been walking more now that he's left the mets. He just in general has been a much more aggressive hitter. Marlon Byrd taught him to be more aggressive and it's helped both players. It's possibly the new trend for hitters to combat this age of pitching.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Sandy said that he's not firing Collins and that it is unfair to blame
It's not a gross exaggeration. You just cherry picked one part where he uses the injury excuse. I'm assuming you read the entire article and just missed this part?
"We've got five or six guys that are hitting under .200 for the last two, three, four weeks -- the month of June. You can go right around the infield. You can go to parts of the outfield. That's got to turn around."
Sounds like blame to me.
The article I read didn't have that part of the quote. But it doesn't change my opinion.
Is what he said false? Is he saying the players aren't trying, or not hustling or not reading coaches signs? That would be laying blame. All he's doing is stating a fact. Their best hitters have been injured. The guys who are playing aren't hitting.
Even from your quote he blamed the younger players while propping up the veterans, lol. What load had Cuddyer carried this season? Aside from Granderson's recent streak, what load did he carry? Gimme a break. The vets have been two of the biggest issues. But no, he didn't list their names. Whatever. His comments weren't THAT bad - if that's what you want me to say. Besides, my bigger issue was having to listen to him prop up Elmer Fudd again. Collins is going nowhere. Every team in MLB must be laughing their ass off at the Mets. There is no reason for that doof to be in a Mets uniform any longer.
RE: Z, no reason to start a war, it's all just opinions anyway.
Yes, the "potential" of the team has grossly improved under Alderson. Even though a lot of the young players are Minaya guys, they have been able to develop under Alderson's regime. That's really about it. Kudos on the Beltran/Dickey trades. It all doesn't mean dick if you cannot/will not build a team around the young players.
The Mets have won 77, 74, 74, 79 games under Alderson and t his season is looking about the same. Maybe even worse. And yes, injuries have played a part but you can't convince me that they would be in first if DW, TdA, and Murphy were healthy all year. It's possible but they could be just as cold and hapless as the rest of the team right now. That would fit their history more closely than overachieving would. But you could be right too.
Yes, Sandy has done an outstanding job with this young pitching. He's been piss poor with building a team around them. He controls way too much of the on-field decisions from his ivory tower. And i've said for a long time that his low-aggression philosophy and moneyball ways are a detriment to this team. Nobody won dick with the moneyball philosophy. Decent movie though.
Ok. Id argue that Sandy had a long term approach from the beginning which is why he went high school, high school, high school, college in his approach to the draft and Id also argue he traded off assets knowing the prospects would line up pretty close to his drafts. It was a rebuilding period so the wins from then until now don't mean much to me. How many Matz's, Syndergaards, degroms, herreras, TDAs, Familias, Mejias, ect have arrived within the last year? How many still aren't here? Seems to me the timeline was always around 2015/2016.
Also you can argue TDA, Wright, and Murphy might have slumped the whole time but thats not how wins above replacement work. Their replacements were actually WAY below replacement level. Just them in the lineup beating a pulse likely produces an extra 6 wins whether they were hot or cold or not.
Just my two cents. Ive actually agreed with 99 percent of everything you've posted this year.
been walking more now that he's left the mets. He just in general has been a much more aggressive hitter. Marlon Byrd taught him to be more aggressive and it's helped both players. It's possibly the new trend for hitters to combat this age of pitching.
Exactly. Something that will never happen under Alderson. And that's the most frustrating part. Plus, Turner and Byrd could/should both be Mets right now...making them a better team.
there are very few people in the world better at what they
been walking more now that he's left the mets. He just in general has been a much more aggressive hitter. Marlon Byrd taught him to be more aggressive and it's helped both players. It's possibly the new trend for hitters to combat this age of pitching.
Exactly. Something that will never happen under Alderson. And that's the most frustrating part. Plus, Turner and Byrd could/should both be Mets right now...making them a better team.
I never got the Turner bashing here. There were at least two posters here that absolutely hated him. I always thought in the very least he was a nice bench piece.
healthy all year. They may be in first or may not. Relying on DW and TdA to be healthy all year without a viable backup was extremely shortsighted but it is what it is.
