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Do you believe in luck - Giants injury history.

Ira : 7/4/2015 12:47 pm
I have this bridge in Brooklyn you might want to invest in.



Thanks to defenderdawg for posting this article in his regular thread.
Link - ( New Window )
Remember, we were injury plagued at the end of 2012  
SGMen : 7/4/2015 12:51 pm : link
as well and that is main reason we collapsed out of the playoff picture that year as well.

Injuries are part of the game, yes, but what would be the odds of our leading a 32 team league two years in a row in terms of metrics on man games lost due to injury? 1 in 10,000 or something I'd bet.

You have to believe things will finally look up this year. It isn't just strength and conditioning stuff but plain old bad luck.

I'm hoping the Eagles reverse position with us! (smile)
Chip is doing something right  
Canton : 7/4/2015 1:08 pm : link
.
I still believe  
bluesince56 : 7/4/2015 1:22 pm : link
it's the strength and conditioning coaches. Yes, broken bones can't be helped but the amount of hamstrings especially by DB,s is strange
The chart is very informative  
Upstate_Giants_fan : 7/4/2015 1:25 pm : link
the article.....not so much
RE: Chip is doing something right  
SGMen : 7/4/2015 1:58 pm : link
In comment 12356060 Canton said:
Quote:
.
My gut tells me he doesn't end up quite as lucky this year and the Eagles have a losing record. Law of averages HAS TO catch up with them, doesn't it?

I'm just praying we finish no worse than top 10 rather than #32.
Eli is like:  
SHO'NUFF : 7/4/2015 3:25 pm : link
"Come on, guys! WTF?"

Believe me, these injuries drive me crazy.........  
Dry Lightning : 7/4/2015 4:18 pm : link
Then again, if Ward and Shockey don't get hurt in 2007 allowing Bradshaw and Boss to start do we win the Super Bowl. Or if Dom Hixon doesn't tear his ACL (for the 2nd time) and Cruz does not start do we win the Super Bowl in 2011. There is a YIN/YANG here for sure.
Too much yin  
PEEJ : 7/4/2015 4:24 pm : link
not enough yang (grin)
If injuries were completely random  
bigfish703 : 7/4/2015 5:13 pm : link
the chances of the Giants leading the league in them in any season would be 1/32. Two seasons in a row would be 32 X 32 = 1,024, not 1/10,000.

One in a thousand is bad enough but I do not believe that NFL injuries are random. Belief is not proof though. I am working on a statistical way of examining that very important question. It is quite important because if injuries are not random then there is cause and effect and something can be done to lower them. For instance, the type of field surface is a possible cause of injuries. (However, someone has compared Giant injuries on various surfaces and shown that they are not a factor).

Of course that still leaves other factors to check out. Would anyone out there care to present a list of them?
Thought injuries were a cancer?  
RDJR : 7/4/2015 5:29 pm : link
Didn't somebody say something like that?
...  
christian : 7/4/2015 6:30 pm : link
There's no questioning the Giants have been hit by injuries badly, but I am always suspicious of the games missed measure. The Giants have brought some beat up bodies into camp for a look. They've also been out of contention early the last 2 years shelved some guys to get a look at others.
RE: ...  
SGMen : 7/4/2015 6:40 pm : link
In comment 12356219 christian said:
Quote:
There's no questioning the Giants have been hit by injuries badly, but I am always suspicious of the games missed measure. The Giants have brought some beat up bodies into camp for a look. They've also been out of contention early the last 2 years shelved some guys to get a look at others.
#32 is #32 no matter how you slice it. Other teams do the same things the Giants do.

Last year we lost a lot of guys to IR and many of our guys barely played (Beason, Schwarz, Jenkins) or missed signifcant time (Beckham).
...  
christian : 7/4/2015 6:47 pm : link
Of course - there's no disputing the Giants have suffered alot of injuries. But I think the brutal lack of talent and dragging corpses like Chris Snee into camp explain the vast disparity. Chris Snee and Mario Manningham wouldn't have sniffed camp on another team last year but we brought them in hoping for a miracle.
I believe  
PaulN : 7/4/2015 8:54 pm : link
In part it is the training staff and medical dept., no doubt. I also believe a big part is Coughlin. He came here and told us point blank that this was a problem he was going to FIX, he thinks players need to play through these little issues, and since he has come here this team is always among the most injured teams, this is not luck or coincidence. I love Tom, but he has some big flaws also, this is one of them, he thinks it is still the 80's and he is like Parcells, the difference is that the Giants had a great training staff in those days, Parcell teams were not injury riddled at all, my guess is they were one of the least injured teams in his era.
Take a look at injuries over the last 20 years  
The Tempest : 7/5/2015 1:56 am : link
Tom Coughlin said he could fix it, clearly he cannot. I don't think it is a problem that has a clear solution besides stop playing football. Every injury is not the same. What diet or amount of conditioning keeps you from breaking a leg?
If it was the field  
Spyder : 7/5/2015 8:11 am : link
then the Jets should be in the same boat, no?

According to the chart, the Jets are #2. (scratch that theory)

Kelly might be doing something radical to prevent injuries, but the Jets? Doubtful, but maybe the Giants should look into what they're doing also?
"Injuries"  
Doomster : 7/5/2015 8:25 am : link
are a disease...as contagious as polio. Injuries are a disease....as contagious as syphilis. Injuries are a disease…as contagious as bubonic plague... attacking one.....but infecting all. Ah! But curable.”

