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NFT: Knicks Chat: Knicks to workout Daniel Hackett

DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 8:03 am
Italian PG who played at USC (Not much of a 3 point shooter so unsure of the fit... 25% this season at Milano)

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Daniel-Hackett-1384/


Begley
This isnt to say that Jacksons offseason has been a failure so far. By and large, he landed quality players (Robin Lopez, Arron Afflalo, Kyle OQuinn) on reasonable contracts who should help the team take a step forward from the 17-win disaster during the 2014-15 season.

But if anything can be gleaned after the first few days of free agency, its this: The lure of playing in New York -- or in any other big market -- is no longer enough to attract elite talent, so Jackson now needs to build a team that can.

Thats the one way he can hope to sell free agents in the summer of 2016 or 2017.

Other factors that used to give big markets like New York an advantage in free agency no longer exist.



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RE: Am I insane for probably being disappointed  
Deej : 7/6/2015 3:58 pm : link
In comment 12358495 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
if you told me he was going to be Kevin Love?


Probably. But I get your point -- it is difficult to get over his defense. And he's not an ideal fit here, since (1) we already have a defensively challenged star forward, and (2) we dont have those great run/jump/finish wings who would flourish with his outlet passing.
Contracts  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 3:59 pm : link
aside, Kevin Love goes #1 overall in this draft if somehow he were available.
Kevin Love and Melo are comparable players  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 4:00 pm : link
.
RE: Kevin Love and Melo are comparable players  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 4:02 pm : link
In comment 12358532 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
.


Granted, but I think Kevin Love is just boring as hell. At least Melo's highs are fun to watch. Kevin Love is dry toast.
question for the masses!  
Enzo : 7/6/2015 4:21 pm : link
Let's assume you surround prime/peak Melo and Love with similar supporting casts (e.g. rim protecting center, 3 and D wings, all-star PG, deep bench, etc.). Who wins more?
RE: question for the masses!  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 4:24 pm : link
In comment 12358606 Enzo said:
Quote:
Let's assume you surround prime/peak Melo and Love with similar supporting casts (e.g. rim protecting center, 3 and D wings, all-star PG, deep bench, etc.). Who wins more?


Pretty similar outcome if you ask me.
In his upside version...  
manh george : 7/6/2015 4:24 pm : link
KP is going to be a bear to defend. I expect he stays more agile than Nowitski, and 4s are going to hate following out to 3 range where he could be quick enough to go around them. And in the midrange, he will be impossible to defend just by being so tall.

KP even close to his upside is going to make Melo's life a lot easier. 4's will be in no position to help out.

The intriguing part about getting RoLo plus O'Quinn for pretty much the same price as Monroe is that they both could become good partners for JP, in differing situations.
I would image that KP's length alone will make him a better defender  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:28 pm : link
than Love. He's a better athlete than Love, too. Not saying he'll be a plus defender but when the comparison is Love it's a low bar to clear.
RE: In his upside version...  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 4:29 pm : link
In comment 12358618 manh george said:
Quote:
KP is going to be a bear to defend. I expect he stays more agile than Nowitski, and 4s are going to hate following out to 3 range where he could be quick enough to go around them. And in the midrange, he will be impossible to defend just by being so tall.

KP even close to his upside is going to make Melo's life a lot easier. 4's will be in no position to help out.

The intriguing part about getting RoLo plus O'Quinn for pretty much the same price as Monroe is that they both could become good partners for JP, in differing situations.


I think you are underrating how agile Dirk was at the same age.
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David West to the Spurs for the minimum  
Enzo : 7/6/2015 4:33 pm : link
If he's ring chasing at this point, why not go to Cleveland for the same money and a MUCH easier path to the finals?
Any  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 4:33 pm : link
thoughts on this kid? Apparently a bunch of teams are in on him
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Derrick Williams is worth a risk  
Vanzetti : 7/6/2015 4:34 pm : link
The guy was predicted to be a top talent. He probably never will be. But he is still very young and it is not out of the realm of possibility that he blossoms.
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 4:36 pm : link
NBA New York Knicks ‏@nyknicks 22s23 seconds ago
.@LangGalloway10 to http://Knicks.com on @kporzee: "Just watching him in the gym today working out, hes looking real good."
maybe he puts his trust in Pop rather than Dave Blatt  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:36 pm : link
.
RE: David West to the Spurs for the minimum  
Vanzetti : 7/6/2015 4:37 pm : link
In comment 12358659 Enzo said:
Quote:
If he's ring chasing at this point, why not go to Cleveland for the same money and a MUCH easier path to the finals?


