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Giants withdraw multi-year offer to JPP of $60 million

Vin_Cuccs : 7/6/2015 1:12 pm
via NFL Insider (Adam Schefter) Twitter account. Details to follow.
step 1 complete  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 1:13 pm : link
step 2 (rescinding the franchise tag) won't be decided until they can confirm the medical report.
doh!  
GMAN4LIFE : 7/6/2015 1:13 pm : link
fucking idiot
....  
Vin_Cuccs : 7/6/2015 1:14 pm : link
Sorry, report came from Ian Rapoport, not Adam Schefter.

Apparently the team had a $60 million dollar long-term offer on the table and withdrew it after the fireworks accident on Saturday.
Hm.  
illmatic : 7/6/2015 1:14 pm : link
Wonder if they're just sending a "stop being a dumbass and get your head on straight" signal or if the injury might be on the serious side. Have they said anything definitive yet? I keep seeing articles that say he'll be fine and others that say he's still in serious long term danger with his hand.
Guy did the Giants a huge favor  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 1:14 pm : link
.
He may want to re-think  
Lithium : 7/6/2015 1:15 pm : link
the whole firework thing.
His agent  
Bubba : 7/6/2015 1:15 pm : link
must be dying.
Rapoport now reporting that Pierre-Paul will play the year on the  
Vin_Cuccs : 7/6/2015 1:15 pm : link
franchise tag.
Too Bad For JPP  
Trainmaster : 7/6/2015 1:15 pm : link
but this appears to be a smart move by the Giants.
.  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2015 1:15 pm : link
Quote:
Giants withdraw $60M long-term offer to Jason Pierre-Paul following fireworks incident, per @RapSheet http://at.nfl.com/xeHscn2
RE: Rapoport now reporting that Pierre-Paul will play the year on the  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 1:16 pm : link
In comment 12358043 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
franchise tag.


But can he hold the pen to sign the deal?
60 million seems a far distance from long term money for a DE  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 1:16 pm : link
no wonder they didn't get a deal done sooner if that was their offer.
I wonder if that was $60M  
Enoch : 7/6/2015 1:17 pm : link
over 5 years or 4.
RE: Rapoport now reporting that Pierre-Paul will play the year on the  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 1:17 pm : link
In comment 12358043 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
franchise tag.


Yeah, but that's nothing new. His only choice was signing the tag, the offer, or sitting out.
RE: 60 million seems a far distance from long term money for a DE  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2015 1:18 pm : link
In comment 12358049 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
no wonder they didn't get a deal done sooner if that was their offer.


it's almost the exact same offer Robert Quinn got.

Only Mario Williams was higher paid at the 4-3 DE spot.
It was most likely 5 years  
JonC : 7/6/2015 1:19 pm : link
given the talk they pegged his value at approx. $12M per.
....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 7/6/2015 1:20 pm : link
I imagine this means his injury was due to negligence rather than a faulty firework. Looking at Florida laws, seems only sparklers are legal.
"Only Mario Williams was higher paid at the 4-3 DE spot."  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 1:21 pm : link
That's actually pretty fascinating. I would not have thought this was the case.
Interesting  
Bubba : 7/6/2015 1:21 pm : link
is he also facing possible prosecution?
In contract language terms  
JonC : 7/6/2015 1:23 pm : link
I strongly doubt even a faulty firework has any bearing at all. This probably falls under some type of clause where the player agrees to not put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation.
What a shit show.  
shabu : 7/6/2015 1:23 pm : link
What a shit show.
Update:  
Vin_Cuccs : 7/6/2015 1:24 pm : link
Pierre-Paul had turned down the $60 million offer anyways so that may not change much.
Contract?  
YATITLE : 7/6/2015 1:24 pm : link
If the Giants and JPP sign tender - is it guaranteed or can the Giants cut him and not lose $?
RE: Update:  
Lithium : 7/6/2015 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12358072 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
Pierre-Paul had turned down the $60 million offer anyways so that may not change much.


Oops.
Looks like the Giants are  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 1:27 pm : link
washing their hands of JPP long term...no pun intended.
PSA for the kids out there  
B in ALB : 7/6/2015 1:28 pm : link
You can get most any fireworks in Florida.  
SuperRonJohnson : 7/6/2015 1:29 pm : link
You just fill out a form saying you are using them for a sporting event or to scare off migratory birds or a few other BS reasons.
From a business perspective probably right way to go.  
Watson : 7/6/2015 1:30 pm : link
Until you know the extent of the injury & how it may affect long term play, you can't be offering anyone a long term deal with guaranteed money.

That said for a top DE,NYG not being overly generous. Could see why it wasn't done. Would appear NYG message this year, show me consistant play & than will show you the money.
Ian Rapoport.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 1:31 pm : link
The #Giants pulling their long-term offer may not alter the JPP outcome. He wasn’t going to accept it anyway.
$60 million over 4 years  
mac attack : 7/6/2015 1:31 pm : link
Seems like a fair contact for both parties. Now sure how much more JPP and his agent were looking for. He would still be in demand after 4 years if he performs and could capitalize on another deal if he plays well. If he doesn't, he wouldn't see $15 mil per year anyway.
Really nervous if they pull the tag and JPP becomes an UFA  
Sonic Youth : 7/6/2015 1:32 pm : link
I definitely don't want to lose him a year early over this.
Time to move on  
Joey in VA : 7/6/2015 1:32 pm : link
From this dolt. Too much fame and success too fast and at 26 he's flamed out.
So, is it fair to assume  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 1:32 pm : link
the Giants aren't going to offer JPP anything over $60 million and since JPP already wasn't willing to accept it, he's gone after this season?
DE will be the no 1  
spike : 7/6/2015 1:34 pm : link
need AGAIn next offseason.
Not sure I'm buying this  
ghost718 : 7/6/2015 1:35 pm : link
Guy is sitting in a hospital looking like a blown up Wile E Coyote,and than they take the contract off the table.

Doesn't seem like the Giants,but ya never know these days.
just too much risk there  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 1:35 pm : link
And it has nothing to do with his fireworks mishap - he was already someone who has displayed a lot of immaturity and lack of dedication in his career, not to mention uneven performances on the field. He's just not a solid investment in the long term.
RE: Really nervous if they pull the tag and JPP becomes an UFA  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 1:36 pm : link
In comment 12358110 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I definitely don't want to lose him a year early over this.


Why? You really think he's going to play well enough to justify the expense this year?

The best case scenario is that he isn't a Giant this season. Franchising him was a mistake in the first place.
I agree with Joey in VA.  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 1:36 pm : link
.......
So  
Joey in VA : 7/6/2015 1:38 pm : link
We lost our best OL because he trained too hard and our best DL because he's a complete dipshit. After the crap year we had running and stopping the run, we lost our two best assets in both areas from a year ago. Wonderful
thats ok ...  
Hem Roid : 7/6/2015 1:41 pm : link
we can follow both careers as they are NY Jets in 2016 ...
This mediocre defense  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 1:42 pm : link
just became below mediocre. I hope Eli and the offense focus on long, long drives to keep them off the field
This was expected  
GiantsFan84 : 7/6/2015 1:43 pm : link
First and foremost, the extent of his injury is still unknown and there is possible nerve damage in his hand. It is also unclear how long he will be sidelined with this injury. So it's unclear how he soon and how well he will play after this injury to his hand. Not a good idea to lock someone up long-term with this being an unknown.

Second, he injured himself setting off fireworks. A lot of people set off fireworks and don't get hurt, but some do. I'm not going so far to say this was reckless, many people do this without incident. But it's dumb to do ANYTHING that can result in injury other than preparing for the season before you sign the franchise tag or the new contract. He's also shown up fat and out of shape in the past which shows his offseason decision making is not the best. Another reason not to lock him up long-term.

But I don't get why people want him off the team because of this. Let's see the prognosis before we start saying that stuff.
I hope he's done here.  
bceagle05 : 7/6/2015 1:46 pm : link
Tired of his act.
How could they NOT pull the offer?  
Jolly Blue Giant : 7/6/2015 1:47 pm : link
He is still in the hospital. He will have to be examined and it will probably take weeks to months to really access the nerve damage and hand strength from the injury. This move isn't a slight against JPP, it's the only decision they can make at this point in time.
This is a good move  
MotownGIANTS : 7/6/2015 1:47 pm : link
He plays on the tag if hand checks out ... Agent is in his ear to stop the BS ... so is his fam (otherwsie the meal ticket goes away) ... TC talks to him Strahan and Tuck surely called him and said sit down and chill out you were lucky as @#$!

If he listens grows up he'll be fine. Otherwise we sign a big dawg DL next year.
For some, this could be the last straw or just another strike  
JonC : 7/6/2015 1:47 pm : link
For many, it's an emotional reaction to him possibly not being able to play football. Let's face it, a healthy chunk of any fanbase posts irrationally based on perception of how something affects the team's chances of winning.
No Way  
Giants2012 : 7/6/2015 1:49 pm : link
WOW

I wonder how much info they gathered to come to this decision.
so much (until now)  
djm : 7/6/2015 1:50 pm : link
for the Giants being terrified of signing JPP long term...

I don't blame them for withdrawing the long term offer but I had a feeling the earlier reports of the Giants not wanting any part of long term JPP to be pure BS. This would seem to confirm that belief.


What is JPP's act?  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 1:51 pm : link
What have I missed? I see a guy who hasn't repeated 1 tremendous year but other than that has been clearly our best defensive player and number 2 is not close. He gave guarantees? Is that part of his act? He has been a very good representative of the NY Giants, but because he didn't live up to that 1 year, he has an "act"? I hate some of you deeply
RE: Not sure I'm buying this  
fbdad : 7/6/2015 1:51 pm : link
In comment 12358121 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Guy is sitting in a hospital looking like a blown up Wile E Coyote,and than they take the contract off the table.

Doesn't seem like the Giants,but ya never know these days.


They can always offer it again once the medical situation is better understood. They've got until the 15th to come to a long term deal. It makes sense not to have a $60 million offer out there, especially presuming that some sizable portion is guaranteed, until a Giants doctor can assess the situation.
I jumped the gun  
Giants2012 : 7/6/2015 1:51 pm : link
I see he'll play under the franchise number.

Well, it is in the budget so . . . .

I applaud the Giants for withdrawing the longer term offer (not that it wasn't a no brainer).
as cited above, he probably wasn't going to sign it anyway  
mfsd : 7/6/2015 1:52 pm : link
but this makes the message clear - prove this season he's worthy of a serious long term commitment, or sayonara
RE: Guy did the Giants a huge favor  
djm : 7/6/2015 1:53 pm : link
In comment 12358039 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


So if and when the Giants are mediocre on D this coming season we can all take solace in the fact that JPP did everyone a huge favor by torpedoing the Giants DL before week 1 even begins?

IF JPP wrecked this season or his career this is NOT a good thing at all. Not in any way shape of form. He's an idiot at times but I have news for you Terps, most of them are idiots. LT was too. He worked out ok didn't he?
RE: as cited above, he probably wasn't going to sign it anyway  
JonC : 7/6/2015 1:53 pm : link
In comment 12358178 mfsd said:
Quote:
but this makes the message clear - prove this season he's worthy of a serious long term commitment, or sayonara


Yup, it serves to reinforce their position and now put the majority of fans in their corner should they wind up parting ways.
GIants defense has sucked with JPP.  
bceagle05 : 7/6/2015 1:54 pm : link
It can suck without him.
his need to show the NFL that he is a serious football player  
idiotsavant : 7/6/2015 1:54 pm : link
just increased ten fold. first, he fell off after the fast start, now, duh.
LT was a jerk off the field and almost wound up  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 1:55 pm : link
dead. But don't ever mention JPP and LT in the same breath ON THE FIELD. LT made everybody around him better. JPP needs an LT next to him in order to be a playmaker.
too much fame and success??  
djm : 7/6/2015 1:56 pm : link
lol...you guys are precious...

