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NFT: Yanks vs. Rays

blueblood'11 : 7/5/2015 2:34 pm
Five runners on in the first two innings and they can't get the big hit. And watching Nova pitch I can't help but wonder what the score would be if Warren had gotten the start. Again, how the fuck do you take a guy out of the rotation who has been pitching so well and put in this head case. Add to that Nova was given this start to give C.C. a break between starts as Warren sits in the bullpen. Makes sense to me.
that head case is 41-23 in his career  
Jints in Carolina : 7/5/2015 2:40 pm : link
and is coming off TJ surgery. CC is the one that should be taken out for Warren but they will never do that.
They have one hit  
PetesHereNow : 7/5/2015 2:41 pm : link
I think it has a little more to do with coming off two walkoff wins with lots of emotion, and so they're a little flat today. They'd be losing this game if Nova was pitching, Warren was pitching, or anybody for that matter.
Maybe not  
blueblood'11 : 7/5/2015 2:47 pm : link
This kid Mitchell may have been the answer they needed in the bullpen and they could have kept Warren in the rotation.
They were always only going to have five starters  
PetesHereNow : 7/5/2015 2:52 pm : link
and they're not going to move Sabathia (makes too much money), Tanaka, Pineda. The only other option was Eovaldi, and they love his arm, plus he has no bullpen experience.

Warren does, so he gets moved. I don't see the point of lamenting the future of an average to above average pitcher like Warren.
I don't quite understand  
MookGiants : 7/5/2015 2:54 pm : link
why Sabathia making a bunch of money means he has to stay in the rotation.

They have to pay him regardless, they are better off if they're paying him to sit in the bullpen or sit on the bench and not destroy the team every 5 days. They don't get a discount if he starts
RE: I don't quite understand  
PetesHereNow : 7/5/2015 3:03 pm : link
In comment 12356526 MookGiants said:
Quote:
why Sabathia making a bunch of money means he has to stay in the rotation.

They have to pay him regardless, they are better off if they're paying him to sit in the bullpen or sit on the bench and not destroy the team every 5 days. They don't get a discount if he starts


Two things have helped Sabathia stay in the rotation.. he's woven a few decent starts throughout the year which has been below average, but the peripherals for him look okay for a 4th-5th starter, and they're still in 1st place in a shitty division.

The only way he's going to salvage his career is if he starts and he pitches like late-career Andy Pettitte. I think he's tried to make the adjustment, and as I said, his peripherals actually look decent.
Headley  
MookGiants : 7/5/2015 3:23 pm : link
is useless
Getting a little tired of Headley  
Neckbone1333 : 7/5/2015 3:23 pm : link
...
Headley contract already looks bad  
Kyle in NY : 7/5/2015 3:23 pm : link
.
At least, strike out and give ARod a chance with 2 on  
PetesHereNow : 7/5/2015 3:24 pm : link
Weak grounders up the middle do nothing for us.
Don't know what Cashman was thinking  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/5/2015 3:26 pm : link
with that Headley contract. Woof.
Just friggin whiff next time  
Neckbone1333 : 7/5/2015 3:26 pm : link
.
The offense  
nygnyy274 : 7/5/2015 3:26 pm : link
Had been dreadful for the last week aside from after the 8th inning and 12th inning Friday, Headley stinks can't field and can't hit bum!!!!!!
Piera  
nygnyy274 : 7/5/2015 3:28 pm : link
Hahahahahahaa and yet we can't call up Refsynder because he can't field.
Apparantly  
CromartiesKid21 : 7/5/2015 5:24 pm : link
JPP bought a truck full of fireworks
whoops wrong thread  
CromartiesKid21 : 7/5/2015 5:24 pm : link
.
Would've been nice to get the sweep.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/5/2015 8:15 pm : link
But 2 out of 3 against a division opponent ain't bad.
Boston just 5 games back...  
Dunedin81 : 7/5/2015 8:27 pm : link
after the clusterfuck of a first half they've had. Helps that they're the only team over .500 their last ten games. They're still not a good team, but neither is anyone else in this division.
RE: Boston just 5 games back...  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/5/2015 8:47 pm : link
In comment 12357084 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
after the clusterfuck of a first half they've had. Helps that they're the only team over .500 their last ten games. They're still not a good team, but neither is anyone else in this division.