That being said, I just don't believe that Alderson's style of play is a winning formula. It was a fad. A fad that never really panned out but got people talking because of that one Athletics season. Aggressive play has always proved fruitful since the creation of baseball.
Lastly, sometimes the timeline that you created 4 years ago may change. In fact, there's a good chance that it will. There's no reason why a rebuild for a NY team should take 5-6 years, but whatever. There comes a time where you look at your team and push the bar. They knew the pitching was coming. Even with the injuries, there were moves to be made. Maybe nothing significant. But things to help the team.
I just have such a fundamental difference in philosophy about how baseball should be played...not that I know everything, but I know enough. Eh, thats all.
you do that 10 out of 10 to get upside players, simply a no brainer for a going nowhere team. Turner was league average for a back up and was about to get expensive. He turned it around after he left, it wasn't like he was getting better and the mets let him go. Dodgers got lucky with that one.
I don't think many GMS could have done it in NY. You might think its unacceptable to rebuild a team in NY in 4-5 years but thats actually why I like Sandy. He had the balls to do what most people wouldn't . He was patient almost to a fault. He evaluated people like Lagares, Duda, and Flores and didn't make any rash decisions and purposely went high school with an extreme long term approach. Omar and Phillips and Duquette could have never done that. Lets not also not forget that his hands were almost completely tied the first few years and had to shed most of those other GMs messes before he could do anything in the first place.
You might not be up on this franchise right now but I think our organization from top to bottom is extremely healthy. We have three first round pick hitters ready to hit the show around next years time and I think with the pitching all just getting here we will be able to fill in the gaps at this time. I think we will be a playoff competitior for the foreseeable future. We are just a wee bit early.
He keeps getting better. His FIP is 3.36 so its not like he's really been bad in the first place. Verrett has impressed me and I love Gilmartin. Its the Torres clowns that have me on edge every time they come in.
I don't think many GMS could have done it in NY. You might think its unacceptable to rebuild a team in NY in 4-5 years but thats actually why I like Sandy. He had the balls to do what most people wouldn't . He was patient almost to a fault. He evaluated people like Lagares, Duda, and Flores and didn't make any rash decisions and purposely went high school with an extreme long term approach. Omar and Phillips and Duquette could have never done that. Lets not also not forget that his hands were almost completely tied the first few years and had to shed most of those other GMs messes before he could do anything in the first place.
You might not be up on this franchise right now but I think our organization from top to bottom is extremely healthy. We have three first round pick hitters ready to hit the show around next years time and I think with the pitching all just getting here we will be able to fill in the gaps at this time. I think we will be a playoff competitior for the foreseeable future. We are just a wee bit early.
Hopefully you are right. But it's still just potential. And you still need to build around the young players. Murphy will probably be gone. DW will be older..and and really can't be relied on much as each year goes by. And who knows about TdA but we don't have to reopen that discussion right now. Still not seeing much offense. And if we have to wait years for players to progress that aren't even here yet, well...we are going to start to lose all that pitching depth.
We may be set up with the youth...won't argue with that one...but it means dick if you can't build a team around them. Plus, I get that Sandy had a long term plan and drafted a lot of HS players b/c of that long term plan...but that seems like a really risky process. Drafting kids so young seems like such a crap shoot. So much can still change with them and you don't even know how they will face better competition. Unlike college players who are a bit more proven. I'd be interested to know if other GMs draft HS players as heavily as Sandy did. Just a thought.
I don't think many GMS could have done it in NY. You might think its unacceptable to rebuild a team in NY in 4-5 years but thats actually why I like Sandy. He had the balls to do what most people wouldn't . He was patient almost to a fault. He evaluated people like Lagares, Duda, and Flores and didn't make any rash decisions and purposely went high school with an extreme long term approach. Omar and Phillips and Duquette could have never done that. Lets not also not forget that his hands were almost completely tied the first few years and had to shed most of those other GMs messes before he could do anything in the first place.
