NFT: From A speech given at Rochester, New York, July 5, 1852

thanks for sharing

passed in 1865. Vote breakdown:

House
88/88 Republicans
16/66 Democrats

Senate
30/30 Republicans
3/8 Democrats

The 14th Amendment granting newly emancipated blacks full civil rights and federal guarantee of those rights, superseding any state laws passed in 1868. Vote breakdown:

House
128/134 Republicans (8 not voting).
0/36 Democrats

Senate
30/32 Republicans (2 not voting)
0/6 Democrats

After some states refused to implement the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment was passed in 1870 guaranteeing blacks the right to vote. Every single Republican in Congress voted for it. Every single Democrat in Congress voted against it.

and that speech is worth a read in its entirety.

I don't know that Douglass gets his due nowadays from any side and that is a shame.

is being replaced by cradle to grave dependency on the government. I wonder what Frederick Douglass would think about that? It didn't work out very well for the native americans.

after we took away their way of life and all of their decent lands, and gave them low-grade educations? And wtf does that have to do with a speech about slavery?

Just wondering.

In comment 12356448 Bake54 said:

Quote:

passed in 1865. Vote breakdown: House 88/88 Republicans 16/66 Democrats Senate 30/30 Republicans 3/8 Democrats The 14th Amendment granting newly emancipated blacks full civil rights and federal guarantee of those rights, superseding any state laws passed in 1868. Vote breakdown: House 128/134 Republicans (8 not voting). 0/36 Democrats Senate 30/32 Republicans (2 not voting) 0/6 Democrats After some states refused to implement the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment was passed in 1870 guaranteeing blacks the right to vote. Every single Republican in Congress voted for it. Every single Democrat in Congress voted against it. Smh. The party's switched in the 1960's. Republicans represented the north and dems represented the south in the beginning. Example: Republican president Abraham Lincoln didn't win a single southern state in the south.

In comment 12356448 Bake54 said:

Quote:

passed in 1865. Vote breakdown: House 88/88 Republicans 16/66 Democrats Senate 30/30 Republicans 3/8 Democrats The 14th Amendment granting newly emancipated blacks full civil rights and federal guarantee of those rights, superseding any state laws passed in 1868. Vote breakdown: House 128/134 Republicans (8 not voting). 0/36 Democrats Senate 30/32 Republicans (2 not voting) 0/6 Democrats After some states refused to implement the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment was passed in 1870 guaranteeing blacks the right to vote. Every single Republican in Congress voted for it. Every single Democrat in Congress voted against it

As an American citizen, that's the best response you can come with in response to the Douglass speech about "The Meaning of July Fourth for the Negro"?

by assuming Bake has a point beyond parochialism with just a touch of racism. He doesn't change.

Somehow, that is supposed to prove that the Democrats of today are still the bad guys.

Quote:

being replaced by cradle to grave dependency on the government. I wonder what Frederick Douglass would think about that?

I am sure the greatest African American leader of the 19th century would be in full agreement with the talking points of today's white conservatives. Sure he would. Just like MLK would be.

In comment 12356495 manh george said:

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by assuming Bake has a point beyond parochialism with just a touch of racism. He doesn't change. Somehow, that is supposed to prove that the Democrats of today are still the bad guys.

This

In comment 12356448 Bake54 said:

Quote:

passed in 1865. Vote breakdown: House 88/88 Republicans 16/66 Democrats Senate 30/30 Republicans 3/8 Democrats The 14th Amendment granting newly emancipated blacks full civil rights and federal guarantee of those rights, superseding any state laws passed in 1868. Vote breakdown: House 128/134 Republicans (8 not voting). 0/36 Democrats Senate 30/32 Republicans (2 not voting) 0/6 Democrats After some states refused to implement the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment was passed in 1870 guaranteeing blacks the right to vote. Every single Republican in Congress voted for it. Every single Democrat in Congress voted against it.

Why on earth would this be of any import whatsoever in the context of this speech? I find this continuing obsession with left/right, my team vs your team so very sad and pointless...

In comment 12356454 averagejoe said:

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is being replaced by cradle to grave dependency on the government. I wonder what Frederick Douglass would think about that? It didn't work out very well for the native americans.

You are vile.

