The addition of Ellis is going to important against the run. Bromley seems like more of a 3 tech guy but that's remains to be seen. They have enough bodies with talent to find someone to compliment Hankins. I think this can be a strong group and part of very good DL this year.
something is wrong. I would hope to see a 3 headed monster in Jenkis/Ellis/Bromley next to Hankins to become 2 headed with Jenkins ceding playing time to Bromley over the course of the season.
I think the signs point to Kuhn being on the roster, but I just have a hard time crunching the numbers unless Ellis was a bad signing and/or Jenkins fades fast.
I think the signs point to Kuhn being on the roster, but I just have a hard time crunching the numbers unless Ellis was a bad signing and/or Jenkins fades fast.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
Yes, if Jenkins shows he has nothing left in camp and Ellis stinks for some reason, then yes, Kuhn would get a spot by default.
Yes, lots of DEs on the roster, but as we saw with Beatty on the OL, you never know who could go down or why. Also,is the DE quantity truly quality? I think that remains to be seen for most of that group.
I think the signs point to Kuhn being on the roster, but I just have a hard time crunching the numbers unless Ellis was a bad signing and/or Jenkins fades fast.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
If you believe that Wynn, Moore, and Odighizuwa represent the future...teach them well and let them lead the way...ahem...I don't see why you would keep both Ayers and Selvie. As I've said repeatedly, they're basically the same guy; they bring the same things to the table.
As for the DTs, it's no secret that I'm a big fan of Bromley, so I expect big things from him this year, if not as a starter than as an integral part of the rotation.
DT: Hankins, Ellis, Bromley, Jenkins/Kuhn, with the edge to Kuhn.
DE: JPP, Moore, Wynn, OO, Ayers/Selvie (pick em).
I don't see us keeping six DEs, even assuming everyone is healthy, because I don't think we'll carry 10 DL. Cutting players who can still play happens every year. It happens to every team.
I think the signs point to Kuhn being on the roster, but I just have a hard time crunching the numbers unless Ellis was a bad signing and/or Jenkins fades fast.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
The DE locks are JPP, Moore, Wynn and OO. That leaves Selvie/Ayers for the last spot. Both are FA next year so why do you keep both. Funny thing is if we cut Selvie he probably steps in as a starter in Dallas.
Let's dream for a minute...RE: Strength up the middle and our vulnerability to the run....Ellis / Hankins projects to be remarkably strong, Beason by himself is a difference maker and even if the huge Safeties have trouble in coverage they will be like two more linebackers.
My Opinion? We are going to be exceptionally tough to run against.
Moreover, I think two of the best CG's in the league are giong to be able to cover for the safeties coverage problems.
I see not a top five but a top ten defense here.
in the tank? If he can show that he still has it in pre-season, then I think Kuhn will be the guy on the bubble, but if Jenkins shows wear, I think it's Kuhn's spot. Tough call and Kuhn too has to show something, otherwise it's an easy decision.
Ayers was a superb interior pass rusher last year so he is versatile and sticks.
Kuhn has bulked up and is totally healthy now. He was raw coming out of college; older as well at 26; and now may be ready to really show something. When the coaching staff buzzes about someone they usually do so for a reason.
Ellis makes the team because he is a big body who stuffs the run and we really need that. Goal line and short yardage defense needs him immensely.
Bromley makes it because he is young and has upside. I am really hoping he shows well in camp and wins the rotational job with Ellis. I actually see us rotating all of our DL's except for maybe JPP and to a lesser extent Hankins. It just makes sense to rotate guys and keep them fresh.
OWA sticks as he is a rookie; he can play specials; and I think he is more NFL ready than most rookies. I have a feeling he'll work his way into the line-up more and more as the season moves along.
I like Jenkins. I really, really do. However, at age 34, will his versatility be enough to warrant sticking? Only camp can provide that answer. I like the fact that he is a true veteran who will likely understand Spags defense quickly and we need that. However, do you pay him the bigger dollars over Kuhn?
In summary, I LOVE our DL problems. I think we have a good mix of talent. The "key" to 2015 is to see BOTH JPP and HANKINS play at a probowl level and to see the rotation produce "near probowl" level as well. That means ELLIS stuffs the run on 1st and 2nd down and Ayers, Bromley, Moore kick butt on the pass rush.
Lastly, there are always injuries and setbacks in camp so the fact that we have mbattles at key spots is great. Lets say Selvie and Jenkins are final cuts but we have an in-season injury week 3. Well, we have two vets to potentially pick up. Nice problem to have.
and does he have enough left in the tank. I personally don't expect Kuhn to become much of a player, but separately need to know when to cut bait on him and Jenkins.
and does he have enough left in the tank. I personally don't expect Kuhn to become much of a player, but separately need to know when to cut bait on him and Jenkins.