So when I was blowing off fireworks at age 20-25 was the fame getting to my head too?

We hold these guys to a special standard ...look I get it these guys need to be careful and show some maturity. JPP shouldn't be taking risks...but you're really going to just close the book on this guy's career all because he blew a firework off? What if he's not that injured and can play week 1? What if he has another good year? LEt him walk anyway?

Tough crowd...
Silent no more  
ZogZerg : 7/6/2015 1:57 pm : link
..
..  
djm : 7/6/2015 1:59 pm : link
Quote:
The best case scenario is that he isn't a Giant this season. Franchising him was a mistake in the first place.


WHAAAAA?

Only you terps...

How on Earth is this anything but the worst case scenario??? The only way this doesn't end up hurting us is if EVERY single young DE on the roster turns into Bruce Smith. I have news for you, this isn't happening.

YAY...we lost our best DLineman. I'm so happy right now.

The bad thing about pro sports is that it puts pretty absurd standards  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 1:59 pm : link
on 20 year old kids that no regular person would ever tolerate being put on themselves at such a young age.

I wish we could look at some of ridiculous BS that some of us did at 24.
Yes, let him walk off a good year, if not right now.  
bceagle05 : 7/6/2015 2:00 pm : link
There enough evidence to prove he'll be on cruise control once he gets his big payday.
Such tough standards  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 2:02 pm : link
hoping a 26 year old man on the verge of being set for life financially isn't stupid enough to blow his hand off with a firework. How do these guys cope? :(
RE: RE: Guy did the Giants a huge favor  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 2:03 pm : link
In comment 12358180 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 12358039 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



So if and when the Giants are mediocre on D this coming season we can all take solace in the fact that JPP did everyone a huge favor by torpedoing the Giants DL before week 1 even begins?

IF JPP wrecked this season or his career this is NOT a good thing at all. Not in any way shape of form. He's an idiot at times but I have news for you Terps, most of them are idiots. LT was too. He worked out ok didn't he?


The defense has been worse than mediocre for years with JPP on it. There won't be a drop off this year because there is nowhere to go but up on that side of the ball.

I hope JPP is ok and ready to continue his career this season. I believe the burden is now completely on the Giants to realize that they were considering committing an enormous error by pinning any part of their future to this player. The collective feeling in the front office should be "What were we thinking?"

The Giants' front office just got a cold bucket of water dumped on their heads. If that won't wake them up and push them towards the right decision, nothing will.

djm we've been having this discussion for weeks. I don't think your position was strengthened this weekend.
RE: LT was a jerk off the field and almost wound up  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:04 pm : link
In comment 12358187 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
dead. But don't ever mention JPP and LT in the same breath ON THE FIELD. LT made everybody around him better. JPP needs an LT next to him in order to be a playmaker.


Oh stop. LT was the best player ever but he was a ticking time tomb of destruction off the field. His off the field act blows JPP's "act" away and that's being kind.

If you let every idiot walk from your roster you won't be good for very long. There's a fine line between smart football move and cutting your nose to spite your face.

If JPP has another good year this firework shit shouldn't sway the Giants one way or the other. Something to ponder and think about? Sure...but relax...this is a kid who made his first off the field mistake. Get that? HIS FIRST. Relax.

Giants are not signing jpp to franchise tag $$$'s for one year  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 2:04 pm : link
After doing the Wile E. Coyote super genius act..he is not worth top dollar
djm  
MotownGIANTS : 7/6/2015 2:04 pm : link
He should not be handling dangerous fireworks ... have someone from the entourage do it....

He is at a higher standard cause he has more at stake....
and I didn't mention LT and JPP in the same sentence on the field  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:05 pm : link
..
RE: Yes, let him walk off a good year, if not right now.  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:05 pm : link
In comment 12358203 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
There enough evidence to prove he'll be on cruise control once he gets his big payday.


No there isn't.
RE: Yes, let him walk off a good year, if not right now.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 2:06 pm : link
In comment 12358203 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
There enough evidence to prove he'll be on cruise control once he gets his big payday.


I don't know if that was cruise control or if that was him actually trying his best..
RE: The bad thing about pro sports is that it puts pretty absurd standards  
RC02XX : 7/6/2015 2:07 pm : link
In comment 12358199 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
on 20 year old kids that no regular person would ever tolerate being put on themselves at such a young age.

I wish we could look at some of ridiculous BS that some of us did at 24.


Haha...definitely no 20-something year old kids can make right choices and live up to pretty high standards. Where can we find such a group?
I managed to survive my youth  
bceagle05 : 7/6/2015 2:09 pm : link
without shooting myself in the leg or blowing up my hand on fireworks. Didn't take much effort on my part, either.
unless JPP is done ( he isn't)  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:10 pm : link
rescinding the FT would be the dumbest thing this team could do.

The guy is our best defensive player. You don't just throw that away unless it's completely necessary. OK he's an idiot. HE's never been in trouble. He's had 3 good to great years out of the five he's played and he's 26, coming off a very very good year. Calm the hell down and hope he can play week 1. That's all there is to this story.
If this deal is now  
Lithium : 7/6/2015 2:12 pm : link
officially off the table, why pay this man 15 million this year? He may not even play the full 16 game schedule.

Obviously, this team is no longer committed long term with him, cut the cord now.
Tough standards?  
Joey in VA : 7/6/2015 2:12 pm : link
You bet your ass, these are investments, not guys rotation tires at Jiffy Lube. If you are paid millions of dollars by a flagship franchise of the most profitable league in this country you better believe you're held to a higher standard than Joe Drywall.

JPP came on like gangbusters, then after the SB he goes and gets too heavy, play suffers and he incurs a herniated disk. He comes back from the disc and plays like garbage, then gets injured again and does nothing. He finally seems to be semi-fit and takes half of 2014 to get into form. Toward the end of the year he starts sounding non committal about his future, doesn't really seem to want to stay long term, doesn't sign his tender, doesn't join his teammates for OTAs or mini camp and now this. This team "leader" who took the torch from Justin Tuck, used it to burn off his hand after he tossed a young CB into an ice tub to show off his leadership.

He's an idiot, he's proven it over and over again and this at a time when he's supposed to be preparing for a contract year playing at an insane $14.8 million cap number. Gee I"m so sorry for holding someone accountable who will make that much fucking money taking a job we can only dream of being capable of holding. I had more sense not to blow my hand off when I was 10, and he's a highly paid, highly visible 26 year old NFL veteran with a family and a super bowl ring and he STILL does something this stupid. All while NOT under contract and hoping to have a pay day.

If you guys are OK with that, fine, but to suggest that no one with a rooting interest in this team is allowed to be perturbed by this is just being self serving and holier than thou. I love the crowd that sits in judgement of opinions and judges ONLY that and deems themselves above the fray or terribly level headed and not prone to caring. I'm sorry, I care, I want my team to win and I want my players to be people I can be proud of and when they do idiotic things it perturbs me. Wasting opportunities makes me sick, in every walk of life and this is no different to me.
Whether this is a 20-something being stupid is irrelevant  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 2:14 pm : link
JPP will be a 20-something for a few more years. He's established his stupidity. Is that stupidity going to go away if he's making $12-$15 million a year?

if you pull the long term offer (they should)  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:15 pm : link
and then pull the FT, JPP is a UFA. Another words, he's gone. If JPP appears to be healthy enough to join camp and prepare for week 1, you don't pull the FT. You want to keep Coughlin and Spags and win games this year? Keeping a motivated JPP helps get to that goal.

I know...The team sucked with JPP so he's not a good player I take it? Whatever that means. I guess Clay Matthews sucks too since his D always fucking sucks in GB. Am I right?

Would jpp be able to collect Ad&d benefits?  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 2:15 pm : link
This was unintentional.
That great Ralph Kiner argument  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:16 pm : link
when Kiner asked for a raise the GM told him we finished last with you, we can finish last without you. If JPP doesn't play, you thought last year was hard to watch? This year will be worse, a lot worse
RE: too much fame and success??  
montanagiant : 7/6/2015 2:16 pm : link
In comment 12358191 djm said:
Quote:
lol...you guys are precious...

So when I was blowing off fireworks at age 20-25 was the fame getting to my head too?

We hold these guys to a special standard ...look I get it these guys need to be careful and show some maturity. JPP shouldn't be taking risks...but you're really going to just close the book on this guy's career all because he blew a firework off? What if he's not that injured and can play week 1? What if he has another good year? LEt him walk anyway?

Tough crowd...

I see your point and agree with most of it. However, when these athletes sign contracts worth millions of dollars, those contracts specifically address the fact that off-season activities are not to be career dangerous. Blowing off Fireworks illegally clearly fits into that criteria.
dude  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:16 pm : link
you act like all these athletes are rhodes scholars...

JPP has done exactly one dumb thing off the field since he was drafted. One. This is it.

Throwing prince in the pool? Uh...no. Doesn't count.
JPP  
AndyB : 7/6/2015 2:16 pm : link
The Giants rescinded their long-term contract offer to JPP to legally protect themselves until the extent of his injuries can be determined.

The Giants can make him another offer any time in the future.

This is not as big a story as it appears.
unless JPP misses time from this  
djm : 7/6/2015 2:20 pm : link
this story is bring ridiculously hyped up and made out to sound like JPP went on a killing spree.

No one would care if JPP got caught driving drunk. They all do that. Including David Diehl. We should have cut his ass too I take it?

Funny I don't remember any backlash that day towards Diehl...I don't remember people saying to cut Keith Hamilton when he was passed out on the GWB piss fucking wasted or when LT pulled that crap once a year, at least.

But JPP is an idiot. No one else is though.
RE: RE: The bad thing about pro sports is that it puts pretty absurd standards  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 2:21 pm : link
In comment 12358228 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12358199 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


on 20 year old kids that no regular person would ever tolerate being put on themselves at such a young age.

I wish we could look at some of ridiculous BS that some of us did at 24.



Haha...definitely no 20-something year old kids can make right choices and live up to pretty high standards. Where can we find such a group?


Sure, they can. But they also screw up. It's what they do. He's not out there getting popped for DWIs or meeting the NJ State troopers with a few ounces in his car. To read some of the posts in here, there's a lot of ferocious finger-wagging and brow beating like he's doing unprecedentedly thoughtless things.

I'm not clear on what this supposed pattern of bad decisions is. What was the last thing, throwing Prince in a tub?
RE: RE: LT was a jerk off the field and almost wound up  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 2:23 pm : link
In comment 12358213 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 12358187 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


dead. But don't ever mention JPP and LT in the same breath ON THE FIELD. LT made everybody around him better. JPP needs an LT next to him in order to be a playmaker.



Oh stop. LT was the best player ever but he was a ticking time tomb of destruction off the field. His off the field act blows JPP's "act" away and that's being kind.

If you let every idiot walk from your roster you won't be good for very long. There's a fine line between smart football move and cutting your nose to spite your face.

If JPP has another good year this firework shit shouldn't sway the Giants one way or the other. Something to ponder and think about? Sure...but relax...this is a kid who made his first off the field mistake. Get that? HIS FIRST. Relax.


Oh stop what? What part of "LT was a jerk off the field and almost wound up dead" leads to believe I thought LT wasn't a problem to himself and others off the field.?
...  
christian : 7/6/2015 2:23 pm : link
This isn't hard. You can't have an offer on the table to a guy who's health you haven't verified. It would be a mess with the CBA and union. Especially if they based that offer on a physical he might have taken prior to this incident and he signed the damned thing.

When the dust settles and they know his health, they'll make a value judgement on his health. There is absolutely no reason to touch his tender unless they are brain dead. If he's good to go, he's no different of a risk tomorrow than last week.
RE: dude  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 2:24 pm : link
In comment 12358258 djm said:
Quote:
you act like all these athletes are rhodes scholars...

