NFT: Mets vs Cubs Game 3. Aka "The Shakeup"

Alderson hasn't made? I am frustrated by the offense and it is painful to watch but I'm asking myself what trade is out there that Alderson could make but hasn't? I come up empty. We all want him to do something, but who do get that is available? Who do we give up? To make a move to satisfy the back pages of the tabloids that costs too much will piss me off more than standing pat. Help me out, what is the move I am not seeing?

I hear the argument that "no trade is available". But why not pick up a 4th OF? Or backup infielder? A Minor league for minor league shot in the dark? Why not pick up someone DFAd? Not a superstar, but why not fill out the rest of the roster? The border? Saying nothing was available is fine. But for years?

In comment 12355199 Headhunter said:

Quote:

Alderson hasn't made? I am frustrated by the offense and it is painful to watch but I'm asking myself what trade is out there that Alderson could make but hasn't? I come up empty. We all want him to do something, but who do get that is available? Who do we give up? To make a move to satisfy the back pages of the tabloids that costs too much will piss me off more than standing pat. Help me out, what is the move I am not seeing?

Not a Mets fan, but how on earth would any poster on BBI know what players are available? We like to think that we know, or that some idiot in the media has knowledge of every situation, but it's simply not the case most of the time.

But I do have a hard time believing that Sandy doesn't have a million trades that he could make if he were willing to give up a young arm or two. I understand that Mets fans want to keep every one of them, but that's a different topic than saying Sandy doesn't have options to improve the team.

I did ask what is the trade that Sandy hasn't made that he could of made that he doesn't have to overpay? If there was that kind of trade to be made, why didn't he make it?

While I agree with Shecky that there likely are small ancillary moves out their to be made, I don't think those moves show up in the win column right now. Sure our offense is rock bottom right now, but a couple weeks ago guys like Ciciliani were hitting so outside of fringe players like him...

what this team really needs is about 6 starters right now.

Murphy and Granderson are the only players we can count on right now and we only just got Murphy back.

Who's out there thats going to change this? Who's out there worth trading Matz or Syndergaard for?

We need a multitude of things to happen for this offense to get turned around.

TDA and Wright need to return. Duda, Cuddyer, and Flores need to come out of their MASSIVE slumps. Some of the younger players like Reynolds, Herrera, Plawecki need to make the next adjustment and offer some sort of depth. Then yes.... if most of those things happen, maybe you add a piece at the deadline. But adding one piece right now without the rest literally will do nothing and its not worth trading away our dream rotation for.

but I'd try to ride the hit bat of Kirk. He can't be worse than Campbell or Mayberry. I expect once he gets too many AB's he'll revert to form, but he is hitting the cover off the ball right now, so why not?

.

but the scouts have to love Meisner and Fulmer and if they are really good at their jobs there are guys in the lower minors that have huge upsides. There are deals to be done without touching those 5 pitchers and you know who I mean, 1 is recovering TJ

In comment 12355330 Headhunter said:

Quote:

but I'd try to ride the hit bat of Kirk. He can't be worse than Campbell or Mayberry. I expect once he gets too many AB's he'll revert to form, but he is hitting the cover off the ball right now, so why not?

Kirk is on fire. And I don't believe Vegas is this magical place where terrible hitters suddenly become awesome. Sure you can't buy the power numbers translating but Herrera is clearly still struggling since his demotion and we've seen examples of this many times. Id bring Kirk up again as well.

The concerns about AB's for Herrera when he was first called up being blocked by Tejada, but Campbell and Mayberry?

I am not saying that there isn't a stark difference between AAA and MLB, there absolutely is. But I do think players that have experienced major league success can re-find their stroke there. See TDA, Flores, and others as an example last year.

I know if he plays too much he will revert to his norm. But, he is on fire, you try to catch lightening in a bottle for a couple of weeks

Ive pointed out he's been solid over entire seasons. Kind of tough to say he sucks after a rotten 6 weeks after years of being successful but even I agreed he had to go at that point. He was killing us. He is literally on fire now.

outfielder, spot fill in guy, I presume.

Leathersich was left in to throw 57 pitches the other night and was immediately placed on the DL a day later. WTF?

I know 1 idiot on this site is going to claim I viewed Kirk as the savior in a couple of weeks. Also I would try for a game or 2 to put the names in a hat and make the lineup that way

In comment 12355317 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

While I agree with Shecky that there likely are small ancillary moves out their to be made, I don't think those moves show up in the win column right now. Sure our offense is rock bottom right now, but a couple weeks ago guys like Ciciliani were hitting so outside of fringe players like him... what this team really needs is about 6 starters right now. Murphy and Granderson are the only players we can count on right now and we only just got Murphy back. Who's out there thats going to change this? Who's out there worth trading Matz or Syndergaard for? We need a multitude of things to happen for this offense to get turned around. TDA and Wright need to return. Duda, Cuddyer, and Flores need to come out of their MASSIVE slumps. Some of the younger players like Reynolds, Herrera, Plawecki need to make the next adjustment and offer some sort of depth. Then yes.... if most of those things happen, maybe you add a piece at the deadline. But adding one piece right now without the rest literally will do nothing and its not worth trading away our dream rotation for.

