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What Are The Knicks Doing? 142,27125 Kyle Wagner Filed to: LOLKNICKS 7/01/15 7:35pm What Are The Knicks Doing? I’m just going to list some things the Knicks are doing. The Knicks wanted to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. But LaMarcus made them wait until last to meet with him. They will see him tomorrow, maybe. The Knicks think they can sign Greg Monroe, and met with him last night. Monroe is a fine offensive player but will have to play alongside a 19-year-old who is very thin—and also Carmelo Anthony—and he is one of the worst defensive big men in the league. The Knicks like his butt. The Knicks would like to get Wes Matthews to play in the triangle, and presumably defend the perimeter. Wes Matthews is thinking it over while he recovers from a torn Achilles tendon, a bad injury for a guard. The Knicks are meeting with Arron Afflalo tomorrow. Afflalo was a Portland Trail Blazer last year. He shot well from three and on spot-ups in general, but was well below average at every other facet of the game, per Synergy Sports. The Knicks are expected to offer Afflalo “in the neighborhood of three years, $36 million-$38 million.” The Knicks wanted to sign Danny Green, but they forgot to call him: Sounds like Danny Green is hoping to meet with the Knicks soon as well, but may not be back from Brazil yet. The Knicks weren’t one of the teams to call him early on. I suspect Green is waiting for the Spurs to figure their other shit out before he has serious discussions with other teams, so said other teams may be waiting as well. Danny signed with the Spurs this morning, for less than Thad Young makes now. The Knicks did remember to call Patrick Beverley, who is bad. They also called Corey Brewer, who is a 3-and-D guy who shot 26 percent from three last season, and currently is a backup plan for the Sacramento Kings. They called Willie Green twice this morning before Danny Green signed with the Spurs. The Knicks have reached out to Jeremy Lin, whom the Kings are also interested in signing. The Kings, you will remember, were one of the teams jostling to draft Frank Kaminsky. They have been battling with the Knicks this whole offseason to get players who are in some demand. This is like when teams know that the Spurs or Rockets are interested in a player, and then try to get the same player because they know he will be good, except for a few minor differences. The Knicks have reached out to Kendrick Perkins, who is a mop languishing in a bucket of dirty, fetid water. The Knicks have reached out to Landry Fields, who is spending this offseason learning to shoot with his left hand. (Landry Fields, who already shot like his parents made him do math problems in his head before he was allowed to release the shoot button, is learning to shoot with his non-dominant hand, because he forgot how to shoot and play in general.) The Knicks are very interested in DeAndre Jordan, and their plan to sign him is to promise to make him the second option on offense, behind Carmelo Anthony. DeAndre Jordan, you will remember, cannot shoot or pass or dribble, which are things that you do on offense. DeAndre Jordan had a four-and-a-half-hour meeting with the Mavericks today, and has been out to dinner with Chandler Parsons for five nights in a row. (Five date rule, I guess.) Anyway, DeAndre’s meeting with the Knicks has not happened yet. The Knicks thought they might sign DeMarre Carroll. They used to have another player named the Junkyard Dog. The current JYD signed with the Raptors. Phil Jackson thought that he might be able to sign Paul Millsap, because he is good at defense, rebounding, and passing, which are things the Knicks need. Paul Millsap re-signed with the Hawks. The Knicks are showing late interest in Derrick Williams, who is a poor shooter who also cannot rebound or pass. The Knicks were interested in David West, who will be 35 when the season starts. Word was they wanted to sign him to a three-year contract. They were “very likely” to sign him just a few days ago. David West said he doesn’t want to play for the Knicks, because they are bad and he is old, which honestly sounds like a good reason the Knicks should also consider. The Knicks want to sign Robin Lopez too, and are planning on meeting with him. Robin Lopez has reportedly met with the Bucks.* Last season, Knicks traded Tyson Chandler away, in part because Phil Jackson was not sure he was a good fit for the triangle offense, and in part to dump Raymond Felton’s contract. He took back Samuel Dalembert, whom the Knicks waived for saying true things, and Jose Calderon. Raymond Felton makes $4.5 million this season, the last year of his deal. Jose Calderon makes $7.4 million this season, and $7.7 million next season. Tyson Chandler signed with the Suns for four years and $52 million, because he is good. The Knicks are interested in K.J. McDaniels, who could not hack it as a Philadelphia 76er. Wayne Ellington and Caron Butler, too. The Knicks are a team that does not have a draft pick next year, and are building around a 31-year-old with knee issues. They are on the clock, yet drafted a young stretch big—the riskiest phenotype in NBA prospects—and now need to plug a 90-pound 7-footer into an NBA defense that features Melo and probably Monroe, and has not ruled out bringing back Jason Smith and mother fucking Bargs. The Knicks are just ignoring reality and the rules of the physical universe around them. The Knicks are bullshit. |
Also which one of you was saying that the first rounder given in the Bargnani deal wasn't worth crying over? How did you even rationalize that? I remember being told I was overreacting over that deal and that I had overreacted over Shumpert over Middleton too.