JPP has done exactly one dumb thing off the field since he was drafted. One. This is it.

Throwing prince in the pool? Uh...no. Doesn't count.


Try to deflect all you want, the facts remain: this guy let a firework explode in his hand, likely a few feet away from a van full of fireworks and with his kid nearby. He did this during the most crucial financial stage of his career.

Maybe that's garden variety stupid, I don't know. I do know I don't give that guy $15 million and trust him to live up to that number.

This issue is now about the Giants, not JPP. We know what JPP is. He established that beyond doubt.
Tyron Smith  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:25 pm : link
Trent Williams
Jason Peters

lives got a hell of a lot easier
David Diehl wasn't being considered for a enormous contract  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 2:25 pm : link
.
RE: and I didn't mention LT and JPP in the same sentence on the field  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 2:27 pm : link
In comment 12358218 djm said:
Quote:
..


you did. you compared LTs off field shenanigans and asked "how'd that work out?" as though JPP was a similar force.

News flash djm: JPP ain't that kind of force. He's not even the force that Tuck was, let alone Strahan. He was supposed to carry the tradition after Tuck moved on, but he's not that kind of player. He's a good player, but he's a support player. He needs to be surrounded by other studs. He's not the stud who draws so much attention that the others can roam free.
You cant make some of this stuff up  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:28 pm : link
you have to read it and let it sink in, then you say to yourself, i associate online with a group of dummies
The argument for dropping the tag is simple:  
Enoch : 7/6/2015 2:30 pm : link
2015 is very unlikely to be the Giants' year, and the Giants are very unlikely to be especially competitive for JPP's services if/when he does hit the open market.

Overspending for 1 more year of a player can be a smart thing to do when you're trying to keep a contenting team together for another shot at a title, but in this situation, it's wasteful. If you need to rebuild, commit your resources to rebuilding, not trying to make the interim years look pretty.
RE: RE: and I didn't mention LT and JPP in the same sentence on the field  
2ndroundKO : 7/6/2015 2:31 pm : link
In comment 12358281 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12358218 djm said:


Quote:


..



you did. you compared LTs off field shenanigans and asked "how'd that work out?" as though JPP was a similar force.

News flash djm: JPP ain't that kind of force. He's not even the force that Tuck was, let alone Strahan. He was supposed to carry the tradition after Tuck moved on, but he's not that kind of player. He's a good player, but he's a support player. He needs to be surrounded by other studs. He's not the stud who draws so much attention that the others can roam free.


On what planet is 12.5 sacks and 76 tackles (by a DE!) a "support player?"
RE: You cant make some of this stuff up  
bceagle05 : 7/6/2015 2:35 pm : link
In comment 12358282 Headhunter said:
Quote:
you have to read it and let it sink in, then you say to yourself, i associate online with a group of dummies


Yeah it's all so easy when it's not your $100 million dollars he's asking for. If any part of this season is in doubt, the Giants would be idiots for not pulling the tender and telling him to get lost. They should probably do it anyway, but I respect them for not making a knee-jerk decision here.
planet  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:35 pm : link
BBI where reality & fantasy are the same
RE: RE: RE: and I didn't mention LT and JPP in the same sentence on the field  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12358288 2ndroundKO said:
Quote:
In comment 12358281 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 12358218 djm said:


Quote:


..



you did. you compared LTs off field shenanigans and asked "how'd that work out?" as though JPP was a similar force.

News flash djm: JPP ain't that kind of force. He's not even the force that Tuck was, let alone Strahan. He was supposed to carry the tradition after Tuck moved on, but he's not that kind of player. He's a good player, but he's a support player. He needs to be surrounded by other studs. He's not the stud who draws so much attention that the others can roam free.



On what planet is 12.5 sacks and 76 tackles (by a DE!) a "support player?"


you're right, wrong choice of words. I always said he was a very good run player and should probably be LDE. I don't think he's a dominant pass rusher. Many have pointed out that the sacks were against weak sisters. I don't think he's an elite pass rusher. He needs a Tuck, Canty Kiwi alongside to be freed up.
RE: RE: RE: RE: and I didn't mention LT and JPP in the same sentence on the field  
2ndroundKO : 7/6/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12358300 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12358288 2ndroundKO said:


Quote:


In comment 12358281 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 12358218 djm said:


Quote:


..



you did. you compared LTs off field shenanigans and asked "how'd that work out?" as though JPP was a similar force.

News flash djm: JPP ain't that kind of force. He's not even the force that Tuck was, let alone Strahan. He was supposed to carry the tradition after Tuck moved on, but he's not that kind of player. He's a good player, but he's a support player. He needs to be surrounded by other studs. He's not the stud who draws so much attention that the others can roam free.



On what planet is 12.5 sacks and 76 tackles (by a DE!) a "support player?"



you're right, wrong choice of words. I always said he was a very good run player and should probably be LDE. I don't think he's a dominant pass rusher. Many have pointed out that the sacks were against weak sisters. I don't think he's an elite pass rusher. He needs a Tuck, Canty Kiwi alongside to be freed up.

Everyone's sacks are against "weak sisters." 50% of Watt's sacks were against two of the worst O-lines in football. That's just how sacks come. Ask Tyron Smith if JPP isn't a strong pass rusher. Dominant? IDK. 12.5 sacks is pretty darn good if you ask me.
RE: RE: You cant make some of this stuff up  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 2:39 pm : link
In comment 12358295 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 12358282 Headhunter said:


Quote:


you have to read it and let it sink in, then you say to yourself, i associate online with a group of dummies



Yeah it's all so easy when it's not your $100 million dollars he's asking for. If any part of this season is in doubt, the Giants would be idiots for not pulling the tender and telling him to get lost. They should probably do it anyway, but I respect them for not making a knee-jerk decision here.


You can bet they are thinking it over long and hard while they investigate what actually happened. There still isn't any real info available to make that kind of decision. Nobody knows what kind of damage was inflicted.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 7/6/2015 2:40 pm : link
1) Is the Franchise Tag already a done deal? Can it be rescinded? If so, is there a deadline to do so?

2) I only ask #1 in case the damage prevents him from playing in part or all of the season.

3) There are so many conflicting reports about his condition, it really makes no sense for anyone here to start making decisions for the front office.

4) At this point, whether he was likely to sign that long term deal or not, it was a prudent move by the giants to pull the long term deal. there are now enough questions to warrant not leaving more potential to get burned.

5) For this year, if he can play, it probably benefits the Giants to have a player like him needing to prove himself.

6) As for the mediocre D, with or without him, I expect an improvement just because I absolutely despised Fewell's system and because I think they upgraded some other positions. to what extent either holds true remains to be seen. but, much like 2011, this team's chances are riding primarily on Eli and the passing game.
It's your $100 million?  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:40 pm : link
how stupid is that? I got JJ Watt as the better all around DE, then JPP, who you got?
the guy was the 3rd best player  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 2:40 pm : link
on the team last year. Eli and Beckham being the only 2 better. I can't believe this guy made such a foolish decision that put his life in danger and let down the entire organization. Hands are so important for DLineman too, especially a guy like JPP who relies on pure power to toss around OTs rather than speed moves. I really hope the guy can recover and give us a big year, he may be an idiot but he's one of the keys to this team and hopefully he can still bring it.
RE: Tough standards?  
ZogZerg : 7/6/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12358241 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
You bet your ass, these are investments, not guys rotation tires at Jiffy Lube. If you are paid millions of dollars by a flagship franchise of the most profitable league in this country you better believe you're held to a higher standard than Joe Drywall.

JPP came on like gangbusters, then after the SB he goes and gets too heavy, play suffers and he incurs a herniated disk. He comes back from the disc and plays like garbage, then gets injured again and does nothing. He finally seems to be semi-fit and takes half of 2014 to get into form. Toward the end of the year he starts sounding non committal about his future, doesn't really seem to want to stay long term, doesn't sign his tender, doesn't join his teammates for OTAs or mini camp and now this. This team "leader" who took the torch from Justin Tuck, used it to burn off his hand after he tossed a young CB into an ice tub to show off his leadership.

He's an idiot, he's proven it over and over again and this at a time when he's supposed to be preparing for a contract year playing at an insane $14.8 million cap number. Gee I"m so sorry for holding someone accountable who will make that much fucking money taking a job we can only dream of being capable of holding. I had more sense not to blow my hand off when I was 10, and he's a highly paid, highly visible 26 year old NFL veteran with a family and a super bowl ring and he STILL does something this stupid. All while NOT under contract and hoping to have a pay day.

If you guys are OK with that, fine, but to suggest that no one with a rooting interest in this team is allowed to be perturbed by this is just being self serving and holier than thou. I love the crowd that sits in judgement of opinions and judges ONLY that and deems themselves above the fray or terribly level headed and not prone to caring. I'm sorry, I care, I want my team to win and I want my players to be people I can be proud of and when they do idiotic things it perturbs me. Wasting opportunities makes me sick, in every walk of life and this is no different to me.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This
Nice job on this post.
There is a reason accidents are called accidents  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:44 pm : link
was it a dumb move?, yeah since it blew up it turned out to be.
I can see JPP  
Fish : 7/6/2015 2:46 pm : link
having a chip on his shoulder (assuming hand turns out ok). The chip being Giants recinded their offer to me, now screw them.... I will play a great year and go play for the competition
I could care less  
PaulN : 7/6/2015 2:46 pm : link
If the Giants let this guy walk, he has never been a leader, never done anything special other then his 1 great season, last year he was a good player, but nothing close to what he was his one great season. A franchise player needs to be a player you build a team around, I am not building my team around this player.

Glad the Giants took the long term deal off the table, maybe they can get him a lot cheaper now, if they can then do it, if he still wants to act like he is great then goodbye because he is not a great player by any stretch of the imagination.

LT was one of the greatest players in the history of the game, to even mention this player in the same breathe as LT is a joke. LT had problems off the field, not on them, this guy has problems off the field and on the field. He is not even in the same stratosphere as far as a player. To compare them on the field is a joke.

LT was the biggest reason, BY FAR, that the Giants won the 2 Super Bowls they did in the 86 and 90 seasons.
RE: dude  
montanagiant : 7/6/2015 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12358258 djm said:
Quote:
you act like all these athletes are rhodes scholars...

JPP has done exactly one dumb thing off the field since he was drafted. One. This is it.

Throwing prince in the pool? Uh...no. Doesn't count.

This is so far beyond a "dumb thing" its absurd to even associate it with throwing someone into a pool. He had a van full of illegal fireworks he is lighting off himself. Now that is just one part of the stupid, he doubled down on it with the genius idea of lighting them off in his hand.

And he is 26 years old, not a kid
I dont see him doing that  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:48 pm : link
I see him taking responsibility for his actions and playing his ass off and revistiing negotiations next off season
Fish  
PaulN : 7/6/2015 2:48 pm : link
You are dreaming if you think he is that good, let's see him have a great season this year despite whatever goes on before we even think of his future with this team.
"sacks were against two of the worst O-lines in football. That's just  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 2:51 pm : link
how sacks come."

Really? That's an insult to the truly great players past and present. Great players do it in big spots against top teams and make the players around them better. LT, Joe Greene, Deacon Jones, Reggie White.

I don't watch Watt enough to how he compares to some of the great players I mentioned, but if what you say is true about his sack stats being padded against garbage OLs, then I would hold him to the same standard as JPP. The Giants seemed to contain him pretty well when they played him this year, but that is the only game I saw him play.
Headline in NY Post  
manh george : 7/6/2015 2:51 pm : link
"Giants Give JPP the Finger, Reconstituting a Full Set."

Only, I guess Reconstituting is too big a word for the Post.
Everybody knows fireworks are illegal, and everybody  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 2:52 pm : link
this weekend watched people set off illegal fireworks on their street, or did it themselves.

