NFT: Mets vs Cubs Game 3. Aka "The Shakeup"

In comment 12354434 Headhunter said:

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1 inning 3K's on 9 pitches. My quest is that better than 1 inning 3 pitches 3 outs? Anibel Sanchez the Catcher is now hitting .520 close to 30AB's is pretty ridiculous even in Little League

Walter Rasquin also having a torrid start

It's amazing the way this franchise just settles for being fucking shitty time and time again.

I'm not asking for panic moves here but it's pretty obvious we are about to fall completely out of the division race within a week if nothing changes. And Alderson can't be bothered because he's got to take the dog out.

is hitting an even .500

In comment 12354474 Headhunter said:

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is hitting an even .500

Yep, the 1 for 3 today brought his average down

In comment 12354434 Headhunter said:

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1 inning 3K's on 9 pitches. My quest is that better than 1 inning 3 pitches 3 outs? Anibel Sanchez the Catcher is now hitting .520 close to 30AB's is pretty ridiculous even in Little League

in the majors once he's established himself then maybe I'd prefer 3 pitches 3 outs, but you need to earn that. For now, blow guys away, 9 pitches 3 k's ties a record. I'll take it.

In comment 12354434 Headhunter said:

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1 inning 3K's on 9 pitches. My quest is that better than 1 inning 3 pitches 3 outs? Anibel Sanchez the Catcher is now hitting .520 close to 30 AB's is pretty ridiculous even in Little League

Was a couple more than 9 pitches, but equally impressive debut for the kid.

Ali Sanchez, no clue if he ever makes it not, but mature wayyyy beyond his years on the field.

That's quite a multicultural combo. Haven't heard of that one before.

Should be official by now. No clue which slot they got though, and it was for a non prospect from Mets. Mets needed about 1/4mm to avoid IFA penalty.

Gabriel Ynoa: 9IP, 1H, 0ER, 0BB, 6K

In comment 12354691 Shecky said:

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Should be official by now. No clue which slot they got though, and it was for a non prospect from Mets. Mets needed about 1/4mm to avoid IFA penalty.

Slot 90. They received 239,400

Didn't think they'd get so much, thought I heard they might need to make more than one trade.
Ifa slot money has got to be BY FAR the most undervalued asset available in trades.

In comment 12354434 Headhunter said:

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1 inning 3K's on 9 pitches. My quest is that better than 1 inning 3 pitches 3 outs? Anibel Sanchez the Catcher is now hitting .520 close to 30AB's is pretty ridiculous even in Little League

szapucki Our #4 is once again supposed to debut tomorrow as well.

i wish this was a mets story
link - ( New Window )

fully blame the Wilpons. No money means you can't get into a bid for a good player. It means you can't re-sign some of your good players to long lucrative contracts. It means you always have to act like a small market team and look for market inefficiencies to exploit (hard to do). It means you have to forgo bonefide true offensive players because you can't afford them. It means you can't make a lopsided trade so you can give up little and take a huge contract for a good/elite hitter.

Alderson may find this challenging and fun but not for me.

They are among the most despised people in all of New York.
They're in financial difficulty.
They certainly can't be having fun.
They can't face the media or the public.
They'd get booed anywhere they showed their faces.
Why not sell.......
They could get about a billion dollars.
Their financial woes would be over.
They'd be rich beyond belief.
They would be carefree.
No one would despise them, in fact no one would give a shit about them any more.
They could show their faces in public.
They could enjoy life. Hell Fred is in his mid-70's, what is he waiting for? Does he intend to take the team into his grave with him?

They probably don't give a shit what fans feel about them.
Owning a baseball team is like a status symbol.
They have no reason to sell the team.

They had no problem spending money on the team when they were using the play money from Madoff. Now that the Madoff giving tree is gone, they certainly do t want to part with their own, real money. I mean, they chose to spend far less to change the dimensions of the park...twice...rather than to spend the money to sign the players that can actually hit in CitiField. That tells you all you need to know.

He won't be taking the team to the grave with him.

Jeff might run it into the grave right next to his though,

that is Jeff. He wants to make sure Jeff has something to do and stay as far away from his & Katz's thriving Sterling Properties as possible.

Owning the Mets is the ultimate status symbol for Fred Wilpon and his family. And it's not like they never spent before - it's that Madoff changed their financial plan and approach. But Bud let them keep the team because making them sell would kill Fred.

