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What really went on with the Collins non-draft

grizz299 : 7/3/2015 12:17 am
I've posted it before...I think a team that's posed to go after a SB is serverely compromised by the offensive line.

How much different woould we look for both the long term and short term if we were lining up two huge, young and very talented tackles.?

Something went on. I could see not risking a third round on a guy, but how the heck does the whole league shy away from investing a sixth or seventh rounder.

I've got to believe that teams sent our private investigators, information had to be out there that said the kid was innocent.

And even if there wasn't , the kids still got to be worth a seventh, I mean there's risk associated with any seventh pick.

I can't make sense of it. Again it's not just the Giants , the whole league passed on him.
If something came down from the Commissioner's office, why? And that's the point , why would the league ask teams to stay away and, if somehow they did , why did thirty two teams go along with it?

If there was mis- information about his guilt, why didn't the teams dig into it and come up with the seemingly obvious truth.

I can remember the Cowboys drafting Staubach realizing that he had four years pledged to the military, still they invested in the then kid.

Sorry, I can't find anything that accounts for this kid slipping through the draft. Even with strange unaccountable events I can find a reason - ill founded, senseless or otherwise. I can find no plausible rational here.

Would appreciate your input, would love to hear something that makes sense of this.
Smh  
charlito : 7/3/2015 12:22 am : link
43% of BBI fans would trade Eli, Odell and JPP for la'el Collins.
ahh that 's  
grizz299 : 7/3/2015 12:31 am : link
not the point.

what went on? Arn't you a little curious.?
I wanted Collins in the 6th  
SGMen : 7/3/2015 12:36 am : link
when we took WR Davis over Collins I was pissed. When the 7th went I was surprised even more! But when all teams pass you have to think "character & distraction" not worth it. Why he signed with Dallas is beyond me given their talent but he did and we have to deal with it.
it's a case of horrible timing  
WeatherMan : 7/3/2015 12:37 am : link
given the recent high profile crimes the NFL has been involved in and on the wrong side of (Ray Rice, AP, etc.), teams are highly gunshy and risk-averse with players in any sort of legal scrutiny - let alone a homicide case. A week earlier and he's cleared and a probable first round pick, a week later and the team drafting him is doing massive damage control hoping he's innocent. As it is he was, and ended up a Cowboy... what's done is done.
as for risk associated with a 7th round pick  
WeatherMan : 7/3/2015 12:39 am : link
if a team drafted him and he was implicated and convicted, congrats, you just drafted a vile murderer. PR nightmare and then some. In this environment, even an association with the victim before being cleared made him radioactive to all teams.
RE: as for risk associated with a 7th round pick  
Joe in Cambridge : 7/3/2015 12:44 am : link
In comment 12354879 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
if a team drafted him and he was implicated and convicted, congrats, you just drafted a vile murderer. PR nightmare and then some. In this environment, even an association with the victim before being cleared made him radioactive to all teams.
I don't know about that. Deflategate was a much bigger PR issue for the Patriots than Aaron Hernandez. If a team cuts someone who breaks the law people get over it soon enough.
Hernandez didn't to the public  
WeatherMan : 7/3/2015 12:48 am : link
turn out to be a problematic individual until down the line. This controversy was already boiling pre-draft - entirely different scenarios, and if a free agent were in the place of Collins he'd be equally shunned on the market until the situation was resolved IMO.
For the love of Pete  
Giantgator : 7/3/2015 12:56 am : link
Gogolak make it stop! His agent told every team he wouldn't sign if he wasn't drafted by the third round.
I think NFL teams view draft picks differently than fans.  
81_Great_Dane : 7/3/2015 12:57 am : link
We fans tend to think: "Hey, roll the dice, 7th-round picks usually don't make the team anyway."

Today with only 7 rounds in the draft (there used to be a lot more) teams expect all their draft picks to at least make the practice squad. "Mr. Irrelevant" isn't irrelevant at all anymore. You can get a 7th-rounder on a cheap contract for years. If he overperforms his draft position, that's a big boon for the franchise.