In comment 12356495 manh george said:

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by assuming Bake has a point beyond parochialism with just a touch of racism. He doesn't change. Somehow, that is supposed to prove that the Democrats of today are still the bad guys.

They are both the bad guys. With very few exceptions.

I see nothing of racism anywhere in the thread, Don't see any bad guys either.

In comment 12357366 grizz299 said:

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I see nothing of racism anywhere in the thread, Don't see any bad guys either.

I agree on the racism, but he clearly implied Dems were the bad guys and by some convoluted logic, must still be today. Otherwise, emphasizing the vote had no point at all.

Many petty difference of opinion are retorted with the charge of racism. I think it's the symptom of a lazy attitude toward critical thinking. Instead of presenting a reasoned argument, a slur reduces the need to think through a complicated issue.

In comment 12357387 BamaBlue said:

Quote:

Many petty difference of opinion are retorted with the charge of racism. I think it's the symptom of a lazy attitude toward critical thinking. Instead of presenting a reasoned argument, a slur reduces the need to think through a complicated issue.

Agree. So many discussions/arguments fall into attempts to end the exchange with a triumphant declaration of "Racist" "Homophobe", etc. and declare victory by assigning the label to your opponent. Seems there can be no productive exchange of opinion on certain subjects today

In comment 12357387 BamaBlue said:

Quote:

Many petty difference of opinion are retorted with the charge of racism. I think it's the symptom of a lazy attitude toward critical thinking. Instead of presenting a reasoned argument, a slur reduces the need to think through a complicated issue.

Eh...taking the history of the posters into context, George's post has much more relevance than you may think. So yes, there is no overt racism on this particular thread. However, if the pattern is to be examined, you can't rule out the genesis behind that particular post.

back then are completely different now. Should use the terms liberal, moderate and conservative instead. For example, Lincoln was a Republican but certainly not a conservative. The democrats in the south back then were very conservative and continued into the sixties when the democrats started switching their party affiliation to Rebublican.

That said, the speech of July 5, 1852 sounds very liberal.

I don't see Republicans as conservatives and Democrats as liberals in the new modern politics. I see both parties as populists, playing to a broad constituancy of people who only tune-in to politics when a presidential election is on the horizion.

IMHO... It's the squishy right-leaning moderates who won't make a decison (Republicans) versus the squishy left-leaning coalition of disenfranchised Americans (Democrats). The traditional ideolog conservatives and liberals are still in the game, but have been exiled from party power, because of their polarizing effects on the squishy middle...

both mainstream Dems and Reps are part of the same party of Corporatist beholden to Big Business.

the devotion to big business is a symbiotic trade of money for power. Political office is a power granted by the electorate and traded like a comodity by modern politicians. News organizations have become prey to this trade... after all, media outlets are big business disguised as entertainnment, news and sports organizations. The old 'journalistic integrity' is out the window and the power of the pen is a fair trade for access to power.

had a lot of respect for Douglas and was influenced by him. I think he had in the White House after his second inaugeral speech (only six weeks before the assasination) and I believe (I'll research this later) he turned to Douglas and asked "what did you think of my speech?)

There had been times when Douglas allowed himself to be disillusioned with Lincoln The Politician. Lincoln recognized how he had to play the game and didn't go in a straight line but zigged and zagged, But never lost sight of his goal. Douglas came to understand that and so is the public as manifested in Spellberg's film Lincoln, that isn't about the mythical Lincoln, but the practical Lincoln who plays the game, zigs and zags, but always keep his perspectives and his eye on the goal...which in the film is the 13 th. Amendment.
Lincoln lied to get his amendment, he sold patronage and propably bribed to get his amendment. The genius of the man was that he knew the Emancipation Proclamation wouldn't hold up in court and that it was based on a wartime act and therefore only applied to the States fighting against The Union. Delaware , for example, fought on the side of the union, still had slavery and would be exempt from The Emancipation. Because the war time act that Lincoln used said that we could attach the property of the beligerrants , The Emancipation, while freeing the slaves , confirmed that they were propoerty.
Lincoln understood all those nuances. So had to have an amendment to truly free the blacks. To do that he prolonged the war and had to live with sending more thousands of boys to die grisly deaths. He had to lie to congress about the South's willness to take a conditional surrender, he would have been forced to take peace but a peace without the 13th amendment was a defeat in Lincoln's eyes. So he zigs.
Douglas came to understand that.