...when Fred has passed on. I don't even love Fred but it's pretty obvious which of the two is the bigger dolt. If we think this is bad, it could get much worse.

he's might be a lot of things, but a dolt is not one of them

In comment 12354843 Phil in Joisey said:

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They are among the most despised people in all of New York. They're in financial difficulty. They certainly can't be having fun. They can't face the media or the public. They'd get booed anywhere they showed their faces. Why not sell....... They could get about a billion dollars. Their financial woes would be over. They'd be rich beyond belief. They would be carefree. No one would despise them, in fact no one would give a shit about them any more. They could show their faces in public. They could enjoy life. Hell Fred is in his mid-70's, what is he waiting for? Does he intend to take the team into his grave with him?

He is a developer and a fan of Jackie Robinson.

How does a developer make money? Cut me some slack, invest with me now and I'll pay you more money later. Need proof this is Fred Wilpon?

a. Why do people think Bud Selig was so generous with that bridge loan though MLB? People don't see he has a vested future interest behind the scenes? Didn't Bud Selig kinda urge or handpick Sandy Alderson to the Mets? How is Sandy doing?

B. Here is an easy one. Look at Bobby Bonilla's contract. Cut me some slack, invest with me now and I'll pay you more later.

C. Citi Field to Willets Point - Wilpon was awarded the land to build Citi Field. (Invest with me now, i'll pay you later). Actually building Citi Field was the prerequiste to be awarded Willetts Point. (Has he build Willetts point yet?) Nope, now he's waiting for the City to build him more on-off ramps to develop Willetts point. (Invest with me now, I'll pay you later)

D. The Mets; HE PUT IT IN PRINT!!!! He said, invest with me now and I'll pay you later by challenging the fans with the be a "True New Yorker" ad.

Back to the top of my post, he's a developer and fan of Jackie Robinson. Look at the main entrance to the stadium!!! It's Jackie Robinson, it's not even the Mets.

So why won't the Wilpons sell the Mets? B/c "cut me some slack, invest with me now and I'll pay you later" is in full swing. Fred's the real Maverick, it's just Sandy's book title. He'll get paid later too.

In comment 12354278 NYG27 said:

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We've been incredibly lucky with this offense to still be at .500 (Mostly due to our 11 game win streak). Although this upcoming 12 of 15 games on the road WILL NOT end well for us. 3 @ Dodgers 3 @ Giants All Star Break 3 home against Arizona 3 @ Cardinals 3 @ Nationals Those 5 teams are a combined 218-175. If the Mets win more then 5 games during that 15 game stretch, I would consider that a success.

the death spiral for the season is coming.

In comment 12354979 arcarsenal said:

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...when Fred has passed on. I don't even love Fred but it's pretty obvious which of the two is the bigger dolt. If we think this is bad, it could get much worse.

Arc knows Wilpons ;)

To summarize, when asked why a certain pitcher wasn't on the team, "Jeff don't like him". That's with Alderson as GM. Frightening what happens when Fred and Sandy are no longer around. Terrifying.

In comment 12355012 spike said:

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In comment 12354278 NYG27 said: Quote: We've been incredibly lucky with this offense to still be at .500 (Mostly due to our 11 game win streak). Although this upcoming 12 of 15 games on the road WILL NOT end well for us. 3 @ Dodgers 3 @ Giants All Star Break 3 home against Arizona 3 @ Cardinals 3 @ Nationals Those 5 teams are a combined 218-175. If the Mets win more then 5 games during that 15 game stretch, I would consider that a success. the death spiral for the season is coming.

We should all just resign to the fact that the season is over with this west coast trip. The time to salvage the season with a "shakeup" was yesterday...or actually a week ago. Wilpalderson will unfortunately make the change too late (if at all) and we'll waste another year...a year we could have actually made some noise. The Mets are the Knicks of baseball. Probably worse.

I mean, all those other teams that make changes earlier in the year must be doing in wrong, right? In the Sandy handbook it says that you can't make any moves before 7/31. Sigh...