I think the Spurs will be picked by alot of people to win it all next season. Plus, Tim Duncan is truly one of the class acts in sports these days. I can see wanting to play on that teat team.
RE: David West to the Spurs for the minimum  
Deej : 7/6/2015 4:38 pm : link
In comment 12358659 Enzo said:
Quote:
If he's ring chasing at this point, why not go to Cleveland for the same money and a MUCH easier path to the finals?


Cant wait 'til LMA refuses to go into the game to play center with West at the 4. Amiright?
Barton  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 4:39 pm : link
sounds very intriguing and we have minutes to give at the 2

" February 19th, 2015 the Portland Trail Blazers traded away a 2016 first-round pick, Will Barton, Thomas Robinson, and Victor Claver to acquire Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee from the Denver Nuggets. Blazers fans may end up ruing the first-rounder more than any other asset, but of all the live bodies traded away, Barton currently causes the most remorse. Though his numbers in Portland were mediocre--10.8 points per 36 minutes, 3.0 points per game on 38% shooting from the field, 22% from the arc--the "People's Champ" had plenty of support due to his high-flying, devil-may-care approach to the game.

Barton's approach took wing in Denver where he found more playing time and a more permissive offense, both hallmarks of a team searching for identity. His shooting percentage skyrocketed to 44%; his three-point average rose to 28%. He posted a career-high 16.2 points per 36, 11.0 points per game. Barton has registered a half dozen 20-point games in his 3-year career. 3 of those came in the last 3 months. His advent was dramatic.

Barton's game hasn't changed much, nor has Portland's offense. He wouldn't have put up those numbers in a Trail Blazers uniform. But Portland's roster will be in flux this summer. Their future contains plenty of question marks. Offense in 2016 may bear little resemblance to the 2013-2015 vintages."
draft.net  
DanMetroMan : 7/6/2015 4:41 pm : link
NBA Comparison: Doug West
Strengths: Wiry thin swingman at 66 with tremendous length ... Production increased exponentially from freshman to sophomore campaigns ... Versatile and creative scorer without a distinct offensive pattern (18 PPG). Lethal in the mid-range shooting off the dribble ... Quick trigger. Effortless range from downtown, strong wrists ... Consistency from deep on the incline (35%) from standstill and utilizing screens ... High percentage of drives/slashes to the basket result in a floater or short jumper, both of which he is adept at converting ... Soft touch gives the ball a chance when hitting the rim, gets many friendly rolls ... Look no further than his 51% field goals to assess advancements in shot selection ... Overall decision making has been cultivated in a short time frame ... Plays with a newfound patience- probing the defense and seeking out a high-quality look for himself or a teammate ... Herky jerky off the dribble repertoire, hesitation dribble suits his style ... Possesses a quick first step and long, loping strides ... If he gets past you hes at the hoop in a hurry ... Able to squirt through small openings in the defense while remaining on balance ... Excellent body control around the rim. Ability to suspend himself in air allows for sublime body contortions ... Creates unconventional angles due to exceptionally long arms. Above average athlete ... Excels in transition where he gobbles up ground and is a strong two-footed leaper ... Premiere rebounding guard in the country (8 RPG) that results in instant fast break opportunities, due to his ability to take the ball coast to coast ... Nose for the rock. Spent more time with the ball in his hands as a sophomore, showing glimpses of burgeoning passing skills and court vision (2.9 APG) ... Disruptive weapon defensively (1.4 SPG & 0.7 BPG). Can guard positions 1-3 with his length and fluid lateral movements ... A great kid, charismatic individual with an infectious personality ...