Tom Coughlin
The margin between  
Jolly Blue Giant : 7/5/2015 8:41 am : link
31 and 32 is huge. I would settle for 31 with a 33% decrease.
Coughlin has employees the same  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/5/2015 9:00 am : link
Trainer and strength and conditioning coach the entire time he has been with the Giants. The injuries were an issue before we won a super bowl and have continued ever since. They need to make a change because the same things continue to happen.
RE: The margin between  
ep in md : 7/5/2015 9:02 am : link
Well put JBG, being 32nd is one matter but the magnitude of the difference between the 31st and 32nd most injured over two seasons is significantly impressive.


In comment 12356400 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Quote:
31 and 32 is huge. I would settle for 31 with a 33% decrease.
Most iterations..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/5/2015 9:17 am : link
of this thread has it pointed out what the responsibilities of the training staff are and how they react to injuries, not prevent them other than the same basics that all training staffs use.

Yet, people still don't understand what the different roles are between the trainers, strength and conditioning staff and the medical staff.

You'd think these threads could be educational, but they all serve to gather a bunch of people together with pitchforks, all aimed at targets they don't have a fucking clue what they are responsible for.
I'd expect the same to continue  
micky : 7/5/2015 2:09 pm : link
Til otherwise proven not.Depth players are the key
Great timing on this thread,  
SHO'NUFF : 7/5/2015 8:15 pm : link
nice one, Ira.
RE: RE: The margin between  
SGMen : 7/6/2015 12:52 am : link
In comment 12356406 ep in md said:
Quote:
Well put JBG, being 32nd is one matter but the magnitude of the difference between the 31st and 32nd most injured over two seasons is significantly impressive.


In comment 12356400 Jolly Blue Giant said:


Quote:


31 and 32 is huge. I would settle for 31 with a 33% decrease.

Interesting. I didn't even notice the gap. I'm hoping for now worse than "middle of the pack" and for no "key" players to be hurt.

I'll say this again: if we had the normal "middle of the pack" injuries last year we'd have likely made the playoffs! If Cruz, Beckham and Schwarz had been healthy on offense the whole season this is a completely different team.

If Will Hill had made better choices and the rest of our secondary had stayed healthy all year we definitely make the playoffs.

So this year, my prayer is we stay healthy and if we do have injuries they aren't too our top-line players.
Without really digging into the data  
NoGainDayne : 7/6/2015 3:39 am : link
IE how much of each types of injuries we get vs. the rest of the league. How often they linger for all the individual types vs. the league etc. It's impossible to determine if it's luck or poor management. Even if it was one in a million that isn't enough to say if it's luck or not.

Personally I believe we aren't as good as say the Eagles and it probably goes all the way up to TC, Reese and ownership. One thing I noticed was when Reese answered the question about technology at the town hall meeting both in analysis and injury prevention / management he had the worst answer I have ever seen in response to how technologically advanced they are. And I talk to a lot of people about tech. He was vague, spoke on the subject with very little confidence and repeated himself often even emphasizing how many things they were "trying." He sounded like someone that knew they were behind that was trying everything they could to catch up without outright stating that.


Looks like God took me up on my offer before SB XLII  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 7/6/2015 6:30 am : link
...
......  
BrettNYG10 : 7/6/2015 7:47 am : link
I assume this includes guys like Snee/Wilson, who shouldn't (weren't?) counted on anyway. The Giants have also often drafted guys whose draft year was plagued with injuries - to great success, but we could be seeing that in the numbers as well.

I have no idea how you can parse these out between luck and 'skill'.
RE:  
Hades07 : 7/6/2015 9:17 am : link
In comment 12356395 Doomster said:
Quote:
are a disease...as contagious as polio. Injuries are a disease....as contagious as syphilis. Injuries are a disease…as contagious as bubonic plague... attacking one.....but infecting all. Ah! But curable.”

Tom Coughlin


LOL
The Natural - ( New Window )
The raw number of injuries, without any context  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 9:45 am : link
doesn't carry enough information to be able to try to place blame.

It's not the strength and condition coach's fault that Prince tore a muscle while attempting a tackle. What type of lift is supposed to prevent that?

It's not the S&C coach's fault Chris Snee was a walking cadaver before he retired. Nor is it the Strength and Condition coach's fault for a bunch of other injures.
no it isn't enough to place blame....  
Hades07 : 7/6/2015 9:52 am : link
...it is enough to realize something is different and wrong and try to pinpoint where the problem is. If all they can come up with is "bad luck" as the cause, they are not trying hard enough. We as fans do not have access to the information needed to root out the cause, but we sure have enough to know there is a problem.
RE: ......  
BigBlueinChicago : 7/6/2015 9:53 am : link
In comment 12357385 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I assume this includes guys like Snee/Wilson, who shouldn't (weren't?) counted on anyway. The Giants have also often drafted guys whose draft year was plagued with injuries - to great success, but we could be seeing that in the numbers as well.

I have no idea how you can parse these out between luck and 'skill'.


Here is how Football Outsiders scores the "Adjusted Games Lost" number. It uses 4 factors:

.05 x Players listed as probable
.38 x Players listed as questionable
.99 x Players listed as out
1.00 x Players on IR or PUP lists

So as we talk about the guys who are on IR, the Giants have had a sizable amount of guys who have been on the injury report in general as probable/questionable going into a game. While they played in that game, they performed far below their norm due to the ailments. The person I think about when it comes to this is Bradshaw in a game in 2012 at Baltimore trying to play on one good leg with the season sliding away when he probably shouldn't have been out there at all.
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