I don't know who said that but it certainly seems to apply to the Wilpns and Mets

Fred was a star pitcher in HS but unfortunately injured his arm at Michigan
Jeff was drafted as a minor league catcher, though he reportedly never got into a game
Jeff's son was drafted by the Red Sox last year

So, the Wilpons DO know something about baseball but that is part of the problem. That's what makes them meddle. It also leads to them hiring GMs and managers who will allow them to meddle. Neither Sandy or Collins is getting another job in baseball as a GM or manger, so they put up with interference from above. You think Brian Sabean or Joe Maddon would put up with this? No way. Because they don't have to because they would both have job offers galore if they quit.

If you look at the Mets past GMs and managers, most of them never got another GM or managerial position. Or if they did, they were complete failures. Nobody wants to come work for the Wilpons except guys who don't have any other offers.

Against all logic. Against all sane thought. Against all fan sentiment. Call me an idiot or an over optimistic Mets fan.

But

I say they come back from this west coast trip a lot less negative than they leave it. Just a hunch. They come back 500 and it could be the turning point we were looking for. As opposed to the end of the 2015 Mets.

and they've found ways to bounce back when things got negative earlier in the season. But that doesn't change the fact that the every day lineup has been exposed for the joke it is and getting guys back healthy will only do so much. Murphy came back, is hitting like he never left, and they still can't score. There's no difference maker here and to deploy the "depth of the lineup" strategy you can't start 3+ guys who are AAA players (at best).

Until Alderson does something with this roster to actually shake things up, show accountability, and show commitment to winning being the #1 priority I feel we are going to be stuck in this same endless cycle. Get excited by amazing pitching and the hope that the lineup "can only get better" and "only needs to be average" then come crashing down to reality that of the every day players on the active roster half of them are AAA players. What evidence do we have that they even care to upgrade Mayberry, Cecilliani, Monnell, Campbell, and Tejada? Where is the accountability on those guys?

And re: the Wilpons, Fred was a respected guy whose heart was always in the right place. A little meddling, sure, but he was a good guy who was successful and people liked. Jeff is a d-bag who pisses off everyone who has to deal with him. Go back and read Nelson Doubleday's quotes about him and I can tell you for a fact they are corroborated 10x over. Fred has a blindspot to his kid, like a lot of father's, and it's been a terrible hinderance to this franchise. Just like the Madoff mess.

They obviously love owning the team, why should they sell? To satisfy some fans?

you won't find too many online fans who accept or understand the Wilpon enterprise as one in the same including the Mets rather than separate like most every sports owner.

Alderson hasn't made? I am frustrated by the offense and it is painful to watch but I'm asking myself what trade is out there that Alderson could make but hasn't? I come up empty. We all want him to do something, but who do get that is available? Who do we give up? To make a move to satisfy the back pages of the tabloids that costs too much will piss me off more than standing pat. Help me out, what is the move I am not seeing?

I hear the argument that "no trade is available". But why not pick up a 4th OF? Or backup infielder? A Minor league for minor league shot in the dark? Why not pick up someone DFAd? Not a superstar, but why not fill out the rest of the roster? The border? Saying nothing was available is fine. But for years?

In comment 12355199 Headhunter said:

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Alderson hasn't made? I am frustrated by the offense and it is painful to watch but I'm asking myself what trade is out there that Alderson could make but hasn't? I come up empty. We all want him to do something, but who do get that is available? Who do we give up? To make a move to satisfy the back pages of the tabloids that costs too much will piss me off more than standing pat. Help me out, what is the move I am not seeing?

Not a Mets fan, but how on earth would any poster on BBI know what players are available? We like to think that we know, or that some idiot in the media has knowledge of every situation, but it's simply not the case most of the time.

But I do have a hard time believing that Sandy doesn't have a million trades that he could make if he were willing to give up a young arm or two. I understand that Mets fans want to keep every one of them, but that's a different topic than saying Sandy doesn't have options to improve the team.

I did ask what is the trade that Sandy hasn't made that he could of made that he doesn't have to overpay? If there was that kind of trade to be made, why didn't he make it?

While I agree with Shecky that there likely are small ancillary moves out their to be made, I don't think those moves show up in the win column right now. Sure our offense is rock bottom right now, but a couple weeks ago guys like Ciciliani were hitting so outside of fringe players like him...

what this team really needs is about 6 starters right now.

Murphy and Granderson are the only players we can count on right now and we only just got Murphy back.

Who's out there thats going to change this? Who's out there worth trading Matz or Syndergaard for?