Weaknesses: Must get stronger. Classification as thin is an understatement. Body type doesnt suggest he can add weight comfortably. Avoids contact and physical encounters at the rim- struggles to finish through a bump ... A slight bump when off balance can send him reeling ... Gets to the free throw line due to awkward style more so than consistent aggression (5 attempts per game) ... Lacks elite level explosiveness ... Despite improvements in shot selection and decision making (2.8 TO), momentary lapses of reason still invade his game ... Has a tendency to settle, particularly in physical matchups ... At times displays a lack of confidence in his handle, picking up his dribble unnecessarily when unable to beat his defender ... Off the dribble variety is not a staple. His natural feel for putting the ball in the hoop is absent in the remainder of his offensive skill package ... While shooting range is not in question, consistency is ... Doesnt use his base or get much elevation on his jumper ... Adjustment to complimentary part status will be integral, playing off the ball and not dominating it. Does he have the strength to guard opposing 2s and 3s in the league? Likely to be bullied by power guards and wings ... Its difficult to define how his skill sets translate to the next level, as Barton is a unique player without a clear-cut role ... He's also a year old for his grade, born January 1991, so that must be taken into account when guaging his potential ...
Doug West?  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:42 pm : link
Digging deep for that comparison
Why the Spurs  
Deej : 7/6/2015 4:42 pm : link
They have more of a need at a pure 4 backup. Duncan will rest a ton, and Aldridge can play the 5 if he agrees. By contrast, the Cavs already have Love as pure 4 play, plus Thompson who was forced to play a lot of 5 last year (80% @ C) but is really a PF and will probably play there less with Mosgov in tow. He's not a great fit on the Cavs.
RE: David West to the Spurs for the minimum  
giants#1 : 7/6/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12358659 Enzo said:
Quote:
If he's ring chasing at this point, why not go to Cleveland for the same money and a MUCH easier path to the finals?


Cavs clearly have the easier road to "get" to the finals, but I'm not sure (with or without West) they can beat any of the top 4-5 West teams in the finals (GS, SA, Hou, LAC, OKC).

A Pop coached team built around Leonard/LMA with Duncan/Parker/Green as "role" players has to be the pre-season favorite.
RE: maybe he puts his trust in Pop rather than Dave Blatt  
Enzo : 7/6/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12358674 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.

Pop's been around 19 years and only reached the finals 6 times. Blatt is batting a thousand! ha...
It actually seems like he's been to the finals more than 6 times  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:44 pm : link
.
Spurs are starting to remind me of another Super Team  
Deej : 7/6/2015 4:45 pm : link
where players took less to band together for a title
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RE: Why the Spurs  
giants#1 : 7/6/2015 4:46 pm : link
In comment 12358701 Deej said:
Quote:
They have more of a need at a pure 4 backup. Duncan will rest a ton, and Aldridge can play the 5 if he agrees. By contrast, the Cavs already have Love as pure 4 play, plus Thompson who was forced to play a lot of 5 last year (80% @ C) but is really a PF and will probably play there less with Mosgov in tow. He's not a great fit on the Cavs.


Cavs have Varejao as well. If LMA doesn't want to guard 5's, they'll just put West there.
Ex-Nets asst. GM likes what the Knicks accomplished.  
manh george : 7/6/2015 4:46 pm : link
I like all four players that the Knicks got, former Nets assistant general manager Bobby Marks told SNY.tv on the 4 Quarters Podcast Monday afternoon. They went with kind of hitting singles instead of going for a home run. I think theyve done well, its a start.
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Heh, that's a good analogy if home runs can choose not to be hit.  
BeerFridge : 7/6/2015 4:53 pm : link
I thought they navigated the market as well as could be expected.
maybe  
Steve in Greenwich : 7/6/2015 4:54 pm : link
its just a Knicks spin, but Alan Hahn just posted a very insightful recap of free agency to date
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mg, I think that's a fair analogy  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:55 pm : link
It was hardly a perfect offseason, but I'm glad that they were willing to hit some singles instead of making some desperation moves.
Alternate metaphor: SA as the Red Queen...  
manh george : 7/6/2015 4:59 pm : link
vs. The Knicks as Alice.

