Did Brady cliff dive into kiddie pool?. Did he fly his glider into power lines?
I agree that Brady's behavior was risky. I'd call it riskier even than enjoying some fireworks. But what isn't being factored into that comparison is that Brady pulled those things off fine, while JPP couldn't even pull off the fireworks without being lucky to still have ten fingers at the end of it.
JPP is a fool. Brady is not. That is an enormously important distinction to make.
If anything, they're both fools. The difference is one of them didn't get hurt engaging in their foolery. Think Belichick didn't have a talk with him once that story came out? And if JPP doesn't get hurt, nobody cares about this either.
Shockey was the model teammate and person. He never displayed any off field antics that made headlines or publicly bad-mouthed the team or got into a shouting match with his boss and got sent packing out of New York. Sure, he didn't injure himself or get suspended, but his immaturity put a dent in his production and wallet and character, in other ways.
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
If anything, they're both fools. The difference is one of them didn't get hurt engaging in their foolery. Think Belichick didn't have a talk with him once that story came out? And if JPP doesn't get hurt, nobody cares about this either.
I disagree in the sense that if a story came out that said, "JPP buys truck full of fireworks and plans to light them himself", plenty of people would've said "WTF?" Just because we hear about it afterwards or we don't hear about it at all because no one (thankfully) got hurt doesn't make his decision less stupid.
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Shockey reportedly consistently ran incorrect routes, leading to multiple Eli interceptions. Eli took a huge step once Shockey went down with inferior talents at TE. Eli has turned low-cost investments into incredibly productive players for the Giants, including Boss (left due to FA), Ballard (injuries), and Donnell.
Shockey is a great example of what Britt/Terps discussed early in the thread in ensuring your investing in guys with the right character.
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Would have continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense....if what? He hadn't been a douche? And while he was productive, he also made a slew of mistakes - some of them costly because he was an arrogant prick. Ask Eli Manning if he misses Jeremy Shockey. Given the choice between Shockey and some of the "misfits" like Boss, Ballard, or Bennett - I think he'd take the misfits any day. Both on the field and in the locker room.
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Would have continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense....if what? He hadn't been a douche? And while he was productive, he also made a slew of mistakes - some of them costly because he was an arrogant prick. Ask Eli Manning if he misses Jeremy Shockey. Given the choice between Shockey and some of the "misfits" like Boss, Ballard, or Bennett - I think he'd take the misfits any day. Both on the field and in the locker room.
Who's to say the slew of mistakes weren't on a young QB learning the nuisances of the NFL ... from what I also remember was a very shakey young rookie QB those first few years, you can not pin the mistakes solely on one player ... Anyway, everyone has missed my point, why even mention or draw comparison to Shockey when comparing him to JPP ... JPP is a moron, alienated a then 1st rd. rookie and has questionable commitment to his craft ...
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Shockey reportedly consistently ran incorrect routes, leading to multiple Eli interceptions. Eli took a huge step once Shockey went down with inferior talents at TE. Eli has turned low-cost investments into incredibly productive players for the Giants, including Boss (left due to FA), Ballard (injuries), and Donnell.
Shockey is a great example of what Britt/Terps discussed early in the thread in ensuring your investing in guys with the right character.
And this is really all I was saying when I mentioned Shockey.
Quote:
Shockey is a great example of what Britt/Terps discussed early in the thread in ensuring your investing in guys with the right character.
I think we all know the partying and drinking stories.
So, when you see that he's breaking down and injured as a 26-28 year old, you know he wasn't really committed.
Would the Giants have put up with the antics on the field as long as he rolled up his sleeves and acted like he wanted to be the best? They've done that for other players.
RE: Part of shockey's problem was that he didn't really prepare like a pro
I think we all know the partying and drinking stories.
So, when you see that he's breaking down and injured as a 26-28 year old, you know he wasn't really committed.
Would the Giants have put up with the antics on the field as long as he rolled up his sleeves and acted like he wanted to be the best? They've done that for other players.
he had issue with the newly appointed GM at the time, he was beloved by EA, but there was tension behind the scenes when Reese took over ... I do not think there as a Sunday where he was never the most fired up ready player on the field ... so stop with the preparation nonsense ...
I recall articles criticizing Shockey for not joining Eli's off-season workouts.
We also have this:
Quote:
Toomer said Shockey 'tried to take advantage' of Eli by pressuring him for the ball. He also said there was 'no question' Eli had improved his play after the distraction of Jeremy Shockey was gone from the locker room and from the huddle.
when there reports of properzi catching him partying the nite before. Fassel let him get away with absolute everything. Yet he claims he was treated like a zoo animal or something as a Giant to perform on the spot. Yeah, sounds like a guy who took his craft serious.