You might not be up on this franchise right now but I think our organization from top to bottom is extremely healthy. We have three first round pick hitters ready to hit the show around next years time and I think with the pitching all just getting here we will be able to fill in the gaps at this time. I think we will be a playoff competitior for the foreseeable future. We are just a wee bit early.
Hopefully you are right. But it's still just potential. And you still need to build around the young players. Murphy will probably be gone. DW will be older..and and really can't be relied on much as each year goes by. And who knows about TdA but we don't have to reopen that discussion right now. Still not seeing much offense. And if we have to wait years for players to progress that aren't even here yet, well...we are going to start to lose all that pitching depth.
We may be set up with the youth...won't argue with that one...but it means dick if you can't build a team around them. Plus, I get that Sandy had a long term plan and drafted a lot of HS players b/c of that long term plan...but that seems like a really risky process. Drafting kids so young seems like such a crap shoot. So much can still change with them and you don't even know how they will face better competition. Unlike college players who are a bit more proven. I'd be interested to know if other GMs draft HS players as heavily as Sandy did. Just a thought.
I agree. And If I had to take a wild guess, it was because Sandy felt he wanted to teach these kids the way he wanted them to play from the ground up. Any coincidence guys like Nimmo, Cechinni, and Smith are supposed to have patient approaches? The entire organization was changed form top to bottom. Every coach in our system was asked to get on the same page as Sandy's and those that didn't were replaced.
You might argue whether his philosophy is right or wrong. He thinks its right. I will say that that slowing down the development of the entire system has paid dividends. Omar was rushing everyone through like a mad man because..?.. he wanted immediate results... while Mejia and Fernando and Gomez all suffered the consequences.
So when will we know? I guess soon. So far Nimmo, Cechinni, and Conforto all look to be on pace to be major league players which is a huge feat in and of itself. Will they be stars? I don't know. I guess we'll find out.
But until he can refine his secondary offering he is a risk in key situations because hitters will sit fastball
Sure but he seems to be mixing the slider in more. He's been pretty impressive overall. Where else is he going to learn? Vegas? I don't agree with that and Id DFA A. Torres. I don't care that we traded for him.
Robles could be a bona fied late inning reliever for many years. He has essentially replaced Black as far as Im concerned.
Is it weird Im actually looking for positives in Thor, Robles, ect and fully expecting us to lose tonight? lol. I have zero confidence in our lineup right now.
He's right back swinging for homeruns. Every time he shortens up and just tries to slap singles around it works but for some reason he thinks he's Giancarlo Stanton every time he heats up. What a moron.
first round pitchers( Harvey, Wheeler, and Syndergaard) Id say Syndergaard is easily the most impressive out of the gate. He'll still have his bumps but man has he been fun to watch.
He is by far and away my number one target for sport starter long man next year, assuming he is willing to accept that role and come back. That is also the reason I am in no rush to bump Niese off of the #5 spot. You can't just throw 97 all series long to a team, you need variety. Hitting is all about timing - you need to screw it up.
to paraphrase you knew coming in that as a highly touted guy he would have good stuff but what impressed him was the location of his curve ball throwing it for strikes. I looked like an idiot trying to hit it.
This from the guy with the best curveball in the game. He also said Thor's curveball was 10mph faster than his
Does anyone know why he took his bat with him when he went up to the plate? What a pathetic at-bat.
Nice win though as the Mets finally get a break with Duda's bloop double.
Before the call up I thought he would grow on Mets fans. And he would struggle at first before turning the corner. Anyone guess who may surprisingly be having the biggest impact on this great mythical run of pitching?
He hasn't turned the corner yet, he probably still isn't ready to. But he is exactly what Alderson had in mind when planning this turn around.
Quote:
It's not a gross exaggeration. You just cherry picked one part where he uses the injury excuse. I'm assuming you read the entire article and just missed this part?
"We've got five or six guys that are hitting under .200 for the last two, three, four weeks -- the month of June. You can go right around the infield. You can go to parts of the outfield. That's got to turn around."
Sounds like blame to me.
The article I read didn't have that part of the quote. But it doesn't change my opinion.