We need a multitude of things to happen for this offense to get turned around.

TDA and Wright need to return. Duda, Cuddyer, and Flores need to come out of their MASSIVE slumps. Some of the younger players like Reynolds, Herrera, Plawecki need to make the next adjustment and offer some sort of depth. Then yes.... if most of those things happen, maybe you add a piece at the deadline. But adding one piece right now without the rest literally will do nothing and its not worth trading away our dream rotation for.

but I'd try to ride the hit bat of Kirk. He can't be worse than Campbell or Mayberry. I expect once he gets too many AB's he'll revert to form, but he is hitting the cover off the ball right now, so why not?

.

but the scouts have to love Meisner and Fulmer and if they are really good at their jobs there are guys in the lower minors that have huge upsides. There are deals to be done without touching those 5 pitchers and you know who I mean, 1 is recovering TJ

In comment 12355330 Headhunter said:

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but I'd try to ride the hit bat of Kirk. He can't be worse than Campbell or Mayberry. I expect once he gets too many AB's he'll revert to form, but he is hitting the cover off the ball right now, so why not?

Kirk is on fire. And I don't believe Vegas is this magical place where terrible hitters suddenly become awesome. Sure you can't buy the power numbers translating but Herrera is clearly still struggling since his demotion and we've seen examples of this many times. Id bring Kirk up again as well.

The concerns about AB's for Herrera when he was first called up being blocked by Tejada, but Campbell and Mayberry?

I am not saying that there isn't a stark difference between AAA and MLB, there absolutely is. But I do think players that have experienced major league success can re-find their stroke there. See TDA, Flores, and others as an example last year.

I know if he plays too much he will revert to his norm. But, he is on fire, you try to catch lightening in a bottle for a couple of weeks

Ive pointed out he's been solid over entire seasons. Kind of tough to say he sucks after a rotten 6 weeks after years of being successful but even I agreed he had to go at that point. He was killing us. He is literally on fire now.

outfielder, spot fill in guy, I presume.

Leathersich was left in to throw 57 pitches the other night and was immediately placed on the DL a day later. WTF?

I know 1 idiot on this site is going to claim I viewed Kirk as the savior in a couple of weeks. Also I would try for a game or 2 to put the names in a hat and make the lineup that way

In comment 12355317 ZGiants98 said:

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While I agree with Shecky that there likely are small ancillary moves out their to be made, I don't think those moves show up in the win column right now. Sure our offense is rock bottom right now, but a couple weeks ago guys like Ciciliani were hitting so outside of fringe players like him... what this team really needs is about 6 starters right now. Murphy and Granderson are the only players we can count on right now and we only just got Murphy back. Who's out there thats going to change this? Who's out there worth trading Matz or Syndergaard for? We need a multitude of things to happen for this offense to get turned around. TDA and Wright need to return. Duda, Cuddyer, and Flores need to come out of their MASSIVE slumps. Some of the younger players like Reynolds, Herrera, Plawecki need to make the next adjustment and offer some sort of depth. Then yes.... if most of those things happen, maybe you add a piece at the deadline. But adding one piece right now without the rest literally will do nothing and its not worth trading away our dream rotation for.

Not for nothing, but I bet that adding De Aza would have shown up in the win column. That would have been a small move that the mets absolutely could have made. De Aza has 16 RBIs in 23 games since going to BOS. And it wouldn't have taken much to get him at all.

There are plenty of ways to improve the team. Most other baseball teams seem to understand that. But let's wait until July 31st to see if we can get some healthy players back. I mean, we may be out of the race by then but at least we'll have the injury prone players DW and TdA back for a short while before the are on the DL again. Complete lack of attention to this season. More of the same. More of the same.

There have been two significant trades made in the 2 wild card era between April-June and one of them was for EYJ. Teams just aren't ready to part with pieces at all until they know they are absolutely out of it. Congrats to Boston for finding the needle in the haystack that has been the exception to the rule. Now that July just started I do expect there to be more activity however.

if we were told that after 82 games we were sitting at .500 3 1/2 games back of the Nats 2 games behind in the Wild Card, I'd would have taken it. The reality is we may not sniff .500 after this road trip, but if they do hang around and get back some prices and make a move it could still be a fun season

Howie Rose got sick enough to force them to divert. Get well soon Howie
one of my all time favorite Met related personalities