Suddenly we're gonna moralize fireworks because it's convenient to the discussion?

RE: It's your $100 million?  
bceagle05 : 7/6/2015 2:52 pm : link
In comment 12358304 Headhunter said:
Quote:
how stupid is that? I got JJ Watt as the better all around DE, then JPP, who you got?


No, it's the Giants' $100 million, and it's their call, not ours. You're gonna rank JPP as the #2 DE in football right now? Might want to wait to see on that nerve damage he supposedly suffered. Even if he is right now - which is entirely possible - he likely won't be over the next five years. His overall play has declined since 2011, and I doubt it'll improvement with a fortune added to his bank account.
PaulN  
Fish : 7/6/2015 2:52 pm : link
I gotta think this kid grows up a bit after this life changing experience. Perhaps appreciates what he possibly can lose here.
Different people react differently...  
81_Great_Dane : 7/6/2015 2:53 pm : link
... but I'll be disappointed if this isn't a "scared straight" moment for JPP.

It's not like he's been suspended for drugs, or ran over anybody, or shot anybody, or killed a teammate in a car accident, or any of the other horrible things NFL players have done in recent years. But it does seem like he's been pretty immature, and this is just the latest example. This is the kind of thing that can make you think "What the fuck am I doing? I nearly lost tens of millions of dollars, maybe hundreds of millions, and my entire football career, not to mention my HAND, for the sake of some stupid fireworks. Maybe I should get more serious."
JPP was Pro Bowl level in '12 and '14  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 2:54 pm : link
The way some of you guys make it seem like he only had one good year in '11 and has been mediocre since then is among the stupidest opinions that you regularly see on BBI.
RE:  
2ndroundKO : 7/6/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12358328 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
how sacks come."

Really? That's an insult to the truly great players past and present. Great players do it in big spots against top teams and make the players around them better. LT, Joe Greene, Deacon Jones, Reggie White.

I don't watch Watt enough to how he compares to some of the great players I mentioned, but if what you say is true about his sack stats being padded against garbage OLs, then I would hold him to the same standard as JPP. The Giants seemed to contain him pretty well when they played him this year, but that is the only game I saw him play.

I just pointed out to you that Watt got 50% of his sacks against the two worst O-lines in football. Oh and he got one against us too. Actually, go down the list and you'll see that applies to most sack artists last year.

How many sacks did JPP have against Tyron Smith last year? 2? 3?

Jason Peters. 2? 3?

Trent Williams. 2? 3?

I mean, come on.
For LT, you put up with a lot more than you put up with from JPP  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 2:56 pm : link
Also, there was no unrestricted free agency or salary cap in LT's time. That changes the situation quite a bit.
Either way,  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 2:56 pm : link
it's good to see the Giants being smart about this. They definitely don't seem to married to him or seem desperate to to sign the guy, and that's a good thing.
I never said anything about his level of play  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 2:57 pm : link
going forward assuming his hand is 100%, you did. What I did say is that i'm not worried about someone else's money, salary cap, or no salary cap, it is not my business and I don't look into other peoples pockets. I did say on Friday he was the 2nd best all around DE in football today. If you think you can replace that and just walk away from JPP, then we see things differently
.  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 2:57 pm : link
Why would we expect JPP to play with a chip on his shoulder and kick ass under the franchise tag? What experience do we have to draw upon to believe that?

This is a guy that came in heavy after the Super Bowl win. He missed camp and followed that up by nearly blowing his hand off. What about that says "JPP is coming into 2015 focused and will be worth $15 million".

Am I crazy for saying that sounds like an enormous amount of wishful thinking?
RE: .  
2ndroundKO : 7/6/2015 2:58 pm : link
In comment 12358346 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Why would we expect JPP to play with a chip on his shoulder and kick ass under the franchise tag? What experience do we have to draw upon to believe that?

This is a guy that came in heavy after the Super Bowl win. He missed camp and followed that up by nearly blowing his hand off. What about that says "JPP is coming into 2015 focused and will be worth $15 million".

Am I crazy for saying that sounds like an enormous amount of wishful thinking?

Nah, you got it right, Terps. Assuming he's healthy enough to play this year, how do you see him performing?
and one other thing  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 2:58 pm : link
I've been setting off fireworks for the 4th since I was a kid, yet I've never injured myself. Almost invariably, when someone does something like this it is the result of foolish, unsafe actions. Fireworks are like firearms in that way - the potential for causing great harm means that you should be exceedingly careful in how you use them. I obviously can't say this as a fact, but my gut reaction is that he was doing something really stupid with his fireworks and that's how it blew up in his hand.
Here's how this fixes or plays out....  
Fish : 7/6/2015 3:01 pm : link
1) JPP is cleared to play opening day
2) JPP releases sincere apology to the Giants therefore manning up for being a dumb kid. Therefore showing maturity.
3) He proves to himself and everyone he is a pro bowl type player
4) Has solid year and becomes leader of this team by example, his work on the field, not by talk
5) Giants offer him a fair deal that he accepts which is far less than he would have gotten but since he apologized and proved to the Giants he has matured then it becomes a win/win.

This is the glass half full approach which is different than the most likely scenario where JPP tells the Giants to piss off next year because we pulled a deal off the table.
Absolutely  
manh george : 7/6/2015 3:02 pm : link
Quote:
Everybody knows fireworks are illegal, and everybody
this weekend watched people set off illegal fireworks on their street, or did it themselves.


And everyone I know who brought in a van-sized quantity of fireworks hired a licensed professional, which of course JPP could afford. Or at least, while in the middle of negotiating a contract of this size, hired an unlicensed illegal alien to reduce the risk to his family and career. We aren't talking about a couple of cherry bombs.

Oh, and Headhunter, any difference between crashing going going 100 mph on a local street and crashing going 30 mph? They are both accidents, right?

For some Reason Katy Perry's "Firework" song to a JPP Video  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 3:03 pm : link
sounds appropriate now.
prudent move  
fkap : 7/6/2015 3:03 pm : link
you do not give him the opportunity to sign your top offer when there are questions about his hand. tell his agent the offer is still on the table, but it's going to be reworked to give protection for the Giants should the hand not heal up quick enough for him to give a good first year.

Over the cap reports that giants are still protected with the tag, because it's a non football injury, with various possible options of paying all, none, or somewhere in between.

Paying him the full tag is questionable at best (I wouldn't have done it from the start), but it only becomes a good deal if the Giants get some sort of return on their investment.

giants have to protect themselves. and they can send a message at the same time.
Getting pissed at the giants for pulling the offer?  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:04 pm : link
after he did this to himself? It's like killing your parents and begging the judge for mercy because you are an orphan. he has to own up to this and I think he will.
Friend of mine might have it right  
DelZotto : 7/6/2015 3:04 pm : link
Quote, a Bad League, run by Bad people, and played by Bad people.
RE: RE: .  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:05 pm : link
In comment 12358350 2ndroundKO said:
Quote:
In comment 12358346 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Why would we expect JPP to play with a chip on his shoulder and kick ass under the franchise tag? What experience do we have to draw upon to believe that?

This is a guy that came in heavy after the Super Bowl win. He missed camp and followed that up by nearly blowing his hand off. What about that says "JPP is coming into 2015 focused and will be worth $15 million".

Am I crazy for saying that sounds like an enormous amount of wishful thinking?


Nah, you got it right, Terps. Assuming he's healthy enough to play this year, how do you see him performing?


I expected a poor year, and that was before this incident. Contract dispute, missing offseason stuff, new defense to learn...there was just no reason to think he'd come in both in shape AND focused enough to have a strong season. And certainly not strong enough to merit the enormous cost.

JPP's foolishness is beyond dispute, but the big mistake was made by the team to even go this far with him. It never made any sense. But they may have just gotten an out. I hope they're smart enough to take it.
RE: Friend of mine might have it right  
Randy in CT : 7/6/2015 3:06 pm : link
In comment 12358367 DelZotto said:
Quote:
Quote, a Bad League, run by Bad people, and played by Bad people.
Just dopey.
HH  
Fish : 7/6/2015 3:06 pm : link
I think there is a chance, since he is immature, that he could throw it in the Giants faces. He already walks around like the Giants owe him the world.....for what I don't know but he has his nose up in the air like that. Hopefully with this incident he grows up and learns from this.
Well, at least he didn't blow his head off  
SomeFan : 7/6/2015 3:08 pm : link
like the guy in Maine. So, dopey has that going for him.
Terps...  
2ndroundKO : 7/6/2015 3:09 pm : link
I doubt the Giants rescind the tag. Unless he just can't play this year. But I seriously doubt he gets anything long-term from us, no matter if he's an All-Pro or not.
I guess he wants more than that long term  
The Tempest : 7/6/2015 3:09 pm : link
If the Giants withdraw the offer, it is because he signed the Franchise Tender. He would have no problem signing it now as OTA is over and is going to show up for training camp.
"Baby your a Firework come and see you destroy your worth"  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 3:09 pm : link
can't think of any more lyrics...I don't have the intellect to finish
Everything I've read  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:09 pm : link
every interview I've seen with JPP, never once did I think about his maturity level or his intelligence. If you take his deep accent as a sign of his maturity and intelligence, that is up to you. I think he is a good guy and has not done 1thing while he wore a Giant uniform to disprove
that
RE: For LT, you put up with a lot more than you put up with from JPP  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 3:10 pm : link
In comment 12358339 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Also, there was no unrestricted free agency or salary cap in LT's time. That changes the situation quite a bit.


yep
RE: What is JPP's act?  
Kulish29 : 7/6/2015 3:11 pm : link
In comment 12358175 Headhunter said:
Quote:
What have I missed? I see a guy who hasn't repeated 1 tremendous year but other than that has been clearly our best defensive player and number 2 is not close. He gave guarantees? Is that part of his act? He has been a very good representative of the NY Giants, but because he didn't live up to that 1 year, he has an "act"? I hate some of you deeply


His gold chains and Instagram photos! Duh!
motivation  
fkap : 7/6/2015 3:12 pm : link
as of last Friday, I expected him to put in a full season. He needs 2 good consecutive years to get his dreamed of payday.

he probably could have started out slow and finished strong to achieve that, but teams would still see a half season with no excuses.

now, he can coast the first half the season, come on strong, and use the hand as an excuse, and it would be a valid one (it doesn't matter if the injury was self inflicted. his on field play would have an excuse)
HH  
Fish : 7/6/2015 3:12 pm : link
my opinion of him, could be wrong as its just perception, is of a guy who thinks he is owed something. He is probably somewhere in the middle of how you see him and how I see him.
To me he is a big  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:13 pm : link
fun loving kid that has never caused embarrassment to the organization. This doesn't change it, accidents happen
RE: Everything I've read  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:15 pm : link
In comment 12358383 Headhunter said:
Quote:
every interview I've seen with JPP, never once did I think about his maturity level or his intelligence. If you take his deep accent as a sign of his maturity and intelligence, that is up to you. I think he is a good guy and has not done 1thing while he wore a Giant uniform to disprove
that


You brought up the accent, I didn't. I'm a soccer fan and have heard athletes speak English with a million accents. I'm also a first generation American with people in my family that speak with an accent. I could give a shit about his accent.

If you didn't see the potential for problems it's because you weren't looking.
RE: .  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 3:16 pm : link
In comment 12358346 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Why would we expect JPP to play with a chip on his shoulder and kick ass under the franchise tag? What experience do we have to draw upon to believe that?

This is a guy that came in heavy after the Super Bowl win. He missed camp and followed that up by nearly blowing his hand off. What about that says "JPP is coming into 2015 focused and will be worth $15 million".

Am I crazy for saying that sounds like an enormous amount of wishful thinking?