Is what he said false? Is he saying the players aren't trying, or not hustling or not reading coaches signs? That would be laying blame. All he's doing is stating a fact. Their best hitters have been injured. The guys who are playing aren't hitting.
Even from your quote he blamed the younger players while propping up the veterans, lol. What load had Cuddyer carried this season? Aside from Granderson's recent streak, what load did he carry? Gimme a break. The vets have been two of the biggest issues. But no, he didn't list their names. Whatever. His comments weren't THAT bad - if that's what you want me to say. Besides, my bigger issue was having to listen to him prop up Elmer Fudd again. Collins is going nowhere. Every team in MLB must be laughing their ass off at the Mets. There is no reason for that doof to be in a Mets uniform any longer.
The Mets have won 77, 74, 74, 79 games under Alderson and t his season is looking about the same. Maybe even worse. And yes, injuries have played a part but you can't convince me that they would be in first if DW, TdA, and Murphy were healthy all year. It's possible but they could be just as cold and hapless as the rest of the team right now. That would fit their history more closely than overachieving would. But you could be right too.
Yes, Sandy has done an outstanding job with this young pitching. He's been piss poor with building a team around them. He controls way too much of the on-field decisions from his ivory tower. And i've said for a long time that his low-aggression philosophy and moneyball ways are a detriment to this team. Nobody won dick with the moneyball philosophy. Decent movie though.
Ok. Id argue that Sandy had a long term approach from the beginning which is why he went high school, high school, high school, college in his approach to the draft and Id also argue he traded off assets knowing the prospects would line up pretty close to his drafts. It was a rebuilding period so the wins from then until now don't mean much to me. How many Matz's, Syndergaards, degroms, herreras, TDAs, Familias, Mejias, ect have arrived within the last year? How many still aren't here? Seems to me the timeline was always around 2015/2016.
Also you can argue TDA, Wright, and Murphy might have slumped the whole time but thats not how wins above replacement work. Their replacements were actually WAY below replacement level. Just them in the lineup beating a pulse likely produces an extra 6 wins whether they were hot or cold or not.
Just my two cents. Ive actually agreed with 99 percent of everything you've posted this year.
Exactly. Something that will never happen under Alderson. And that's the most frustrating part. Plus, Turner and Byrd could/should both be Mets right now...making them a better team.
Quote:
been walking more now that he's left the mets. He just in general has been a much more aggressive hitter. Marlon Byrd taught him to be more aggressive and it's helped both players. It's possibly the new trend for hitters to combat this age of pitching.
Exactly. Something that will never happen under Alderson. And that's the most frustrating part. Plus, Turner and Byrd could/should both be Mets right now...making them a better team.
I never got the Turner bashing here. There were at least two posters here that absolutely hated him. I always thought in the very least he was a nice bench piece.
That being said, I just don't believe that Alderson's style of play is a winning formula. It was a fad. A fad that never really panned out but got people talking because of that one Athletics season. Aggressive play has always proved fruitful since the creation of baseball.
Lastly, sometimes the timeline that you created 4 years ago may change. In fact, there's a good chance that it will. There's no reason why a rebuild for a NY team should take 5-6 years, but whatever. There comes a time where you look at your team and push the bar. They knew the pitching was coming. Even with the injuries, there were moves to be made. Maybe nothing significant. But things to help the team.
I just have such a fundamental difference in philosophy about how baseball should be played...not that I know everything, but I know enough. Eh, thats all.
You might not be up on this franchise right now but I think our organization from top to bottom is extremely healthy. We have three first round pick hitters ready to hit the show around next years time and I think with the pitching all just getting here we will be able to fill in the gaps at this time. I think we will be a playoff competitior for the foreseeable future. We are just a wee bit early.
Robles has a chance to be a good young late inning reliever.
You might not be up on this franchise right now but I think our organization from top to bottom is extremely healthy. We have three first round pick hitters ready to hit the show around next years time and I think with the pitching all just getting here we will be able to fill in the gaps at this time. I think we will be a playoff competitior for the foreseeable future. We are just a wee bit early.