I saw that, too. I doubt they can go on a prolonged run, though. While the division isn't quality, they seem to be even less quality than the rest of the division.
Agree on Pirela  
blueblood'11 : 7/5/2015 9:55 pm : link
I have no idea what the Yankees see in this guy. I don't know how he stays on the roster and why they don't give Refsnyder a shot since the competition in spring training was between the two. Pirela has had his chance and he has done and continues to do shit. Now give Refsnyder his shot.
RE: Agree on Pirela  
Mike Graves : 7/6/2015 6:44 am : link
In comment 12357214 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
I have no idea what the Yankees see in this guy. I don't know how he stays on the roster and why they don't give Refsnyder a shot since the competition in spring training was between the two. Pirela has had his chance and he has done and continues to do shit. Now give Refsnyder his shot.


Refsnyder will continue to rot in Scranton this year we won't see him instead they will keep putting worthless bums like Drew and Pirela out their Cole Figueroa actually has decent numbers in Scranton he is a second basemen batting over .300 give him a call up and send down Pirela immediately
Figueroa is a AAAA player...  
Dunedin81 : 7/6/2015 8:12 am : link
Pirela may be nothing more than that, but I could understand giving him a shot. At this point though give Refsnyder a shot. Now. Give him three weeks of reps and if he hasn't shown you anything promising go try to get someone at the deadline.
Typical Yankees  
blueblood'11 : 7/6/2015 11:00 am : link
They have a way of fucking up prospects. Refsnyder deserve a shot. And Warren I fear will end up on some other team as a solid third starter. Either that or they will have fucked with him so much he'll wind up like Joba.
Joba? That's your big example?  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 11:15 am : link
First of all, what really hurt him was the shoulder injury. He was never the same pitcher after that. Second of all, he's a lazy, immature whiner. If you're going to point the finger at anyone for his failures, point it at him.
and regarding Refsnyder  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 11:17 am : link
He's an all-bat prospect who is merely OK at Scranton this year. .281/.378/.386 in AAA, for a guy whose hit tool absolutely has to carry him because his glove is atrocious? People act like the Yankees are burying Bobby Grich in the minors.
RE: and regarding Refsnyder  
Dunedin81 : 7/6/2015 11:24 am : link
In comment 12357751 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He's an all-bat prospect who is merely OK at Scranton this year. .281/.378/.386 in AAA, for a guy whose hit tool absolutely has to carry him because his glove is atrocious? People act like the Yankees are burying Bobby Grich in the minors.


His glove has been alright the last month, probably comparable to or better than Pirela. And even with a couple lengthy slumps he still has respectable season numbers. He isn't the second coming but he's a good prospect and there aren't good arguments against his promotion at this point.
they've been somewhat aggressive  
giants#1 : 7/6/2015 11:27 am : link
with promos throughout the minors this year (Avelino to Tampa, Judge/Severino/Bird to AAA, Mason to AAA then MLB, etc) so maybe things are starting to change and hopefully we'll see Ref shortly after the ASB.
RE: Joba? That's your big example?  
Tesla : 7/6/2015 11:41 am : link
In comment 12357746 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
First of all, what really hurt him was the shoulder injury. He was never the same pitcher after that. Second of all, he's a lazy, immature whiner. If you're going to point the finger at anyone for his failures, point it at him.


Thanks for pointing this out. The myth that the Yankees "ruined" Joba by moving him back and further between the pen and a starter is simply embedded in Yankee fans brains. Go check out his numbers after they moved him from the pen the rotation in 2008. He had a stretch were he was absolutely dominant - which ended when he hurt his shoulder in Texas.