I told you so's are fun with this franchise.
Whatever, the key to the Knicks resurgence was this draft and it was always about this draft. If they can develop two young players next season I will be fine with this summer. I wanted Monroe or Jordan but it ain't happening. Move on. Don't throw good money after bad just because the Knicks don't have a first rounder next season. Suck it up and play like a team and see what happens.
Anyone saying this is the most depressing time to be a Knicks fan, and it was mentioned on this thread, is nuts. The mid 2000s dwarf this moment by a wide margin in terms of misery and there was never any end in sight.
Again, we have two blue chip young talents in the fold. We have never had this in my lifetime. It's all about the kids. Want to bring in the big FA one day then this team needs to develop some identity. You do that by developing the kids.
And if melo complains I'd laugh in his face if I'm Phil. Cry me a fucking river there Melo... Want out? Peace we will trade you. He's got value.
Whatever, the key to the Knicks resurgence was this draft and it was always about this draft. If they can develop two young players next season I will be fine with this summer. I wanted Monroe or Jordan but it ain't happening. Move on. Don't throw good money after bad just because the Knicks don't have a first rounder next season. Suck it up and play like a team and see what happens.
Anyone saying this is the most depressing time to be a Knicks fan, and it was mentioned on this thread, is nuts. The mid 2000s dwarf this moment by a wide margin in terms of misery and there was never any end in sight.
Again, we have two blue chip young talents in the fold. We have never had this in my lifetime. It's all about the kids. Want to bring in the big FA one day then this team needs to develop some identity. You do that by developing the kids.
And if melo complains I'd laugh in his face if I'm Phil. Cry me a fucking river there Melo... Want out? Peace we will trade you. He's got value.
Absolutely.
I think when the Knicks are actually a legitimately attractive team for players and have a strong nucleus and some depth/young talent, Melo won't even be part of the equation anymore. It just isn't going to happen within the last of his better years.
I like the guy and probably defend him more than most but if we could recoup assets for him it would probably expedite our rebuild.
Now about the picks. I feel that the Knicks have drafted well. I don't think the problem is evaluating players in the draft. The problem is not having picks. That is the big problem. We basically started mortgaging our future in the 90s or 2000s and we have been paying this debt ever since. I like how we are trying to acquire picks and not give them away anymore.
This will turn around but it is probably going to take time the only way I see having an immediate turnaround is if we somehow got Durant next year. Outside of that this will take a few years and I'm fine with that. Our GM has to do what is right for the Knicks organization long term. It isn't about mortgaging the future for a one time title chance. It is about having the ability to have sustained success. The picture is much bigger than Melo's window. If we can put a contender on the floor while he is here then great. If not, we need to have the goal of long term sustained success. Melo was an asset. He needs to be treated as such. If our long term success involves trading Melo them so be it. But this is where I see Dolan getting involved. I don't think he'd ever allow that. And that is a big problem.
When Walsh couldn't sign a core player out of the Lebron/Wade/JJ/Bosh class he spent the money on a player with serious durability concerns. Things rapidly spiraled out of control in the ensuing years. Phil needs to diverge from that course now. This free agent class has some value guys still available that can be important role players. That is the route to take. Don't go spending the cap room to appease the fans...or the owner for that matter.
Phil needs to take the path less traveled by Knicks management...it will make all the difference.
Well that wasn't hindsight. Any one who had any understanding of Bargnani's game could see it was a bad idea. You don't trade first rounders for reclamation projects with a largely in their prime or older roster.
Also which one of you was saying that the first rounder given in the Bargnani deal wasn't worth crying over? How did you even rationalize that? I remember being told I was overreacting over that deal and that I had overreacted over Shumpert over Middleton too.
I told you so's are fun with this franchise.
Probably me.
STFU please. Please?
+1
Absolutely correct that you can't put lipstick on a pig, but it's disappointing that we couldn't convince our top targets to come to NY. Now Phil has a tough decision...pick less ideal fits (and older players) for the system, or go into another season with a pretty awful team, and without a #1. Let's hope that he has the cojones to make the hard choices...and if that means trading Melo and fighting Dolan over such a move, more power to him.
Knicks would still have 7-9 million left to spend
Not in this market...the teams that miss on Jordan are going to start bidding on Lopez
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only way I think the Knicks get out of this mess is simply to stop trading away draft picks and start drafting better players each year.
