NFT: Knicks Chat: Knicks to workout Daniel Hackett

In comment 12358701 Deej said:

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They have more of a need at a pure 4 backup. Duncan will rest a ton, and Aldridge can play the 5 if he agrees. By contrast, the Cavs already have Love as pure 4 play, plus Thompson who was forced to play a lot of 5 last year (80% @ C) but is really a PF and will probably play there less with Mosgov in tow. He's not a great fit on the Cavs.

Cavs have Varejao as well. If LMA doesn't want to guard 5's, they'll just put West there.

“I like all four players that the Knicks got,” former Nets assistant general manager Bobby Marks told SNY.tv on the 4 Quarters Podcast Monday afternoon. “They went with kind of hitting singles instead of going for a home run. I think they’ve done well, it’s a start.
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I thought they navigated the market as well as could be expected.

its just a Knicks spin, but Alan Hahn just posted a very insightful recap of free agency to date
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It was hardly a perfect offseason, but I'm glad that they were willing to hit some singles instead of making some desperation moves.

vs. The Knicks as Alice.

And the fans are yelling, "off with his head."
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1 of them?

Aldridge: will sign in his child's home town, and his own home state.
Jordan: will sign in his home state. Borderline in the top group.

Everyone else was a resign (LeBron (home town), Gasol (home town), Love, Duncan, Wade, Dragic, Lopez, Milsap) or an RFA, and with the exception of Milsap each were basically assumed resigns.

Moreover, the guys who switched teams sign on with guys who are as big a star as Melo. Monroe is the only odd bird, and you kind of get what he's doing -- surrounding himself with plus defenders who will make him look better. Monroe is not in the class of Aldridge or even Jordan. He's much closer to Lopez although a different player.

You can say Phil and Melo failed, but it's really only a quarter of a story.

In comment 12358788 Deej said:

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Aldridge: will sign in his child's home town, and his own home state. Jordan: will sign in his home state. Borderline in the top group. Everyone else was a resign (LeBron (home town), Gasol (home town), Love, Duncan, Wade, Dragic, Lopez, Milsap) or an RFA, and with the exception of Milsap each were basically assumed resigns. Moreover, the guys who switched teams sign on with guys who are as big a star as Melo. Monroe is the only odd bird, and you kind of get what he's doing -- surrounding himself with plus defenders who will make him look better. Monroe is not in the class of Aldridge or even Jordan. He's much closer to Lopez although a different player. You can say Phil and Melo failed, but it's really only a quarter of a story.

once it became clear Jordan wanted out of LA, that was the guy I thought they had an outside shot at getting based on our giant hole at center and maybe he might find the combination of Melo/Phil/getting out of the west attractive on some level. But yeah, he's a Texas guy and, more importantly, Dallas has proven that they can be a winner year after year. And they have a proven coach.

Aldridge stands alone as a star. Jordan stands alone as a really nice piece. And then Lopez is in a group with Monroe, Ellis, Chandler, and maybe Carroll & Matthews. Lopez is not the most skilled of that group, and if Im starting a team from scratch he may not be my first choice. But Chandler is 32 while Lopez is just 26; I'd rather have Lopez's next 4 years, and in particular years 2-4 which are most important. Carroll and Matthews are 3-and-D guys, and Im not super convinced that you should pay full price for that especially when a guy is switching teams. Monroe may be a skilled guy who doesnt win because of his defense. Ellis may be the most talented of the bunch, but he's a no-3 no-D 2 guard who would just not work with our personnel.

So we really didnt do that bad. We got a relatively good FA center. And I always advocated using the remaining money on a bunch of cheaper guys. Our depth was horrifying before July 1.

In the same vain you did the others then what is he?
solid defender with no offensive moves?
You can't compare the best of one guy vs. the worst or average view of another.
To put Lopez in the group you are listing is making quite a few assumptions

He's was by no means in the second group of free agents - maybe the second group of centers- with Asik and players like that. There is a great chance he does well and outperforms but he needs to do that first

Considering many of the defensive concerns that have been voiced pre/post FA with Melo + Porz in the frontcourt, it's easy to make a case for Lopez over Monroe.

But Monroe is also getting more than Lopez so it's more a question of: would you rather have Lopez + O'Quinn or Monroe for the next 4 years?

Ignoring the "fit", the answer to that question probably relies on what you think of KOQ's upside. Can he be a 12 and 10 guy like his per 36 numbers suggest? If so, Lopez+KOQ >> Monroe

I think RoLo and KOQ are perfect fits for NY. The rookies want to be here it appears. So do AA and Williams.

I'm sick of hearing about the guys who don't want to be here - it's fine, I get that, lots of reasons why you wouldn't.

The team is going to have a very different personality this year I think, and for the better.

fair question. Descriptively Lopez is a plus defender with some rim protection. Just a good rebounder. Offensively not inept, but plays a limited game. Soft touch around the rim, and hits the FGs and FTs he does take. Looking at Deej's 3rd tier of FAs by Age, and last season PER & WS/48:

Lopez: 27, 16.2+, .150+
Chandler: 32, 20.1-, .216-
Monroe: 25, 21.2-, .153-
Ellis: 29, 16.5, .065+
Carroll: 28, 15.9-, .154-
Matthews: 28, 16.1-, .147 (major injury)

+ means stat was materially higher in 2013-14, while - means it was lower (to suggest whether we're looking at peak values).