The Yankees didn't ruin Joba, he got hurt.
I really feel like...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2015 11:44 am : link
Yankees fans want to see talent come up from the minors. We talk about suffering through the growing pains with the rookies.

Yet it is clear that we have a lot of talent which is working its way up through the system at a pretty good pace. And yet there seems to be little patience amongst the fans to settle for a poor outcome this season if necessary at the MLB level in order to continue to develop these young players.
RE: I really feel like...  
giants#1 : 7/6/2015 11:46 am : link
In comment 12357831 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Yankees fans want to see talent come up from the minors. We talk about suffering through the growing pains with the rookies.

Yet it is clear that we have a lot of talent which is working its way up through the system at a pretty good pace. And yet there seems to be little patience amongst the fans to settle for a poor outcome this season if necessary at the MLB level in order to continue to develop these young players.


Many would love to see them develop their own talent and would be ok with a poor overall season if it involved breaking in some of the young guys.

But they're often drowned out by the loud, impatient fans who claim to want to see the young guys, then b**** and moan about the Yanks ruining them when they start 3 for 20.
giants#1...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2015 11:53 am : link
you are correct - there are many who seem to get it and they are definitely drowned out by those who seem impatient to see the results from the farm now at the MLB level.

It could possibly be that the majority is the patient type, and the minority is just more vocal, but it definitely seems to be the revers.

Questions of self-reflection for Yankees fans - were you one who was against signing expensive vets on the downside of their careers this offseason? Did you argue that it was better to have a season or two of poor showings at the MLB level if it meant bringing up a core of young talent?

Are you now a fan who can't seem to understand why the Yankees are not bringing up that young talent? Are you upset that we might lose our first place standing? Are you frustrated that we might miss the playoffs again, while we watch crappy MLB level talent play and the youngsters aren't brought up?
I don't think it was totally clear what talent was available  
BeerFridge : 7/6/2015 12:00 pm : link
and ready to play in the minors. Lots of kids have made appearances this year. Flores, Heathcott, Williams, Pirela, Lindgren, Jose Ramirez. I'm not sure what players are stuck in AAA, I guess you mean Refsnyder? He'll probably get his chance this year.
BeerFridge...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2015 1:06 pm : link
I mean generally speaking - there are no end to the comments of how the Yankees should be promoting one kid or another to the major league squad as the people we have here now are costing us games.

We seem not to recognize that these kids are being moved along quite quickly already.

We seem so frustrated at times with Headley and Drew, for example, and we question why guys on the farm haven't been called up already. We ask ourselves why these guys continue to get at bats, appearing to notice the obvious (that they are likely costing us a real chance at a pennant). We do this in spite of our desire in the offseason to NOT commit long-term to real vets, to instead suffer through some rebuilding seasons to bring up a core of talent.

This is the suffering part. Deal with it, and take pride not in today's NY Yankees, but look forward to those we are developing on the farm. Just like every other team has to do when they are bringing up the talent we regularly lament we cannot develop on our own.
Yankee fans have miniscule attention spans...  
Dunedin81 : 7/6/2015 1:35 pm : link
rookie reliever comes in and gets shelled and they immediately call for his demotion. It's a tough place to struggle early.
same thing with Gregorius  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 1:46 pm : link
He's been slowly but surely improving at the plate as well as in the field.

Month to month:

April: .206/.261/.238
May: .232/.300/.341
June: .258/.293/.366
July: .357/.438/.429

If he can maintain his numbers around where they've been since the horrendous start he got off to in April, he's a decent SS. Not an all-star, but a solid starter given his above-average defense.
not a great game  
RasputinPrime : 7/6/2015 3:25 pm : link
but nothing to panic about.