I usually hate to get involved in any Shockey talk because I'm
obviously biased and I think BBI has a tendency to form group think about certain players/coaches to which no stats/facts can penetrate those beliefs.
- Eli has led the league in INTs 3 times, twice after Shockey played his last game in Blue. Heck, Shockey didn't even play all of the games the one year Eli led the league in picks while he was still on the team. Enough with the Shockey route running as the source of Eli's picks nonsense. Eli throws a lot of picks. I love the guy, but he throws picks regardless of the receivers, offense, stadium, or opponent. You guys watched the San Francisco game last year, right? You would've thought Eli took a shit at midfield with the amount of complaining on BBI after the pick in Seattle last season.
- Shockey's problem wasn't off the field issues... he simply got hurt and wasn't the same physically. It happens to physical players and especially at that position. Kevin Boss' career was short. Jake Ballard's career was a shooting star. Whether players are angels off the field or not, they get hurt in this game. There are a thousand examples of guys who don't drink and party who get hurt all the damn time. It's just happens in this sport.
- Let's not compare JPP and Shockey, either as players or connect them somehow because of this incident. I like JPP, but he hasn't come close to matching his 2011 performance. Shockey was 1st team All-Pro as a rookie and was leading NFL TEs in catches (2nd in yards) at the time of his season-ending injury the next year. He ended up making 3 more Pro Bowls after his rookie season.
- Using Amani Toomer as evidence Shockey is a bad guy or selfish? The same Amani Toomer who accused the Giants coaching staff of "freezing him out" at the end of his career?
"No, because you know what? No matter what, they've got an agenda," Toomer said. "I could talk until I'm blue in the face, it's not going to make any difference. And you know from dealing with the head coach that's not how he is. You could talk to him, but if he has something in his mind that's what's going to go on."
So if we're only concerned with outcomes, and not risks, then if JPP is fine, we're good then right?
The outcome here was that JPP let an explosive donate in his hand, and he likely did this a few feet away from children and a van full of more explosives. If that's an outcome with which you want to associate yourself, good for you.
You're dismissing a lot of evidence to defend your boy.
I never said Jeremy was perfect. He acted like a jackass to force himself out of town. It's entirely possible he could've extended his career with better habits off the field. However, it's entirely possible he could've lived like a nun and still had the same physical issues... it happens all the time in this sport. No one ever questioned Mark Bavaro's work ethic and his career was almost the exact same length as Shockey's (and Mark missed more games).
what kind of firework was it? If it was a blockbuster, then he is in
big trouble because the explosion and extreme heat can splinter off pieces of the fingers and Nerve damage happens up through the wrist. This happened to my cousin years ago.
Is the Frachise tender with the league office? Or is there a contract that is in the hands of his agent that has to be signed and sent to the Giants for signature? Anyone know?
see this link, it sounds unlikely, otherwise I believe the process is simple they'd just rescind the offer , but it doesn't sound like that is going to happen
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Insider Buzz: Giants 'Not Likely' to Rescind Jason Pierre-Paul's Franchise Tag
Those of you saying fireworks are OK or safe because you do them is silly, anyone who thinks it is safe to do them drunk is a moron, stop posting. My family counts on me to support them. I care about them too much to risk injury for a boom or a flash of lights. There a many fun things that I choose not to do because I am a responsible adult. A football player in the middle of the biggest contract negotiation of life choosing to light off fireworks is a person who does think things through, I question his judgment. He just lost millions doing this, some people say he still may lose his hand. He is still in the hospital, I am in the medical industry, you do not usually keep people in the hospital for non serious injuries.
Fireworks in the handle of the public are too dangerous, I live in WA state and multiple fires near me were caused do to fireworks.
Scroll through some those photos, imagine your house fire because you live near a moron. think about those firefighter being in danger because loud noises and pretty lights are fun. Leave fireworks in the hands of professionals. The ones you buy are cheaply made and prone to catastrophic failures. If you keep setting them off eventually you will hurt yourself or someone you care about, for what?
As much as I'd like to pile on I enjoy lighting off some fireworks July 4th. In my defense, here in MD ground based sparklers are legal, so I'm not messing with any mortar type stuff. I'm guessing from shots of the Uhaul he had that he was playing with the illegal kinda stuff that only people with permits are allowed to buy.
he wouldn't be losing $15 million if it happened he'd be making a fortune to the highest bidder in that scenario.
This is one of those things that has a small chance of working out well for the player, as ass-backwards as that would be.