And the fans are yelling, "off with his head."
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There are 3 summer leagues now and the Knicks are only in  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/6/2015 5:07 pm : link
1 of them?
Here's the thing about missing on the big UFAs  
Deej : 7/6/2015 5:11 pm : link
Aldridge: will sign in his child's home town, and his own home state.
Jordan: will sign in his home state. Borderline in the top group.

Everyone else was a resign (LeBron (home town), Gasol (home town), Love, Duncan, Wade, Dragic, Lopez, Milsap) or an RFA, and with the exception of Milsap each were basically assumed resigns.

Moreover, the guys who switched teams sign on with guys who are as big a star as Melo. Monroe is the only odd bird, and you kind of get what he's doing -- surrounding himself with plus defenders who will make him look better. Monroe is not in the class of Aldridge or even Jordan. He's much closer to Lopez although a different player.

You can say Phil and Melo failed, but it's really only a quarter of a story.
RE: Here's the thing about missing on the big UFAs  
Enzo : 7/6/2015 5:16 pm : link
In comment 12358788 Deej said:
Quote:
Aldridge: will sign in his child's home town, and his own home state.
Jordan: will sign in his home state. Borderline in the top group.

Everyone else was a resign (LeBron (home town), Gasol (home town), Love, Duncan, Wade, Dragic, Lopez, Milsap) or an RFA, and with the exception of Milsap each were basically assumed resigns.

Moreover, the guys who switched teams sign on with guys who are as big a star as Melo. Monroe is the only odd bird, and you kind of get what he's doing -- surrounding himself with plus defenders who will make him look better. Monroe is not in the class of Aldridge or even Jordan. He's much closer to Lopez although a different player.

You can say Phil and Melo failed, but it's really only a quarter of a story.

once it became clear Jordan wanted out of LA, that was the guy I thought they had an outside shot at getting based on our giant hole at center and maybe he might find the combination of Melo/Phil/getting out of the west attractive on some level. But yeah, he's a Texas guy and, more importantly, Dallas has proven that they can be a winner year after year. And they have a proven coach.
Of the guys who switched teams  
Deej : 7/6/2015 5:22 pm : link
Aldridge stands alone as a star. Jordan stands alone as a really nice piece. And then Lopez is in a group with Monroe, Ellis, Chandler, and maybe Carroll & Matthews. Lopez is not the most skilled of that group, and if Im starting a team from scratch he may not be my first choice. But Chandler is 32 while Lopez is just 26; I'd rather have Lopez's next 4 years, and in particular years 2-4 which are most important. Carroll and Matthews are 3-and-D guys, and Im not super convinced that you should pay full price for that especially when a guy is switching teams. Monroe may be a skilled guy who doesnt win because of his defense. Ellis may be the most talented of the bunch, but he's a no-3 no-D 2 guard who would just not work with our personnel.

So we really didnt do that bad. We got a relatively good FA center. And I always advocated using the remaining money on a bunch of cheaper guys. Our depth was horrifying before July 1.
And if you analyze robin lopez  
hitdog42 : 7/6/2015 5:33 pm : link
In the same vain you did the others then what is he?
solid defender with no offensive moves?
You can't compare the best of one guy vs. the worst or average view of another.
To put Lopez in the group you are listing is making quite a few assumptions

He's was by no means in the second group of free agents - maybe the second group of centers- with Asik and players like that. There is a great chance he does well and outperforms but he needs to do that first
re: Monroe  
giants#1 : 7/6/2015 5:36 pm : link
Considering many of the defensive concerns that have been voiced pre/post FA with Melo + Porz in the frontcourt, it's easy to make a case for Lopez over Monroe.

But Monroe is also getting more than Lopez so it's more a question of: would you rather have Lopez + O'Quinn or Monroe for the next 4 years?