I think the teams looked at their 7th-round picks as valuable assets, and saw La'el Collins as too big a risk for such an asset. UDFA is another story. Then you're only risking money.
I dunno  
grizz299 : 7/3/2015 1:02 am : link
given the recent high profile crimes the NFL has been involved in and on the wrong side of (Ray Rice, AP, etc.), teams are highly gunshy and risk-averse with players in any sort of legal scrutiny - let alone a homicide case.

I understand that line of thinking, but it's not strong enough. There was never compelling evidence linking him to the crime. And what are you risking if you throw a seventh rounder at him. What percentage of seventh rounders ever start, much less are impact players.

My feeling still is that something we don't know about was going on. Some mis information or some directive from the Comm. office accompanied by a threat.

Then the question becomes why? And why teams listened to it?
Because...  
Giantgator : 7/3/2015 1:12 am : link
HIS AGENT TOLD EVERY TEAM HE WOULDN'T SIGN IF HE WAS DRAFTED AFTER THE THIRD ROUND.
grizz, the PR aspect is bigger than it seems  
WeatherMan : 7/3/2015 1:15 am : link
what team would want to be spun as the greedy fucks who drafted a mother and baby killing bastard for his talent despite the obvious risk (before he was cleared)? This isn't a case of slid down the draft board because he liked to get stoned on pot, this is a guy who until exonerated could not be touched.
Commissioner dropped the ball by not putting him in the  
Lurts : 7/3/2015 1:33 am : link
supplemental draft because he didn't want to "set a precedent. "

Gutless.

And now he's the only undrafted rookie allowed to attend the seminars the league holds to give the draftees the facts of pro life?

How is that consistent?
Good comments  
grizz299 : 7/3/2015 3:01 am : link
GiantGator thinks it's about his threat not to sign...
If he sits out a year, well that's a ton of money to walk away from and he's not going to get as much the following year....
Has anyone actually ever sat out a year? I know Elway threatened to do it and I quess Eli did too. Fact is, they didn't and I'm not sure it's ever happened.

Great Dane's point is that 7th round picks are more valuable today than in the past. I dunno, I don't see alot of seventh rounders significantly contributing. I'd risk a seventh rounder to get a kid with this much potential even if the odds of geting him were long. If his agent said he won't sign after the third, then I'd still bet he's sign for a fourth. then the equation becomes would you rather have this kid and his problem or whatever you took in the fourth round.

WeatherMan said: " this is a guy who until exonerated could not be touched."
NFL teams reguarly investigate prospects and go back to their crib days for goodness sake. There was time here, don't you think they'd get a Private Investigator on a plane or someone who knew the cops and could get the inside story.?
As it turns out there isn't a scrap linking him to the crime. Wouldn't that have shown up in any preliminary investigation?....
I read every post, not sure anyone found a reason that explains what happened.

Grizz -  
aquidneck : 7/3/2015 3:14 am : link
Bo Jackson drafted #1 by Tampa Bay in 1985, Sat out the year and was drafted by Oakland in 1986.

If Collins was drafted in the 7th round his salary would have been slotted and he would be making less than he is now as a rookie FA. Agent might have had a point with sitting out and waiting for a higher round opportunity.
RE: Commissioner dropped the ball by not putting him in the  
Optimus-NY : 7/3/2015 4:59 am : link
In comment 12354905 Lurts said:
Quote:
supplemental draft because he didn't want to "set a precedent. "

Gutless.

And now he's the only undrafted rookie allowed to attend the seminars the league holds to give the draftees the facts of pro life?

How is that consistent?



That was definitely inconsistent.
I hope we don't start entering a discussion  
smshmth8690 : 7/3/2015 5:42 am : link
where posters say 'it would have been worth wasting a 7th rounder to keep him away from Dallas'. Didn't Collins already have one story come out about him with a hooker? This guy, while a great talent, is going to be a bad press magnet.
To be equitable  
Florida Ray : 7/3/2015 6:41 am : link
the league should have moved him to the supplemental draft
My opinion  
JohnB : 7/3/2015 6:45 am : link
If he went undrafted, he couldn't enter the 2016 draft and would get paid as a FA, read: very little.

