as well and that is main reason we collapsed out of the playoff picture that year as well.
Injuries are part of the game, yes, but what would be the odds of our leading a 32 team league two years in a row in terms of metrics on man games lost due to injury? 1 in 10,000 or something I'd bet.
You have to believe things will finally look up this year. It isn't just strength and conditioning stuff but plain old bad luck.
I'm hoping the Eagles reverse position with us! (smile)
Then again, if Ward and Shockey don't get hurt in 2007 allowing Bradshaw and Boss to start do we win the Super Bowl. Or if Dom Hixon doesn't tear his ACL (for the 2nd time) and Cruz does not start do we win the Super Bowl in 2011. There is a YIN/YANG here for sure.
the chances of the Giants leading the league in them in any season would be 1/32. Two seasons in a row would be 32 X 32 = 1,024, not 1/10,000.
One in a thousand is bad enough but I do not believe that NFL injuries are random. Belief is not proof though. I am working on a statistical way of examining that very important question. It is quite important because if injuries are not random then there is cause and effect and something can be done to lower them. For instance, the type of field surface is a possible cause of injuries. (However, someone has compared Giant injuries on various surfaces and shown that they are not a factor).
Of course that still leaves other factors to check out. Would anyone out there care to present a list of them?
There's no questioning the Giants have been hit by injuries badly, but I am always suspicious of the games missed measure. The Giants have brought some beat up bodies into camp for a look. They've also been out of contention early the last 2 years shelved some guys to get a look at others.
There's no questioning the Giants have been hit by injuries badly, but I am always suspicious of the games missed measure. The Giants have brought some beat up bodies into camp for a look. They've also been out of contention early the last 2 years shelved some guys to get a look at others.
#32 is #32 no matter how you slice it. Other teams do the same things the Giants do.
Last year we lost a lot of guys to IR and many of our guys barely played (Beason, Schwarz, Jenkins) or missed signifcant time (Beckham).
Of course - there's no disputing the Giants have suffered alot of injuries. But I think the brutal lack of talent and dragging corpses like Chris Snee into camp explain the vast disparity. Chris Snee and Mario Manningham wouldn't have sniffed camp on another team last year but we brought them in hoping for a miracle.
In part it is the training staff and medical dept., no doubt. I also believe a big part is Coughlin. He came here and told us point blank that this was a problem he was going to FIX, he thinks players need to play through these little issues, and since he has come here this team is always among the most injured teams, this is not luck or coincidence. I love Tom, but he has some big flaws also, this is one of them, he thinks it is still the 80's and he is like Parcells, the difference is that the Giants had a great training staff in those days, Parcell teams were not injury riddled at all, my guess is they were one of the least injured teams in his era.
Tom Coughlin said he could fix it, clearly he cannot. I don't think it is a problem that has a clear solution besides stop playing football. Every injury is not the same. What diet or amount of conditioning keeps you from breaking a leg?
are a disease...as contagious as polio. Injuries are a disease....as contagious as syphilis. Injuries are a disease…as contagious as bubonic plague... attacking one.....but infecting all. Ah! But curable.”
Trainer and strength and conditioning coach the entire time he has been with the Giants. The injuries were an issue before we won a super bowl and have continued ever since. They need to make a change because the same things continue to happen.
Well put JBG, being 32nd is one matter but the magnitude of the difference between the 31st and 32nd most injured over two seasons is significantly impressive.
of this thread has it pointed out what the responsibilities of the training staff are and how they react to injuries, not prevent them other than the same basics that all training staffs use.
Yet, people still don't understand what the different roles are between the trainers, strength and conditioning staff and the medical staff.
You'd think these threads could be educational, but they all serve to gather a bunch of people together with pitchforks, all aimed at targets they don't have a fucking clue what they are responsible for.
Well put JBG, being 32nd is one matter but the magnitude of the difference between the 31st and 32nd most injured over two seasons is significantly impressive.
In comment 12356400 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Quote:
31 and 32 is huge. I would settle for 31 with a 33% decrease.
Interesting. I didn't even notice the gap. I'm hoping for now worse than "middle of the pack" and for no "key" players to be hurt.
I'll say this again: if we had the normal "middle of the pack" injuries last year we'd have likely made the playoffs! If Cruz, Beckham and Schwarz had been healthy on offense the whole season this is a completely different team.
If Will Hill had made better choices and the rest of our secondary had stayed healthy all year we definitely make the playoffs.
So this year, my prayer is we stay healthy and if we do have injuries they aren't too our top-line players.
IE how much of each types of injuries we get vs. the rest of the league. How often they linger for all the individual types vs. the league etc. It's impossible to determine if it's luck or poor management. Even if it was one in a million that isn't enough to say if it's luck or not.
Personally I believe we aren't as good as say the Eagles and it probably goes all the way up to TC, Reese and ownership. One thing I noticed was when Reese answered the question about technology at the town hall meeting both in analysis and injury prevention / management he had the worst answer I have ever seen in response to how technologically advanced they are. And I talk to a lot of people about tech. He was vague, spoke on the subject with very little confidence and repeated himself often even emphasizing how many things they were "trying." He sounded like someone that knew they were behind that was trying everything they could to catch up without outright stating that.