Not for nothing, but I bet that adding De Aza would have shown up in the win column. That would have been a small move that the mets absolutely could have made. De Aza has 16 RBIs in 23 games since going to BOS. And it wouldn't have taken much to get him at all.

There are plenty of ways to improve the team. Most other baseball teams seem to understand that. But let's wait until July 31st to see if we can get some healthy players back. I mean, we may be out of the race by then but at least we'll have the injury prone players DW and TdA back for a short while before the are on the DL again. Complete lack of attention to this season. More of the same. More of the same.

There have been two significant trades made in the 2 wild card era between April-June and one of them was for EYJ. Teams just aren't ready to part with pieces at all until they know they are absolutely out of it. Congrats to Boston for finding the needle in the haystack that has been the exception to the rule. Now that July just started I do expect there to be more activity however.

if we were told that after 82 games we were sitting at .500 3 1/2 games back of the Nats 2 games behind in the Wild Card, I'd would have taken it. The reality is we may not sniff .500 after this road trip, but if they do hang around and get back some prices and make a move it could still be a fun season

Howie Rose got sick enough to force them to divert. Get well soon Howie
one of my all time favorite Met related personalities

In comment 12355379 Headhunter said:

Quote:

if we were told that after 82 games we were sitting at .500 3 1/2 games back of the Nats 2 games behind in the Wild Card, I'd would have taken it. The reality is we may not sniff .500 after this road trip, but if they do hang around and get back some prices and make a move it could still be a fun season

You keep saying stuff like this and, while i get what you are saying, it really isn't relevant. It's a superficial statement. And I don't mean that as a dig at all.

It has no bearing on how we are playing, how other teams are playing, etc. So, after 92 games if we are 10 games behind the Nats and 9 games behind the WC, will you feel the same way?

Yes, it's great that they are 3.5 games behind the Nats. Reality is that the Nats have become the juggernaut they were pegged to be while the Mets are spiraling into irrelevancy, quickly. Somehow, it makes the "only being 3.5 games behind the Nats" mean absolutely nothing.

it's just a rationalization on my part, the reality is they have been a bad ball club since April and the trending arrow is point straight down. I'm grasping, I know it

didn't want to come across as a jerk. I get what you are saying and I can appreciate the positive outlook.

It could always be worse, right?

How about in an extreme bizarro-world type of situation, the bats suddenly start to come alive and we rip through this west coast trip! I like the sound of that.

I try not to get too high and low. We aren't the team that started out 13-3 and we aren't this bad either. We are probably somewhere in between. As much as Ive bashed Duda, Cuddyer, and Flores they probably do come out of their horrific slumps at some point. We likely do get a couple pieces back and we realistically could still make a run say in August or so.

I keep reminding myself that this was an 87 win team by my own predictions which means we likely missed the playoffs from the beginning and I was the most optimistic person here. The pitching is here. The lineup has been a mess. We can't fix everything thats plaguing this team right now with a trade. We just can't.

if we cloned Curtis Granderson right now and had his bat in LF and RF we are suddenly World Series contenders? Even playoff contenders? And Granderson is just about better than any bat even remotely rumored to be available at the deadline this year.

If guys like Duda don't pull their heads out of their asses we are sunk regardless.

I agree that there are too many fundamental infrastructure flaws that can't be fixed in 1 or 2 moves.

In comment 12355427 Headhunter said:

Quote:

I agree that there are too many fundamental infrastructure flaws that can't be fixed in 1 or 2 moves.

Thats the thing. This lineup was going to be successful in my mind because of its length. We didn't have those difference makers in the middle of the lineup(except for Duda) but I thought with 7-8 solid professional hitters we could work around slumps, ect. Well everything has gone to shit starting with the injuries. Turning 7-8 to 3-4 put us at a huge disadvantage since jump street. Combine that with slumps and guys underperforming and its understandable why our lineup has been so pathetic. You can't score with one or two guys. If things are going to turn around certain players have to come out of their slumps, key players have to return, and some of the young guys have to step up. If some of those things happen, then sure, make a play for Upton or something but its foolish now.

but I still think a post all-star team that looks something like...

Granderson
Murphy
Wright
Duda
TDA
Cuddyer/Conforto
Flores
Lagares

Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, Niese

Mejia, Familia

Can win some games.

I don't like the lack of aggressiveness by the Manager who seems to be playing for his job and makes everyone tense with his dumb comments at times. They are like Knicks in being poorly constructed with top heavy pitching and severely lacking in all other aspects of the game. With everyone healthy and playing to their norms they are an OK offense not a great offense, but with their pitching they don't need a great offense. They should shut Lagares down and fix his elbow. They should get rid of Tejada Campbell and Mayberry yesterday. Replace them with Reynolds Castellano(?) and Kirk. Make a trade for a SS or Outfielder that can hit and can run

on MLB radio Jim Duquette said that the Mets were discussing a Zobrist for Montero trade but the holdup was Montero's injury and him not being able to prove he is healthy right now.