Hopefully you are right. But it's still just potential. And you still need to build around the young players. Murphy will probably be gone. DW will be older..and and really can't be relied on much as each year goes by. And who knows about TdA but we don't have to reopen that discussion right now. Still not seeing much offense. And if we have to wait years for players to progress that aren't even here yet, well...we are going to start to lose all that pitching depth.
We may be set up with the youth...won't argue with that one...but it means dick if you can't build a team around them. Plus, I get that Sandy had a long term plan and drafted a lot of HS players b/c of that long term plan...but that seems like a really risky process. Drafting kids so young seems like such a crap shoot. So much can still change with them and you don't even know how they will face better competition. Unlike college players who are a bit more proven. I'd be interested to know if other GMs draft HS players as heavily as Sandy did. Just a thought.
Quote:
I don't think many GMS could have done it in NY. You might think its unacceptable to rebuild a team in NY in 4-5 years but thats actually why I like Sandy. He had the balls to do what most people wouldn't . He was patient almost to a fault. He evaluated people like Lagares, Duda, and Flores and didn't make any rash decisions and purposely went high school with an extreme long term approach. Omar and Phillips and Duquette could have never done that. Lets not also not forget that his hands were almost completely tied the first few years and had to shed most of those other GMs messes before he could do anything in the first place.
You might not be up on this franchise right now but I think our organization from top to bottom is extremely healthy. We have three first round pick hitters ready to hit the show around next years time and I think with the pitching all just getting here we will be able to fill in the gaps at this time. I think we will be a playoff competitior for the foreseeable future. We are just a wee bit early.
Hopefully you are right. But it's still just potential. And you still need to build around the young players. Murphy will probably be gone. DW will be older..and and really can't be relied on much as each year goes by. And who knows about TdA but we don't have to reopen that discussion right now. Still not seeing much offense. And if we have to wait years for players to progress that aren't even here yet, well...we are going to start to lose all that pitching depth.
We may be set up with the youth...won't argue with that one...but it means dick if you can't build a team around them. Plus, I get that Sandy had a long term plan and drafted a lot of HS players b/c of that long term plan...but that seems like a really risky process. Drafting kids so young seems like such a crap shoot. So much can still change with them and you don't even know how they will face better competition. Unlike college players who are a bit more proven. I'd be interested to know if other GMs draft HS players as heavily as Sandy did. Just a thought.
I agree. And If I had to take a wild guess, it was because Sandy felt he wanted to teach these kids the way he wanted them to play from the ground up. Any coincidence guys like Nimmo, Cechinni, and Smith are supposed to have patient approaches? The entire organization was changed form top to bottom. Every coach in our system was asked to get on the same page as Sandy's and those that didn't were replaced.
You might argue whether his philosophy is right or wrong. He thinks its right. I will say that that slowing down the development of the entire system has paid dividends. Omar was rushing everyone through like a mad man because..?.. he wanted immediate results... while Mejia and Fernando and Gomez all suffered the consequences.
So when will we know? I guess soon. So far Nimmo, Cechinni, and Conforto all look to be on pace to be major league players which is a huge feat in and of itself. Will they be stars? I don't know. I guess we'll find out.
Sure but he seems to be mixing the slider in more. He's been pretty impressive overall. Where else is he going to learn? Vegas? I don't agree with that and Id DFA A. Torres. I don't care that we traded for him.
Robles could be a bona fied late inning reliever for many years. He has essentially replaced Black as far as Im concerned.
Robles, Parnell, Mejia, Familia could be lights out.
Man is Syndergaard impressive. This good this early is almost unbelievable.
Offense blows dog.
Defending Collins is a waste of breath.
Thor is improving at an impressive rate.
Robles has a future if he can find a reliable off speed pitch.
So yeah we have that guy...
This from the guy with the best curveball in the game. He also said Thor's curveball was 10mph faster than his
Nice win though as the Mets finally get a break with Duda's bloop double.
Link - ( New Window )
He hasn't turned the corner yet, he probably still isn't ready to. But he is exactly what Alderson had in mind when planning this turn around.