Their whole defense is predicated on wishful thinking. JPP as you pointed out, Beason playing 16 games in good health, Kennard becoming a force and staying healthy, Prince having a healthy 16 games, Collins stepping in as a rookie and leading the Safeties as an every down force, Behre and/or Taylor taking over the other S spot and playing at a high level, all the young, new players mastering Spags D and contributing immediately. The D is the old "wish sandwich" - 2 slices of bread and wish you had some meat.
RE: To me he is a big  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12358392 Headhunter said:
Quote:
fun loving kid that has never caused embarrassment to the organization. This doesn't change it, accidents happen


This is such a crock of homer bullshit.
RE:  
Mason : 7/6/2015 3:18 pm : link
In comment 12358328 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
how sacks come."

Really? That's an insult to the truly great players past and present. Great players do it in big spots against top teams and make the players around them better. LT, Joe Greene, Deacon Jones, Reggie White.

I don't watch Watt enough to how he compares to some of the great players I mentioned, but if what you say is true about his sack stats being padded against garbage OLs, then I would hold him to the same standard as JPP. The Giants seemed to contain him pretty well when they played him this year, but that is the only game I saw him play.


Watt is the definition of overrated player. He is worst than JPP in racking up stats against bad teams. Very quiet against good to excellent offensive lines.
Based  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:19 pm : link
on throwing Prince in a tub? Making a guarantee? You give me specifics as to why he is what you say he is, a problem> Because he is negotiating for his future? Because he did not live up to that 1 year? Other than your disappointment in him, what has he done???
Fuck you Go Terps  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:20 pm : link
asshole
Whopdee dam doo  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:21 pm : link
I'm a soccer fan and have heard athletes speak English with a million accents. I'm also a first generation American with people in my family that speak with an accent. I could give a shit about his accent.
RE: RE:  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 3:21 pm : link
In comment 12358403 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12358328 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


how sacks come."

Really? That's an insult to the truly great players past and present. Great players do it in big spots against top teams and make the players around them better. LT, Joe Greene, Deacon Jones, Reggie White.

I don't watch Watt enough to how he compares to some of the great players I mentioned, but if what you say is true about his sack stats being padded against garbage OLs, then I would hold him to the same standard as JPP. The Giants seemed to contain him pretty well when they played him this year, but that is the only game I saw him play.



Watt is the definition of overrated player. He is worst than JPP in racking up stats against bad teams. Very quiet against good to excellent offensive lines.


Thanks for the color Mason. I don't see him play much. And I am not using him as the measuring stick as others are.
His Act  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 3:22 pm : link
is being one of the best DL in the NFL. When hes healthy he's one of the best. And he plays hard too.

If he leaves, it will be extremely difficult to replace him.

There simply are not many players like him.
Yep  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:22 pm : link
.
RE: His Act  
2ndroundKO : 7/6/2015 3:23 pm : link
In comment 12358411 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
is being one of the best DL in the NFL. When hes healthy he's one of the best. And he plays hard too.

If he leaves, it will be extremely difficult to replace him.

There simply are not many players like him.


Yeah, I never question his effort. He plays all out. Run support is all about effort and he barely takes plays off.

His intelligence? Well...
.  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:23 pm : link
I'd say coming into camp fat, throwing a teammate in a tub, and nearly blowing your hand off all qualify as red flags, yeah.

Try to take the glasses off and be objective for once. Why WOULD we think he'd be a $15 million player in 2015 and (God forbid) beyond?
RE: Whopdee dam doo  
David in LA : 7/6/2015 3:24 pm : link
In comment 12358407 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I'm a soccer fan and have heard athletes speak English with a million accents. I'm also a first generation American with people in my family that speak with an accent. I could give a shit about his accent.


Go Terps is so unbearable on these threads. He couldn't wait to jump on JPP once this news came out.
And how many of you wanted to cut Strahan in July/Aug '07  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 3:24 pm : link
when he dared to skip training camp? You saw how that played out. Maybe we can get off our high horse, and hope for a 100% recovery from JPP because we're a better team w/ him starting at DE than Damontre at this point.

Now that may not be true in 12 months, but it surely is true now.
The only person he caused embarrassment to is himself.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 3:24 pm : link
This doesn't reflect on the Giants at all. Especially since they are now taking the correct path to handling this by already removing any long term offer they made to him.
this coming into camp fat  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 3:25 pm : link
stuff is such BS. He came in heavier but he really didn't come in fatter, the guy's belly was bigger in '11 than '12. Coughlin wanted him to be leaner but it wasn't like JPP was some fatass in '12 compared to '11.

Last year was the best shape JPP has been in as a pro by far. And a big reason for that is likely because his back was finally feeling good.
RE: Whopdee dam doo  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:25 pm : link
In comment 12358407 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I'm a soccer fan and have heard athletes speak English with a million accents. I'm also a first generation American with people in my family that speak with an accent. I could give a shit about his accent.


Hey if you want to imply that other people have a sinister ulterior motive you might first want to consider that you're the one bringing the motive up out of nowhere.
RE: The only person he caused embarrassment to is himself.  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
In comment 12358422 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
This doesn't reflect on the Giants at all. Especially since they are now taking the correct path to handling this by already removing any long term offer they made to him.


They removed an offer he wasn't going to accept anyways. It's like me turning down a date with Kate Upton.
Yep  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
this is on JPP to make it right
JPP  
stretch234 : 7/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
I am and have been a defender of his...

Was this stupid - absolutely

Do the Giants gain all the leverage - absolutely

Does JPP now have to really earn a long term contract - absolutely

However, this league shows that you do not move on from top level talent that is only 26 years old, with no off field legal issues. It is hard to find top level players at his position.

The Giants are now in a position of strength


Most likely not here past this year, though.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Whopdee dam doo  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
In comment 12358418 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12358407 Headhunter said:


Quote:


I'm a soccer fan and have heard athletes speak English with a million accents. I'm also a first generation American with people in my family that speak with an accent. I could give a shit about his accent.



Go Terps is so unbearable on these threads. He couldn't wait to jump on JPP once this news came out.


You're right. I haven't been warning against signing JPP for two years now. I'm just jumping in out off nowhere.
I swear, some people just pick players to grind their axe against.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2015 3:27 pm : link
.
RE: And how many of you wanted to cut Strahan in July/Aug '07  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 3:27 pm : link
In comment 12358420 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
when he dared to skip training camp? You saw how that played out. Maybe we can get off our high horse, and hope for a 100% recovery from JPP because we're a better team w/ him starting at DE than Damontre at this point.

Now that may not be true in 12 months, but it surely is true now.


Not a very reasonable comparison. A 15 yr vet future HOFer looking to save the wear and tear of camp is not remotely the same as a guy coming off his 1st contract with a slew of ?????
If the Giants can use this to lowball him  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:27 pm : link
more the power to them if he signs for less than he would have. Business is business
JPP is a moron  
Chris684 : 7/6/2015 3:27 pm : link
but I agree with the idea that there is quite an overreaction about this and other things about him.

Is he as bad a teammate as many like to point out? Doesnt sound like anyone on the team has ever had a problem with him, including Prince.

His back is certainly a concern, but he has been a top DE whenever he has been healthy, including a DPOY type season in 2011.

Half of you will be singing a different tune if JPP is back to being a difference maker this year, something that a top DE can be with or without nerve damage in his finger.

The Giants would be stupid not to pull the long term offer from the table now. In the meantime, I wouldnt be surprised to see JPP put up a big-time season. He is a football player not a rocket scientist.
RE: I swear, some people just pick players to grind their axe against.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 3:27 pm : link
In comment 12358433 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


And some people defend players no matter the dumb shit they do.
You called me a homer  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 3:28 pm : link
for taking another point of view. Should I pat you on the back ?
There is all kind of judgemental stupidity in here.  
SuperRonJohnson : 7/6/2015 3:29 pm : link
The kid had an accident with fireworks and many of you want to kick him to the curb calling him all kind of names. Did he kill someone? Did he beat a woman or a kid? Did he beat his dog? No. He did something dumb. He HAS been working out hard if you have been following his summer workout posts. Whoever never did anything dumb... you can throw the first stone!
RE: I swear, some people just pick players to grind their axe against.  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:29 pm : link
In comment 12358433 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


No axe to grind. Just a recognition that how they handle JPP is enormously important.

And I didn't put the firecracker in his hand.
RE: .  
David in LA : 7/6/2015 3:30 pm : link
In comment 12358416 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'd say coming into camp fat, throwing a teammate in a tub, and nearly blowing your hand off all qualify as red flags, yeah.

Try to take the glasses off and be objective for once. Why WOULD we think he'd be a $15 million player in 2015 and (God forbid) beyond?


He came into camp fat, partially due to his back injury. For some reason that gets completely brushed under the rug, so you can rant on about how much of a piece of shit JPP is. The ice tub shit? Oh my fucking god! You think he's the first person to do that in the locker room? I'm not saying character doesn't matter, and admit he has some growing up to do, but you have this unrealistic expectation in your head of what an athlete is supposed to look and behave like.
RE: RE: And how many of you wanted to cut Strahan in July/Aug '07  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 3:31 pm : link
In comment 12358434 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12358420 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


when he dared to skip training camp? You saw how that played out. Maybe we can get off our high horse, and hope for a 100% recovery from JPP because we're a better team w/ him starting at DE than Damontre at this point.

Now that may not be true in 12 months, but it surely is true now.



Not a very reasonable comparison. A 15 yr vet future HOFer looking to save the wear and tear of camp is not remotely the same as a guy coming off his 1st contract with a slew of ?????


I'm more comparing BBI's reaction to the two situations. Fact is, if a player does anything that doesn't include watching film, working out, or becoming a better player, he is immediately at risk for being a fool or a media-centered prima donna. Forget that he's likely the best player on a new defense. Forget that he's nearly impossible to replace in the short term at this late date. Release the fricking dummy!
they probably pulled the long term offer  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 7/6/2015 3:31 pm : link
As a temporary measure until they are certain about his health. No point guaranteeing $30 million until the health issue is resolved. The worst case for the Giants would have been him signing the contract, and JPP being able to play, but at a greatly reduced ability level. Then they could have still cut him, but the guaranteed money would have counted against the salary cap.

I don't think this really means much in the long term, unless he is actually severely and permanently injured.
Still in the hospital according to the latest ESPN NY Radio update.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 3:31 pm : link
.
David in LA  
capone : 7/6/2015 3:31 pm : link
Luke 6:37 ...Judge not and ye shall not be judged
RE: RE: .  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12358443 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12358416 Go Terps said:


Quote:


I'd say coming into camp fat, throwing a teammate in a tub, and nearly blowing your hand off all qualify as red flags, yeah.

Try to take the glasses off and be objective for once. Why WOULD we think he'd be a $15 million player in 2015 and (God forbid) beyond?



He came into camp fat, partially due to his back injury. For some reason that gets completely brushed under the rug, so you can rant on about how much of a piece of shit JPP is. The ice tub shit? Oh my fucking god! You think he's the first person to do that in the locker room? I'm not saying character doesn't matter, and admit he has some growing up to do, but you have this unrealistic expectation in your head of what an athlete is supposed to look and behave like.


You're missing something very basic. My message on this entire thread hasn't been about JPP. He is what he is.

It's about the Giants and how they handle it. If JPP is on the team in 2015 and beyond my criticism will be of them. If they want to roll the dice with a contract to a fool that's on them. Guess they wouldn't have learned their lesson.
I'd say that if  
fkap : 7/6/2015 3:34 pm : link
the Giants thought he had consistent commitment to excellence, he'd be a long term Giant right now. apparently, they offered 60 mil (devil always in the details/structure, so we don't really know if it's a good 60 mil or a fluffy one), so they obviously think he's a pretty good one.

the ice tub and the events leading to the hand injury are much to do about nothing. hijinks amongst young athletes - who'd a thunk?

the overweight, and apparently wanting to let nature take its course before surgery (don't blame him for that as a person, but we're talking what's best for the team), and the Giants willing to sink 15 mil and then ANOTHER huge chunk next year if he produced, are red flags
Who's more butthurt about the ice tub?  
David in LA : 7/6/2015 3:34 pm : link
Prince or Go Terps? Quick poll here.
For what it's worth here  
JonC : 7/6/2015 3:37 pm : link
Terps made the same points on Shockey and Plax and faced the same arguments. He was right about them.