Ignoring the "fit", the answer to that question probably relies on what you think of KOQ's upside. Can he be a 12 and 10 guy like his per 36 numbers suggest? If so, Lopez+KOQ >> Monroe
what I like about all the new guys is they seem to want to be here.  
Del Shofner : 7/6/2015 5:58 pm : link
I think RoLo and KOQ are perfect fits for NY. The rookies want to be here it appears. So do AA and Williams.

I'm sick of hearing about the guys who don't want to be here - it's fine, I get that, lots of reasons why you wouldn't.

The team is going to have a very different personality this year I think, and for the better.
hitdog  
Deej : 7/6/2015 6:05 pm : link
fair question. Descriptively Lopez is a plus defender with some rim protection. Just a good rebounder. Offensively not inept, but plays a limited game. Soft touch around the rim, and hits the FGs and FTs he does take. Looking at Deej's 3rd tier of FAs by Age, and last season PER & WS/48:

Lopez: 27, 16.2+, .150+
Chandler: 32, 20.1-, .216-
Monroe: 25, 21.2-, .153-
Ellis: 29, 16.5, .065+
Carroll: 28, 15.9-, .154-
Matthews: 28, 16.1-, .147 (major injury)

+ means stat was materially higher in 2013-14, while - means it was lower (to suggest whether we're looking at peak values).

So to me Lopez and Monroe stand out because I want guys who will be in their prime in 2016-17 and beyond. Chandler has been the best of the bunch but for the last NY season, but he's also 32 and has missed games 20+ games in 2 of 4 seasons and 7 last year. The group is mostly a pickum' (which makes sense because I grouped them). I think that a guy like Lopez get bonus points for just fitting in better than someone like Monroe, who cant defend and has to be your low post guy. I wanted Monroe but I can understand why we seem to have a preference for Lopez -- it's not crazy.
the Spurs are a great team  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 6:06 pm : link
but I think their ball-handler situation is going to come back and bite them. Their 3 best playmakers last year were Tony Parker, Manu, and Cory Joseph. Joseph left for greener pastures so now the Spurs are going to be relying on Manu and Parker to do a ton.

Long story short, I think Tony Parker is pretty much done being an impact player in the league and he's going to cost the Spurs a championship next year. I think they'd probably beat the Warriors but if Durant is healthy, I think OKC led by a Westbrook rampage (Kawhi forced to guard Durant) will be too much for the Spurs.

I think the Cavs could push 70 wins next year if LeBron/Love/Kyrie play a combined 220 games, especially if they add JJ. Still extremely early in the process but that team figures to be an absolute monster.
In a vacuum  
kash94 : 7/6/2015 6:18 pm : link
Monroe is a better player IMO and some of those defensive issues are a bit overstated. If he matches up against centers he can be adequate. Also a good passer at age 24-25 and coming off a very strong 2nd half to last year, he'll definitely be very good.

However, considering the Knicks needs, Lopez is probably a better fit. It's just a big easier to build around Lopez because 1- he's owed slightly less money 2- a solid defensive center will fit in almost any basketball team regardless of system, supporting cast, etc.

Monroe needed a particular set of players around him for it to work IMO (i.e a shot blocking co-big man who can space the floor and solid defenders at other positions).

A Porz-Lopez frontcourt on paper sounds more compatible than a Porz-Monroe one (assuming Porz's strengths and weaknesses are as advertised).

--

I still would have maybe gone with a Mudiay + big man in the draft and sign Monroe and Aflalo (to give us a Mudiay, Aflalo, Melo, Monroe, Big man at 19) lineup but this will do as well and probably has more potential.
RE: the Spurs are a great team  
kash94 : 7/6/2015 6:20 pm : link
In comment 12358871 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
but I think their ball-handler situation is going to come back and bite them. Their 3 best playmakers last year were Tony Parker, Manu, and Cory Joseph. Joseph left for greener pastures so now the Spurs are going to be relying on Manu and Parker to do a ton.