So to me Lopez and Monroe stand out because I want guys who will be in their prime in 2016-17 and beyond. Chandler has been the best of the bunch but for the last NY season, but he's also 32 and has missed games 20+ games in 2 of 4 seasons and 7 last year. The group is mostly a pickum' (which makes sense because I grouped them). I think that a guy like Lopez get bonus points for just fitting in better than someone like Monroe, who cant defend and has to be your low post guy. I wanted Monroe but I can understand why we seem to have a preference for Lopez -- it's not crazy.

but I think their ball-handler situation is going to come back and bite them. Their 3 best playmakers last year were Tony Parker, Manu, and Cory Joseph. Joseph left for greener pastures so now the Spurs are going to be relying on Manu and Parker to do a ton.

Long story short, I think Tony Parker is pretty much done being an impact player in the league and he's going to cost the Spurs a championship next year. I think they'd probably beat the Warriors but if Durant is healthy, I think OKC led by a Westbrook rampage (Kawhi forced to guard Durant) will be too much for the Spurs.

I think the Cavs could push 70 wins next year if LeBron/Love/Kyrie play a combined 220 games, especially if they add JJ. Still extremely early in the process but that team figures to be an absolute monster.

Monroe is a better player IMO and some of those defensive issues are a bit overstated. If he matches up against centers he can be adequate. Also a good passer at age 24-25 and coming off a very strong 2nd half to last year, he'll definitely be very good.

However, considering the Knicks needs, Lopez is probably a better fit. It's just a big easier to build around Lopez because 1- he's owed slightly less money 2- a solid defensive center will fit in almost any basketball team regardless of system, supporting cast, etc.

Monroe needed a particular set of players around him for it to work IMO (i.e a shot blocking co-big man who can space the floor and solid defenders at other positions).

A Porz-Lopez frontcourt on paper sounds more compatible than a Porz-Monroe one (assuming Porz's strengths and weaknesses are as advertised).

--

I still would have maybe gone with a Mudiay + big man in the draft and sign Monroe and Aflalo (to give us a Mudiay, Aflalo, Melo, Monroe, Big man at 19) lineup but this will do as well and probably has more potential.

In comment 12358871 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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but I think their ball-handler situation is going to come back and bite them. Their 3 best playmakers last year were Tony Parker, Manu, and Cory Joseph. Joseph left for greener pastures so now the Spurs are going to be relying on Manu and Parker to do a ton. Long story short, I think Tony Parker is pretty much done being an impact player in the league and he's going to cost the Spurs a championship next year. I think they'd probably beat the Warriors but if Durant is healthy, I think OKC led by a Westbrook rampage (Kawhi forced to guard Durant) will be too much for the Spurs. I think the Cavs could push 70 wins next year if LeBron/Love/Kyrie play a combined 220 games, especially if they add JJ. Still extremely early in the process but that team figures to be an absolute monster.

Not sure why they rescinded the offer for Joseph - was it purely because of tax reasons or can they not afford to resign Duncan and Ginobli without doing so?

is probably better than Mudiay plus the next big man off the board at 19. Though Portis was still available.

With the direction Phil was forced into. He didn't plan on winning only 17 and he didn't plan on losing the lottery and free agency. So he drafted the highest ceiling guy left and brought in high character guys who will play defense to put around Anthony since he's a questionable character and has had no interest in playing defense. If it doesn't work he can try to dump Anthony after next year or let Isiah take over. If it does work and they win in the 30's maybe some better players will be attainable. It would be helpful if he had a competent coach. Fisher was not last year. But if the effort level goes up and the Knicks play high effort defense it will be worth watching some of the games

you got a point guard, grant.

The rebounder on O = lopez, which was sorely missing last year, and being a type that might mesh with the triangle, and Phil World, even better, the offensive rebounder becoming like a point guard in reverse in that moment?

and an upside player, porzingas.

much better team.

but supposedly has competition. I can't see why. He is a tall combo guard who played well down the stretch, and might get better with team stability and consistent minutes.

Smith apparently has bigger offers, according to the article.

Also, Zinger may pass up the Summer League to let his hip heal. That would be disappointing, but his conditioning and strength need to be built progressively over the course of the season, along with his PT. If he were to re-injure the hip, the loss of training time would be a problem.
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''“I took the best parts of the Boston Celtics,” Carril, who coached the Tigers from 1967 to 1996, said. “They moved the ball around, had good passers, good shooters, and the center who loved to pass the ball and built his game around helping four other guys succeed.”

That agrees with one of the major tenets of the triangle, which prefers the ball distribution to flow from the post rather than a guard out at the point. The triangle, similar to the Princeton offense, also asks for cuts along vectors plotted to maximize the use of floor space, stressing the defense with a relentless sequence of passes.
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So- Lopez detractors may be missing the point.

if the first shot goes in, then nevermind, however, if not, the first thing you need will obviously, in all offenses, would be that offensive rebound and then a pass, in this offense, so your center becomes the point guard in reverse, his scoring skills are less important.

and- what we saw last year (or what you saw, I went to one game a pal gave me as a gift and do not watch the game anymore typically, so just saw one game) was not really the triangle - yet...

on the D size, perhaps Porz gets to defend the post, that may mean less running for both big men (giving Lopez a better chance to get in position in paint on O quicker)

It kind of rips away the credibility of new york sports media when they flip out while also not knowing what they're talking about.

A common complaint has been that Phil doesn't want to be here very long (unsubstantiated rumor), so it makes no sense to collect players that suit the Triangle.

Who are all these players Phil signed that will be useless if they don't play the triangle? Name one. Porzingis isn't even a triangle big. Grant apparently kills it on the Pick and Roll and so does Lopez.

Nobody even understands what the triangle is. They make it seem like it's Alchemy. Kerr and Popovich use Triangle ideas in their offense. If you want to ridicule a guy with 11 rings, it makes you look like an ignorant asshole to use these types of arguments.

and the team will be better this year, and more fun to watch, hopefully that guy will give me more tix!