I wouldn't say JPP is quite the knucklehead those others two were, but Terps certainly isn't a dummy at reading tea leaves.

bringing up the ice tub incident  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 3:39 pm : link
as if it's a huge knock on JPP is a joke. An absolute joke.
PetesHereNow  
fkap : 7/6/2015 3:40 pm : link
uh, it's more like you rescinding your offer of a date to Kate because she wasn't going to accept.



The only reason anyone turns down Kate if she's willing is if they're in a committed relationship, and even then half the men would still go on a date with her.
butthurt?  
capone : 7/6/2015 3:45 pm : link
wow David in La, if anyone else used that term you would crying "homophobic bigot"
Terps you were right about Plax and Shockey...  
Chris684 : 7/6/2015 3:49 pm : link
even if they are apples to orange comparisons.

It's easy for you to sit here and say a "fool" shouldnt be on the roster, you're not in the billion dollar industry of trying to win football games.

You say that the defense has been mediocre to below average with him as the centerpiece, but gloss over the fact that he had as much to do with 2011 as anyone outside of Eli Manning.

No one is going to mistake JPP for an engineer any time soon, but where is the pattern of behavior for JPP, as there was for Shockey and Plax? He most likely just cost himself millions of dollars and he'll have to live with that, but let's not overstate what has been an otherwise peaceful and harmless existence here.

There is no reason to think long term right now with JPP, but if he can still be effective in 2015, what has this really changed?
RE: Tough standards?  
Britt in VA : 7/6/2015 3:50 pm : link
In comment 12358241 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
You bet your ass, these are investments, not guys rotation tires at Jiffy Lube. If you are paid millions of dollars by a flagship franchise of the most profitable league in this country you better believe you're held to a higher standard than Joe Drywall.

JPP came on like gangbusters, then after the SB he goes and gets too heavy, play suffers and he incurs a herniated disk. He comes back from the disc and plays like garbage, then gets injured again and does nothing. He finally seems to be semi-fit and takes half of 2014 to get into form. Toward the end of the year he starts sounding non committal about his future, doesn't really seem to want to stay long term, doesn't sign his tender, doesn't join his teammates for OTAs or mini camp and now this. This team "leader" who took the torch from Justin Tuck, used it to burn off his hand after he tossed a young CB into an ice tub to show off his leadership.

He's an idiot, he's proven it over and over again and this at a time when he's supposed to be preparing for a contract year playing at an insane $14.8 million cap number. Gee I"m so sorry for holding someone accountable who will make that much fucking money taking a job we can only dream of being capable of holding. I had more sense not to blow my hand off when I was 10, and he's a highly paid, highly visible 26 year old NFL veteran with a family and a super bowl ring and he STILL does something this stupid. All while NOT under contract and hoping to have a pay day.

If you guys are OK with that, fine, but to suggest that no one with a rooting interest in this team is allowed to be perturbed by this is just being self serving and holier than thou. I love the crowd that sits in judgement of opinions and judges ONLY that and deems themselves above the fray or terribly level headed and not prone to caring. I'm sorry, I care, I want my team to win and I want my players to be people I can be proud of and when they do idiotic things it perturbs me. Wasting opportunities makes me sick, in every walk of life and this is no different to me.


This sums my feelings up, perfectly. Well said.
RE: Terps you were right about Plax and Shockey...  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12358494 Chris684 said:
Quote:
even if they are apples to orange comparisons.

It's easy for you to sit here and say a "fool" shouldnt be on the roster, you're not in the billion dollar industry of trying to win football games.

You say that the defense has been mediocre to below average with him as the centerpiece, but gloss over the fact that he had as much to do with 2011 as anyone outside of Eli Manning.

No one is going to mistake JPP for an engineer any time soon, but where is the pattern of behavior for JPP, as there was for Shockey and Plax? He most likely just cost himself millions of dollars and he'll have to live with that, but let's not overstate what has been an otherwise peaceful and harmless existence here.

There is no reason to think long term right now with JPP, but if he can still be effective in 2015, what has this really changed?


The basic point about 2015 is he isn't worth the money that comes with the tag. No way.
RE: PetesHereNow  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12358472 fkap said:
Quote:
uh, it's more like you rescinding your offer of a date to Kate because she wasn't going to accept.



The only reason anyone turns down Kate if she's willing is if they're in a committed relationship, and even then half the men would still go on a date with her.


True enough, but I guess in my book, it's much ado about nothing. I'm still hoping JPP recovers fully, has a great year for the Giants, and we win another Super Bowl. Just releasing him now outright puts us further away from that as the ultimate goal, I think. It's not like we can go pull another 12-15 sack DE off the vine. At least not 2 months before the season.
RE: RE: Terps you were right about Plax and Shockey...  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 3:57 pm : link
In comment 12358501 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 12358494 Chris684 said:


Quote:


even if they are apples to orange comparisons.

It's easy for you to sit here and say a "fool" shouldnt be on the roster, you're not in the billion dollar industry of trying to win football games.

You say that the defense has been mediocre to below average with him as the centerpiece, but gloss over the fact that he had as much to do with 2011 as anyone outside of Eli Manning.

No one is going to mistake JPP for an engineer any time soon, but where is the pattern of behavior for JPP, as there was for Shockey and Plax? He most likely just cost himself millions of dollars and he'll have to live with that, but let's not overstate what has been an otherwise peaceful and harmless existence here.

There is no reason to think long term right now with JPP, but if he can still be effective in 2015, what has this really changed?



The basic point about 2015 is he isn't worth the money that comes with the tag. No way.


Even if he isn't worth the money that comes with the tag, how do we spend those resources at this date? If he did this in February or March, you'd have some recourse in drafting a high pick at DE or going harder after a FA DE.
But, now, does it really matter?

Our best course of action is to hope for a full recovery and he has a great year for us. Then, you go from there when talking about a longterm contract.
This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
Britt in VA : 7/6/2015 3:58 pm : link
was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.
RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.


Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.
RE: RE: RE: Terps you were right about Plax and Shockey...  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12358520 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 12358501 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 12358494 Chris684 said:


Quote:


even if they are apples to orange comparisons.

It's easy for you to sit here and say a "fool" shouldnt be on the roster, you're not in the billion dollar industry of trying to win football games.

You say that the defense has been mediocre to below average with him as the centerpiece, but gloss over the fact that he had as much to do with 2011 as anyone outside of Eli Manning.

No one is going to mistake JPP for an engineer any time soon, but where is the pattern of behavior for JPP, as there was for Shockey and Plax? He most likely just cost himself millions of dollars and he'll have to live with that, but let's not overstate what has been an otherwise peaceful and harmless existence here.

There is no reason to think long term right now with JPP, but if he can still be effective in 2015, what has this really changed?



The basic point about 2015 is he isn't worth the money that comes with the tag. No way.



Even if he isn't worth the money that comes with the tag, how do we spend those resources at this date? If he did this in February or March, you'd have some recourse in drafting a high pick at DE or going harder after a FA DE.
But, now, does it really matter?

Our best course of action is to hope for a full recovery and he has a great year for us. Then, you go from there when talking about a longterm contract.


This is a fair point, and a big criticism I have of the front office and why they shouldn't have franchised him.

Of course you hope he has a big year, but I think the greater likelihood is that he has a poor year and we are better served playing another player in his place. I see no reason to trust him to be motivated. I felt that way before this happened, and now I only feel safer in that belief.
factually based on what?  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:05 pm : link
Your feeling?
Here  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/6/2015 4:06 pm : link
is the summary from a variety of news sources...
Giants Withdraw $60 Million Contract Offer to Jason Pierre-Paul - ( New Window )
RE: RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
Britt in VA : 7/6/2015 4:07 pm : link
In comment 12358537 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.



Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.


Well, that was 30 years ago, times have changed.
RE: RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:07 pm : link
In comment 12358537 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.



Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.


Just because there have been instances where athletes have done these things before without a major catastrophe taking place doesn't mean they should continue to do it, especially when they aren't even under contract..
I agree with Terps and Joey in VA. And I felt the same about Shockey  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 4:07 pm : link
and Burress. Shockey especially was an asshole.

I also think, and have said many times, that the FT made sense for a couple of reasons. 1) that JPP still had to prove himself as being worthy of a big, cap busting deal and 2) they need him for at least this year because Moore is still unproven and Odi is a rookie.
Giving the Franchise Tag  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:09 pm : link
to the 2nd best all around DE in the NFL is a hard decision?
Why would anyone expect him to have a big year?  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2015 4:09 pm : link
He's had one big year. Since then, his performance has been wildly uneven. Some very good games, a lot of invisible games.
Giants offered him $12M per  
JonC : 7/6/2015 4:11 pm : link
that suggests clearly his actual value in their eyes, which does make the franchise tag a tough swallow.

OK  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:12 pm : link
who is better than JPP other than Watt? Would you give say the 5th best all around DE if you had a FT to use?
RE: Why would anyone expect him to have a big year?  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 4:12 pm : link
In comment 12358562 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He's had one big year. Since then, his performance has been wildly uneven. Some very good games, a lot of invisible games.


agree
I keep asking the same question  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 4:13 pm : link
Its Watt and Suh as the all timers in the NFL right now.

After that who is better than JPP on the DL? There aren't many.
I agree with HH, the glass is half full,  
mikeygiants : 7/6/2015 4:13 pm : link
this could be a blessing in disguise. Rescind the long term offer, Coughlin/Reese slap him on the wrist (the unburned portions) a little, let the media embarrassment sink in, get a clean bill of health, and then come back at him with a little less.
I've posted it a hundred time  
JonC : 7/6/2015 4:13 pm : link
I'm ok with $12M per for JPP, the onus is on him to prove he's worth $15M per (elite dollars, the fact there's only one really elite DE in the game doesn't mean #2 is worth elite dollars).
JPP  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 4:14 pm : link
doesn't have invisible games. This is only true to people that expect him to have 15 sacks consistently.

He is one of the best 2 way DL players in the league and he shows up every week.
Bingo KWALL....  
Chris684 : 7/6/2015 4:15 pm : link
...
JPP was very good in '12 and '14  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 4:17 pm : link
he was bad in '13 when his back completely messed him up.

'11: Great
'12: Very Good
'13: Bad because of his back
'14: Very Good

He's not a HOF type of talent who is constantly dominating, but when healthy this guy has always been an impact player. Anyone who watched him play last year and came to the conclusion that he isn't a very good DE has absurd standards for DE play.
No one expects JPP to have 15 sacks, let alone every week.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:18 pm : link
Stop with the nonsense. Plenty of games go by where he is next to invisible, or gets "hurt."
RE: Everybody knows fireworks are illegal, and everybody  
River Mike : 7/6/2015 4:18 pm : link
In comment 12358331 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
this weekend watched people set off illegal fireworks on their street, or did it themselves.

Suddenly we're gonna moralize fireworks because it's convenient to the discussion?