Looks like God took me up on my offer before SB XLII Â
I assume this includes guys like Snee/Wilson, who shouldn't (weren't?) counted on anyway. The Giants have also often drafted guys whose draft year was plagued with injuries - to great success, but we could be seeing that in the numbers as well.
I have no idea how you can parse these out between luck and 'skill'.
are a disease...as contagious as polio. Injuries are a disease....as contagious as syphilis. Injuries are a disease…as contagious as bubonic plague... attacking one.....but infecting all. Ah! But curable.”
doesn't carry enough information to be able to try to place blame.
It's not the strength and condition coach's fault that Prince tore a muscle while attempting a tackle. What type of lift is supposed to prevent that?
It's not the S&C coach's fault Chris Snee was a walking cadaver before he retired. Nor is it the Strength and Condition coach's fault for a bunch of other injures.
...it is enough to realize something is different and wrong and try to pinpoint where the problem is. If all they can come up with is "bad luck" as the cause, they are not trying hard enough. We as fans do not have access to the information needed to root out the cause, but we sure have enough to know there is a problem.
I assume this includes guys like Snee/Wilson, who shouldn't (weren't?) counted on anyway. The Giants have also often drafted guys whose draft year was plagued with injuries - to great success, but we could be seeing that in the numbers as well.
I have no idea how you can parse these out between luck and 'skill'.
Here is how Football Outsiders scores the "Adjusted Games Lost" number. It uses 4 factors:
.05 x Players listed as probable
.38 x Players listed as questionable
.99 x Players listed as out
1.00 x Players on IR or PUP lists
So as we talk about the guys who are on IR, the Giants have had a sizable amount of guys who have been on the injury report in general as probable/questionable going into a game. While they played in that game, they performed far below their norm due to the ailments. The person I think about when it comes to this is Bradshaw in a game in 2012 at Baltimore trying to play on one good leg with the season sliding away when he probably shouldn't have been out there at all.
Injuries are part of the game, yes, but what would be the odds of our leading a 32 team league two years in a row in terms of metrics on man games lost due to injury? 1 in 10,000 or something I'd bet.
You have to believe things will finally look up this year. It isn't just strength and conditioning stuff but plain old bad luck.
I'm hoping the Eagles reverse position with us! (smile)
I'm just praying we finish no worse than top 10 rather than #32.
One in a thousand is bad enough but I do not believe that NFL injuries are random. Belief is not proof though. I am working on a statistical way of examining that very important question. It is quite important because if injuries are not random then there is cause and effect and something can be done to lower them. For instance, the type of field surface is a possible cause of injuries. (However, someone has compared Giant injuries on various surfaces and shown that they are not a factor).
Of course that still leaves other factors to check out. Would anyone out there care to present a list of them?
Last year we lost a lot of guys to IR and many of our guys barely played (Beason, Schwarz, Jenkins) or missed signifcant time (Beckham).
According to the chart, the Jets are #2. (scratch that theory)
Kelly might be doing something radical to prevent injuries, but the Jets? Doubtful, but maybe the Giants should look into what they're doing also?
Tom Coughlin
In comment 12356400 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Yet, people still don't understand what the different roles are between the trainers, strength and conditioning staff and the medical staff.
You'd think these threads could be educational, but they all serve to gather a bunch of people together with pitchforks, all aimed at targets they don't have a fucking clue what they are responsible for.
In comment 12356400 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Quote:
31 and 32 is huge. I would settle for 31 with a 33% decrease.
I'll say this again: if we had the normal "middle of the pack" injuries last year we'd have likely made the playoffs! If Cruz, Beckham and Schwarz had been healthy on offense the whole season this is a completely different team.
If Will Hill had made better choices and the rest of our secondary had stayed healthy all year we definitely make the playoffs.
So this year, my prayer is we stay healthy and if we do have injuries they aren't too our top-line players.
Personally I believe we aren't as good as say the Eagles and it probably goes all the way up to TC, Reese and ownership. One thing I noticed was when Reese answered the question about technology at the town hall meeting both in analysis and injury prevention / management he had the worst answer I have ever seen in response to how technologically advanced they are. And I talk to a lot of people about tech. He was vague, spoke on the subject with very little confidence and repeated himself often even emphasizing how many things they were "trying." He sounded like someone that knew they were behind that was trying everything they could to catch up without outright stating that.
I have no idea how you can parse these out between luck and 'skill'.
Tom Coughlin
LOL
The Natural - ( New Window )
It's not the strength and condition coach's fault that Prince tore a muscle while attempting a tackle. What type of lift is supposed to prevent that?
It's not the S&C coach's fault Chris Snee was a walking cadaver before he retired. Nor is it the Strength and Condition coach's fault for a bunch of other injures.
I have no idea how you can parse these out between luck and 'skill'.
Here is how Football Outsiders scores the "Adjusted Games Lost" number. It uses 4 factors:
.05 x Players listed as probable
.38 x Players listed as questionable
.99 x Players listed as out
1.00 x Players on IR or PUP lists
So as we talk about the guys who are on IR, the Giants have had a sizable amount of guys who have been on the injury report in general as probable/questionable going into a game. While they played in that game, they performed far below their norm due to the ailments. The person I think about when it comes to this is Bradshaw in a game in 2012 at Baltimore trying to play on one good leg with the season sliding away when he probably shouldn't have been out there at all.