Yes, age and Jenkins are the key. With respect to Kuhn, there has to be a reason the staff is feeling good about him. 320 pounds now; 4th year and 2nd year in row healthy; and, no longer "raw". We have to hope the young guys step up and Kuhn (though 30) is "young" in terms of NFL time so lets hope he blossoms.
for Bromley and Ellis to perform well enough to render Kuhn to the bench. I just don't expect much at 30, if he can provide some serviceable snaps, it's a win. Kuhn was still playing on skates late last season, that tends to not change much at his age. We shall see.
but it wears down in games and gets dinged as the season wears on, so they try to manage his usage.
That is why I think you'll see a lot of rotation along our DL this year: to keep players fresh. Ayers is going to be the "key" third and long "Four Aces" pass rusher and will get some playing time at regular DE as well. We need him healthy and productive all year.
This is now a passing league so you need all the quick, big-bodies you can get. We have the run stuffer in Ellis to go alongside Hankins so no excuses.
Also, a healthy Beason goes a long way in stopping the run too. On paper, I think our run defense is much improved if we stay healthy. No way we finish dead last in ypc or yardage. I suspect "middle of the pack" or slightly better if we stay healthy. We can live with that this year.
see Selvie and Ayers as completely different players...Selvie is more the first/second down run defender and Ayers is the situational pass rusher.
17 sacks in six years for Ayers (although 5.5 and 5 in his last two). 13 sacks for Selvie in six years (with 7 and 3 in his last two).
Ayers has averaged 27 tackles a year in six years, but only 22 in his last three. Selvie has averaged 19.5 tackles in six years, but 30 in his last three.
Is it really worth keeping both of them and stifling the development of the three young DEs your roster? I don't think so, but maybe that's just me.
after the injuries -last year was supposed to be his coming out party. He didn't play as well as hoped for, BUT, he also played lighter than usual last year. I suspect he did so to help him with pass rushing. So, I'm expecting him to be much better against the run, but, that's about it. And, we brought in Ellis to do the same thing.
I don't believe PFF. From my perspective, Ayers was not very good against the run last year.
Fair enough. As I've said I think it's Wynn that is a key. If they trust him to be the run stopping LDE then Selvie becomes an extra part.
If Wynn does develop into a potential starting type DE who stuffs the run, well, Selvie is certainly a goner.
I like Wynn. He's a good story and has a good motor. Hope he does come on and heck even wins the starting "rotational" role with Moore.
The thing about this year's DL is that there will be a lot of rotating of players and I think that is a good thing. I care more about wins and performance than stats.
If JPP & Hankins are probowl quality and the rotation in essence is close to the same we'll be on our way!
Unfortunately, I feel injuries will ultimately determine the final roster but whether its Kuhn, Jenkins, Ellis or any of the DEs......we will have a rotation of NFL quality players with potential to dominate.
RE: I am just happy that the Giants have real choices
Unfortunately, I feel injuries will ultimately determine the final roster but whether its Kuhn, Jenkins, Ellis or any of the DEs......we will have a rotation of NFL quality players with potential to dominate.
Exactly, it is the rotation which intrigues me the most.
If Kuhn is maybe over-hyped by the Giants staff a bit well than we keep versatile veteran C. Jenkins. Jenkins can play DT and DE in spots and likely still do just enough to be serviceable.
I now am thinking our opening day DL may just be:
Wynn-Hankins-Ellis-JPP - Wynn is there for his run stopping and is supplanted by Moore on passing downs. Ayers supplants Ellis on passing downs. Bromley get some snaps here and there to start the season and shows really well. Assuming Jenkins makes the roster he is the "wild card" guy who spells others for breathers.
Our DL is better than most think but it is only better if we stay healthy AND (especially) the youth steps up.
OWA on specials early in the year and he'll work his way in as the season goes.
after the injuries -last year was supposed to be his coming out party. He didn't play as well as hoped for, BUT, he also played lighter than usual last year. I suspect he did so to help him with pass rushing. So, I'm expecting him to be much better against the run, but, that's about it. And, we brought in Ellis to do the same thing.
Kuhn was still healing from the torn ACL. Most players have their "coming out party" year 2 after the ACL. Look, this guy may just "peak" this year and show something as a run stuffer. If he does, he may make the team over old man Jenkins. Plus Kuhn does play special teams, not sure if Jenkins does.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
Yes, if Jenkins shows he has nothing left in camp and Ellis stinks for some reason, then yes, Kuhn would get a spot by default.
Yes, lots of DEs on the roster, but as we saw with Beatty on the OL, you never know who could go down or why. Also,is the DE quantity truly quality? I think that remains to be seen for most of that group.
True. Get those "trees" going again that drove Brady nuts in the SBs.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
If you believe that Wynn, Moore, and Odighizuwa represent the future...teach them well and let them lead the way...ahem...I don't see why you would keep both Ayers and Selvie. As I've said repeatedly, they're basically the same guy; they bring the same things to the table.
As for the DTs, it's no secret that I'm a big fan of Bromley, so I expect big things from him this year, if not as a starter than as an integral part of the rotation.
DT: Hankins, Ellis, Bromley, Jenkins/Kuhn, with the edge to Kuhn.