This thread continues to amaze me with how posters so consistently miss the point. Moralizing is not part of it, and whether or not we all did it is totally irrelevant. Looking at a potential $15million dollar payday plus the prospect of much more while you are presently not under contract at all means your #1 priority is to stay healthy, because that's the only thing you need to do to get that contract. THAT is what makes this an extremely dumb, immature and irresponsible thing to do.
If JPP doesnt play  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:18 pm : link
who as a DC do you worry about? No one on that D, no one
Almost 48 hours  
rdt288 : 7/6/2015 4:19 pm : link
Still in hospital and no word= doesn't bode well
RE: Almost 48 hours  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/6/2015 4:21 pm : link
In comment 12358597 rdt288 said:
Quote:
Still in hospital and no word= doesn't bode well


There is some word...see the update I posted (link above).
rdt288  
mikeygiants : 7/6/2015 4:22 pm : link
he's also getting his tonsils out. He figured why not while he was there.
RE: If JPP doesnt play  
BrettNYG10 : 7/6/2015 4:22 pm : link
In comment 12358596 Headhunter said:
Quote:
who as a DC do you worry about? No one on that D, no one


The team's CB's are pretty good, IMO. Hankins is quite good as well. I see your point, though.
Yeah we have some nice players  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:24 pm : link
Hankins Kennard, DRC, Prince, hopefully Collins. Not one of those guys could go off and change a game on his own, I've seen JPP do it
2012  
Chris684 : 7/6/2015 4:24 pm : link
was all about his back (which he played through) and pretty damn well by the way. Instead you get the overweight narrative.

2013, half the season was lost to the surgery they tried to avoid. As soon as he declared himself healthy, he was back to showing up everywhere on the field, particularly in the Raider game before hurting his shoulder.

2014, an overall very good season. Same 2-way presence, a little uneven with pass rush.

Injury prone, (particularly his back) seems to be the biggest logical concern with JPP. He is also pretty dumb, see blowing fireworks off in his hand. The other stuff sounds like alot of bullsh*t to be honest.

If there were no cap we probably don't have this thread. The issue  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 4:25 pm : link
with him for the Giants is maturity/work ethic. How does he behave once he gets the big long-term deal? Will he be as committed?
Who the opponent will fear  
JonC : 7/6/2015 4:25 pm : link
is secondary, separate and primary is making sound financial decisions for the benefit of the franchise, and not allowing one knucklehead to sink the ship. I don't put winning above all else.

RE: 2012  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/6/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12358620 Chris684 said:
Quote:
was all about his back (which he played through) and pretty damn well by the way. Instead you get the overweight narrative.

2013, half the season was lost to the surgery they tried to avoid. As soon as he declared himself healthy, he was back to showing up everywhere on the field, particularly in the Raider game before hurting his shoulder.

2014, an overall very good season. Same 2-way presence, a little uneven with pass rush.

Injury prone, (particularly his back) seems to be the biggest logical concern with JPP. He is also pretty dumb, see blowing fireworks off in his hand. The other stuff sounds like alot of bullsh*t to be honest.


The truth.
RE: If there were no cap we probably don't have this thread. The issue  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12358623 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
with him for the Giants is maturity/work ethic. How does he behave once he gets the big long-term deal? Will he be as committed?


Yep. Plus, he's no Strahan in terms of talent, either. He's a good and at times very good player.
RE: RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
River Mike : 7/6/2015 4:28 pm : link
In comment 12358537 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.



Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.


Not sure what your point is. So it was ok for those other guys to do stupid things because there were no disasters? Or is it that there's nothing wrong with JPP doing stupid things because other guys did stupid things
The tub incident has relevance  
wigs in nyc : 7/6/2015 4:29 pm : link
As it's indicative to the player's maturity, decision making, and treatment of others.

I'm in the camp that feels there's a spot here for him long-term at the right price, but have no illusions as to the development of his character.
RE: Who the opponent will fear  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 4:30 pm : link
In comment 12358626 JonC said:
Quote:
is secondary, separate and primary is making sound financial decisions for the benefit of the franchise, and not allowing one knucklehead to sink the ship. I don't put winning above all else.


Agree. Otherwise you end up with Greg Hardy and who wants that.
The ice tub?  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:31 pm : link
how many years ago was it? 3? You bring that up to indicate his maturity level today? Holy shit
RE: RE: If there were no cap we probably don't have this thread. The issue  
Victor in CT : 7/6/2015 4:32 pm : link
In comment 12358631 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 12358623 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


with him for the Giants is maturity/work ethic. How does he behave once he gets the big long-term deal? Will he be as committed?



Yep. Plus, he's no Strahan in terms of talent, either. He's a good and at times very good player.


Agree.
RE: RE: Everybody knows fireworks are illegal, and everybody  
shabu : 7/6/2015 4:32 pm : link
In comment 12358595 River Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 12358331 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


this weekend watched people set off illegal fireworks on their street, or did it themselves.

Suddenly we're gonna moralize fireworks because it's convenient to the discussion?




This thread continues to amaze me with how posters so consistently miss the point. Moralizing is not part of it, and whether or not we all did it is totally irrelevant. Looking at a potential $15million dollar payday plus the prospect of much more while you are presently not under contract at all means your #1 priority is to stay healthy, because that's the only thing you need to do to get that contract. THAT is what makes this an extremely dumb, immature and irresponsible thing to do.


Can you imagine John Mara and TC's reaction? I think JPP is done as a giant frankly.
Dave  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 4:33 pm : link
You haven't been around in a while?

A few days ago, we had people ripping JPP for not producing "15 sacks consistently". Posted here. And it's something that has been seen often on BBI about JPP and the ridiculous expectations of uninformed fans.

He makes a big impact every game even if it doesn't come up in the stat sheet.

The only issues came when he had the bad back. When he's 100% he's out there kicking ass against the best OL in the league.



RE: The ice tub?  
wigs in nyc : 7/6/2015 4:34 pm : link
In comment 12358653 Headhunter said:
Quote:
how many years ago was it? 3? You bring that up to indicate his maturity level today? Holy shit


It occurred during his employment to this team. You think that should offer absolutely indication to the player? 0%? Would a played like Eli ever have done that? Does that not mean something.

I said I'd still like him here longterm, hardly an overly damning indictment on my part.
RE: RE: RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 4:35 pm : link
In comment 12358551 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 12358537 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.



Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.



Just because there have been instances where athletes have done these things before without a major catastrophe taking place doesn't mean they should continue to do it, especially when they aren't even under contract..


which brings me back to my original point that some people want football robots who only work out and study film. And while that would be ideal, it's not realistic.
Definition of "good and at times very good"  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 4:35 pm : link
= one of the top 10 two way DL in the NFL.
Headhunter, go terps is correct. I have seen go terps posts in the pa  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 4:35 pm : link
Warning to sign jpp. I normally agree with go terps assessments
K  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:36 pm : link
He's a good, sometimes very good player. Nothing wrong with that.
did the ice  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:36 pm : link
tub have a wired radio in it and did Prince get electrocuted?
Rich  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:38 pm : link
I knew you would
For someone who has such a huge impact on games  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:38 pm : link
where it doesn't show on the stat sheet, it sure hasn't shown with the defense as awhole either in recent years.
RE: RE: RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 4:39 pm : link
In comment 12358634 River Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 12358537 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.



Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.



Not sure what your point is. So it was ok for those other guys to do stupid things because there were no disasters? Or is it that there's nothing wrong with JPP doing stupid things because other guys did stupid things


my point is while it'd be nice to have football robots who eat, sleep, and dream football, it's not realistic. It wasn't realistic in 1985 either but at least then, we didn't know any better.
That's underrating him  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 4:40 pm : link
I'd have a hard time finding 5 players on the DL I take over JPP right now. And the arrow is still pointing up for him.

He's not all-world like Watt and Suh, but he's at the top of the next group.

People around here knocked his season in 14 because the sacks came at the end. The real story was he was playing his ass off all year when facing guys like Smith in Dal, Williams in WAS, or any other top OL he gives them trouble consistently.
This situation is somewhat similar to Vince coleman  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 4:40 pm : link
Fiasco years back with mets
Welp  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:41 pm : link
Thankfully nowhere near everyone feels that way and the Giants are being smart about this. Whew.
RE: did the ice  
wigs in nyc : 7/6/2015 4:42 pm : link
In comment 12358673 Headhunter said:
Quote:
tub have a wired radio in it and did Prince get electrocuted?


You're 100% right that we're all our projecting our own experience and viewpoint onto the incident- none of us were there, and we're left to our own to make of it what we will.

To me its about the treatment of Prince (he of the weirdo, meek, naive personality) which speaks to the nature of the incident. How do you think JPP trying to toss 'Trel in an ice bath would've gone?
Weakest argument against JPP  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 4:46 pm : link
is the team defensive stats.

You can do better because rolling out that line means nothing.
Jpp brain was too slow to process the need to throw the firework  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 4:47 pm : link
Before the fuse burned up. does this indicate he cannot think fast enough to shed a block? Just saying this incident could be a Canary in coal mine for giants mgmt to decide to give him a contract offer.
Dave not for anything  
Chris684 : 7/6/2015 4:47 pm : link
but you make JPP sound like a second rate bum.

Also, the Giants tagged on him so clearly they disagree with your assessment of a good but not great player.
I dont have a clue  
Headhunter : 7/6/2015 4:48 pm : link
what goes on in the locker room. I didnt know that Michael Strahan knocked out Chris Malaluengua (g whatever his name was) until I read it in Strahan's book after he retired
RE: Jpp brain was too slow to process the need to throw the firework  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 4:49 pm : link
In comment 12358721 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
Before the fuse burned up. does this indicate he cannot think fast enough to shed a block? Just saying this incident could be a Canary in coal mine for giants mgmt to decide to give him a contract offer.


Is this necessary?
RE: Weakest argument against JPP  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:49 pm : link
In comment 12358714 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
is the team defensive stats.

You can do better because rolling out that line means nothing.


As does the "there's no one else I'd rather outside of Suh and Watts" line.
RE: Dave not for anything  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 4:50 pm : link
In comment 12358722 Chris684 said:
Quote:
but you make JPP sound like a second rate bum.

Also, the Giants tagged on him so clearly they disagree with your assessment of a good but not great player.


Yeah. A sometimes very good player is a second rate bum. Great.
Pete, I was making an observation to a player's stupid  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 5:00 pm : link
decision to hold a lit firework in his hands when he doesn't even have a contract to play with.
RE: JPP  
kinard : 7/6/2015 5:10 pm : link
In comment 12358585 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
doesn't have invisible games. This is only true to people that expect him to have 15 sacks consistently.

He is one of the best 2 way DL players in the league and he shows up every week.


The voice of reason....

Clearly the best player on our shitty-ass defense. Anyone who bases his value simply on the # of sacks, doesn't watch these games close enough. Yeah - tell me where they find someone who replaces his production - that's what I want to know?

If we had one or two other above average players on the front seven, Pierre-Paul would be a monster. Poor guy is double-teamed every snap and he still makes plays.

Knee-jerk reaction to the transgression is disturbing. Its not like he was smacking some chick or doing blow off her stomach. Stupid? Sure. Run him out of town? No way...

JPP is doubled on every snap?  
Giants2012 : 7/6/2015 5:12 pm : link
?
Kwall  
stretch234 : 7/6/2015 5:12 pm : link
I also defend him all the time. People look at nothing but sacks. The guy was an un-blockable player against Hou, Atl, Was and had zero sacks. He directly effected the outcome.

SF with 2 All Pro OL on his side said they were not even going to try running at him. They also rolled the pass protection to the right away from him.

The Giants in essence had 1/2 the field to defend on the DL because of him - everything went the other way and he still was a very disruptive player.

The Giants are not a better team w/o him
RE: JPP is doubled on every snap?  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/6/2015 5:13 pm : link
In comment 12358791 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
?


Every single snap. Didn't you know?
cuz baby you're a  
SHO'NUFF : 7/6/2015 5:24 pm : link
FIREWORK!
come and show 'em  
SHO'NUFF : 7/6/2015 5:25 pm : link
what you're worth!
I don't get the arguments..  
grizz299 : 7/6/2015 5:25 pm : link
other than a need to be contrarians.
Yes, he's superb player and I'd go so far as to disagree with the one poster....I think at his best he's better than Strahan.