We can fairly safely put the Didi firesale to bed. Let's just figure out a way to find someone to play 2B every day and get healthy. With the guys we have that aren't going anywhere, there isn't really alot of room to improve elsewhere. CC isn't going to the pen and Tanaka, Nova, Pineda and Eovaldi are going to be good one game, not so much the next.
I've not yet seen a legitimate argument why CC isn't going to the pen  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 3:40 pm : link
Contract? Who gives a shit? He's not even close to being one of the five best starting options. Mike Mussina was sent to the pen. Tim Lincecum was sent to the pen. Right now he's a mopup man at best.
RE: I've not yet seen a legitimate argument why CC isn't going to the pen  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/6/2015 3:45 pm : link
In comment 12358470 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Contract? Who gives a shit? He's not even close to being one of the five best starting options. Mike Mussina was sent to the pen. Tim Lincecum was sent to the pen. Right now he's a mopup man at best.


He's a great guy that we like and respect is their "legitimate" argument. It makes no sense to let him start games. You gotta pay him either way... why pay him to lose games?
Hell, at this point I'd rather see Bryan Mitchell in the rotation  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 3:53 pm : link
Thought he pitched well yesterday, although he didn't get any breaks. That late 4 run inning by Tampa was one of the weakest rallies you'll ever see. Infield single, error, blooper just inside the foul line, another infield single.
RE: RE: I've not yet seen a legitimate argument why CC isn't going to the pen  
Dunedin81 : 7/6/2015 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12358487 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 12358470 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Contract? Who gives a shit? He's not even close to being one of the five best starting options. Mike Mussina was sent to the pen. Tim Lincecum was sent to the pen. Right now he's a mopup man at best.



He's a great guy that we like and respect is their "legitimate" argument. It makes no sense to let him start games. You gotta pay him either way... why pay him to lose games?


They're hoping he figures it out, that's really all I've got. That and from May 1 on he's had two bad outings (in 12 starts), in the rest of the games we were at least competitive.
What about giving Cole Figueroa a chance?  
GiantJake : 7/6/2015 3:58 pm : link
This guy quietly has the third best batting average in the International League. He is riding a streak of 9 straight multi-hit games and is 21 for 41 (.512) over his last 10 games. The dude has paid his dues in the minors and deserves a shot. He's got a career .293 average in the minors and can play 3B, SS, 2B and even has a few games in LF/RF. He had a cup of coffee with the Rays last season. Perhaps before dealing away assets, the Yankees should give him a couple of weeks to see if they can catch lightning in a bottle. Biggest obstacle at this point is him being lefty and not on the 40 man roster. If the Yankees are worried about Refsnyder and Pirela's inexperience and defense, maybe they should find a way to give Figueroa a look-see.
it's a bit late for him to figure it out  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:38 pm : link
He's been terrible for three seasons now. I had hoped for a Mussina-style late career evolution into a finesse junkballer, but that's obviously not going to happen.
if we needed a long-man or a Loogy  
RasputinPrime : 7/6/2015 4:54 pm : link
maybe they'd be giving CC a shot in the pen. As it is, we don't need either. This is a franchise that trotted Jeter out at SS for about 5 years longer than many other franchises would have. CC is going to get the ball every 5 days this season.

The real problem is throwing Drew out there when he currently a -.5 WAR player for us. Refsnyder doesn't appear to be able to help us at that position in 2015 and i'd imagine sitting in first place on July 6th would inspire some desire to push for the playoffs.

Still, we ARE in first place and there is alot of games yet to play.
RE: if we needed a long-man or a Loogy  
RasputinPrime : 7/6/2015 4:56 pm : link
In comment 12358750 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
maybe they'd be giving CC a shot in the pen. As it is, we don't need either. This is a franchise that trotted Jeter out at SS for about 5 years longer than many other franchises would have. CC is going to get the ball every 5 days this season.

The real problem is throwing Drew out there when he currently a -.5 WAR player for us. Refsnyder doesn't appear to be able to help us at that position in 2015 and i'd imagine sitting in first place on July 6th would inspire some desire to push for the playoffs.

Still, we ARE in first place and there is alot of games yet to play.


Yes but Drew is not only one of the very worst offensive players at 2B this season but he has the worst range factor by a wide margin. He is pretty much a lump of coal.
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