If Collins was drafted late in the draft and didn't sign, he could enter the 2016 draft which would have been great for Collins because he could clear his name and get 1st round money in 2016.

So a late round pick would, in effect, gives Collins a golden ticket into the 2016 draft, all he would have to do is to take a year off. It would be worth it to sit out and prep for 2016.

So a late round pick (4th or later) on Collins is a 100% certain to be a wasted pick.
RE: Because...  
Scyber : 7/3/2015 7:43 am : link
In comment 12354902 Giantgator said:
Quote:
HIS AGENT TOLD EVERY TEAM HE WOULDN'T SIGN IF HE WAS DRAFTED AFTER THE THIRD ROUND.


^This. Also, didn't some team say the called in the 7th round to say they were gonna draft him and his Agent told them that would be a big mistake? So basically after the 3rd round the Agent was sabotaging any signing to get the better undrafted rookie free agent deal he wanted.
a bunch of non answers.  
Glover : 7/3/2015 8:00 am : link
Jerry Jones is a genius.
RE: Because...  
Moondawg : 7/3/2015 8:22 am : link
In comment 12354902 Giantgator said:
Quote:
HIS AGENT TOLD EVERY TEAM HE WOULDN'T SIGN IF HE WAS DRAFTED AFTER THE THIRD ROUND.


Thank you for fighting the good fight!
I think it was  
Doomster : 7/3/2015 8:45 am : link
a League collusion! Teams were told not to draft him....but if Al Davis was alive, he would have pulled another Bo Jackson....

The crap about him not signing if drafted after the first round? Any team could have told him, they would renegotiate his contract after he signed....

How many players have held out for a year? And those that didn't play for a year(suspended, injury, etc.), how has that worked out for them?
Yesh  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/3/2015 9:15 am : link
you guys make handwringing and conspiracy theories an art -- but there is no story here

Collins Agent warned everyone off and they believed him - and after the draft Collins wanted to stay close to home --- there's really nothing going on here --- other than it's off season and you guys have nothing better to do with your time -- get a grip!
A non-issue,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2015 9:40 am : link
but I would have drafted him in the 7th in a heartbeat..I would have dropped him if he were implicated. Also in a heartbeat..

At worst we would have lost a 7th..Boo-hoo..

Big Blue  
Watson : 7/3/2015 11:05 am : link
When it became apparent to Collin's agent given the time, they were not going to be able to convince teams their client was innocent, their strategy was to scare off teams from using a low draft pick. Financially, UDFA was better.

I suspect that if his drop in the draft had been for a different reason, there would have been teams willing to take the chance. However, considering the statistics on murder of women, plus pregnant, plus gun used as weapon, your are getting into an area where the risk wasn't worth calling the bluff.
It tells you how desperate Jimmuh is  
old man : 7/3/2015 11:10 am : link
to get another SB if the RAIDERS<BENGALS< AND RAVENS wouldn't take the PR risk.
Then again, the Jummuh loves him some PR, and g_h_.
I hate to agree with Doomster  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 7/3/2015 11:10 am : link
But...... I really do believe that a league wide collusion is not just possible but likely. As Grizz points out, it just doesn't make sense.

So the agent warned all the teams... yada yada yada. Every team believed him? No. Agents' warnings are not necessarily treated as gospel.

A 7th round investment for a guy rated as a 1st rounder? Nobody?

His reputation would be too easy to explain if he was later implicated. "Innocent until proven guilty" or something of the like.

And the silliest of all is that Jerry Jones is a genius. If he were smarter then everybody he would have used his 7th rounder. But he stayed away too.

No. All of that is BS. IMO Something stinks here.
If Collins stayed out of trouble,  
dcp : 7/3/2015 11:52 am : link
He would have been a Rd 1 choice and we would not have taken him. The Giants needed a tackle. I'll take my chances on Flowers with no rap sheet.
RE: I hate to agree with Doomster  
SGMen : 7/3/2015 2:05 pm : link
In comment 12355134 Still a Sam Huff fan said:
Quote:
But...... I really do believe that a league wide collusion is not just possible but likely. As Grizz points out, it just doesn't make sense.