Id make that trade in a heartbeat.

and let Zobrist/Murphy play 3B and 2B until Wright returns.

In comment 12355448 Headhunter said:

Quote:

I don't like the lack of aggressiveness by the Manager who seems to be playing for his job and makes everyone tense with his dumb comments at times. They are like Knicks in being poorly constructed with top heavy pitching and severely lacking in all other aspects of the game. With everyone healthy and playing to their norms they are an OK offense not a great offense, but with their pitching they don't need a great offense. They should shut Lagares down and fix his elbow. They should get rid of Tejada Campbell and Mayberry yesterday. Replace them with Reynolds Castellano(?) and Kirk. Make a trade for a SS or Outfielder that can hit and can run

I agree with all of this. Somebody like Castellanos should have been up over Cambell months ago. He's been damn good in AAA this year. DFA Cambell. Who cares about his 40 spot. Ceciliani has gone cold so swap him with Kirk. Ride the hot hand. I maintain Tejada is fine as a backup middle infielder but he should NEVER be starting as he is always exposed. If the time comes where Tejada has to start because there are no other options its time to call up Renolds or Tovar.

you can't use them as starters for more than 1 game in a row. Tejada has had enough opportunities to grab hold of the job and he plays well for a week then goes back to being who he really is. Kirk is recycled garbage, but he is hot, see if it transfers, if it doesn't what do you have to lose?

but I disagree they are the same. Tejada has been given years and years to prove himself and has only proven that he sucks. Kirk has been given numerous chances and has only proven he can produce in limited opportunities until his rotten start to this year in a pinch hitting role to boot.

And to be clear again. Nobody's saying Kirk is this great talent, but he was a very nice 4th outfielder last year and could be that again.

Sandy Alderson will also be available to the media

we see Alex Castellanos?

says if possible. Thanks!

In comment 12355504 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

says if possible. Thanks!

agreed. I refuse to let the Mets ruin my holiday weekend.

Like the 2 guys above said (Phi and BB I think) 1. We have no idea what has or hasn't been proposed, surely there are dozens of things discussed for every 1 thing that actually happens and 2. it's not like he needed to add stars, good role players would have been a major help. Sandy supposedly turned down Uribe for Gee right before he went to ATL, add him and the OF who went to Boston and give them all the ABs that have gone to Ceciliani, Herrera, Cambell, Muno,

I thought Zobrist would have been a great add in the offseason and I continue to think so now. Gomez would also be great. But beyond the 1 "bullet" deal Sandy's willing to "overpay" for, I'd love to see him gamble on a few solid vets to replace the AAA guys currently filling the depth roles. Sometimes even the guys with terrible stats have something in the tank, like Chris Young last year with the Yankees. We couldn't dump him fast enough and then he went across town hit .280 and posted a 146wRC+ and contributed 1 full WAR.

I'll be out or I'd transcribe

From what I understand, there was a trade close last year, but the other GM got annoyed waiting and pulled the plug. Just one example of Aldersons patience hurting him, and one for the "I wonder if a potential trade existed" crowd.

In comment 12355028 Shecky said:

Quote:

In comment 12354979 arcarsenal said: Quote: ...when Fred has passed on. I don't even love Fred but it's pretty obvious which of the two is the bigger dolt. If we think this is bad, it could get much worse. Arc knows Wilpons ;) To summarize, when asked why a certain pitcher wasn't on the team, "Jeff don't like him". That's with Alderson as GM. Frightening what happens when Fred and Sandy are no longer around. Terrifying.

Wait, Sandy wanted a pitcher and Jeff Wilpon didn't like the pitcher so he overruled him? Who is running the show behind closed doors?

"I feel great, progress, I'll be back. Just don't know when. Have to be patient and listen to the doctors."

Seriously - is there anything other than that? It's a fluff conference, so won't be anything negative.

#VoteBartolo ‏@jeffpaternostro 2h2 hours ago
Meisner: Tall and fall, 88-93, soft curve at 73-78 that he casts a bit, change 79-80, struggling with release point so far.

Adam Rubin ‏@AdamRubinESPN 34m34 minutes ago
David Wright "very confident" he will play this season, and play at a high level.

@MetsGM says #DavidWright is feeling more positive but the team is not expecting him back at a certain date.

In comment 12355606 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

@MetsGM says #DavidWright is feeling more positive but the team is not expecting him back at a certain date.

thanks Dan. More fluff.
NO certain comeback date for DW

Even their press conferences suck.

#beingametsfansucks

but the first year of ML experience for Syndergaard and Matz, Harvey working his way back from TJ, Degrom getting even better in his sophomore season. Plus, Familia turned out to be a stud closer and Parnell is looking surprisingly good from TJ recovery. Our bullpen has been fairly reliable.

Too bad the non-pitching roster is toast.

If we aren't going to hit anyways, why not get the best defensive infielder on the ML team?