JPP probably lost all his leverage in refusing to sign tender and getting a long-term deal. This hurts JPP unless he plays on tender and plays really well next season. After July 15, his options are to play on tender or sit out. You think the Giants are going to resign him to a long term deal now. Whatever the situation, the Giants would want him this year, unless he is definitely out for the year. They already allocAted the money. so, unless JPP would miss a significant part of the season, the Giants will keep the tender and not negotiate a long term deal with him before the 15th. If they rescind it because he can't play, well then, who is going to give him big money at this point. So, he will lose the franchise money of 15 mill this year. This is not good for JPP
I agree that Brady's behavior was risky. I'd call it riskier even than enjoying some fireworks. But what isn't being factored into that comparison is that Brady pulled those things off fine, while JPP couldn't even pull off the fireworks without being lucky to still have ten fingers at the end of it.
JPP is a fool. Brady is not. That is an enormously important distinction to make.
If anything, they're both fools. The difference is one of them didn't get hurt engaging in their foolery. Think Belichick didn't have a talk with him once that story came out? And if JPP doesn't get hurt, nobody cares about this either.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
If anything, they're both fools. The difference is one of them didn't get hurt engaging in their foolery. Think Belichick didn't have a talk with him once that story came out? And if JPP doesn't get hurt, nobody cares about this either.
I disagree in the sense that if a story came out that said, "JPP buys truck full of fireworks and plans to light them himself", plenty of people would've said "WTF?" Just because we hear about it afterwards or we don't hear about it at all because no one (thankfully) got hurt doesn't make his decision less stupid.
Quote:
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Shockey reportedly consistently ran incorrect routes, leading to multiple Eli interceptions. Eli took a huge step once Shockey went down with inferior talents at TE. Eli has turned low-cost investments into incredibly productive players for the Giants, including Boss (left due to FA), Ballard (injuries), and Donnell.
Shockey is a great example of what Britt/Terps discussed early in the thread in ensuring your investing in guys with the right character.
Quote:
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Would have continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense....if what? He hadn't been a douche? And while he was productive, he also made a slew of mistakes - some of them costly because he was an arrogant prick. Ask Eli Manning if he misses Jeremy Shockey. Given the choice between Shockey and some of the "misfits" like Boss, Ballard, or Bennett - I think he'd take the misfits any day. Both on the field and in the locker room.
Quote:
In comment 12357620 Mason said:
Quote:
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Would have continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense....if what? He hadn't been a douche? And while he was productive, he also made a slew of mistakes - some of them costly because he was an arrogant prick. Ask Eli Manning if he misses Jeremy Shockey. Given the choice between Shockey and some of the "misfits" like Boss, Ballard, or Bennett - I think he'd take the misfits any day. Both on the field and in the locker room.
Who's to say the slew of mistakes weren't on a young QB learning the nuisances of the NFL ... from what I also remember was a very shakey young rookie QB those first few years, you can not pin the mistakes solely on one player ... Anyway, everyone has missed my point, why even mention or draw comparison to Shockey when comparing him to JPP ... JPP is a moron, alienated a then 1st rd. rookie and has questionable commitment to his craft ...
Quote:
In comment 12357620 Mason said:
Quote:
And his off the field crap did cost the team on the field production. He wasn't that committed to his craft which explains why his career or lack of it has progressed to this point. And Parcells absolutely called it.
he was pretty productive during his tenure here as a Giant, leading multiple seasons in receiving/receptions ... he probably would of still continued to be very productive and key weapon in this offense ... funny how TE has been a revolving door of misfits since his departure
Shockey reportedly consistently ran incorrect routes, leading to multiple Eli interceptions. Eli took a huge step once Shockey went down with inferior talents at TE. Eli has turned low-cost investments into incredibly productive players for the Giants, including Boss (left due to FA), Ballard (injuries), and Donnell.
Shockey is a great example of what Britt/Terps discussed early in the thread in ensuring your investing in guys with the right character.
And this is really all I was saying when I mentioned Shockey.
I just suck at English.
I used to really like Shockey. I can relate to being extremely good-looking and talented.
So, when you see that he's breaking down and injured as a 26-28 year old, you know he wasn't really committed.
Would the Giants have put up with the antics on the field as long as he rolled up his sleeves and acted like he wanted to be the best? They've done that for other players.
So, when you see that he's breaking down and injured as a 26-28 year old, you know he wasn't really committed.
Would the Giants have put up with the antics on the field as long as he rolled up his sleeves and acted like he wanted to be the best? They've done that for other players.
he had issue with the newly appointed GM at the time, he was beloved by EA, but there was tension behind the scenes when Reese took over ... I do not think there as a Sunday where he was never the most fired up ready player on the field ... so stop with the preparation nonsense ...
And let's not act like having a BAC of 1.0 most days of the week is proper. Taking care of your body is part of the job.
We also have this:
Evidence points to Shockey being a shitty teammate.