So the agent warned all the teams... yada yada yada. Every team believed him? No. Agents' warnings are not necessarily treated as gospel.

A 7th round investment for a guy rated as a 1st rounder? Nobody?

His reputation would be too easy to explain if he was later implicated. "Innocent until proven guilty" or something of the like.

And the silliest of all is that Jerry Jones is a genius. If he were smarter then everybody he would have used his 7th rounder. But he stayed away too.

No. All of that is BS. IMO Something stinks here.
J. Jones and the Cowboys lucked out here. However, we may too have lucked out with Canadian B. Jones. I really believe B. Jones will, at worst, be a solid NFL center. I know we have Richburg and he starts but you are often only as good as your depth. I also have a feeling B. Jones will be good enough to play OG in this league despite his smaller stature (6' 1" though listed as 6' 2", that is based on eyeball observation not fact). He is powerfully built and was dominant in the CFL.

Jones will likely need a year to learn the nuances of the NFL but learn he will. Maybe by the end of camp we'll find we too got a steal. I believe Collins will be solid at OG but he's also a rookie so no telling how good he'll be until he learns the ropes.

What is going to be the shelf life of the Collins  
Headhunter : 7/3/2015 3:17 pm : link
story? Will it pop up every time who/whomever is The Giants RT gives up a sack for the next 10 seasons? When does this stop?
.  
Pat from Inside Football : 7/4/2015 8:46 am : link
People are wringing their hands with worry because of the inexperience this team has at safety, a position that is going to be filled by the "other" Collins, a kid with clear first-round talent.

Yet people who keep pining for La'el Collins don't seem to express any worry that had he landed with the Giants, he too would have been an inexperienced player on a unit that, if it's not functioning properly means no running game and no passing game.

I'd be more concerned with getting a veteran OT upgrade right now from upcoming cuts than I'd be worrying about a "me first" kid who reportedly didn't want to be drafted past the third round and who reportedly didn't want to play for a cold weather team.

Oh for those who think he was bluffing and would have been happy to land with any team, or that if he had been allowed to enter the supplemental draft the Giants could have had him, anyone remember what happened when the Giants drafted Gary Zimmerman in the supplemental draft?

You spend a first through third pick I. The supplemental draft that means you lose the corresponding pick in the following year's draft.

Was it really worth it to take that gamble knowing that Collins might have pulled the same power play Zimmerman did?

Happy 4th!
RE: Big Blue  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2015 9:24 am : link
In comment 12355124 Watson said:
Quote:
When it became apparent to Collin's agent given the time, they were not going to be able to convince teams their client was innocent, their strategy was to scare off teams from using a low draft pick. Financially, UDFA was better.

I suspect that if his drop in the draft had been for a different reason, there would have been teams willing to take the chance. However, considering the statistics on murder of women, plus pregnant, plus gun used as weapon, your are getting into an area where the risk wasn't worth calling the bluff.


Understood, but anything an Agent says or threatens can be divided by 20 imo..
The early consensus  
TMS : 7/4/2015 9:30 am : link
is that Dallas got a steal getting Collins. literally an additional first round pick. They were a playoff team that won its division last year. Total BS no matter how you spin it or how he works out. How it happened is still a mystery. Something is seriously wrong that the league let this happen.
The real question is La'el over who we took in rounds 2 or 3  
TD : 7/4/2015 10:00 am : link
Honestly, I would have rolled the dice on him in one of those rounds. Probably round 3. We rolled the dice on Odi and his hip - its a different type of gamble but at that point, La'el was not even a suspect (and turned out never to be).
It's a fair subject  
grizz299 : 7/6/2015 5:30 pm : link
and would be so without him going to the Cowboys and without our problems at the position.

And again, it's compelling because it's tough to understand how it could happen.

But of course, if you think it's redundant and bothers you one wonders why you read it and why you felt compelled to be critical....If it's of no import to you...that's fine.
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