And yes, this is an act of incredible stupidity and to compare it to speeding just misses the point. Shoot off fireworks but take precautions. We all speed, you can speed your whole life and not have an accident. You can not shoot off fireworks with out precautions and not have an accident.

And it's even dumber when you have 60 million dollars sitting on the table in a sport where giving yourself a hand doesn't mean self-applause.
JPP isn't Strahan. Not even close.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 7/6/2015 5:30 pm : link
But he's a damn good player.
He's a damn good player when he gives a full effort  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 7/6/2015 5:30 pm : link
and isn't on the sidelines.
RE: this coming into camp fat  
Watson : 7/6/2015 5:38 pm : link
In comment 12358426 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
stuff is such BS. He came in heavier but he really didn't come in fatter, the guy's belly was bigger in '11 than '12. Coughlin wanted him to be leaner but it wasn't like JPP was some fatass in '12 compared to '11.

Last year was the best shape JPP has been in as a pro by far. And a big reason for that is likely because his back was finally feeling good.


Would agree. Further unless JPP is using photo shop, he looks really fit. Looks like in the best shape; hardly looks like he has been lazy.
RE: Pete, I was making an observation to a player's stupid  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 5:41 pm : link
In comment 12358764 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
decision to hold a lit firework in his hands when he doesn't even have a contract to play with.



I highly doubt it was because he was too stupid to let the thing go. Perhaps, the firework malfunctioned in some way, shape, or form. But, even an idiot like me knows "hot, no good, burn, let go."

To try to extrapolate that into "he's not quick enough to shed a block" on the football field, it's a little much.
There goes the season  
Steve in South Jersey : 7/6/2015 5:52 pm : link
the DL pass rush is going to suck.
I'm not convinced this is so terrible for the 2015 season  
Go Terps : 7/6/2015 5:57 pm : link
The game is changing, and I'm not sure a premium DE (if that's what JPP consistently is) has the impact it once did.
Pete, I am not a Neurologist, but maybe JPP didn't have enough  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/6/2015 5:59 pm : link
synapse activity interacting quick enough with the serotonin in his brain to allow for a quick release of the firework. This end result could be an indication that his synapse/Seratonin interaction has a slow reaction.. then I would make the connection he has trouble making a decision on shedding blocks.
RE: Pete, I am not a Neurologist, but maybe JPP didn't have enough  
Big Blue '56 : 7/6/2015 6:01 pm : link
In comment 12358861 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
synapse activity interacting quick enough with the serotonin in his brain to allow for a quick release of the firework. This end result could be an indication that his synapse/Seratonin interaction has a slow reaction.. then I would make the connection he has trouble making a decision on shedding blocks.


My favorite pre-season post..:)
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the same thing as when Roethlisberger...  
River Mike : 7/6/2015 6:28 pm : link
In comment 12358684 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 12358634 River Mike said:


Quote:


In comment 12358537 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


In comment 12358526 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


was riding his motorcycle around Pittsburgh without a helmet (or raping chicks for that matter), or when Winslow Jr. decided to buy a crotch rocket for the first time, and try to do a wheelie on it the first time he rode it. Pittsburgh and Cleveland fans had a right to be pissed, and so did their respective teams who were paying those guys.

Yeah, they are dumb kids, but they are millionaires that hold the fate of a billion dollar team in their hands, and they need to be accountable for that fact. If they aren't mature enough to do it themselves, then they need handlers to do it.

This isn't some Joe Schmoe like the kid that blew his head off with the mortar this weekend. If your body is what pays the bills, then you protect your investment by not doing stupid shit. Period.



Yeah, but we only hear about the irresponsible behavior when something goes wrong. How many players drive their new cars at speeds way over the limit every day? How many players party in the clubs until the wee hours of the morning in the offseason? How many things do we not hear about? In his book, LT talks about the time he wrapped his car around a tree on the Turnpike in the early 80s. Did we hear about it? Nope. Didn't have 24 hr Twitter or social media to tell us.



Not sure what your point is. So it was ok for those other guys to do stupid things because there were no disasters? Or is it that there's nothing wrong with JPP doing stupid things because other guys did stupid things



my point is while it'd be nice to have football robots who eat, sleep, and dream football, it's not realistic. It wasn't realistic in 1985 either but at least then, we didn't know any better.


Its not reasonable to expect that no one will ever cheat on a spouse, but that's no reason to not criticize them when they do. Its not realistic to expect that nobody will ever do something they shouldn't do. That's no reason to not be critical of them when they do it.

The point is not whether other people do it, they point is whether it shouldn't be done.
Fortunately the half wit  
Sec 103 : 7/6/2015 6:31 pm : link
didn't place the firework on his head like that other Darwin winner in RI...
The comment by Rich made this whole thread worth reading...  
okiegiant : 7/6/2015 6:32 pm : link
.
RE: I'm not convinced this is so terrible for the 2015 season  
Watson : 7/6/2015 7:03 pm : link
In comment 12358856 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The game is changing, and I'm not sure a premium DE (if that's what JPP consistently is) has the impact it once did.


Well if JPP doesn't play, will see your theory tested. Can't wait.
Re: Pete, I am not a Neurologist, but maybe JPP didn't have enough  
JohnF : 7/6/2015 7:29 pm : link
Quote:

synapse activity interacting quick enough with the serotonin in his brain to allow for a quick release of the firework. This end result could be an indication that his synapse/Seratonin interaction has a slow reaction.. then I would make the connection he has trouble making a decision on shedding blocks.

Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 5:59 pm


RE: Rich  
Johnny Boy : 7/6/2015 7:45 pm : link
In comment 12358677 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I knew you would



Can I get in on the grab ass going on here?
RE: Really nervous if they pull the tag and JPP becomes an UFA  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/6/2015 7:55 pm : link
In comment 12358110 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I definitely don't want to lose him a year early over this.

Are you really not considering the idea that we may have lost him a year early already? And really, the guy had a U-Haul van full of fireworks; this is beyond poor judgment, especially considering his contract status - this is plain old dumb.
If the contract was for $60M  
mrvax : 7/6/2015 7:59 pm : link
for 4 years and he didn't sign it, I'm shocked. WTH was he expecting? 60/4 was the very max I could see anyone offering.

Let him go now. Save the cash for next year.
Mark Cannizzaro - July 6, 2015 | 2:50pm  
sphinx : 7/6/2015 8:17 pm : link
The NFL Network on Monday reported the Giants rescinded a $60 million contract offer they had on the table for Pierre-Paul as a result of the fireworks incident. However, an NFL source told The Post the report was “100 percent false.’’

The source did confirm there is an offer on the table for Pierre-Paul, but that the team has not taken the offer away. That source, though, strongly indicated that Pierre-Paul’s option in 2015 will be to play for the $14.8 million “franchise tag’’ tender offer presented to him.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Pete, I was making an observation to a player's stupid  
Gman11 : 7/6/2015 8:17 pm : link
In comment 12358764 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
decision to hold a lit firework in his hands when he doesn't even have a contract to play with.

So, if he was under contract then it would have been OK. Is that it?

Quote:
Pete, I am not a Neurologist, but maybe JPP didn't have enough
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 5:59 pm : link : reply
synapse activity interacting quick enough with the serotonin in his brain to allow for a quick release of the firework. This end result could be an indication that his synapse/Seratonin interaction has a slow reaction.. then I would make the connection he has trouble making a decision on shedding blocks.


And, that my friends, is the post of the year.
RE: I'm not convinced this is so terrible for the 2015 season  
Emil : 7/6/2015 8:21 pm : link
In comment 12358856 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The game is changing, and I'm not sure a premium DE (if that's what JPP consistently is) has the impact it once did.


Interesting thought, and it's possible that the stats support your theory. I was amazed to see how few team sacks Seattle had. But there was also the Bills who just kept coming after you.

1. Seattle Seahawks – 267 yds per game: Sack leaders – Michael Bennett (7.0); Bruce Irvin (6.5): Team Sacks 37

2. Detroit Lions – 300.9 yds per game: Sack Leaders - Ndamukong Suh (8.5); Ezekiel Ansah (7.5): Team Sacks 42

3. Denver Broncos – 305.2 yds per game: Sack Leaders – Von Miller (14.0); DeMarcus Ware (10.0): Team Sacks 41

4. Buffalo Bills – 312.2 yds per game: Sack Leaders – Mario Williams (14.5); Marcell Dareus (10.0); Jerry Hughes (10.): Team Sacks 54

5. San Francisco 49ers – 321.4 yds per game: Sack Leaders – Ahmad Brooks (6.0); Aaron Lynch (6.0): Team Sacks 36

For the sake of comparison:

29. NY Giants – 375.8 yds per game: Sack Leaders – JPP (12.5); Jonathan Hankins (7.0): Team Sacks 47


RE: Pete, I am not a Neurologist, but maybe JPP didn't have enough  
Danny Kanell : 7/6/2015 8:29 pm : link
In comment 12358861 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
synapse activity interacting quick enough with the serotonin in his brain to allow for a quick release of the firework. This end result could be an indication that his synapse/Seratonin interaction has a slow reaction.. then I would make the connection he has trouble making a decision on shedding blocks.


Rich, great post.
serious question:  
jawebb20 : 7/6/2015 9:03 pm : link
will Tom Coughlin allow JPP to receive modern medical treatment for his hand?
Emil, All that points out is sacks numbers are overrated.  
KWALL2 : 7/6/2015 9:13 pm : link
What isn't overrated is a consistently disruptive DL player. Nothing has changed about that. It's still valued at a premium (and those teams listed at the top have plenty of them).

The top defensive teams have outstanding front 7 talent. Forget sack numbers. Are those guys lining up and kicking ass? They are!

JPP and Hankins are the only ass kickers we have on the DL. He's an elite DL player with plenty of upside. We lose him it's a big hit. It does give us money to make up for it. They may be able to do it.

SEA scored big with the signing of Bennett. We should have kept his brother at TE and signed him. But landing that type of DL talent at that number is rare.

People don't want to pay JPP but they think it will be easy to find a similar guy at 50-60% of his number. It isn't easy.
Well, now we know who  
Simms11 : 7/6/2015 9:22 pm : link
to give the BBI award to!
To be honest  
PetesHereNow : 7/6/2015 10:06 pm : link
What kind of message does it send if you're pulling the guy's offer while he is still in a hospital bed? I don't think the Giants are that kind of team. Yes, he did a stupid thing, but come on.

I'm with Terps  
Modus Operandi : 7/6/2015 10:53 pm : link
JPP is a moron for putting himself in that position and I sure as heck wouldnt invest that kind of money into a guy who doesn't use his head.

Besides, Terps has been right on virtually every topic I've seen him post one.
I haven't posted much in awhile but this event with JPP  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 7/7/2015 12:25 am : link
has my grey matter burning and I let the Kraken out... my synapse to serotonin level is humming along like an epileptic being used as an elephant vibrator.
RE: I haven't posted much in awhile but this event with JPP  
wigs in nyc : 7/7/2015 12:31 am : link
In comment 12359303 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
has my grey matter burning and I let the Kraken out... my synapse to serotonin level is humming along like an epileptic being used as an elephant vibrator.

At least there's some good to come out of all of this.
I still can't fathom that the guy cost himself millions  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/7/2015 12:56 am : link
to play with fireworks. LOL. Athletes today..wow. I can't stop laughing.
RE: I haven't posted much in awhile but this event with JPP  
Canton : 7/7/2015 4:57 am : link
In comment 12359303 Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 said:
Quote:
has my grey matter burning and I let the Kraken out... my synapse to serotonin level is humming along like an epileptic being used as an elephant vibrator.


You should have quit while you were ahead elephant man.
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