. It did, at least, deprive Cuba of the resources necessary to export expeditionary forces and revolutionaries and serve as a resource sump for the Soviets (and now the Russians). It also shined a continuing light on the fact that the Castros, for all their bullshit about the revolution, are nothing more than tin-pot dictators in charge of a prison camp.
Cuba has always had it within its means to end the embargo at any time by adopting free elections and cutting its ties to the Soviets. The Castros have steadfastly refused to relinquish power-any power- and have turned their island into a prison.
No one seems to want to acknowledge that fact or provide a rational reason as to why these same characters will suddenly reverse course with the cost-free lifting of the embargo and not just prop themselves up further with a new flow of resources. What is more likely to occur is diplomats followed by a cadre of secret police, tourists restricted to certain areas and served by carefully-screened informers, and any Cuban people interacting with Americans questioned by the security forces. Anyone nostalgic for a travel experience akin to the old Soviet Union can now take such an excursion to Cuba.