Draft better players each year? Groundbreaking.
If you read this entire thread, that concept seems to elude some. FA isn't going to fix the Knicks.
Knicks would still have 7-9 million left to spend
Phil Jackson defenders please come defend this bullshit. This better not be credible. $12 million to Robin Lopez????
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12 million a year according to Woj
Knicks would still have 7-9 million left to spend
Phil Jackson defenders please come defend this bullshit. This better not be credible. $12 million to Robin Lopez????
Have you not seen the contracts given out? what did you expect to get him for?
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In comment 12354618 nygiants16 said:
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12 million a year according to Woj
Knicks would still have 7-9 million left to spend
Phil Jackson defenders please come defend this bullshit. This better not be credible. $12 million to Robin Lopez????
Have you not seen the contracts given out? what did you expect to get him for?
Wait I thought the consensus yesterday was that Phil was being financially prudent. Why throw huge money at guys below 2nd tier. Giving Lopez that sort of money destroys that whole stance.
But Lopez does make some sense. Frontcourt defense is a need, no doubt.
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In comment 12354635 Mason said:
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In comment 12354618 nygiants16 said:
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12 million a year according to Woj
Knicks would still have 7-9 million left to spend
Phil Jackson defenders please come defend this bullshit. This better not be credible. $12 million to Robin Lopez????
Have you not seen the contracts given out? what did you expect to get him for?
Wait I thought the consensus yesterday was that Phil was being financially prudent. Why throw huge money at guys below 2nd tier. Giving Lopez that sort of money destroys that whole stance.
Depending on years 12-13 million for a 7 footer in this market is actually a fair deal...
Amir Johnson got 12 million
Jae Crowder got 15 million
Iman fucking Shumpert got 10 million
If you read this entire thread, that concept seems to elude some. FA isn't going to fix the Knicks.
The solution is going to be a combo of the two. We're not going to bottom out Philly style of Phil/Dolan can help it. We have a superstar (yes, Melo is a superstar). Afflalo is a good 4th/5th starter, as would be Robin Lopez. Even if those guys arent the answer long term, you sign them and trade them for #1s if they perform. We took the highest upside kid in the draft.
We also cant just wait around for the draft. We dont have a #1 pick next year. I mean we can, but squandering cap space is as problematic as squandering #1s. And lets remember -- NBA #1s outside of the top handful of picks are a total crapshoot. You could pick mid lottery for 10 years without ever hitting one allstar (and one allstar is not enough).
Free Agency isn't going to "fix" the Knicks, but you can't even net any complementary pieces if every player in the league looks at you like you're toxic waste.
Basketball isn't quite like football in terms of team building, but if you don't draft well, you're still not likely to be a serious contender.
So say the Knicks kick ass in the rest of this FA, how good will they really be? Not good enough and they won't have a #1 pick next year.
What they need to do is determine how long Jackson really wants to do this. Because if he's only in this for 1-3 more years, then his replacement may blow things up again.
Free Agency isn't going to "fix" the Knicks, but you can't even net any complementary pieces if every player in the league looks at you like you're toxic waste.
That's the approach Wellington Mara took in the 1960s and 1970s.
No it means Jordan told them no and they are moving down their list...
Lopez is the next player on their list and the next player that fits their team...
you realize there is no chance to get him on a bargain deal...teams that do not get Jordan are going to bid on him..
Basketball isn't quite like football in terms of team building, but if you don't draft well, you're still not likely to be a serious contender.
So say the Knicks kick ass in the rest of this FA, how good will they really be? Not good enough and they won't have a #1 pick next year.
What they need to do is determine how long Jackson really wants to do this. Because if he's only in this for 1-3 more years, then his replacement may blow things up again.
Knicks have to hope they can get some role players in free agency and hope Porzingis becomes the star they think he can become
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So Phil Jackson wanted Robin Lopez all along and knew this was in fact the market.
No it means Jordan told them no and they are moving down their list...
Lopez is the next player on their list and the next player that fits their team...
you realize there is no chance to get him on a bargain deal...teams that do not get Jordan are going to bid on him..
What was the offer to Jordan?
To me, THAT will be one of the faster roads to being a competitor in the east and giving any potential FAs an inkling of a damn of an interest in being a NYK.
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In comment 12354657 Mason said:
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So Phil Jackson wanted Robin Lopez all along and knew this was in fact the market.
No it means Jordan told them no and they are moving down their list...
Lopez is the next player on their list and the next player that fits their team...
you realize there is no chance to get him on a bargain deal...teams that do not get Jordan are going to bid on him..
What was the offer to Jordan?
I assume Max so 19 million