Long story short, I think Tony Parker is pretty much done being an impact player in the league and he's going to cost the Spurs a championship next year. I think they'd probably beat the Warriors but if Durant is healthy, I think OKC led by a Westbrook rampage (Kawhi forced to guard Durant) will be too much for the Spurs.

I think the Cavs could push 70 wins next year if LeBron/Love/Kyrie play a combined 220 games, especially if they add JJ. Still extremely early in the process but that team figures to be an absolute monster.


Not sure why they rescinded the offer for Joseph - was it purely because of tax reasons or can they not afford to resign Duncan and Ginobli without doing so?
Porz + Grant  
Deej : 7/6/2015 6:22 pm : link
is probably better than Mudiay plus the next big man off the board at 19. Though Portis was still available.
I'm pretty happy  
arniefez : 7/6/2015 6:31 pm : link
With the direction Phil was forced into. He didn't plan on winning only 17 and he didn't plan on losing the lottery and free agency. So he drafted the highest ceiling guy left and brought in high character guys who will play defense to put around Anthony since he's a questionable character and has had no interest in playing defense. If it doesn't work he can try to dump Anthony after next year or let Isiah take over. If it does work and they win in the 30's maybe some better players will be attainable. It would be helpful if he had a competent coach. Fisher was not last year. But if the effort level goes up and the Knicks play high effort defense it will be worth watching some of the games
no idea why some people are complaining  
idiotsavant : 7/6/2015 7:58 pm : link
you got a point guard, grant.

The rebounder on O = lopez, which was sorely missing last year, and being a type that might mesh with the triangle, and Phil World, even better, the offensive rebounder becoming like a point guard in reverse in that moment?

and an upside player, porzingas.

much better team.
Shved is being considered for the remaining cap money....  
manh george : 7/7/2015 12:51 am : link
but supposedly has competition. I can't see why. He is a tall combo guard who played well down the stretch, and might get better with team stability and consistent minutes.

Smith apparently has bigger offers, according to the article.

Also, Zinger may pass up the Summer League to let his hip heal. That would be disappointing, but his conditioning and strength need to be built progressively over the course of the season, along with his PT. If he were to re-injure the hip, the loss of training time would be a problem.
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NY Times had an amazing piece on the triangle recently  
idiotsavant : 7/7/2015 11:04 am : link
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/sports/basketball/phil-jackson-knicks-triangle-offense-nba.html?_r=0
short excerpt  
idiotsavant : 7/7/2015 11:06 am : link
''I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics, Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.

That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
''

So- Lopez detractors may be missing the point.
in other words, on the offensive side  
idiotsavant : 7/7/2015 11:17 am : link
if the first shot goes in, then nevermind, however, if not, the first thing you need will obviously, in all offenses, would be that offensive rebound and then a pass, in this offense, so your center becomes the point guard in reverse, his scoring skills are less important.

and- what we saw last year (or what you saw, I went to one game a pal gave me as a gift and do not watch the game anymore typically, so just saw one game) was not really the triangle - yet...

on the D size, perhaps Porz gets to defend the post, that may mean less running for both big men (giving Lopez a better chance to get in position in paint on O quicker)
the triangle has become a comical point of discussion  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/7/2015 11:23 am : link
It kind of rips away the credibility of new york sports media when they flip out while also not knowing what they're talking about.

A common complaint has been that Phil doesn't want to be here very long (unsubstantiated rumor), so it makes no sense to collect players that suit the Triangle.

Who are all these players Phil signed that will be useless if they don't play the triangle? Name one. Porzingis isn't even a triangle big. Grant apparently kills it on the Pick and Roll and so does Lopez.

Nobody even understands what the triangle is. They make it seem like it's Alchemy. Kerr and Popovich use Triangle ideas in their offense. If you want to ridicule a guy with 11 rings, it makes you look like an ignorant asshole to use these types of arguments.
agreed  
idiotsavant : 7/7/2015 11:36 am : link
and the team will be better this year, and more fun to watch, hopefully that guy will give me more tix!
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