Bleacher Report - ( New Window )
- Eli has led the league in INTs 3 times, twice after Shockey played his last game in Blue. Heck, Shockey didn't even play all of the games the one year Eli led the league in picks while he was still on the team. Enough with the Shockey route running as the source of Eli's picks nonsense. Eli throws a lot of picks. I love the guy, but he throws picks regardless of the receivers, offense, stadium, or opponent. You guys watched the San Francisco game last year, right? You would've thought Eli took a shit at midfield with the amount of complaining on BBI after the pick in Seattle last season.
- Shockey's problem wasn't off the field issues... he simply got hurt and wasn't the same physically. It happens to physical players and especially at that position. Kevin Boss' career was short. Jake Ballard's career was a shooting star. Whether players are angels off the field or not, they get hurt in this game. There are a thousand examples of guys who don't drink and party who get hurt all the damn time. It's just happens in this sport.
- Let's not compare JPP and Shockey, either as players or connect them somehow because of this incident. I like JPP, but he hasn't come close to matching his 2011 performance. Shockey was 1st team All-Pro as a rookie and was leading NFL TEs in catches (2nd in yards) at the time of his season-ending injury the next year. He ended up making 3 more Pro Bowls after his rookie season.
- Using Amani Toomer as evidence Shockey is a bad guy or selfish? The same Amani Toomer who accused the Giants coaching staff of "freezing him out" at the end of his career?
"No, because you know what? No matter what, they've got an agenda," Toomer said. "I could talk until I'm blue in the face, it's not going to make any difference. And you know from dealing with the head coach that's not how he is. You could talk to him, but if he has something in his mind that's what's going to go on."
and
"Fact that JPP remains in hospital 36 hrs or so after accident tells you damage not minor #Giants"
Toomer wasn't the only person who criticized Shockey's attitude.
You're dismissing a lot of evidence to defend your boy.
The outcome here was that JPP let an explosive donate in his hand, and he likely did this a few feet away from children and a van full of more explosives. If that's an outcome with which you want to associate yourself, good for you.
If only he were as smart as you, Rich.
You're dismissing a lot of evidence to defend your boy.
I never said Jeremy was perfect. He acted like a jackass to force himself out of town. It's entirely possible he could've extended his career with better habits off the field. However, it's entirely possible he could've lived like a nun and still had the same physical issues... it happens all the time in this sport. No one ever questioned Mark Bavaro's work ethic and his career was almost the exact same length as Shockey's (and Mark missed more games).
Is the Frachise tender with the league office? Or is there a contract that is in the hands of his agent that has to be signed and sent to the Giants for signature? Anyone know?
Link - ( New Window )
This is one of those things that has a small chance of working out well for the player, as ass-backwards as that would be.
This is one of those things that has a small chance of working out well for the player, as ass-backwards as that would be.
Not so sure teams are going to be lining up to pay guaranteed millions to a guy who nearly blew his hand off with fireworks.
Quote:
he wouldn't be losing $15 million if it happened he'd be making a fortune to the highest bidder in that scenario.
This is one of those things that has a small chance of working out well for the player, as ass-backwards as that would be.
Not so sure teams are going to be lining up to pay guaranteed millions to a guy who nearly blew his hand off with fireworks.
Fireworks in the handle of the public are too dangerous, I live in WA state and multiple fires near me were caused do to fireworks.
http://www.kirotv.com/gallery/news/photos-small-fires-occur-throughout-washington-jul/gCThC/#7575618
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/fire/statistics.htm
Scroll through some those photos, imagine your house fire because you live near a moron. think about those firefighter being in danger because loud noises and pretty lights are fun. Leave fireworks in the hands of professionals. The ones you buy are cheaply made and prone to catastrophic failures. If you keep setting them off eventually you will hurt yourself or someone you care about, for what?
This is one of those things that has a small chance of working out well for the player, as ass-backwards as that would be.
JPP probably lost all his leverage in refusing to sign tender and getting a long-term deal. This hurts JPP unless he plays on tender and plays really well next season. After July 15, his options are to play on tender or sit out. You think the Giants are going to resign him to a long term deal now. Whatever the situation, the Giants would want him this year, unless he is definitely out for the year. They already allocAted the money. so, unless JPP would miss a significant part of the season, the Giants will keep the tender and not negotiate a long term deal with him before the 15th. If they rescind it because he can't play, well then, who is going to give him big money at this point. So, he will lose the franchise money of 15 mill this year. This is not good for JPP
and
"Fact that JPP remains in hospital 36 hrs or so after accident tells you damage not minor #Giants"
Or he has GREAT insurance.
#analogiesftw
Well, this was fun.
do you mean rescind the franchise tag? I believe that's still a possibility once they learn the extent of the injury.
hard to see paying $15M for a player who won't be able to be 100% (if that's the case), a lot riding on this medical eval