DE: JPP, Moore, Wynn, OO, Ayers/Selvie (pick em).
I don't see us keeping six DEs, even assuming everyone is healthy, because I don't think we'll carry 10 DL. Cutting players who can still play happens every year. It happens to every team.
My problem is the numbers at DE.
The DE locks are JPP, Moore, Wynn and OO. That leaves Selvie/Ayers for the last spot. Both are FA next year so why do you keep both. Funny thing is if we cut Selvie he probably steps in as a starter in Dallas.
Let's dream for a minute...RE: Strength up the middle and our vulnerability to the run....Ellis / Hankins projects to be remarkably strong, Beason by himself is a difference maker and even if the huge Safeties have trouble in coverage they will be like two more linebackers.
My Opinion? We are going to be exceptionally tough to run against.
Moreover, I think two of the best CG's in the league are giong to be able to cover for the safeties coverage problems.
I see not a top five but a top ten defense here.
It really does come down to Ellis or Kuhn in my opinion - if they are equal than Kuhn wins - so it's really Ellis'es job to win and Kuhn's to lose
Kuhn has bulked up and is totally healthy now. He was raw coming out of college; older as well at 26; and now may be ready to really show something. When the coaching staff buzzes about someone they usually do so for a reason.
Ellis makes the team because he is a big body who stuffs the run and we really need that. Goal line and short yardage defense needs him immensely.
Bromley makes it because he is young and has upside. I am really hoping he shows well in camp and wins the rotational job with Ellis. I actually see us rotating all of our DL's except for maybe JPP and to a lesser extent Hankins. It just makes sense to rotate guys and keep them fresh.
OWA sticks as he is a rookie; he can play specials; and I think he is more NFL ready than most rookies. I have a feeling he'll work his way into the line-up more and more as the season moves along.
I like Jenkins. I really, really do. However, at age 34, will his versatility be enough to warrant sticking? Only camp can provide that answer. I like the fact that he is a true veteran who will likely understand Spags defense quickly and we need that. However, do you pay him the bigger dollars over Kuhn?
In summary, I LOVE our DL problems. I think we have a good mix of talent. The "key" to 2015 is to see BOTH JPP and HANKINS play at a probowl level and to see the rotation produce "near probowl" level as well. That means ELLIS stuffs the run on 1st and 2nd down and Ayers, Bromley, Moore kick butt on the pass rush.
Lastly, there are always injuries and setbacks in camp so the fact that we have mbattles at key spots is great. Lets say Selvie and Jenkins are final cuts but we have an in-season injury week 3. Well, we have two vets to potentially pick up. Nice problem to have.
I agree that's what Selvie is but Ayes played the run pretty well, too if you believe PFF.
This is now a passing league so you need all the quick, big-bodies you can get. We have the run stuffer in Ellis to go alongside Hankins so no excuses.
Also, a healthy Beason goes a long way in stopping the run too. On paper, I think our run defense is much improved if we stay healthy. No way we finish dead last in ypc or yardage. I suspect "middle of the pack" or slightly better if we stay healthy. We can live with that this year.
17 sacks in six years for Ayers (although 5.5 and 5 in his last two). 13 sacks for Selvie in six years (with 7 and 3 in his last two).
Ayers has averaged 27 tackles a year in six years, but only 22 in his last three. Selvie has averaged 19.5 tackles in six years, but 30 in his last three.
Is it really worth keeping both of them and stifling the development of the three young DEs your roster? I don't think so, but maybe that's just me.
I don't think either is "safe" but I can what both bring to the table. Ayers is VERY good rushing the passer from DT.
Fair enough. As I've said I think it's Wynn that is a key. If they trust him to be the run stopping LDE then Selvie becomes an extra part.
Quote:
I don't believe PFF. From my perspective, Ayers was not very good against the run last year.
Fair enough. As I've said I think it's Wynn that is a key. If they trust him to be the run stopping LDE then Selvie becomes an extra part.
I like Wynn. He's a good story and has a good motor. Hope he does come on and heck even wins the starting "rotational" role with Moore.
The thing about this year's DL is that there will be a lot of rotating of players and I think that is a good thing. I care more about wins and performance than stats.
If JPP & Hankins are probowl quality and the rotation in essence is close to the same we'll be on our way!
If Kuhn is maybe over-hyped by the Giants staff a bit well than we keep versatile veteran C. Jenkins. Jenkins can play DT and DE in spots and likely still do just enough to be serviceable.
I now am thinking our opening day DL may just be:
Wynn-Hankins-Ellis-JPP - Wynn is there for his run stopping and is supplanted by Moore on passing downs. Ayers supplants Ellis on passing downs. Bromley get some snaps here and there to start the season and shows really well. Assuming Jenkins makes the roster he is the "wild card" guy who spells others for breathers.
Our DL is better than most think but it is only better if we stay healthy AND (especially) the youth steps up.
OWA on specials early in the year and he'll work his way in as the season goes.